Author Topic: General Manchester City thread  (Read 3445972 times)

Offline Doc Red

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39680 on: February 4, 2020, 05:59:32 pm »
Think this is a really interesting point. You could argue it probably makes sense for managers in other walks of life too. If the answer to all your problems is spend more money, maybe you lose sight that hunger is more important than talent a lot of the time. You look at the money Pep's spent on fullbacks, and not one of them can hold a candle to either of ours, both of whom strike me as the absolute hungriest footballers you could ever wish to meet.


It makes sense in any aspect of life. Early consistent success can actually stunt growth and development. Failure is actually the best opportunity to work on aspects of a business/club/player/organisation/initiative/political structure/ personality etc. Being forced to face failure and having to either create new paths or strengthen and streamline current paths and habits, is how we grow. Facing success consistently makes it harder for us to adapt to failure, and one if the additional risks with consistent early success, is success becomes intertwined with the perception of self. So a successful person that rarely tastes failure, thinks the success is the main part of who they are, rather than an outcome of a  successful strategy or habit. Once they taste defeat, the insecurity from losing their sense of successful identity can lead them to depresssion.

In a sense, having faced failure and regrouped to try again, is so important to have on a CV. I absolutely believe that Klopp's near misses with promotion at Mainz, Cup Final losses with Dortmund, and near misses with us in the league and Europe, is why the atmosphere at the club is both calm, yet incredibly focused and hungry and ruthless. We've  tasted defeat as a club, and never want to taste it again, but having faced it before, we don't  fear it. We've  failed before, and realised the next day the sun rises same as before and shit goes on as it once did. Life is bigger than a loss, and Klopp constantly makes statements about the value of a loss. I remember early on in his reign when we were initially unbeaten for the first 5 games or so, he mentioned that he's happy we were unbeaten but that we woukd learn more from our losses.

Pep and Mourinho are on the other side of the spectrum. Losses and defeats, especislly high profile ones, I think play a very large emotional toll on them. If City fail to win Europe or the FA cup, or if we also end up winning in europe or the FA Cup,  I think he'll walk away. Take a year break and end up at PSG or Juventus.
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39681 on: February 4, 2020, 06:04:34 pm »
Edit: Oops! This was in response to Charlie Adams Fried Egg, but I messed the quote up.



So true. As you and Rob said; if we play the first team at their place the fairytale is over in 20 minutes and Shrewsbury bag only their takings from their gate.

As it stands, Shrewsbury fans get to visit a great, welcoming city. They get to visit one of the most famous football stadiums on earth. They get a fantastic night in front of 53,000 people and their club will make a fortune. They may even earn another go at the cup.away to Chelsea if they manage to knock our kids out.

The fairytale is very much alive, yet the media and certain fanbases with agendas of their own prefer to piss all over Shrewsbury's fairytale by talking in negative contexts instead.

The Shrews are having a ball, but the media just want to paint them as victims of the nasty big boys. Talk about hijacking someone else's dreams for your own ends, eh.  ::)

« Last Edit: February 4, 2020, 06:08:19 pm by Sons of pioneerS »
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39682 on: February 4, 2020, 06:07:10 pm »
Shrewsbury's manager and plenty of their fans are happy to join in with the pissing on their own fairytale too. They should be loving it, concentraing on the positives, but some seem more interested in obsessing over negatives.  That's football entitlement today though I spose.   

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39683 on: February 4, 2020, 06:11:15 pm »
Shrewsbury's manager and plenty of their fans are happy to join in with the pissing on their own fairytale too. They should be loving it, concentraing on the positives, but some seem more interested in obsessing over negatives.  That's football entitlement today though I spose.
Really? That's a shame, and I'd not seen it.

Some people are never happy, are they. It's the way of the modern world I suppose. Always focused on the negatives, even if they have to dig extremely deep to find any.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39684 on: February 4, 2020, 06:19:58 pm »
Really? That's a shame, and I'd not seen it.

Some people are never happy, are they. It's the way of the modern world I suppose. Always focused on the negatives, even if they have to dig extremely deep to find any.

It's really annoying.  There was a time holding one of the big boys to a draw was a cause of celebration.  Now it feels like the media are demanding we throw the game, even though our 2nd/3rd string are more than capable of progressing, because Shrewsbury have suddenly got this divine right to get past us.
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Offline mickeydocs

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39685 on: February 4, 2020, 06:20:02 pm »
Shrewsbury's manager and plenty of their fans are happy to join in with the pissing on their own fairytale too. They should be loving it, concentraing on the positives, but some seem more interested in obsessing over negatives.  That's football entitlement today though I spose.   

We've given them two great opportunities to progress to the next round. They want the money given to them.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39686 on: February 4, 2020, 06:59:25 pm »
they need content and they like the chance to moralise.

Had we played the full team at Shrewsbury, or even if we didn't concede 2, this would never have been an issue.
 But of course it's been years since tabloid hacks have ever tried to do their jobs and present both sides of the story.

Also, if the fa did their job and ensured standard rules for all ties i.e. installing var for non-pl home teams in 3rd round onwards then they'd have already been out of the comp anyway.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39687 on: February 4, 2020, 07:07:37 pm »
This thread has gone a bit bonkers  ;D

Pretty sure most people know Guardiola is a really excellent coach. A lot of what gets said is to rip the shit out of him - a lot of that he brings upon himself to be honest. Doesn't mean the realisaton isn't there that he is great at what he does.  People don't really need the fact shoved down their throat by people desperate to appear objective. Most can differentiate between piss taking and seriousness.

What can be said though, is he doesn't really react well to pressure. He didn't in Spain, and he hasn't here. That doesn't diminish his talents at coaching. Yes he did great last year being pushed all the way by Liverpool, but I think his response to it all raises a few questions. Unlike Liverpool, City are not mentality monsters. And that sort of attitude trickles down from the coach.


Spot on, the last part. If pep sticks around with them I feel we have the mineral advantage over them.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39688 on: February 4, 2020, 07:24:51 pm »

Spot on, the last part. If pep sticks around with them I feel we have the mineral advantage over them.

By mineral, do you mean that they are backed by oil, whereas our squad is worth their weight in gold?  ;D

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39689 on: February 4, 2020, 08:17:08 pm »
By mineral, do you mean that they are backed by oil, whereas our squad is worth their weight in gold?  ;D
Don't underestimate our players, mate. the price of gold is just under £39k/kilo. Ali would be worth some £3.5m...
« Last Edit: February 4, 2020, 08:20:01 pm by farawayred »
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39690 on: February 4, 2020, 09:07:30 pm »
:lmao

What's your take on it then MJD?

Based on the power ratings (can't remember the site but am trundling back through Andrew Beasley's feed to try and find it) he has three sides in the top ten rated teams of all time. Klopp has two I think. The basis is streaks of dominant performance. Looking at that, Guardiola's at least top 5.

I think it's all a bit asinine really - we're home and hosed and European and World Champions. If we can't muster a bit of sportsmanship we can't complain when we don't get recognition ourselves.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39691 on: February 4, 2020, 10:36:18 pm »
What's your take on it then MJD?

Well, I'm only 29 so can't speak too much for our managers from before I was born but surely Shankly & Paisley have a shout? As well as Busby & Ferguson. If we're talking greatest of all time. Then you've got the likes of Mourinho, Wenger (despite the last few years) our own Klopp & others.
 
Pep's certainly up there but a shoe in for 2nd greatest of all time? I tend not to rate him & Mourinho too highly as I've never seen either of them build a team from next to nothing the way Klopp has. Perhaps I was a bit over enthusiastic with my response, and I'm not really going anywhere with this either lol.

Basically, he's in the top 10 for sure, guaranteed 2nd though? I'm not sure.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39692 on: February 4, 2020, 10:44:46 pm »
There's Sacchi, Johan Cruyff, Rinus Michels etc who revolutionised the game. So many I'd put above the baldie fraud.

In fact his philosophy is just basically a more boring approach of Total Football.  ;D

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39693 on: February 4, 2020, 10:48:25 pm »
Well, I'm only 29 so can't speak too much for our managers from before I was born but surely Shankly & Paisley have a shout? As well as Busby & Ferguson. If we're talking greatest of all time. Then you've got the likes of Mourinho, Wenger (despite the last few years) our own Klopp & others.
 
Pep's certainly up there but a shoe in for 2nd greatest of all time? I tend not to rate him & Mourinho too highly as I've never seen either of them build a team from next to nothing the way Klopp has. Perhaps I was a bit over enthusiastic with my response, and I'm not really going anywhere with this either lol.

Basically, he's in the top 10 for sure, guaranteed 2nd though? I'm not sure.

And he's a bit of a bell as well to be honest.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39694 on: February 4, 2020, 10:54:42 pm »
Pep is a very good coach, but I wont put him in the same bracket with Michels, Lobanovskiy, Cruyff, and Sacchi (as Samie said above) until he actually builds a team. He inherited a pretty damn good Barca team that was already winning a lot and made it better. Then a Bayern team that was winning a lot and kept winning after he left. Same with City. When I see Pep go to a club with a potential but is not yet dominant and transforms that team into a winning machine, then he'd be in the conversation. In fact, Klopp is more worthy of being in that conversation with his work from Meinz, to Dortmund, to Liverpool. Yet, it's too early even for him.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39695 on: February 4, 2020, 11:07:32 pm »
Pep is a very good coach, but I wont put him in the same bracket with Michels, Lobanovskiy, Cruyff, and Sacchi (as Samie said above) until he actually builds a team. He inherited a pretty damn good Barca team that was already winning a lot and made it better. Then a Bayern team that was winning a lot and kept winning after he left. Same with City. When I see Pep go to a club with a potential but is not yet dominant and transforms that team into a winning machine, then he'd be in the conversation. In fact, Klopp is more worthy of being in that conversation with his work from Meinz, to Dortmund, to Liverpool. Yet, it's too early even for him.
You're saying you want pep to take the Everton job?
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39697 on: February 4, 2020, 11:14:59 pm »
Neither of them are sound. They're both absolute pricks

Not that I care about defending him but just because he makes jokes about his side beating ours then is it that much of a big deal?

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39698 on: February 4, 2020, 11:16:50 pm »
You're saying you want pep to take the Everton job?
Wouldn't that be something? Not too dissimilar from Carlo either...
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39699 on: February 4, 2020, 11:17:00 pm »
Was recently reading Bob Paisley's bio on Wikipedia and it mentioned he had a trophy/win ratio of 2.2 - apparently it's only bested by Guardiola. 

Paisley won six titles, three EC's, one UEFA, a Super Cup, three league cups and six Charity Shields. Personally, stats don't tell the whole story, and I know which manager I prefer.  The clue is in Bob's new statue.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39700 on: February 4, 2020, 11:20:40 pm »
I bet you anything Pep's next job will be at PSG so he can continue to spend loads of money.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39701 on: February 4, 2020, 11:22:33 pm »
Was recently reading Bob Paisley's bio on Wikipedia and it mentioned he had a trophy/win ratio of 2.2 - apparently it's only bested by Guardiola. 

Paisley won six titles, three EC's, one UEFA, a Super Cup, three league cups and six Charity Shields. Personally, stats don't tell the whole story, and I know which manager I prefer.  The clue is in Bob's new statue.
I was too young to remember Shanks, so Bob was Mr Liverpool to me. A totally different character to Bill but no less as important to the history of this football club.

I"m with you, I'd take him over Pep any day of the week, not just in his ability and what he won but because he was just a genuine nice guy who wouldn't say a bad word about anyone.

A class act, as simple as that
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39702 on: February 4, 2020, 11:37:20 pm »
I bet you anything Pep's next job will be at PSG so he can continue to spend loads of money.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39703 on: February 4, 2020, 11:39:20 pm »
Loves a challenge

The should do a sequel of Brewster’s millions with Guardiola as the lead.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39704 on: February 4, 2020, 11:51:28 pm »
Not that I care about defending him but just because he makes jokes about his side beating ours then is it that much of a big deal?

Isn't his awful band and his terrible music enough to make jokes about him?
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39705 on: February 5, 2020, 12:08:44 am »
The should do a sequel of Brewster’s millions with Guardiola as the lead.

The only rule is he can't spend any of it on shite fullbacks

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39706 on: February 5, 2020, 12:10:50 am »
The only rule is he can't spend any of it on shite fullbacks

He'd be utterly baffled if that was a condition of any spending and wouldn't know how to cope.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39707 on: February 5, 2020, 12:27:23 am »
Diminish it all you like but he’s maybe the 2nd best manager in the history of the game. Klopp’s got a chance to make him 3rd now.

Any talk about Man City and Guardiola not being any good could well look silly again next season, in a sense the 20 points plus margin currently  is deceptive IMO, they're still scarily good and potentially close to our level even if they've underachieved this season.

But in the football history, "Jonathan Wilson" perspective, the Guardiola/Barca style of football seems to me crazily overrated compared to Klopp's. To me it looks like a lot of teams on every level have adopted high pressing now compared to ten years ago, and that the pressing concept that Klopp was the one who pioneered at a high level has influenced football long-term more than Barcelona's passing/tiki-taka. So why Guardiola is regarded as a visionary, and Klopp just a good manager, I don't know. For me, it looks like Klopp if anyone is the visionary who has tactically changed the game as a whole in the last 10-15 years, while at the same time also looking like the better manager currently just in terms of getting results.

But because there is a "purity" to the Barca model (which it can afford because it's been mainly tried by rich clubs rather than being developed as underdog football at Mainz), while Klopp's style is pragmatic, the former gets romanticized much more. So Guardiola is viewed as a purist pushing the envelope of what football can be, and Klopp as a man-manager hugging players and bringing home hard fought wins, both of which are over-simplified narratives IMO.
« Last Edit: February 5, 2020, 12:33:53 am by Bjornar »

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39708 on: February 5, 2020, 12:39:24 am »
tomorrows daily Mail are saying he wants to offload Cancelo who he bought for 65 million euros!

'Kinell...

See, this is my point.

He buys shite.


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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39709 on: February 5, 2020, 01:57:09 am »
So he wants to cancel Cancelao?

Ok I’ll get my coat.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39710 on: February 5, 2020, 02:32:01 am »
Guardiola has done brilliantly well but he's also been at three clubs that have been the richest (or in Barcelona's case second richest) teams in their respective leagues. He's largely started from the top in each case and had the money to basically buy whoever he wants. If he hadn't had that would he really be considered a better, or more innovative manager than Marcelo Bielsa?

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39711 on: February 5, 2020, 07:21:28 am »
I was too young to remember Shanks, so Bob was Mr Liverpool to me. A totally different character to Bill but no less as important to the history of this football club.

I"m with you, I'd take him over Pep any day of the week, not just in his ability and what he won but because he was just a genuine nice guy who wouldn't say a bad word about anyone.

A class act, as simple as that

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39712 on: February 5, 2020, 08:33:09 am »
What a lovely picture that is.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39713 on: February 5, 2020, 09:39:37 am »
They’re posting up the Merseyside police contact on bluemoon so fans can report our ‘hacking’ (or industrial espionage as they’re calling it now). Genuinely never seen saltiness of the like before. Levels of derangement beyond anything I’ve seen from football fans. It’s extraordinary and actually quite fascinating.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39714 on: February 5, 2020, 09:42:36 am »
They’re posting up the Merseyside police contact on bluemoon so fans can report our ‘hacking’ (or industrial espionage as they’re calling it now). Genuinely never seen saltiness of the like before. Levels of derangement beyond anything I’ve seen from football fans. It’s extraordinary and actually quite fascinating.
Given how few fans they actually have, this is smelling increasingly like an orchestrated social media smear campaign.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39715 on: February 5, 2020, 09:53:57 am »
Sounds more like a clever police scheme to get blueloons to hand themselves in.
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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39716 on: February 5, 2020, 09:54:47 am »
Their entire forum has lost their minds.

Every thread comes back to how they've been robbed this season.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39717 on: February 5, 2020, 10:07:52 am »
They’re posting up the Merseyside police contact on bluemoon so fans can report our ‘hacking’ (or industrial espionage as they’re calling it now). Genuinely never seen saltiness of the like before. Levels of derangement beyond anything I’ve seen from football fans. It’s extraordinary and actually quite fascinating.

Yes, I'm sure the police will be really keen to get involved in the "hacking scandal" that Manchester City have already accepted a financial settlement for.

This is only being brought up now because we're on top. It's seems like they've kept their mouths shut about it so that they could release it to the media if/when we ever started to overtake them. Genuinely wouldn't surprise me at all if this was leaked from one of their brainwashed members of staff in an attempt to derail our campaign earlier this season.

They could see we were pulling away from them so they thought, "it's time to drop a bomb" and sent that news out to the press. "They'll tear Liverpool to shreds" they thought. "This will knock them off their stride" they hoped.

They were wrong.

Offline AnfieldIron

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39718 on: February 5, 2020, 10:15:01 am »
What is this "hacking scandal" anyway?

Anything to be worried about or just bollocks?

I've seen it referred to as "industrial espionage" haha.

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Re: General Manchester City thread
« Reply #39719 on: February 5, 2020, 10:24:12 am »
Yes, I'm sure the police will be really keen to get involved in the "hacking scandal" that Manchester City have already accepted a financial settlement for.


In their demented heads, lack of police action will just prove an Establishment conspiracy against them.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"