Topic: Liverpool 1 - 1 Sunderland, (Suarez, Larsson) - Post Match

[rednich85]

Looked at the Penalty incident again, no way a red card IMO.
Twist it and we'd be saying no way a red card if it was one of ours being sent off.

He denied a clear goalscoring opportunity.

Red card.

Simple as that really.

[Golden_Child]

Fuck this, I'm going back to the flagpole corner.

"Wah wah, lucas is shit, carroll is shit, henderson is shit wah wah etc" 

[shelovesyou]

I tried to start a thread of it's own but it got binned. So any positives at all? I thought we were excellent first half and knocked it about with purpose and looked dangerous every time we went forward

Out of the new lads Enrique and Downing were probably our two best players. I'm sure it'll come for Hendo when he settles into a position

Loads of positives regarding the 1st half mate, we looked amazing at times.
Our pre season was perhaps not prepared all that well and this has effected our fitness.
We have been playing some players who just will not feature for us that much in attempts to offload them.
Its affected some of the fitness but we wont get full fitness for a few games yet and the lads need to gel.
Im very happy with how we look.

[Juan Loco]

Agreed with everything else except this.

Adam's lack of involvement in the second half was quite worrying. He looked a spent force and I think we looked vulnerable in the middle. Though Lucas got through a lot more work throughout the 90 minutes.

Its early days though. Maybe he's just topping up on the old 'match fitness'. Sunderland seemed the fitter of the sides though. They seemed too grow in strength and most 50-50's in the middle of the park were being nicked by Sunderland players. I suppose we'll have to get used to the middle of the pitch being swamped when 'smaller' sides come to anfield.

I thought Lucas was quite sloppy today to be honest mate, but that's a dangerous thing to say on here.

Did he get through more work? Probably - but then that's sorta his role, far as I can see.

There were a few things Adam did, working himself into position for the shot, that run with the ball into the box at the end, that were really good. I thought in the main his passing was pretty decent, he did a pretty decent shift defensively and was good at the one touch. Yeah, he gave away a few fouls and got caught once or twice, but for me it was strong display from him. I think plenty have an issue with his signing that'll taint their views.

[shelovesyou]

He denied a clear goalscoring opportunity.

Red card.

Simple as that really.

He fouled him before he got passed the keeper though, thats my thinking mate.
Not that that matters I suppose so I guess yer right.

[Mr Dilkington]

Here's another far more important thought - why is our play so dependent on Suarez to be that link with the attack despite spending more than 100M upgrading the team? Isn't the entire team supposed to be doing that pass and move thing so thaty we are not overly dependent on one player no matter who he is? Isn't that the foundation of our greatest teams? Surely these things should concern us all...

On the subject of Aquilani, perhaps the calls to play him are rooted in the realisation that when he is on song, he will catalyse that kind of pass and move game that we need to see happening on the pitch.

Because he's that good. It's the same situation with Messi and Ronaldo for their respective clubs. No matter how much talent they have around them, they are the main men. It's natural.

[Terry de Niro]

How isn't it a red? He's brought him down as he was rounding the keeper ffs.

That's exactly how I saw it.
If the rule is that the last man gets sent off, then Dowd called it wrong, again..

[Phil M]

We'll be sound. Carroll will be a beast for us. Disappointed with the result, tremendous goal by larsson but we're in good shape. We faded second half alright but that's to be expected. It's gonna be one hell of a season.

[Aristotle]

Looked at the Penalty incident again, no way a red card IMO.
Twist it and we'd be saying no way a red card if it was one of ours being sent off.

If Richardson isn't there, Suarez doesn't need to alter his run so thusly he's interfering with play, then once he's ditched him making it a clear cut chance he's brought down. If it's a pen it's a red card that's just how it should be

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

That's rubbish mate. Aquilani on here is like the bastard love child of Lothar Matthaus and Socrates.

Adam closed down plenty in the first half, won a few tackles, gave away a few freekicks (I see Lucas is getting little grief for the same thing... ). The amount of 'doubts' - let's call it that - about Adam's performance today compared to Lucas, who was just as sloppy, and more off the pace, is the perfect illustration of RAWK favouritism.


As far as losing the midfield 2nd half goes... here's a wild thought, a bit too simplistic for some on here to take it seriously as a theory, but what the fuck - Suarez was KNACKERED. First half he was dropping off into the pockets of space and we were pressurising the ball when it got to midfield (weh weh no high pressing weh). 2nd half Suarez had the will but not the energy to do the same.

And y'know what, I'd say it was similar in possession as well. We are HUGELY reliant on Suarez not only dropping into that pocket of space between midfield and attack, but also his ability to hold the ball, back to goal in that position. And that's fine, it's ok to be reliant on him. He's a special player with a pretty exceptional fitness record. When he went off today, clearly knackered, we just left a big space between Carroll and the midfield. We didn't really have a player to fill it, hence being stretched, limited fluidity and whatever else.

Suarez is important.

Revelation.

the problem with adam is he closes down shabily
normally over commiting to one direction and then unable to re adjust.
its a real problem with British players.

at least aquilani stays on hsi toes trying to read the player.

[SpartanTree. No deccies or lights.]

True fans worry and are concerned about it when they see deep structural fault-lines in their team. They support the team when they play, but they do not refrain from discussing their concerns.

Deep structural fault-lines ?   Absolute rubbish.
How you've come to that conclusion after that second half is beyond me.

'True Fans' don't post such shite after a poor 45 minutes during the FIRST game of the season.

Give em a chance eh ?  before you condemn them all.



 

[Terry de Niro]

He fouled him before he got passed the keeper though, thats my thinking mate.
Not that that matters I suppose so I guess yer right.

So Suarez only had the keeper to beat.
That's a sending off according to the rules?

[LiverpoolForever]

No, that is not it at all. What we are griping about is not the result. The result was disappointing, but if we saw good things happening during the match, it's not a problem because the result will come when the foundation is ready.

It is what we see and do not see happening on the pitch even after so much money has been spent that is concerning. The way the team is set up. The way Carroll is isolated. The way Suarez is rushed back in to start, why the team tired so quickly, why Flanagan is played instead of Kelly, the team and defence playing too deep, why there is still after all this time, no cogent connection between efence and midfield and midfield and attack, why there is so much hoofing despite it happening over and over again especially after we signed Carroll, why we are so slow pace-wise in the team, why so much money was spent signing just solid players, etc.

True fans worry and are concerned about it when they see deep structural fault-lines in their team. They support the team when they play, but they do not refrain from discussing their concerns.

Not when i see things like ''Flanagan is garbage'' and ''deep fault-lines'' after ONE game , dont you think this is just a tad OTT? We had playerts playing after a major tournament , Enrique playing after just 1 training session , players out injured.In spite of all this we played very well in the first half and on another day would of been 2 or 3 up.But yet , you still proclaim that the team has ''deep structral fault-lines''

Of course its disapointing to draw but with so many new signings ,relationships still developing there is obviously much more to come but the positives from today are there for all to see.

Tired early, lost momentum, too many whistles being blown....

But plenty to look forward to as these players get to know each other more and the team settles into a rhythm.

[Juan Loco]

the problem with adam is he closes down shabily
normally over commiting to one direction and then unable to re adjust.
its a real problem with British players.

at least aquilani stays on hsi toes trying to read the player.

Ok.

I mean, it's not really true, but it sounds a complicated enough theory to be embraced by RAWK.

[shelovesyou]

That's exactly how I saw it.
If the rule is that the last man gets sent off, then Dowd called it wrong, again..

Yep, I looked at it again and thought it wasnt but on reflection I got that wrong, clearly.
Lucky we scored after though.

[mat106]

He played one game (half). He was injured but he's back now.

If were going by fairness, he should start next game at his natural position.

Cheers

[reddd10]

Loved it when one of their players went down and the game stopped, almost every player went over to the side line for drinks. Suarez stood, hands on hips, in the centre circle, wanting to start play again. Love it.

[cal_liverpoolfc]

Just got back.  In summary

1st half 9 out of 10. Should have been home and dry.  How was that not a sending off?  Half decent atmosphere

2nd looked absolutely knackered.  Atmosphere as flat as the performance.  Deserved not to win.

We need to improve fitness - we drew 1-1.  We move on....

Nail hit right on the fucking head. Spot on.

[shelovesyou]

So Suarez only had the keeper to beat.
That's a sending off according to the rules?

Yep, just said that mate in post above, I was wrong, fair do's.

[rednich85]

I thought Lucas was quite sloppy today to be honest mate, but that's a dangerous thing to say on here.

Did he get through more work? Probably - but then that's sorta his role, far as I can see.

There were a few things Adam did, working himself into position for the shot, that run with the ball into the box at the end, that were really good. I thought in the main his passing was pretty decent, he did a pretty decent shift defensively and was good at the one touch. Yeah, he gave away a few fouls and got caught once or twice, but for me it was strong display from him. I think plenty have an issue with his signing that'll taint their views.

If they're in there as a '2', I'd expect both my midfielders to share the work load equally.

You're right, Lucas was more sloppy than his usual efficient game. I'm just hoping its ring rust.

It was good to see Kenny trying something different, even if it was an 'orthodox' 4-4-2. You made a good point about our reliance on Suarez providing the link between midfield and the front. We looked lost when Suarez disappeared.

[Agger]

I can't even imagine how nervous the new guys were before this game. We will be all right.
A trip to emirates will be good for them.

Patience is vital now.

[Suspect Package.]

I tried to start a thread of it's own but it got binned. So any positives at all? I thought we were excellent first half and knocked it about with purpose and looked dangerous every time we went forward

Out of the new lads Enrique and Downing were probably our two best players. I'm sure it'll come for Hendo when he settles into a position

Lots of positives,  but we didn't win so of course the sky is falling for some.

Our new left side looks really good. Enrique looked exactly the player I thought he'd be though he needs some attacking license. Suarez is still a monster player. We should probably have won that game, with more 'balanced' officiating we would have won it in the first half. IMO that was nothing like our 'first choice' right side either, what with Kuyt, Johnson and Kelly waiting to come in.

Lots of new players making their professional debuts, some players rusty after the summer, the team is still gelling and learning to play together.

Personally my real negatives are that our midfield showed in the second half it doesn't know how to play together properly yet, and we need to integrate our new players into the team without unbalancing it as a unit.  Wouldn't be surprised if Kenny experiments what with Meireles, Aquilani, Spearing etc waiting to come in too. We've plenty of options/formations to try out until we get it right.

[carling]

So any positives at all?

Out of the new lads Enrique and Downing were probably our two best players.

Without a doubt Enrique and Downing were the two main positives.  I'm certain they will both hit the ground running.  It was blindingly obvious they are both quality, experienced players.  Under a lot of circumstances I'd be a bit worried about a whole new flank, I don't think we'll have many concerns with these two.

[subroc]

After one game. It's this kind of stuff that annoys me. Knee-jerk over reacting. 'Deep structural fault lines'?
Christ almighty.

Why should it annoy you? We all care about the team - and worrying about what we see as weaknesses that need to be addressed is part of it. We are not calling for anybodys head - just pointing out things that concern us. If that annoys you, perhaps I should be annoyed at being labelled knee-jerk and annoyed at you being blind to those things and simplistically misunderstanding concern as alarmism? Where will all that end?!

You think the team is fine and just needs to settle down. I think the team is not and that these weaknesses need to be addressed. Fine - we all have our opinions. Time will tell who is right.

[Cadno]

We were really good first half. Full stop.

Tend to agree with what Smicer07 said - first half we had the look of potential champions, second half a mid-table team.

So then I ask myself... If I personally feel we just seemed to lack the stamina to continue our play for the full 90, how am I do I think we'll play in 2-3 weeks when we can sustain that level?

Exactly.

I'd agree with that too.  The lack of stamina in the second half was the main cause of our problems.  Plenty to be optimisitc about and liek you said we will get fitter, the second half today had a real feel of a pre season game hopefully we can get up to speed for the next game

[rednich85]

That's exactly how I saw it.
If the rule is that the last man gets sent off, then Dowd called it wrong, again..

The rule isn't last man mate.

Its if the defender 'denies a clear goalscoring opportunity'.......which he clearly did.

Red card.

[MKelly34]

The second half made a lot of people exaggerate. They are forgetting our brilliant display at 1st h. The problem is our confidence. We were being outplayed by Sunderland after they scored. We were making a lot of fouls as well.

This is our biggest problem... if the game wasn't at home, it could have been ugly.

Sort out our confidence, do the rest of our necessary transfers, like getting a CB in and selling more deadwood, and we're set for the rest of the season.

[BRdispatch05]

This forum depresses me

[Terry de Niro]

The rule isn't last man mate.

Its if the defender 'denies a clear goalscoring opportunity'.......which he clearly did.

Red card.

So we agree about the wrong decision then?

[-Daws-]

This place is just fuckin' nuts.

To all the whoopers on here - don't worry, it's not the end of the world. If you do feel the need to kill yourself because we drew with Sunderland then feel free to do so, just don't jump of train bridges because there are normal people working on Saturdays and I know how irratating it is when you want to go home but can't because there's limbs on the track. You might want to end your day, but don't ruin ours.

However if you chose not to end it all, I hope you enjoy strictly come dancing, xfactor, britains got talent or whatever shite is on tonight. Don't forget to ask mummy and daddy if you can stay up to watch MOTD - you never know, you might learn something from grandmasters Lawro and Hansen.

I'm going down the pub. Laters.

[Growl]

We'll be sound. Carroll will be a beast for us. Disappointed with the result, tremendous goal by larsson but we're in good shape. We faded second half alright but that's to be expected. It's gonna be one hell of a season.

I agree that we'll be sound, but why was it to be expected that we'd fade when Sunderland clearly didn't?

[Stateside Red]

Don't think we should complain too much about a red card decision in the 6th minute of Sunderland home ... if we had converted the penalty it would hardly be mentioned. We should have taken our chances in the 1st half and put the game away. Let's learn from that and prepare for Arsenal.

[lgvkarlos]

Never got relaxed possession of the ball. Moving it back to front way to quickly with way to many long balls,  the whole team was way to spread defence to deep. Felt really sorry for Flannagan great prospect but got very little help. Cannot believe Raul got on the pitch ahead of Alberto think that must mean he is off. Thought all the new lads did ok. Lots of new players to bed in was always going to be a problem early season. Kenny will get them passing again and I think we will be a force. Have to say the Raul substitution was a joke he has had no pre season and did nothing when he came on.

[ghost1359]

Adam deserves a mention too, had a really good first half, impossible for him to impose himself on the game in the second, the ball spent the majority of the time in the air

[redway101]

I thought Lucas was quite sloppy today to be honest mate, but that's a dangerous thing to say on here.

Did he get through more work? Probably - but then that's sorta his role, far as I can see.

There were a few things Adam did, working himself into position for the shot, that run with the ball into the box at the end, that were really good. I thought in the main his passing was pretty decent, he did a pretty decent shift defensively and was good at the one touch. Yeah, he gave away a few fouls and got caught once or twice, but for me it was strong display from him. I think plenty have an issue with his signing that'll taint their views.

Lucas is a pretty decent player now who has improved substantially over the last few seasons. I don't think he's a truely top class defensive midfielder but he can do a job for us. In all fairness there aren't actually that many top class defensive midfielders around, we've also been spoilt over the last few years by having two of the very best.

[shelovesyou]

I hate to use them as an example but Utd never peak fitness wise until Xmas time, so I dont see the panic here.
Just a thought.

[Breitner]

When we play a high tempo game, closing the opposition down and getting bodies into the box we win.  When we allow the opposition time on the ball and lump long balls up to Carroll we don't...irrespective of the team selection or the manager.

I was surprised to see that we could not sustain the high tempo game for more than 30 minutes.  The next week will be important in terms of training and getting everyone right for Sunday.

I don't think any team, bar Barca, can play a high tempo pressing game for 90 minutes, even when fully fit, and their success is usually about their superior technical and passing ability

I think a big problem is how deep we sit with Carra in the side. We often start well and press high up but gradually drop off and invite teams onto us and become disjointed because we're wary of his lack of pace. It's a bit of an elephant in the room at the moment and I'd like to see how we'd function with 2 mobile CB's who are not scared of the ball

[the3rdman]

Just back from the game. Well, via the offy. From my point of view we looked decent in the first half. Lots of pass and move tidy balls and importantly good off the ball movement. Henderson initially was a little bit absent from the game but managed to get forward and track back when needed. Downing looks quality. Adam got stuck in. The pen should of been a sending off, i reckon the ref bottled it. Infact the ref didnt do us any favours at all.

That said, the second half was a different matter. Gone were the short passes and good movement and in were the long balls and the passes to nobody. The fitness seemed an issue. Sunderland looked fitter then we did. The worst thing about it was the constant hoof it up and try and stick it on Carroll's head. We can't use that as our only attacking option. Was there even an actual shot at the Kop end? We stood off them, we gave them too much time and we didnt have any ideas when we had the ball, because by that point we had been chasing it for so long. Flanno had a nightmare. I like the lad and hope it's just one of those learning experiences.

Early days and not too worried. Just disappointing when you go away from a game and a draw feels like a loss.

[Juan Loco]

If they're in there as a '2', I'd expect both my midfielders to share the work load equally.

You're right, Lucas was more sloppy than his usual efficient game. I'm just hoping its ring rust.

I doubt it's anythig more than that. He's had 45 minutes of a pre-season (and unlike Suarez he didn't have a huge gap in last season). He'll be fine, it's not like he didn't show any quality today,it's just he - like a few - looked a bit off the pace 2nd half and like he wasn't quite sure who was going to do what between he and Adam. I think that's to be expected.

I thought Adam worked very hard to be honest, but looked a little unsure of his job at times, as they did as a partnership. Then again, at others, they looked very good. I'd chalk that up to them playing together for the first time save for 30 odd minutes in pre-season, but I'm sure there's a much more highly-developed theory going around. Adam can't play in a '2' because he's from Dundee or something...

It was good to see Kenny trying something different, even if it was an 'orthodox' 4-4-2. You made a good point about our reliance on Suarez providing the link between midfield and the front. We looked lost when Suarez disappeared.

Aye.

But the thing is, he's got a great record of fitness, and pretty sharpish he'll be back up to pace so it will simply cease to be an issue. Yeah, we'll be reliant. Teams are usually pretty reliant on their best players.

[Jokerman]

That's rubbish mate. Aquilani on here is like the bastard love child of Lothar Matthaus and Socrates.

Adam closed down plenty in the first half, won a few tackles, gave away a few freekicks (I see Lucas is getting little grief for the same thing... ). The amount of 'doubts' - let's call it that - about Adam's performance today compared to Lucas, who was just as sloppy, and more off the pace, is the perfect illustration of RAWK favouritism.


As far as losing the midfield 2nd half goes... here's a wild thought, a bit too simplistic for some on here to take it seriously as a theory, but what the fuck - Suarez was KNACKERED. First half he was dropping off into the pockets of space and we were pressurising the ball when it got to midfield (weh weh no high pressing weh). 2nd half Suarez had the will but not the energy to do the same.

And y'know what, I'd say it was similar in possession as well. We are HUGELY reliant on Suarez not only dropping into that pocket of space between midfield and attack, but also his ability to hold the ball, back to goal in that position. And that's fine, it's ok to be reliant on him. He's a special player with a pretty exceptional fitness record. When he went off today, clearly knackered, we just left a big space between Carroll and the midfield. We didn't really have a player to fill it, hence being stretched, limited fluidity and whatever else.

Suarez is important.

Revelation.

Agree with every word of that.