Topic: Mohamed Salah - Best in the World *

[Knight]

There's just no drop off in his numbers at all.. in fact he's been better this season than last season (though obv the team's been better) 

I'm never totally against selling older players but he's put up a fantastic year .. there's an awful lot of recency bias around at the moment

Sometimes the age curve is a cliff. It’s probably recency bias - or he could be in free fall.

[Lynndenberries]

Sometimes the age curve is a cliff. It’s probably recency bias - or he could be in free fall.

Think he's still carrying the injury. He looks stiff and uninvolved, which has never been the case.

At 31 though, almost 32, it will lead to some uncomfortable conversations.

[RooiBefok]

Since AFCON with Salah NOT playing (12), we lost 1, drew 1 and won 83% of games played.

Since Salah’s RETURN from AFCON (12), we have lost 4, drew 2 and won 50% of games played.

In Salah’s LFC contract to date, in which Salah has not played (43), we have lost 4 games, drawn 5 and won 79% of games played.

[Robinred]

There's just no drop off in his numbers at all.. in fact he's been better this season than last season (though obv the team's been better) 

I'm never totally against selling older players but he's put up a fantastic year .. there's an awful lot of recency bias around at the moment

Do you pay no heed to the ‘eye test’ Jack? Genuine question.

[Jake]

Do you pay no heed to the ‘eye test’ Jack? Genuine question.

Not a dig at Jack but generally it's a problem with moneyball and judging people on numbers and metrics.

Chris Wood has more goals than Jota. I'd rather Jota.

[wemmick]

There's just no drop off in his numbers at all.. in fact he's been better this season than last season (though obv the team's been better) 

I'm never totally against selling older players but he's put up a fantastic year .. there's an awful lot of recency bias around at the moment

I think it's legitimate to look at his performances pre- and post-injury. A significant hamstring injury at his age really could be a cliff. We saw that with Gerrard and his groin. Lost his pace and power and it never came back. Mo's game has been built on pace and power and it's an open question if it will return with a good rest and a hardy pre-season.       

[Lynndenberries]

Not a dig at Jack but generally it's a problem with moneyball and judging people on numbers and metrics.

Chris Wood has more goals than Jota. I'd rather Jota.

That’s not a numbers or metrics problems, that’s an issue with the people interpreting / analyzing the numbers.

[JackWard33]

Do you pay no heed to the ‘eye test’ Jack? Genuine question.

Some… he hasn’t been as good post injury … but when a player has a consistent level then dips post injury I’m going to injury first before age.

[astowell1]

Powers wane.  It's the crappy nature of the short career of a footballer.

[Jookie]

Some… he hasn’t been as good post injury … but when a player has a consistent level then dips post injury I’m going to injury first before age.

I’d be inclined to do the same.

I doubt we have a player who was playing at a high level before injury, has a long lay off and is poor post injury but age is the determining factor in decline.

Might eventually be true but the most logical explanation is probably around rhythm post injury and struggles across the team.

I’d keep him next season even if it means running down his contract. Senior players could be really helpful transitioning to a new manager. Would be understanding if we sold him and re-invested so it’s not like I’m locked in on keeping him being the only sensible solution. Just my preferred one is to keep.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I’d be inclined to do the same.

I doubt we have a player who was playing at a high level before injury, has a long lay off and is poor post injury but age is the determining factor in decline.

Might eventually be true but the most logical explanation is probably around rhythm post injury and struggles across the team.

I’d keep him next season even if it means running down his contract. Senior players could be really helpful transitioning to a new manager. Would be understanding if we sold him and re-invested so it’s not like I’m locked in on keeping him being the only sensible solution. Just my preferred one is to keep.

Unfortunately we aren't in a position as a club to keep an asset like Mo another season to help a new manager. If selling him now means that's the difference between the manager bringing in one or two new strikers or not it's a no brainer. It's possible he doesn't even get the minutes next season and the media turns it into the "grumpy Salah on the subs bench" circus, that won't help anyone especially a new manager with those pricks at Sky asking him about it every week.

It's shit but sometimes it's best to do the hard thing and move on.

[telekon]

Try to get 50 million from the Saudis.

He's fallen off a cliff. One of the strangest and hardest declines I've ever seen in professional sport.

He's a club icon and will always be for the magic he has produced. But that is over now.

[Barryg21]

I also think selling him now would be good for the new manager. Just like Ange inherited a post Kane era, and didnt have to deal with annual saga of would he/wont he
New team, in his image

Last thing a brand new manager needs is to be benching Salah and then its a massive media story, and his agent is never one to keep quiet either

[Shankly998]

Below what level of offer would you keep Salah for another season?

[Barryg21]

As per my post above, if Klopp stayed I think you pushed for a higher price
I think if its Slot, he needs to go, as an underperforming Mo which is Slots issue to solve is a massive headache for a brand new manager
It could quickly be a dominant story that just drags on every time he is dropped or subbed

[smicer07]

Try to get 50 million from the Saudis.

He's fallen off a cliff. One of the strangest and hardest declines I've ever seen in professional sport.

He's a club icon and will always be for the magic he has produced. But that is over now.

50 million? 😂 Yeah, double that at least. He's still world class, if someone wants him they have to pay top dollar.

[Barryg21]

He WAS world class
He isnt world class now
He is miles off it

[smicer07]

He WAS world class
He isnt world class now
He is miles off it

He's just out of form. Like the other ten players.

[Draex]

Jesus, he's not been helped by the other forwards this season has he.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1783461137628967108

[RyanBabel19]

Hoping it’s just the injury, he looks like he cant even control the ball at the moment, it’s quite bizarre to see. I dont think i’ve seen him as poor in terms of control in all of his time here

[jepovic]

Hoping it’s just the injury, he looks like he cant even control the ball at the moment, it’s quite bizarre to see. I dont think i’ve seen him as poor in terms of control in all of his time here

Yeah, his touch and passing is completely off. That shouldnt happen from age or injury.
Maybe he still has pain, there's something wrong

[Barryg21]

Jesus, he's not been helped by the other forwards this season has he.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1783461137628967108

Bloody hell. Thats a touch watch
I think Nunez missed 20 alone in that clip!


But I also think 90% of that video is pre AFCON - the Utd games is the only one I can see post then

[PaulF]

Some… he hasn’t been as good post injury … but when a player has a consistent level then dips post injury I’m going to injury first before age.

Possibly his age has slowed his recovery?
My guess would be Brentford set his injury back and he's playing with fear now.

[yes]

50 million? 😂 Yeah, double that at least. He's still world class, if someone wants him they have to pay top dollar.

So in the same contract situation he's worth more than prime Kane? Are you sure?

[Simplexity]

Would be very surprised if he sticks around another year. Think a change suits him, and possibly us, quite well this summer.

He is getting on and we are heading into a transition which could last any number of years.

[Haggis36]

Possibly his age has slowed his recovery?
My guess would be Brentford set his injury back and he's playing with fear now.

I'm sure there's research on it somewhere, but it always seems to me that when players reach their 30s it's the stops and starts that cause the issues as much as being overplayed/tired. Not just injuries, but breaks in play in general.

Like you're average 22-27 year old top level footballer goes off on their jollies at the end of the season, and let's say their fitness drops to 70% (or if you enjoy a Firmino-style off-season, maybe 50%). You come back for pre-season, work your way back up, and then early in the season you hit 100%. You'll start to drop as you get tired as the season wears on, but then you'll go on your summer holidays again, and the cycle repeats.

When you hit your 30s it feels like everytime you lose a bit of fitness it's harder to get it back, and you maybe don't even get all the way back to 100%. Maybe you drop to 60% in the off-season, but can only get back up to 90% when the season starts. Then you pick up an injury, and build your way back but max out at 85%. Then you take a break, lose some of your fitness, and this time can only build back to 80% after pre-season training. It's just harder and harder to pick the body up and go again at this age, and I imagine Salah is feeling it after what must be the worst injury of his Liverpool career.

It felt like it played out like that a bit with Henderson and Fabinho anyway, in the way they almost seemed to lose their legs overnight - they both showed signs of slowing down/increasing injury-proneness (in Henderson's case at least), but they went away for their break and came back in summer 2022 and just basically never got back to grips with the pace of the game ever again, and that was it.

I don't think this version of Salah is representative of his current true level, but I do wonder what his max % is, so to speak, as I'm not convinced it's a case of "rest up and go again" when players are this age.

[CS111]

The timing is right, new blood is needed in a few positions, technical players who can unlock packed defences would be a good start.
Anywhere near 100mil and id sell along with nunez and look for a new partnership.
I hope fsg are going to back the new manager or the tide could turn v v quickly

[TepidT2O]

Aye aye…. Another excellent player people have totally written off.

[mullyred94]

He WAS world class
He isnt world class now
He is miles off it

what sort of woodwork have you come out?

[spider-neil]

Would be very surprised if he sticks around another year. Think a change suits him, and possibly us, quite well this summer.

He is getting on and we are heading into a transition which could last any number of years.

He if sticks around another year he leaves on a free next summer.

[PhilV]

Jesus, he's not been helped by the other forwards this season has he.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1783461137628967108

That is a tough watch!!!

[Zlen]

Jesus, he's not been helped by the other forwards this season has he.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1783461137628967108

Nunez should be sold on basis of that video alone.
Some shocking misses from him, all following the same pattern - blast it like a donkey in general direction of the goal.

[Barryg21]

what sort of woodwork have you come out?

My boys love Salah, have his jersey etc
Just pointing out he is not world class anymore

Anyone who reads this thread now is saddened by the title - there was a multi year period he was legit contender for best player in the world
Now he shouldnt start on merit (and if Jota and Gakpo were back I would start them before him)

So I dont know how you can be still considered world class?

[jillcwhomever]

My boys love Salah, have his jersey etc
Just pointing out he is not world class anymore

Anyone who reads this thread now is saddened by the title - there was a multi year period he was legit contender for best player in the world
Now he shouldnt start on merit (and if Jota and Gakpo were back I would start them before him)

So I dont know how you can be still considered world class?

It's a title of the thread, which is about Salah's career as a whole at LFC, not just what he is now. Instead we get posts about him which are disrespectful from people who just cannot cope with the idea of us missing out on a league title.

[jillcwhomever]

Jonathan Northcroft
@JNorthcroft
·
1h
A bit bewildered at how Salah is having a "terrible season" when he has scored the same number of PL goals as Isak, who we can all agree is on fire. It's true he has toiled since Afcon but even by today's standards the narrative is a bit OTT.

[Barryg21]

It's a title of the thread, which is about Salah's career as a whole at LFC, not just what he is now. Instead we get posts about him which are disrespectful from people who just cannot cope with the idea of us missing out on a league title.

I think what people are saying, and certainly what I am feeling, isnt that we need to sell Mo as punishment for not winning the league. No one is banishing someone for being a naughty boy......
People are just saying, with one year left on his contract, do you sell him now for decent money and invest in his replacement for the next 5 years+
And before now, you would never say that as the drop off to his replacement was too big
But now, for the first time, you can see that maybe its in everyone's interests. And that done with the greatest respect, and to  cherish his legacy
Vs he stays on next yr, drop off continues which is a sad end for all parties  and he then goes for a free

[jillcwhomever]

I think what people are saying, and certainly what I am feeling, isnt that we need to sell Mo as punishment for not winning the league. No one is banishing someone for being a naughty boy......
People are just saying, with one year left on his contract, do you sell him now for decent money and invest in his replacement for the next 5 years+
And before now, you would never say that as the drop off to his replacement was too big
But now, for the first time, you can see that maybe its in everyone's interests. And that done with the greatest respect, and to  cherish his legacy
Vs he stays on next yr, drop off continues which is a sad end for all parties  and he then goes for a free

I understand the argument about the club having to considers its options with regard to Salah's contract, but I think there has been a lot of venting on a number of player's threads, due to the disappointment of how this season has ended. Of course there has been a downturn in his performances, as there has been elsewhere as well. We have a number of players into their 30's now, which we need to be planning for. I think it would be risky to get rid of them all, as this is a much younger team now. You need some experienced heads here, not least for how they galvanise the younger players. I imagine the likes of Danns has learnt a lot from how Salah has behaved professionally at the club. I just think the club has to change in a varied way rather than a huge way. There were talks after the last game of wholesome changes needed, which I don't agree with. That's why I think some people are letting their emotions talk for them as they are so disappointed in how this season has ended. I have always been of the opinion a finish in the top four and a cup win would have been a positive ending, considering where we started from at the beginning of this season.

[Circa1892]

Jonathan Northcroft
@JNorthcroft
·
1h
A bit bewildered at how Salah is having a "terrible season" when he has scored the same number of PL goals as Isak, who we can all agree is on fire. It's true he has toiled since Afcon but even by today's standards the narrative is a bit OTT.

He's come back unfit, has returned to "fitness" during his fasting period. He's not fallen off a cliff, he's having a rare out of form out of fitness patch. Whether he's the long term answer moving forward is unsure though.

[Fruity]

Salah is 32 in June. Up there as one of Liverpool's best. The attack of Mane, Firmino and Salah is probably 2nd place only to Barnes, Aldridge, Beardsley during my time.

But the issue isn't really Salah as such (apart from his shite performances since Afcon he is still our best attacker) it's our budgets and his age. He will need to be replaced soon. Maybe end of next season. So the big question is if someone offered 60-80 million now does it make sense to be purchasing his replacement and letting him go? If FSG were splashing the cash then maybe it would not be up for debate but we probably get an average of around 40 million net spend each year so that is not enough. Unless our transfer spend is going to change I can't see any other way forward other than selling.