Author Topic: Javier Mascherano  (Read 401540 times)

Offline bigbear

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #400 on: October 16, 2007, 09:12:46 pm »
In terms of the qualities he has, he's the closest we have to Mascherano.  He's a decent tackler and he's got good distribution.  In a worst case scenario where Alonso and Mascherano are unavailable, I can't see anyone else who's got the composure to partner Gerrard.

Who else?  Maybe Torres but he's been difficult to bring him into play recently.  Mascherano has been consistently good, even during our recent rough patch.
Mascherano has hardly played. Arbeloa, Torres for me.

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #401 on: October 16, 2007, 09:14:43 pm »
Mascherano has hardly played. Arbeloa, Torres for me.

Arbeloa has really impressed me this season

Looks like a ready made spanish replacement for Steve Finnan
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Offline bigbear

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #402 on: October 16, 2007, 09:19:09 pm »
In terms of the qualities he has, he's the closest we have to Mascherano.  He's a decent tackler and he's got good distribution.  In a worst case scenario where Alonso and Mascherano are unavailable, I can't see anyone else who's got the composure to partner Gerrard.

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Offline labyrinth

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #403 on: October 16, 2007, 09:22:30 pm »
Arbeloa has really impressed me this season

Looks like a ready made spanish replacement for Steve Finnan

And Agger. When he struggle with metatarsal we start to concede from open play.
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Offline Alf

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #404 on: October 16, 2007, 10:10:26 pm »
Argentina vs Venezuela at 1:30am on Sly Sports for the insomniacs out there.

Offline Robbies5th

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #405 on: October 17, 2007, 12:29:11 am »
One of the few things I'll say I disagree with Rafa on is Masch.

Don't understand why he doesn't play him more. The boy oozes class
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Offline monster_masch

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #406 on: October 17, 2007, 08:35:35 am »
masch played the full 90 mins today morning for the argies in a 2:0 win over venezuela, messi and milito with the goals.

Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #407 on: October 17, 2007, 08:43:14 am »
masch played the full 90 mins today morning for the argies in a 2:0 win over venezuela, messi and milito with the goals.
Messi is on a completely different level atm.  Pleasing on the eye and now becoming very, very effective.  He seems to score in every single match.

Offline nayia2002

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #408 on: October 17, 2007, 09:31:58 am »
masch played the full 90 mins today morning for the argies in a 2:0 win over venezuela, messi and milito with the goals.
so he must be back at anfield by tomorrow morning right?!
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Offline Jorgen

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #409 on: October 17, 2007, 10:06:29 am »
masch played the full 90 mins today morning for the argies in a 2:0 win over venezuela, messi and milito with the goals.

Too bad, then he'll not play Saturday because he is tired...

Mach is a great player! Should play every possible game. He only need to be less aggressive at times, he concedes too many silly freekicks. His silly diving should also be taken out and we have a top, top player.

Offline mjjason

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #410 on: October 21, 2007, 09:47:28 pm »
Some bit of good news:

Masch Wants Reds Stay
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2816472,00.html

Offline Live4pool

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #411 on: October 23, 2007, 01:59:24 pm »
interview with Javier from the official site


Well Javier, you played in your first Merseyside derby on Saturday – how was it?
 
I've been fortunate to experience a few good derbies in my career: Argentina v Brazil; Corinthians v Palmeiras; Boca v River. But the fact these two teams are here in the same city makes it all the more massive. It's such an occasion, so the Merseyside derby is right up there.
 
How much did that win mean to the players?
 
A victory in a derby is always good for team spirit and morale. It means you go into the next challenge on a high. Everyone is always happy when you win these games, so it's worth more than three points. It gives us a boost going into Wednesday night, which is a crucial game, and hopefully we can get the points we need.
 
Did the celebrations we saw at the final whistle continue in the dressing room and into the evening?
 
Yes, sure. We did celebrate and it did carry on into the dressing room. When you are at Liverpool you are accustomed to winning big games, like Barcelona and Chelsea last year, and afterwards you have to celebrate. But you soon have to concentrate and focus on the next game ahead, and that's what we're doing.
 
What was going through your mind when Dirk Kuyt stepped up to take that late penalty?
 
I was just hoping and praying he'd put it away. It's not easy knowing everyone is dependent on what you are about to do. He showed so much character – all I could do was hope it went in.
 
Next up is the Champions League – you really have to improve on the previous two performances, don't you?
 
From now on every game is a final – at least in the group stages. We have to get three points, we have no other option. With the defeat to Marseille we've made things difficult for ourselves, but a win on Wednesday would go a long way to putting our destiny back in our own hands. We'll certainly be going into the game with a lot of desire and a lot of will to win.
 
Is there perhaps so much attention on your Premier League challenge that your European form is suffering?
 
No. I think that we've got a big enough squad. We have pretty much two players battling for every position, so we're able to battle on all fronts. Things didn't turn out well against Marseille but we can start to turn that round with three points in Istanbul.
 
If I asked you to pick between winning the Premier League and winning the Champions League, which would you go for?
 
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Will anything other than a win do in Beşiktaş?
 
Absolutely not. We are already playing catch-up in the Champions League because we haven't got our first win, so that's what we need to do.
 
Considering you need the points, will you go there looking to attack from the first minute?
 
I think the manager will have a plan and we might not be going all out attack, but what we certainly will be doing is going there to bring those three points back home.
 
It's going to be a very hostile atmosphere over there – will that bother you and your teammates?
 
It's always great to have the fans behind you but at the end it's just 11 players against 11. What's going on around the pitch shouldn't have too much of an influence. You just have to get on with it.
 
Liverpool have never played Beşiktaş but they have a few Argentineans in their side – will you be giving Rafa the lowdown on those?
 
Yes, I am familiar with one or two of their Argentinean players and Brazilians too. Ricardinho is one and also Higuain. I have played with some of these guys, and we will look at how we can keep them quiet while at the same time concentrating on our own performance.
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Offline kermit^

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #412 on: October 25, 2007, 06:21:54 am »
Maybe I'm the only one here but yesterday was the worst I've seen Masch playing. Failed to win the ball and giving away cheap possesion. Almost as bad as Momo played for the last couple of matches.

Hope this will be the first and last time I see Masch playing as bad as this.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 09:34:02 am by kermit^ »
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Offline MFletcher

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #413 on: October 25, 2007, 09:10:07 am »
Problem is, he was away in South America a week and a half go and flew back to go straight into a physically demanding Merseyside Derby. Then he flew to Turkey and started again in a must win game. That travelling will have knackered him.

The problem is that in such games, we need a holding midfielder. With Alonso out, Masch had to play regardless of fatigue and it finally started to show last night.
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Offline Ron

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #414 on: October 25, 2007, 09:23:53 am »
Problem is, he was away in South America a week and a half go and flew back to go straight into a physically demanding Merseyside Derby. Then he flew to Turkey and started again in a must win game. That travelling will have knackered him.

The problem is that in such games, we need a holding midfielder. With Alonso out, Masch had to play regardless of fatigue and it finally started to show last night.
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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #415 on: October 25, 2007, 09:31:17 am »
When Mascherano's name was spoken as he was getting subbed, I assumed for a second the commentator had made a mistake.  Surely he's not on the pitch was my initial thought.  I'd not heard his name or saw him do anything for ages.  He was equally anonymous at the pit on Saturday.  This song we've got about the best midfield in the world due to having Mascherano and Sissoko; it's a right load of old bollocks isn't it? 
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Offline MFletcher

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #416 on: October 25, 2007, 09:38:10 am »
I sometimes have to work a whole week as a painter. And I'm older than them too. Fatigue, come on !

A 12 hour flight to South America, an internal flight in South America, an internal flight back to Argentina and a 12 hour flight to the UK again. I suspect he flew into London as well, meaning either a four hour drive to Merseyside or another plane. He played two full matches in South America as well. Then he went straight into the Merseyside Derby and played for 90 minutes. Then he got on another plane and flew for four-six hours to Turkey, before playing another 75 minutes.

Regardless of what anyone says, that schedule would knacker you. His body clock is probably all over the place as well, but given our options, he had to play in both games.
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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #417 on: October 25, 2007, 09:48:31 am »
Then he went straight into the Merseyside Derby and played for 90 minutes. Then he got on another plane and flew for four-six hours to Turkey, before playing another 75 minutes.


I take what you say on board but to say he played 90 and 75 is asking us to refute the evidence of our own eyes.  He was appalling in both games.  We'll give him the benefit though and hope he can come good on Sunday. 
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Offline MFletcher

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #418 on: October 25, 2007, 10:06:19 am »
I take what you say on board but to say he played 90 and 75 is asking us to refute the evidence of our own eyes.  He was appalling in both games.  We'll give him the benefit though and hope he can come good on Sunday. 

I agree he was poor, but I believe that such a demanding schedule will impact on your ability to play at your best. Plane travel is knackering at the best of times, but to have so many flights - and so many games - in such a short space of time is physically demanding and he was probably shattered by Wednesday night.
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Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #419 on: October 25, 2007, 12:11:35 pm »
Maybe I'm the only one here but yesterday was the worst I've seen Masch playing. Failed to win the ball and giving away cheap possesion. Almost as bad as Momo played for the last couple of matches.

Hope this will be the first and last time I see Masch playing as bad as this.
Still gave the ball away less than hollywood Stevie.
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Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #420 on: October 25, 2007, 12:22:10 pm »
Still gave the ball away less than hollywood Stevie.

Yeah, probably right there. I think he will start on Saturday and will need to be at his best to close down Fabregas. The next question is who will he start with? I'd love him to play alongside Alonso, but is he fit enough?

Offline Neil D

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #421 on: October 25, 2007, 01:32:38 pm »
I take what you say on board but to say he played 90 and 75 is asking us to refute the evidence of our own eyes.  He was appalling in both games.  We'll give him the benefit though and hope he can come good on Sunday. 

Gerrard wasn't appalling against Everton, far from it. And he played quite well last night too. Sometimes I wonder what people expect from Stevie - he isn't at his best but his form is slowly returning.

Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #422 on: October 25, 2007, 01:34:52 pm »
Just had a look at the players stats for the match, Mascherano played 4 incomplete/bad passes.  Stevie played 11.  Riise somehow managed 19, which was quite something.
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Offline lookieman

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #423 on: October 25, 2007, 01:40:23 pm »
Gerrard wasn't appalling against Everton, far from it. And he played quite well last night too. Sometimes I wonder what people expect from Stevie - he isn't at his best but his form is slowly returning.

The problem with SG is that he plays too many of them long Hollywood passes, esp yesterday night. Its bad enough having long balls out of the defence, but i was hoping that when Gerrard have the ball, he will do less of those Hollywood passes when there are better options available for him.

I do agree that to say that he playes badly is stretching things a bit though. He could have done better but he was not atrocious.



Offline leiva-pool

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #424 on: October 25, 2007, 01:42:57 pm »
Gerrard wasn't appalling against Everton, far from it. And he played quite well last night too. Sometimes I wonder what people expect from Stevie - he isn't at his best but his form is slowly returning.

I disagree. I think Gerrard was average in both games. And if he is off form then he shouldnt play imo and we dont have to time for his form to slowly return. He's been poor since the first batch of ENgland games which was a long time ago. Its about time he gets his act together because he is a world class player but at the moment i dont see what he contributes to our team.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #425 on: October 25, 2007, 01:44:59 pm »
Still gave the ball away less than hollywood Stevie.

Hardly surprising, as he didn't make himself available to receive the ball all night.
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Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #426 on: October 25, 2007, 01:45:51 pm »
Think it's about fucking time that we went with 3 in the middle. Masch is a great sitting DM, but he needs someone near him at the same time. Chelsea got the best from Makalele(Masch) and Lampard(Stevie) by playing 3 in the middle.

I'm really surprised that Rafa hasn't given this a go! At the very least it might give our opponents something different  to think about. We've become so painfully predictable lately. Time for something a bit different.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #427 on: October 25, 2007, 01:48:47 pm »
This song we've got about the best midfield in the world due to having Mascherano and Sissoko; it's a right load of old bollocks isn't it? 

Mate, any team in the world would love to have Mascherano in their quartet. I know many opposition fans would scoff at our song because of the Momo Sissoko line, but the other three are recognized the world over as top shelf midfielders.

We'll soon get that song sorted by replacing Sissoko with Leiva, although the rhyme and rhythm would be fucked.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #428 on: October 25, 2007, 01:50:12 pm »
Think it's about fucking time that we went with 3 in the middle. Masch is a great sitting DM, but he needs someone near him at the same time. Chelsea got the best from Makalele(Masch) and Lampard(Stevie) by playing 3 in the middle.

I'm really surprised that Rafa hasn't given this a go! At the very least it might give our opponents something different  to think about. We've become so painfully predictable lately. Time for something a bit different.

Isn't that what we did against the Bluenoses? Masch-Momo-Gerrard. Every time Lescott burst down the left the pub crowd would whine about the absence of Pennant. So much for adventurous tactics.

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #429 on: October 25, 2007, 01:55:34 pm »
Isn't that what we did against the Bluenoses? Masch-Momo-Gerrard. Every time Lescott burst down the left the pub crowd would whine about the absence of Pennant. So much for adventurous tactics.

Wasn't Gerrard supposed to be on the right though, not part of a three man midfield. Pretty basic stuff that.           Masch
         Alonso
                      Gerrard

Pennant                        Babel
                   Torres.

Fuck knows how well it would work.


Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #430 on: October 25, 2007, 01:56:57 pm »
Hardly surprising, as he didn't make himself available to receive the ball all night.
Was there much point in Masch making himself available, everytime Sami, Carra or Stevie got the ball it was pinged 40 yards up the pitch.
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Offline Neil D

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #431 on: October 25, 2007, 01:58:32 pm »
I disagree. I think Gerrard was average in both games. And if he is off form then he shouldnt play imo and we dont have to time for his form to slowly return. He's been poor since the first batch of ENgland games which was a long time ago. Its about time he gets his act together because he is a world class player but at the moment i dont see what he contributes to our team.

Yeah, average, not appalling. Who would you have played instead then? Xabi is injured and Gerrard is one of our best players, so to drop him would be insane. Even if you brought Lucas in to play in the middle you'd still want Stevie in the team ahead of Pennant on the right.

Offline redmark

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #432 on: October 25, 2007, 02:03:41 pm »
Was there much point in Masch making himself available, everytime Sami, Carra or Stevie got the ball it was pinged 40 yards up the pitch.

? Yeah, Carragher and Hyypia were pinging it 40 yards precisely because Mascherano wasn't making himself available... Gerrard did come deep to offer an out ball to the defence on occasion, but then had the same problem; also Gerrard is the midfielder pushing up when possible.

I like Mascherano and think he's capable of being a good all round midfielder, not just a sitting/destroyer type. But he hid at times last night. He has the ability to take the ball from the defence and make a pass; not to the degree of Alonso, but moreso than Sissoko. Last night he didn't seem willing or able to do so.
 
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Offline leiva-pool

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #433 on: October 25, 2007, 02:09:50 pm »
Yeah, average, not appalling. Who would you have played instead then? Xabi is injured and Gerrard is one of our best players, so to drop him would be insane. Even if you brought Lucas in to play in the middle you'd still want Stevie in the team ahead of Pennant on the right.

Id play Gerrard on the right like you said ahead of Pennant but not in the middle. I think Rafa shouldve started Lucas yesterday and played Gerrard on the right where he doesnt need to be composed and he can just bomb up field everytime. He might even get his form back by playing on the right instead of centre and when he does finally get his form then we can switch him back to the middle!
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Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #434 on: October 25, 2007, 02:36:19 pm »
? Yeah, Carragher and Hyypia were pinging it 40 yards precisely because Mascherano wasn't making himself available... Gerrard did come deep to offer an out ball to the defence on occasion, but then had the same problem; also Gerrard is the midfielder pushing up when possible.

I like Mascherano and think he's capable of being a good all round midfielder, not just a sitting/destroyer type. But he hid at times last night. He has the ability to take the ball from the defence and make a pass; not to the degree of Alonso, but moreso than Sissoko. Last night he didn't seem willing or able to do so.
I don't think he hid at all, he is by his nature a sitting midfielder, who takes the ball and gives it with a short pass.  He did exactly that, constantly giving the ball when he had it, to a player in space.  Gerrard kept coming back past him to take the ball off the defenders, only to play a ridiculous 40 yard ball straight out of play or an impossible reverse ball that gets cut out easily.  And I think it's daft to say that Sami and Carra only play those long tonks up the field because of Masch, when they do it every game no matter who is playing ahead of them.
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Offline KFC

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #435 on: October 25, 2007, 02:40:31 pm »
I actually thinks he did alright last night, and won a lot of 2nd balls, which is his job.  I wouldn't be dropping him for now.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #436 on: October 25, 2007, 02:50:11 pm »
And I think it's daft to say that Sami and Carra only play those long tonks up the field because of Masch, when they do it every game no matter who is playing ahead of them.

You're misquoting me; I didn't suggest they never normally do so, but that yesterday they did so particularly, because of the lack of options - Mascherano being a significant, though not the only, culprit.

As for Gerrard, he certainly wasn't at his best, but he played a lot of accurate passes to feet (mainly Kuyt dropping deep) too and was involved in some of the few decent moves around the edge of the box. Our lack of movement generally did mean that Gerrard was hitting some speculative (and inaccurate) balls into the corners etc, but again he often had little choice last night. We improved notably not just when Benayoun came on, but particularly when Lucas came on and our simple quick passing in the centre improved immediately.

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Offline Art Vandelay

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #437 on: October 25, 2007, 03:02:11 pm »
As for Gerrard, he certainly wasn't at his best, but he played a lot of accurate passes to feet (mainly Kuyt dropping deep) too and was involved in some of the few decent moves around the edge of the box. Our lack of movement generally did mean that Gerrard was hitting some speculative (and inaccurate) balls into the corners etc, but again he often had little choice last night. We improved notably not just when Benayoun came on, but particularly when Lucas came on and our simple quick passing in the centre improved immediately.
I don't think Gerrard played badly (in that he did work hard, and he got on the end of a couple of half decent moves), I think he played badly as a centre midfielder.  Especially in europe calmness and variation of tempo is key to getting results, and I think he can do neither particularly well.  If Alonso isn't fit for european games in the future, Lucas has to start....even if he is inexperienced.
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Offline LFCDore

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #438 on: October 25, 2007, 03:05:43 pm »
I sometimes have to work a whole week as a painter. And I'm older than them too. Fatigue, come on !

Well, but you aren't directly competing with anyone are you? If you painted all week and had to play football against people who rested all week, you would bring up the fatigue point, wouldn't you? Its about relative tiredness.
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Offline Robser

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Re: Javier Mascherano
« Reply #439 on: October 25, 2007, 03:06:57 pm »
Masch never wants to collect the ball from the back 4 - its not his game! He is there to sit and hold and then lay it off a la Roy Keane! Its is the other players responsibility to take it from the defence and start up attacks - unfortunately without Xabi we dontr have the players capable of doing it - Im sure Gerrard could but he'd have to be more disciplined and i dont think its what Rafa asks of him anyway as he seems to play higher up the pitcha dn you can only presume thats down to the instructions the manager has given him!