Topic: Loan Watch 2018-2019

[Coolie High]

Wilson was very average yesterday watched him but Derby are a horrible side I’m surprised he scored so many for them. Literally long ball merchants. Would sell to be honest.

What’s that got to do with Wilson then?

[Coolie High]

Kelly and Spearing? Dark days...

Academy players becoming regulars is such a rarity it's hard to draw many conclusions, but it does seem like going on loan is a bit of a death knell.

Out of all the young attackers we had a few years ago I thought Ojo and Wilson were the two most likely to make it. Wilson is doing well in the championship but it sounds like he's performing a bit like Shaqiri, in that he drifts in and out of games and occasionally comes up with a moment of magic. Given Shaqiri can't get a regular place in the squad would it make sense to also have Wilson in the squad next season? We've seen how some managers don't trust loan signings over their own players so it could be difficult to loan him out to a premier league team, so I'm wondering if it would be best to sell him now while his stock is high but with a buy-back clause, that gives him some time to settle at a squad and play regularly while giving us a chance to bring him back.

I think Grujic might come back next season too and back up Fabinho, now that Henderson has been playing higher up the pitch.

It’s common sense he would drift out of games, the team has no style of play and frankly fail to transition the ball to their forwards well, which is one of the reasons Wilson played in midfield for them, for the first time in his career, people need to have a bit more nous when judging players especially when not at top clubs.

Phase of play, poetry in motion, yorky posters I respect have pretty much all sod the same thing, so I would agree with them also if I was to have a shot in the dark.

[Schmidt]

It’s common sense he would drift out of games, the team has no style of play and frankly fail to transition the ball to their forwards well, which is one of the reasons Wilson played in midfield for them, for the first time in his career, people need to have a bit more nous when judging players especially when not at top clubs.

Phase of play, poetry in motion, yorky posters I respect have pretty much all sod the same thing, so I would agree with them also if I was to have a shot in the dark.

Like I said he was one of the players I thought most likely to make it in the youth teams. It's a fair point on the way Derby play, but given how we like to have lots of pace out wide to run in behind I think that leaves Wilson as a midfield option, when we already have a huge amount of depth there.

Fabinho, Henderson, Grujic, Milner, Gini, Keita, Shaqiri, AoC, Lallana

I just don't see how he fits, you'd expect most of the above to get a decent number of games, with the exception of Lallana who may move on and possibly Grujic going on loan, and most of those players would expect to play in midfield.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see him get a chance, it's just hard to see that happening with the level we're at unless he has a great season elsewhere at premier league level first.

[soxfan]

Grujic header at 1:10 in Hertha's win yesterday.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/eT5JPDN2mD0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/eT5JPDN2mD0</a>

[tubby]

Think Kent's got more chance of a future at the club than Wilson does, in all honesty.

Good pace, two footed, works hard. Obviously you need that bit extra, but I'd be happy if we gave him a chance.

You can't judge players in the Scottish league, Wilson is playing in a much tougher competition.  I'd love Kent to make it with us because I'm a huge mark for genuinely two-footed players, but I would be amazed if we didn't sell him this summer.  He's got the potential to be a decent player but he's really inconsistent and needs a lot more first-team football with this stage before we'd even consider him in the team.

[Gerswatch]

You can't judge players in the Scottish league, Wilson is playing in a much tougher competition.  I'd love Kent to make it with us because I'm a huge mark for genuinely two-footed players, but I would be amazed if we didn't sell him this summer.  He's got the potential to be a decent player but he's really inconsistent and needs a lot more first-team football with this stage before we'd even consider him in the team.

I think the main issue with Kent that will stop him making it at a higher level is his final decision making at times. Seen evidence of it again today where he gets a ball played to him in the opposition box in plenty of space. Instead of just taking the ball and hitting a shot he tried some strange back heel flick that ended up with him losing it.

[phil236849]

Wilson was very average yesterday watched him but Derby are a horrible side I’m surprised he scored so many for them. Literally long ball merchants. Would sell to be honest.

He really wasn’t.  He was Derby’s main creative force and set up the penno they should have got, which he would have no doubt scored.  Sometimes I wonder if people expect Messi II

[christofu]

He really wasn’t.  He was Derby’s main creative force and set up the penno they should have got, which he would have no doubt scored.  Sometimes I wonder if people expect Messi II

Agreed I thought he was pretty good yesterday. Its hard to assess how he would fit in with us as Derby don't remotely play the same brand of football so just Looking forward to seeing him in pre-season 

[Too early for flapjacks?]

I don't think there is a single player out on loan who will return and be a member of the first team squad. But we'll make some decent money through sales.

[Schmidt]

I don't think there is a single player out on loan who will return and be a member of the first team squad. But we'll make some decent money through sales.

Not sure that's totally true, Grujic would offer some depth behind Fabinho and allow Henderson to continue to play higher up the pitch. That could leave our midfield a bit heavy on numbers, but I imagine AoC will take a long time to get back up to speed and we'll rotate a bunch.

[GucciMane]

He really wasn’t.  He was Derby’s main creative force and set up the penno they should have got, which he would have no doubt scored.  Sometimes I wonder if people expect Messi II

like I said derby got bossed in possession for the whole game at home. It’s more of a lampard dig then a Wilson criticism. Hopefully he makes it here.

[GucciMane]

What’s that got to do with Wilson then?

nothing really just shocked by the standard of the championship outside the top 4 spot. More of a clueless Lampard thought behind that post.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

Not sure that's totally true, Grujic would offer some depth behind Fabinho and allow Henderson to continue to play higher up the pitch. That could leave our midfield a bit heavy on numbers, but I imagine AoC will take a long time to get back up to speed and we'll rotate a bunch.

I don't think you'd ever see Grujic play as the 6 for us. For some reason Warnock played him there for Cardiff but at Hertha he plays alongside a midfielder who is more defensive. When he's played for us it's been a more attacking role. There are two other midfield spots and he’d have to picked ahead of Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Ox, Milner and likely a high profile summer signing.

Unless early and substantial offers come in for the like of Grujic and Wilson I expect them to be there on the first day of pre-season. But come the start of the season I’d be surprised if they had not moved somewhere permanently or on loan.

[Tobelius]

I don't think you'd ever see Grujic play as the 6 for us. For some reason Warnock played him there for Cardiff but at Hertha he plays alongside a midfielder who is more defensive. When he's played for us it's been a more attacking role. There are two other midfield spots and he’d have to picked ahead of Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Ox, Milner and likely a high profile summer signing.

Unless early and substantial offers come in for the like of Grujic and Wilson I expect them to be there on the first day of pre-season. But come the start of the season I’d be surprised if they had not moved somewhere permanently or on loan.

Skjelbred?
Grujic's defensive stats were a lot better than his,in fact better than any cm they have as well as winning over 3 headers/game and scoring 1 in 4.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

Skjelbred?
Grujic's defensive stats were a lot better than his,in fact better than any cm they have as well as winning over 3 headers/game and scoring 1 in 4.

Most recently yes, Skjelbred.

Not surprised his stats are better because he is better than any of the other CMs there. But that's not saying much. If you look at the heat maps of Grujic and his midfield partner I'm sure they will show that he plays slightly higher up the pitch. He's never looked to me as someone who has the defensive intelligence to play as the deepest midfielder. I don't think he's a viable backup to Fabinho but if he comes back to pre-season and is looking as good or better than the players I mentioned above in training then maybe he'll be seen an option as the 8. But personally I think our squad and our aspirations have evolved faster than he has.

[Tobelius]

Most recently yes, Skjelbred.

Not surprised his stats are better because he is better than any of the other CMs there. But that's not saying much. If you look at the heat maps of Grujic and his midfield partner I'm sure they will show that he plays slightly higher up the pitch. He's never looked to me as someone who has the defensive intelligence to play as the deepest midfielder. I don't think he's a viable backup to Fabinho but if he comes back to pre-season and is looking as good or better than the players I mentioned above in training then maybe he'll be seen an option as the 8. But personally I think our squad and our aspirations have evolved faster than he has.

I guess we'll be a lot wiser come august,i'd like to see him stay,you don't.

[BrandoLFC]

I haven't watch Grujic at Hertha so maybe he's improved a lot but for me he's an 8.  In no way do you want him playing a 6 in our system, his passing is no where near good enough.

[Crouch Potato]

I think the main problem with Grujic for next season is that he has been playing every game in the Bundesliga, so it's hard to imagine that he would be happy to come back just to mainly warm the bench.

[hesbighesred]

I haven't watch Grujic at Hertha so maybe he's improved a lot but for me he's an 8.  In no way do you want him playing a 6 in our system, his passing is no where near good enough.

According to whoscored - admittedly not the best source - he's got a lower passing success rate than Fabinho (81% to 85%) but also scores more highly for key passes per game and scores more - which suggests that he's either playing the role more riskily or not playing as a lone DM. But certainly from what I've seen and heard of him he has no technical weaknesses there, passing is one of his strengths.

It also looks like he's making a lot of tackles and interceptions alongside that good offensive play, as well as being aerially dominant.

That's what I find intriguing about him - no, he's not the finished article yet but in terms of his attribute set he's an incredibly complete player. The only thing he doesn't really have is pace, but then neither does Fabinho. He's tall, dangerous in the air, an accomplished passer and seems increasingly able to use his physicality to win the ball. On top of that, he's got a very good shot - probably better than anyone else in our midfield at the moment. So physically and perhaps technically he's got the attributes to be able to dominate his zone, the kind of player who can, if he's able to use those attributes and if he has the tactical ability, give us a solid platform in both directions.

Moreover, he's young enough and coming from a situation where he'd likely to be happy with a solid squad role which, frankly, is all he's going to get right now with Fabinho as our 6, and with Henderson a) likely to lose his physical gifts in the coming years b) having played very well in a more advanced role c) likely to be needed at RB cover and d) needing very careful management of his minutes anyway then it might just be the perfect time for Grujic to get a chance to see what he can do here.

That said, he had a horrible injury this year and is also an absolute mainstay of that Hertha side, there's not necessarily an urgent rush to either bring him back or sell him when he's actually developing very well in a stable environment in exactly the position we'd want him to learn better.

[Dim Glas]

I just think it goes one of two ways with Grujic, either he's here for pre-season, and remains a squad player next season to see how that works out. Or he's sold this summer. I don't think he returns for another loan anywhere. Hertha will have a new coach next season too (Ante Covic), Pal Dardai, a big champion and fan of Marko's, is leaving.

[Tobelius]

I just think it goes one of two ways with Grujic, either he's here for pre-season, and remains a squad player next season to see how that works out. Or he's sold this summer. I don't think he returns for another loan anywhere. Hertha will have a new coach next season too (Ante Covic), Pal Dardai, a big champion and fan of Marko's, is leaving.

Yep,i think that's the situation with Wilson as well.

Both have had multiple loans and aren't kids anymore,time to make a decision and i think we will.

[jlb]

Has there been any of our acedemy guys go out on loan, come back and become a regular in the first team?

Jordon Ibe? Loaned out twice, and subsequently made several appearances for us before being sold.

[newterp]

Jordon Ibe? Loaned out twice, and subsequently made several appearances for us before being sold.

Had a great turn and scored in his last game here if I recall, then was promptly sold.

[daggerdoo]

Had a great turn and scored in his last game here if I recall, then was promptly sold.

But, for a decent amount of dosh.

[rocco]

I just think it goes one of two ways with Grujic, either he's here for pre-season, and remains a squad player next season to see how that works out. Or he's sold this summer. I don't think he returns for another loan anywhere. Hertha will have a new coach next season too (Ante Covic), Pal Dardai, a big champion and fan of Marko's, is leaving.

Pal Dardai Isn’t leaving but strangely staying as a youth coach

[newterp]

But, for a decent amount of dosh.

rightfully sold I should have stated

[rowan_d]

Wilson just scored a penalty to put Derby ahead in the playoff semi-final.

[David Struhme]

Wilson is quality, far too good for the championship. We could do a lot worse than keeping him here next season as cover for the front 3

[Crouch Potato]

Wilson just scored a penalty to put Derby ahead in the playoff semi-final.

He was heavily involved in 2 of the goals too.

[phil236849]

He was heavily involved in 2 of the goals too.

They just said on Sky that he shows all the signs of being a top player
All good big game experience

[Raid]

I’m a big fan of Wilson and have been tracking his progress over his two loan spells.

For me he’s clearly talented enough to be in our squad. Mo and Mane are not two players you want to rest much but they are not machines and it would do us no harm to have Wilson available as an option too.

It’s a big pre season for him. If Derby come up it would make sense to give him a years Premier League football there but if not I’d certainly take a look at bringing him in as a squad option

[rowan_d]

Won't pretend I've watched a lot of Derby this season, but from today's match I could see what people are talking about with how he struggles to be a constant presence in the match. He has fantastic ability when he has the ball, enough that he should be looking to be on it as often as possible. Hopefully a coaching or positional issue that is easily improved.

Looking forward to seeing how he performs in the final and in preseason.

[Yorkykopite]

Won't pretend I've watched a lot of Derby this season, but from today's match I could see what people are talking about with how he struggles to be a constant presence in the match. He has fantastic ability when he has the ball, enough that he should be looking to be on it as often as possible. Hopefully a coaching or positional issue that is easily improved.

Put him in a better team and judge him then.

Derby aren’t terrible but it was frustrating to see how easily they squandered possession of the ball, especially the full backs. Decisions were always a fraction too late as well. Where Liverpool players get the ball to Salah or Mane early the Derby lads check and then it’s too late. I watched Wilson closely last night because that was the most interesting part of the game for me. He was constantly moving and taking up great positions, but the ball rarely came.  After a while you realised it wasn’t going to come.

[exiledinyorkshire]

I watched both championship play off second legs and thought Wilson was at the same level as Grealish.

Don't know what that means but that's what I thought.

[Fordy]

I watched both championship play off second legs and thought Wilson was at the same level as Grealish.

Don't know what that means but that's what I thought.

He's younger and better than Grealish.

[thaddeus]

I watched both championship play off second legs and thought Wilson was at the same level as Grealish.

Don't know what that means but that's what I thought.

The whole two times I've watched Villa this season they've given Grealish an entirely free role.  He's not so good that any Premier League team would accommodate him like that - it's even contentious when the likes of Hazard are exempted from the team ethos.

I've watched Derby a bit more as my brother-in-law is a died-in-the-wool Derby fan and Wilson is tactically good.  As somebody else pointed out further up he has good movement off the ball.  I don't think it's any coincidence that his form dipped when Mount was injured and he was relying on Bradley Johnson or Huddlestone to play quick, incisive passes through the midfield.

If we didn't have Shaqiri - in many ways the Premier League hardened, internationally experienced version of Wilson - I think he'd have a chance.  But we do have Shaqiri and even he was very much bit-part in the run-in.

[Coolie High]

Grealish was wanted heavily by Spurs last season, and he would fit in because he has work rate to go with his technical ability, Maddison played a free role for Norwich and has had no problem fitting into Leicester for example. Both of those two plus Wilson and Brooks all have the talent to play for a top 4-6 side in my opinion.

[PoetryInMotion]

The whole two times I've watched Villa this season they've given Grealish an entirely free role.  He's not so good that any Premier League team would accommodate him like that - it's even contentious when the likes of Hazard are exempted from the team ethos.

I've watched Derby a bit more as my brother-in-law is a died-in-the-wool Derby fan and Wilson is tactically good.  As somebody else pointed out further up he has good movement off the ball.  I don't think it's any coincidence that his form dipped when Mount was injured and he was relying on Bradley Johnson or Huddlestone to play quick, incisive passes through the midfield.

If we didn't have Shaqiri - in many ways the Premier League hardened, internationally experienced version of Wilson - I think he'd have a chance.  But we do have Shaqiri and even he was very much bit-part in the run-in.

The thing is that it is for Shaqiri for whom that role which he was given seems bit part, because he is an important player of their international side. But give that same 'bit part' role to Wilson and it would be most likely that he'd be fine with it. Wilson has fantastic link-up plays, I've seen him play really good through balls apart from his shots (having scored so many, he also hit the wood-work plenty of times). If he keeps that rate up, he'd be fantastic player even in the top flight. The problem is that Derby players around him can be a bit behind on game intelligence, they don't use him as well as they should. Also, Wilson spoke in an interview about how Lampard spoke him to do the David Silva role, playing deeper in midfield, just recycling the ball and that even lighter players can show their strength by shielding the ball with their body and stuff (basically also the Wijnaldum role). That coincides with his output declining during the middle 2-3 months in the season where he was asked to do stuff tactically that was completely new to him.

Now, he has more experience for all of that.

As for Shaqiri, I think it would be better to see what happens. We will surely not get any information on what happened when his role became lesser and lesser beyond December. Was it just an injury, or were there other problems. Whether we keep him or not, will depend on that and that information is only with Klopp and maybe his staff.

[Magix]

Saw the playoff highlights and thought it was an assured and mature performance from young Harry in such an important game. Would be a win all round if he stays on as squad player - we save on transfer fees, get another academy/homegrown player in, gives a big up to the academy and other youth prospects.

[phil236849]

The thing is that it is for Shaqiri for whom that role which he was given seems bit part, because he is an important player of their international side. But give that same 'bit part' role to Wilson and it would be most likely that he'd be fine with it. Wilson has fantastic link-up plays, I've seen him play really good through balls apart from his shots (having scored so many, he also hit the wood-work plenty of times). If he keeps that rate up, he'd be fantastic player even in the top flight. The problem is that Derby players around him can be a bit behind on game intelligence, they don't use him as well as they should. Also, Wilson spoke in an interview about how Lampard spoke him to do the David Silva role, playing deeper in midfield, just recycling the ball and that even lighter players can show their strength by shielding the ball with their body and stuff (basically also the Wijnaldum role). That coincides with his output declining during the middle 2-3 months in the season where he was asked to do stuff tactically that was completely new to him.

Now, he has more experience for all of that.

As for Shaqiri, I think it would be better to see what happens. We will surely not get any information on what happened when his role became lesser and lesser beyond December. Was it just an injury, or were there other problems. Whether we keep him or not, will depend on that and that information is only with Klopp and maybe his staff.

The noises were that Klopp found him defensively unreliable.  I remember there was a match when he came on as a sub and did well, but Klopp thought the team lost defensive shape.