Topic: Liverpool 1 - 1 Sunderland, (Suarez, Larsson) - Post Match

[DangerScouse]

Watching Arsenal here, they look genuinely unimpressive. 4th is definitely attainable after watching that.

Don't judge them on one performance, likewise ourselves.

[Paul JH]

Knee jerk reaction that mate, fucking RAWK off after 1 game?! FFS!

Mate, it's been like this for the last two seasons. And it gets worse. Even when we should be behind the man in charge, with a new set of owners and new team, it's the same old pathetic reactions to a draw. Fanbase has gone to the dogs, in here anyway.

[Mizerooskie]

that's a load of bollocks mate...we could have bought aguero with that sort of money. so chelsea could have paid for aguero for us and not carroll. still think carroll will come good, but that is not a good enough excuse.

From the mouth of John W. Henry:  "The fee for Torres was dependent on what Newcastle asked for Carroll,''  "The negotiation for us was simply the difference in prices paid by Chelsea and to Newcastle. Those prices could have been £35million [from Chelsea for Torres] and £20million [to Newcastle for Carroll], 40 and 25 or 50 and 35. It was ultimately up to Newcastle how much this was all going to cost. They [Newcastle] made a hell of a deal. We felt the same way.''

Who's spouting bollocks now?  I'll deal in facts, instead of bitching and moaning about spending 35 million on Carroll.

[carling]

Missed penalty.  Wrongly disallowed goal.  Hit the bar.  No Gerrard or Johnson.  Lucas + Suarez obviously not fully prepared ... I'm not too concerned about today's result.

On another day we would've gone into half time 3-0 up, the way we started was electric I thought.  We gave Sunderland no time to settle whatsoever.  I just want the next game now!!

[subroc]

I am seeing what I am seeing as a limited player. If he is that good, he would be one of the players other top clubs are trying to buy from us. especially those south american players are notorious for moving around once a much better offer comes. Theres alot of my liverpool fan mates who dislike his limitations as well as many who rates him. the truth should be somewhere in the middle. unlike aquilani who, in any forum, and any news article comments you see overwhelming acknowledge ment to his talents.

Lucas at best is a great backup to a top club like liverpool. he has above average ratings in most attributes BUT a master of none. he is an enigma.

Is that your way of finding out whether a Liverpool player is any good or not - it is only if you hear a rumour of another club wanting to sign him? How about exercising your own judgement? Also, are you saying that Lucas' loyalty means that he is actually staying back because no one else wants him?! How old are your friends BTW?

As a defensive midfielder, Lucas has few peers not just in Britain, but internationally. His role is to cut out attacks and to start new ones and by keeping the ball in cosntant circulation. He does those tasks exceedingly well. But many people seem to think he is no good for not tearing into the box to score, or letting loose with a thunderbolt shot at the edge of the box or dribbling past a few players, or supplying the final pass to the striker in the box to score. Those are not his primary jobs - he is supposed to be usually further back, too far back to do those things most of the time. So do not judge him for not doing someone else's job and appreciate him for doing his.

[SpartanTree. No deccies or lights.]

Our two first choices will still be Gerrard and Kuyt. But it did look like Adam had been told it was his duty today, as he ran straight for the ball and picked it up, then Suarez seem to just ask him if he could take it.

Forgot to mention Dirk.
I would trust both of those to take our pens.

[Redallover11]

thought the first half we played well. Pace and patience in the right places. Good composure from all positions. well taken goal wel executed free kick and corners and deliveries all looked threatning.

Second half, fitness looked off. we appeared sluggish. first touch seemed poorer from some and over all we ended up pumping a ball up to carroll. Hope we do not resort to that kind of foootball when in search of a result/winner every time.

enrique looked good all game flanagan tried to play the ball out always  and got caught ut a few times. I don't have full confidence in him but if Johnson is out probably prefer to see kelly in there.

Lucas didn't have the best of games but really seemed like He was on his own in defensive responsibilities. adams definitely a liabelity in that situation.

Sunderland played well, moreso in the second half and probably deserved the draw after escaping the first half, which I think they certainly did.

Not a good start but we'll see.

[mat106]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Kelly, Meireles and Kuyt return to our starting eleven next week.

Agreed but what's the story with Meireles? He didn't feature in pre season much if at all.

[Suspect Package.]

I believe it has, Im on many ignore lists myself.

I need to find and enable this option, though in hindsight I should probably have asked in the feedback section.

The thought of 12 months of reading Ambrosia and Jayo....no wonder Paul's escaping.

[Juan Loco]

I don't see why not. I think he's better off the ball defensively than Adam is, Gerrard too in some ways

That's rubbish mate. Aquilani on here is like the bastard love child of Lothar Matthaus and Socrates.

Adam closed down plenty in the first half, won a few tackles, gave away a few freekicks (I see Lucas is getting little grief for the same thing... ). The amount of 'doubts' - let's call it that - about Adam's performance today compared to Lucas, who was just as sloppy, and more off the pace, is the perfect illustration of RAWK favouritism.


As far as losing the midfield 2nd half goes... here's a wild thought, a bit too simplistic for some on here to take it seriously as a theory, but what the fuck - Suarez was KNACKERED. First half he was dropping off into the pockets of space and we were pressurising the ball when it got to midfield (weh weh no high pressing weh). 2nd half Suarez had the will but not the energy to do the same.

And y'know what, I'd say it was similar in possession as well. We are HUGELY reliant on Suarez not only dropping into that pocket of space between midfield and attack, but also his ability to hold the ball, back to goal in that position. And that's fine, it's ok to be reliant on him. He's a special player with a pretty exceptional fitness record. When he went off today, clearly knackered, we just left a big space between Carroll and the midfield. We didn't really have a player to fill it, hence being stretched, limited fluidity and whatever else.

Suarez is important.

Revelation.

[AriGold]

Mate, it's been like this for the last two seasons. And it gets worse. Even when we should be behind the man in charge, with a new set of owners and new team, it's the same old pathetic reactions to a draw. Fanbase has gone to the dogs, in here anyway.

I know what you mean mate, I hardly read/post in the post match threads anyway to be honest.

[MKelly34]

Agreed but what's the story with Meireles? He didn't feature in pre season much if at all.

He played one game (half). He was injured but he's back now.

If were going by fairness, he should start next game at his natural position.

[Paul JH]

The thought of 12 months of reading Ambrosia

She's the worst of the bunch.

[BazC]

Missed penalty.  Wrongly disallowed goal.  Hit the bar.  No Gerrard or Johnson.  Lucas + Suarez obviously not fully prepared ... I'm not too concerned about today's result.

On another day we would've gone into half time 3-0 up, the way we started was electric I thought.  We gave Sunderland no time to settle whatsoever.  I just want the next game now!!

Exactly. It's amazing how fine the margins are. If only one of those had gone our way we'd be lauding a fantastic opening match. Not to mention the equaliser was an absolute worldie- Sunderland had pretty much fuck all else.

One of those games.

[Dmode101]

Yet he's the best DM in the league, comfortably so, barring perhaps De Jong, who I'd rate as on the same level. I struggle to think of many better DM's in Europe either.

If he does end up back up here then the player that takes his place in DM will be a fucking monster, and on today's evidence I'd take Lucas as the 'creative' option in CM ahead of Adam too.

best in the league DM should not be easily overruned for long periods by a has been £6m cattermole, a manc reject and an unkwnon Larsson (who played well). thats my concern.

[-Daws-]

Would be only fair to give him at least one chance after a superb pre-season.

I'm not knocking Aquilani - he's such a fluid, composed, technically gifted player who is a joy to watch.

The point I was making to this lad is that he hasn't done as much for LFC as Lucas has. Which, no matter which way you try and spin it, his fault or not, is obvious. As obvious as his talents.

[SpartanTree. No deccies or lights.]

As a defensive midfielder, Lucas has few peers not just in Britain, but internationally. His role is to cut out attacks and to start new ones and by keeping the ball in cosntant circulation. He does those tasks exceedingly well. But many people seem to think he is no good for not tearing into the box to score, or letting loose with a thunderbolt shot at the edge of the box or dribbling past a few players, or supplying the final pass to the striker in the box to score. Those are not his primary jobs - he is supposed to be usually further back, too far back to do those things most of the time. So do not judge him for not doing someone else's job and appreciate him for doing his.

Well said.  I'm glad there are a few fans out there who actually watch/study/appreciate what players do during a game.

[Fitzy.]

Links to the goals on here yet?

[liversaint]

Start of a new(ish) era, but you would think we are getting relegated lstening to some around me in 108 today and some of the responses on here

Excellent 1st half, poor decision not to red card after 5 mins, but Adam should have took the penalty IMO, as Suarez was obviously pumped,

Enrique was comfortable both on the ball and in defence, Adam palyed well, and Downing would have closed the goal of the season comp if it hadnt hit the bar. I thought  henderson wasa little nervous ans understanably cautious, but didnt do much wrong. Lucas had a good 1st half then faded, understandably given his Copa exploits

Carroll - decent is 1st half when not used as the only option, couple of good lay offs, unlucky with the "goal"

Second half- ran out of steam and resorted to longer balls with were dealt with easily. I wasnt too sure about pre-season, thinking that some players  needed longer to build fitness

37 to go

[Broken Accidental Stars]

best in the league DM should not be easily overruned for long periods by a has been £6m cattermole, a manc reject and an unkwnon Larsson (who played well). thats my concern.

One game after a Copa Ameri... ah fuck it

[subroc]

Mate, it's been like this for the last two seasons. And it gets worse. Even when we should be behind the man in charge, with a new set of owners and new team, it's the same old pathetic reactions to a draw. Fanbase has gone to the dogs, in here anyway.

No, that is not it at all. What we are griping about is not the result. The result was disappointing, but if we saw good things happening during the match, it's not a problem because the result will come when the foundation is ready.

It is what we see and do not see happening on the pitch even after so much money has been spent that is concerning. The way the team is set up. The way Carroll is isolated. The way Suarez is rushed back in to start, why the team tired so quickly, why Flanagan is played instead of Kelly, the team and defence playing too deep, why there is still after all this time, no cogent connection between efence and midfield and midfield and attack, why there is so much hoofing despite it happening over and over again especially after we signed Carroll, why we are so slow pace-wise in the team, why so much money was spent signing just solid players, etc.

True fans worry and are concerned about it when they see deep structural fault-lines in their team. They support the team when they play, but they do not refrain from discussing their concerns.

[Fitzy.]

It's a flat feeling to draw like that. But with perspective we can see this game as a decent outing against a decent team. Should've had it won after 45mins; we didn't so live with it.

Think we'll be a good team this season and easy on the eye to boot.

[pathetic]

aggghhhhh FUCK OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

It's been one game ffs!

no need to fuck me off mate....i was only arguing that WE COULD HAVE WAITED. i wasnt dissing carroll or the team. i think we saw good signs in the first half of things to come and we don't need to panic. but it;s impossible not to be disappointed.

[S]

Is there any way to look at different teams' records on the opening day through the years? Ours has got to be one of the worst.

[gazza1976]

1st game of the season new owners new players could have been worse could have been beat but a draw a fair result why COZ KING KENNY SAYS SO OK and i agree with him 

[Fitzy.]

It is what we see and do not see happening on the pitch even after so much money has been spent that is concerning.

It's 1 match. Stick a cork in it until you have a series of games on which to base statements like this.

[Paul JH]

True fans worry and are concerned about it when they see deep structural fault-lines in their team.

After one game. It's this kind of stuff that annoys me. Knee-jerk over reacting. 'Deep structural fault lines'?
Christ almighty.

[Breitner]

I tried to start a thread of it's own but it got binned. So any positives at all? I thought we were excellent first half and knocked it about with purpose and looked dangerous every time we went forward

Out of the new lads Enrique and Downing were probably our two best players. I'm sure it'll come for Hendo when he settles into a position

[SpartanTree. No deccies or lights.]

best in the league DM should not be easily overruned for long periods by a has been £6m cattermole, a manc reject and an unkwnon Larsson (who played well). thats my concern.

Unknown Larsson ??  Are you for real ?
If you know anything about football you would understand that Seb larsson is actually a very good footballer.

To clarify your point - can i confirm that you wanted Lucas to mark cattermole, a manc reject and an unkwnon Larsson all on his own ?

Maybe we should look at the reasons why the ball was coming back too quickly (at our back 4) as we gave away possession too cheaply second half ?

[Breitner]

True fans worry and are concerned about it when they see deep structural fault-lines in their team.

I'm having that for my sig

[rednich85]

Adam closed down plenty in the first half, won a few tackles, gave away a few freekicks (I see Lucas is getting little grief for the same thing... ). The amount of 'doubts' - let's call it that - about Adam's performance today compared to Lucas, who was just as sloppy, and more off the pace, is the perfect illustration of RAWK favouritism. 

Agreed with everything else except this.

Adam's lack of involvement in the second half was quite worrying. He looked a spent force and I think we looked vulnerable in the middle. Though Lucas got through a lot more work throughout the 90 minutes.

Its early days though. Maybe he's just topping up on the old 'match fitness'. Sunderland seemed the fitter of the sides though. They seemed too grow in strength and most 50-50's in the middle of the park were being nicked by Sunderland players. I suppose we'll have to get used to the middle of the pitch being swamped when 'smaller' sides come to anfield.

[Juan Loco]

I tried to start a thread of it's own but it got binned. So any positives at all? I thought we were excellent first half and knocked it about with purpose and looked dangerous every time we went forward

Out of the new lads Enrique and Downing were probably our two best players. I'm sure it'll come for Hendo when he settles into a position

We were really good first half. Full stop.

Tend to agree with what Smicer07 said - first half we had the look of potential champions, second half a mid-table team.

So then I ask myself... If I personally feel we just seemed to lack the stamina to continue our play for the full 90, how am I do I think we'll play in 2-3 weeks when we can sustain that level?

Exactly.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Just got back.  In summary

1st half 9 out of 10. Should have been home and dry.  How was that not a sending off?  Half decent atmosphere

2nd looked absolutely knackered.  Atmosphere as flat as the performance.  Deserved not to win.

We need to improve fitness - we drew 1-1.  We move on....

[shelovesyou]

Looked at the Penalty incident again, no way a red card IMO.
Twist it and we'd be saying no way a red card if it was one of ours being sent off.

[Garstonite]

Wes Brown > Franz Beckenbauer/Paolo Maldini/Franco Baresi etc.

[subroc]

That's rubbish mate. Aquilani on here is like the bastard love child of Lothar Matthaus and Socrates.

Adam closed down plenty in the first half, won a few tackles, gave away a few freekicks (I see Lucas is getting little grief for the same thing... ). The amount of 'doubts' - let's call it that - about Adam's performance today compared to Lucas, who was just as sloppy, and more off the pace, is the perfect illustration of RAWK favouritism.


As far as losing the midfield 2nd half goes... here's a wild thought, a bit too simplistic for some on here to take it seriously as a theory, but what the fuck - Suarez was KNACKERED. First half he was dropping off into the pockets of space and we were pressurising the ball when it got to midfield (weh weh no high pressing weh). 2nd half Suarez had the will but not the energy to do the same.

And y'know what, I'd say it was similar in possession as well. We are HUGELY reliant on Suarez not only dropping into that pocket of space between midfield and attack, but also his ability to hold the ball, back to goal in that position. And that's fine, it's ok to be reliant on him. He's a special player with a pretty exceptional fitness record. When he went off today, clearly knackered, we just left a big space between Carroll and the midfield. We didn't really have a player to fill it, hence being stretched, limited fluidity and whatever else.

Suarez is important.

Revelation.

Here's another far more important thought - why is our play so dependent on Suarez to be that link with the attack despite spending more than 100M upgrading the team? Isn't the entire team supposed to be doing that pass and move thing so thaty we are not overly dependent on one player no matter who he is? Isn't that the foundation of our greatest teams? Surely these things should concern us all...

On the subject of Aquilani, perhaps the calls to play him are rooted in the realisation that when he is on song, he will catalyse that kind of pass and move game that we need to see happening on the pitch.
 

[hoonin]

True fans worry and are concerned about it when they see deep structural fault-lines in their team. They support the team when they play, but they do not refrain from discussing their concerns.

They also have patience and a realisation that there are no quick fixes. They don't usually demand instant results purely on the basis of the amount of money spent.

Footballs teams are not created in microwaves.

[rednich85]

After one game. It's this kind of stuff that annoys me. Knee-jerk over reacting. 'Deep structural fault lines'?
Christ almighty.

I don't think it's at all 'knee-jerking' to have concerns about a back line that leaked goals last season.....this pre season and in the first game of the new season.

We've talked about the need for a new centre back for about two years.

Its hardly breaking news.

[AriGold]

Looked at the Penalty incident again, no way a red card IMO.
Twist it and we'd be saying no way a red card if it was one of ours being sent off.

How isn't it a red? He's brought him down as he was rounding the keeper ffs.

[incredibleL4ever]

When we play a high tempo game, closing the opposition down and getting bodies into the box we win.  When we allow the opposition time on the ball and lump long balls up to Carroll we don't...irrespective of the team selection or the manager.

I was surprised to see that we could not sustain the high tempo game for more than 30 minutes.  The next week will be important in terms of training and getting everyone right for Sunday.