Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé

[dimwit]

Just to be on the safe side of things, everybody here is signing for the 4-3-3 of 2021-2022 side, yes?

[BarryCrocker]

Under 20 World Cup starting later this week. Let's buy some kids!

Our scouts.

[classycarra]

Well, that doesn't look "on the left" to me ...

I'm not even sure what semantics you two are arguing over, but since you're doing heatmaps and arguing about left/LCM - here's ours from last few seasons (Thiago) for comparisons sake:

[Jwils21]

Just to be on the safe side of things, everybody here is signing for the 4-3-3 of 2021-2022 side, yes?

I’d personally like to see Mac Allister in the 2008 Gerrard role just off Torres Nunez

[G Richards]

I would be happy with two midfielders, Lavia and Caicedo.

Lavia, not ready for a regular first team starter in the 6 role, but there is still some life in Fabinho, and he can be the understudy, seeing action and bringing him through.

Caicedo as our main midfield signing, to be a fixture in the side. I would play him as an 8, on the right side to replace Henderson, who in turn reverts to the Milner role. Comes in, closes games out, starts occasionally, keeps standards up around the club, but not a main player any more.

Caicedo adds much needed athleticism. He is strong in the tackle too. He is also fast and covers a lot of ground. This will be important as Trent develops his playmaker role as an inverted right back. He has been so productive in that role in our winning run, and if we are to extrapolate that over a season it will be very special. The downside is a few more gaps opening up, but an athlete like Caicedo shuts the bulk of that down.

So for me, two midfielders. Lavia and Caicedo. (If Fabinho is departing, I would upgrade to Ugarte, who is ready now). But I am operating on the premise that Fabinho stays, there is still some life in the old dog, and Caicedo will be pricey, £80M or so. Hence the need for a young up and coming plus an expensive midfielder.

Add a central defender to Caicedo and Lavia, and we won’t look back.

Edit: obviously we are looking at lots of players, and it could easily be Ugarte and MacAllister, or Gravenberch, or Kone, or Thuram, etc.

But Lavia and Caicedo would be good.

[MBL?]

Mac Allister is todays Iniesta.

He’s a proper football player who makes his team better by playing the game at a level the players around don’t think of. He’s not the strongest, biggest or fastest but you can make a case that he’s been instrumental in Brightons recent rise and Argentina winning the World Cup.

[BarryCrocker]

For any of the Kalvin Phillips fans out there.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/kalvin-phillips-man-city-transfer-pep-guardiola-b2338917.html

[PeterTheRed ...]

I'm not even sure what semantics you two are arguing over, but since you're doing heatmaps and arguing about left/LCM - here's ours from last few seasons (Thiago) for comparisons sake:

Yes, as you can see, there is a difference between Mac Allister and Thiago ...

[cipher]

No, we don't. The 3rd midfielder would only take away the playing time from Jones, Elliott and Bajcetic. That money will be much better spent on a left sided central defender ...

Have you even watched us this year, of course we need at least 3 midfielders.  Ox, Keita, Milner are gone.  Fabinho played great today, but he has been a shadow of himself this year.  Henderson is a great captain, but the miles are catching up to him.  Thiago is injured 50% of the time. The young guns you mention (Jones, Elliott and Bajcetic) have had moments this year, but to think we should be relying on them to carry our midfield is madness. Ask yourself if any of the top 3-4 teams in England, Spain, Germany would be planning on starting those three and you'll have your answer.  Hopefully, they have an important part to play in our future, but we need serious reinforcements at the midfield position.

[spider-neil]

Have you even watched us this year, of course we need at least 3 midfielders.  Ox, Keita, Milner are gone.  Fabinho played great today, but he has been a shadow of himself this year.  Henderson is a great captain, but the miles are catching up to him.  Thiago is injured 50% of the time. The young guns you mention (Jones, Elliott and Bajcetic) have had moments this year, but to think we should be relying on them to carry our midfield is madness. Ask yourself if any of the top 3-4 teams in England, Spain, Germany would be planning on starting those three and you'll have your answer.  Hopefully, they have an important part to play in our future, but we need serious reinforcements at the midfield position.

To be fair, Jones is 22. The problem isn’t age or ability it’s availability.

[JerseyKloppite]

.
But Lavia and Caicedo would be good.

I think last summer this would have been perfect, but things have moved on significantly since then.

We're losing 3 first team midfielders this summer. Keita and Ox in particular are players that we would hope to be available to start games and play significant minutes, though obviously due to form and fitness their contributions have dwindled away to almost nil. And it's clear that we could have done with an extra first choice midfielder last summer, a need that has only grown as Fabinho's form has dropped off significantly and Thiago has spent more time in the physio room.

IF everything turns around next season - Fab rediscovers his form, Thiago stays fit, Bajectic / Elliot / Jones all kick on, then your pair of midfield signings would probably be sufficient. But that's a vast "IF" to me. We won't know until it's too late whether Thiago has recovered from his hip operation and whether Fabinho has got his mojo back. If they don't then bringing in Lavia as a key signing is a massive risk.

For me we need to sign two top class players we can plug into the side from day one, players who are as good as or better than our current first choice trio. Much as I love him to bits, we need to replace Thiago now, not in 12 months when his contract expires.

We're playing in Europe, we'll have plenty of games for everyone to get minutes. I'm not saying we shouldn't sign Lavia, he looks very talented. Just that if we do, he should be one of three mids we bring in, and if necessary we can loan Bajectic out for a year to get some regular first team football.

Not that we will, but if we had say:
Thiago, Hendo, Fabinho, Mac Allister, Mount, Lavia, Elliot and Jones as our midfield group next season, with Baj on loan, then when Thiago leaves we bring Bajectic back in... I feel we'd be far better placed to compete in 4 competitions.

Though still holding out hope we get Barella in

[PeterTheRed ...]

Have you even watched us this year

Not really. I don't watch any football. I only do computer games ...

[killer-heels]

I am not sure that Mac Allister does that role Jones is doing anywhere as good. Jones seems perfect for it, even the whole going out wide bit.

We have been linked to good players but I am still hoping for players of a higher class. If we somehow get CL football then that will become even more possible.

[MonsLibpool]

How similar is Mac Allister to Gini?

Not really similar. Gini is a lot stronger. Mac would be slightly more attack-minded.

[The G in Gerrard]

I am not sure that Mac Allister does that role Jones is doing anywhere as good. Jones seems perfect for it, even the whole going out wide bit.

We have been linked to good players but I am still hoping for players of a higher class. If we somehow get CL football then that will become even more possible.

Bellingham? 

Didn't they say after the game last night we are looking at more the number 10 type midfielder now hence MacAllister?

[Fordy]

I am not sure that Mac Allister does that role Jones is doing anywhere as good. Jones seems perfect for it, even the whole going out wide bit.

We have been linked to good players but I am still hoping for players of a higher class. If we somehow get CL football then that will become even more possible.

Mac Allister is a better player than Jones. Let’s not start kidding ourselves here but Jones could become better in years to come.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Look at it like will Jones stay fit all season? Do we need a better squad? Do we need better competition for places?

It’s not really about how you see the current team now. The squad have made hard work of things this season on a whole.

[RedG13]

I am not sure that Mac Allister does that role Jones is doing anywhere as good. Jones seems perfect for it, even the whole going out wide bit.

We have been linked to good players but I am still hoping for players of a higher class. If we somehow get CL football then that will become even more possible.

He super good at Protecting the ball and good at progressing the ball. Also good at helping creating shots. He seems to fit well with Jones to rotate with jones.
Need 4 MFers and need a replacement in the squad long term then thiago would rather do that a year early. Assuming his cost is closer to 50-60 would be fine with that considering that basically the new 30 mil.

[JackWard33]

Mac Allister is a better player than Jones.

It’s not clear that he is - and if he is it’s marginal. If you try and specify what he’s better at it’s tough - and they are decently similar
He’s way more available but that’s a different question

[PeterTheRed ...]

It’s not clear that he is - and if he is it’s marginal. If you try and specify what he’s better at it’s tough - and they are decently similar
He’s way more available but that’s a different question

Using your criteria, Elliott is better than Mount ...

[Draex]

The Klopp comments about this being the long term tactical plan and he's brought it forward due to our poor season.. Can certainly see why we are targetting Mount based on that, he'd be excellent in the "Henderson" role.

[PeterTheRed ...]

The Klopp comments about this being the long term tactical plan and he's brought it forward due to our poor season.. Can certainly see why we are targetting Mount based on that, he'd be excellent in the "Henderson" role.

He probably would be, shame that we won't sign him ...

[Aldo1988]

I would be happy with two midfielders, Lavia and Caicedo.

Lavia, not ready for a regular first team starter in the 6 role, but there is still some life in Fabinho, and he can be the understudy, seeing action and bringing him through.

Caicedo as our main midfield signing, to be a fixture in the side. I would play him as an 8, on the right side to replace Henderson, who in turn reverts to the Milner role. Comes in, closes games out, starts occasionally, keeps standards up around the club, but not a main player any more.

Caicedo adds much needed athleticism. He is strong in the tackle too. He is also fast and covers a lot of ground. This will be important as Trent develops his playmaker role as an inverted right back. He has been so productive in that role in our winning run, and if we are to extrapolate that over a season it will be very special. The downside is a few more gaps opening up, but an athlete like Caicedo shuts the bulk of that down.

So for me, two midfielders. Lavia and Caicedo. (If Fabinho is departing, I would upgrade to Ugarte, who is ready now). But I am operating on the premise that Fabinho stays, there is still some life in the old dog, and Caicedo will be pricey, £80M or so. Hence the need for a young up and coming plus an expensive midfielder.

Add a central defender to Caicedo and Lavia, and we won’t look back.

Edit: obviously we are looking at lots of players, and it could easily be Ugarte and MacAllister, or Gravenberch, or Kone, or Thuram, etc.

But Lavia and Caicedo would be good.

Do you get 50p every time you mention Lavia?

[RedG13]

Mac Allister is a better player than Jones. Let’s not start kidding ourselves here but Jones could become better in years to come.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Look at it like will Jones stay fit all season? Do we need a better squad? Do we need better competition for places?

It’s not really about how you see the current team now. The squad have made hard work of things this season on a whole.

The data not sure it does but regardless need multiple players for the MF considering the demands of the schedule.
Both are good.
Need 4 players for the MF roles outside of the 6.

[JackWard33]

Using your criteria, Elliott is better than Mount ...

Don’t know what criteria you mean or what the relevance of this is

[amir87]

He probably would be, shame that we won't sign him ...

A great man said the below 2 days ago and I believe him.


None of you knows how much we have to spend. None of you knows how much would certain players cost. In fact, none of you has the slightest idea who will we really sign.
And still, you keep arguing

[Barefoot Doctor]

I remain very excited by the possibility of Mount in that RCM spot. Big upgrade - in theory anyway.

[killer-heels]

Mac Allister is a better player than Jones. Let’s not start kidding ourselves here but Jones could become better in years to come.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Look at it like will Jones stay fit all season? Do we need a better squad? Do we need better competition for places?

It’s not really about how you see the current team now. The squad have made hard work of things this season on a whole.

Im not sure Mac Allister is better, certainly not what we are asking Jones to do. He presses the ball better, goes out wide and progresses it better.

[PeterTheRed ...]

A great man said the below 2 days ago and I believe him.


None of you knows how much we have to spend. None of you knows how much would certain players cost. In fact, none of you has the slightest idea who will we really sign.
And still, you keep arguing

I think that he will stay at Chelsea. And I was not arguing, I agree that he would be good in the new "Henderson" role ...

[DelTrotter]

I remain very excited by the possibility of Mount in that RCM spot. Big upgrade - in theory anyway.

Him getting us a CL place v Newcastle then signing a few days later would be the dream.

[Schmidt]

I don't really care if Mac Allister is better than Jones on current form or not, because Jones is superb, Mac Allister is pretty robust and we need to be able to rotate regularly without compromising on quality like we have for the past couple of seasons. That opinion might change if we sign him and then fail to improve other areas of the midfield, but for now I think having a few versatile midfielders who are press resistant and good at progressing the ball would be a huge step forward.

The only question is whether there are players out there who are better than our current targets and available, and I haven't really seen any evidence that there are.

[5-times-Phill]

A lot of people pointing out that we need three midfielders because Keita, Ox and Milner are all leaving (Arthur too I guess) but surely whoever we sign they’ll individually play more minutes than those 3 (4) combined? Not every person needs replacing, if anything it was the vast number of midfielders we had last summer that prevented us improving the quality and availability of the midfield, if you go by Klopp’s quotes at the time.

That’s not to say we don’t need three midfielders btw, but it won’t be to replace those three players or their roles in the squad, it would be to replace/compete with the roles currently performed by an aging Henderson, an injured Thiago and a struggling Fabinho.

Although Jones’ recent all action performances might make Thiago’s role obsolete.

[royhendo]

Klopp on Trent: we will have time next season to really work on his new position.”

I know I’m massively reading into this but I think we’re buying a RB. And if we do, I think it will be Timber.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/may/15/chelsea-victor-osimhen-napoli-mauricio-pochettino-mason-mount

Thanks for sharing this BD - very interesting indeed!

[JerseyKloppite]

A lot of people pointing out that we need three midfielders because Keita, Ox and Milner are all leaving (Arthur too I guess) but surely whoever we sign they’ll individually play more minutes than those 3 (4) combined? Not every person needs replacing, if anything it was the vast number of midfielders we had last summer that prevented us improving the quality and availability of the midfield, if you go by Klopp’s quotes at the time.

That’s not to say we don’t need three midfielders btw, but it won’t be to replace those three players or their roles in the squad, it would be to replace/compete with the roles currently performed by an aging Henderson, an injured Thiago and a struggling Fabinho.

Although Jones’ recent all action performances might make Thiago’s role obsolete.

I think you can make an argument that we never replaced Gini So that's one new mid, and arguably the one we needed last summer.

Then one to replace Naby, if you think that Jones and Elliot between them effectively replace Ox.

Then one coming in to replace Thiago as we start to phase him out.

[royhendo]

I’ve slotted Mac Allister into the Cazorla pigeon hole in my brain. Can do everything, isn’t the quickest, played a key marginal role in a World Cup win, ten yards quicker upstairs. Add in a Milner style ability to shithouse and that’s an appealing package to me.

[Fordy]

It’s not clear that he is - and if he is it’s marginal. If you try and specify what he’s better at it’s tough - and they are decently similar
He’s way more available but that’s a different question

Honestly, if I have to explain I can’t help you.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Honestly, if I have to explain I can’t help you.

This is always the easiest evasion tactic. 

[Fordy]

A lot of people pointing out that we need three midfielders because Keita, Ox and Milner are all leaving (Arthur too I guess) but surely whoever we sign they’ll individually play more minutes than those 3 (4) combined? Not every person needs replacing, if anything it was the vast number of midfielders we had last summer that prevented us improving the quality and availability of the midfield, if you go by Klopp’s quotes at the time.

That’s not to say we don’t need three midfielders btw, but it won’t be to replace those three players or their roles in the squad, it would be to replace/compete with the roles currently performed by an aging Henderson, an injured Thiago and a struggling Fabinho.

Although Jones’ recent all action performances might make Thiago’s role obsolete.

Well if we want to compete in the league next year playing on a Thursday and Sunday (as at moment a EL spot still looks more likely) then we need to beef our squad up with quality. Yes, the likes of Clark, Doak, Gordon etc will get minutes in the EL but we want to challenge for the league.

Losing Keita, Milner, Ox. That’s losing quality players who all need replacing. We need players that can give competition.

We do need 2/3 midfielders this season. Yes, great we doing well now but the season from a midfield point of view hasn’t been good enough.

[ScouserAtHeart]

I’ve slotted Mac Allister into the Cazorla pigeon hole in my brain. Can do everything, isn’t the quickest, played a key marginal role in a World Cup win, ten yards quicker upstairs. Add in a Milner style ability to shithouse and that’s an appealing package to me.

Sounds a lot like David Silva there

[PeterTheRed ...]

I’ve slotted Mac Allister into the Cazorla pigeon hole in my brain. Can do everything, isn’t the quickest, played a key marginal role in a World Cup win, ten yards quicker upstairs. Add in a Milner style ability to shithouse and that’s an appealing package to me.

"Package" being the key word when it comes to Mac Allister. I can understand why so many posters can't see his true value (I wasn't seeing it either, until we were linked with him, and I started watching him more carefully), since he is one of those "jack of all trades, master of none" players that every manager absolutely loves having ...

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Well, that doesn't look "on the left" to me ...

Pointless Peter. Regardless of heat maps, everyone has a position (or a starting position) on the pitch, and Mac Allister's has predominately been LCM. Otherwise you would say he plays as a big red blob.