Topic: FSG discussion thread

[So… Howard Philips]

There is no way FSG operates at this level of nearsightedness. This has probably been a foregone conclusion since the ESL was stopped.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about the ESL and the inevitability of the Saudi funded Newcastle taking another CL place probably made it clear that their model would no longer work.

[24/7]

It’s just funny how people on here keep threatening to stop supporting the club because they have some owners they don’t like.  It’s all attention seeking nonsense - we all know that none of them would walk away from the club, it is too much a part of their life.

Wow - I really don't know where to start with that massively condescending rant other than to say this publicly - cos I don't do "virtue signalling".

The day LFC sells to a regime like Saudi Arabia is the day I walk away. Full stop. Not because I'm fucking racist towards all Saudi Arabians but because my fucking principles override my loyalty to a football club. Every day of the week. You won't see me for dust. And that's a promise. And the saddest part of it is that absolute whoppers like you will become their fan base. Good luck mate.

I'm too tired and old for this shit. Fighting G&H, fighting SYP, fighting our own fucking government, fighting to protect the environment, fighting to protect our borders against fascists when there's already too many inside......I'm tired of fighting......

Life's too fucking short lads.

(Great post as usual by SoS, so much to resonate with. I'm just tired of it all.)

[crewlove]

Uncertainty reigns at Liverpool with Julian Ward and head of data on way out

James Pearce
Nov 24, 2022

It has not all been plain sailing. Liverpool were dealing with a midfield injury crisis in August and FSG was reluctant to commit significant funds, so Ward ended up signing Juventus’ Arthur on loan on deadline day as a stop-gap. The Brazilian wasn’t fully fit when he arrived and played just 13 minutes of first-team football before undergoing surgery after tearing a thigh muscle in training.

https://theathletic.com/3932915/2022/11/24/liverpool-julian-ward-fsg/

If we are to believe what Pearce says (we all know our journos and their constant fight for PR) how does this part connect to our pursuit of Tchouameni? Do we believe that it was either him or nobody else or we were not ready to sign him at all.

Or after Tchouameni failed we changed focus to Darwin.

[Fiasco]

Klopp might feel that the base of his team is set in the relatively long-term. Alisson, the full backs, Konate and VVD (perhaps some question marks regarding Matip's longevity and Gomez' form but I think Klopp has their trust).

Then with our forward line you have Nunez, Salah is 30 admittedly but is still strong as ever and is tied down, Jota is a key player if we keep him fit, Diaz hasn't been here a year yet and Bobby is an older, experienced head to keep around if he stays. The issue is the midfield, but we already know that. The squad doesn't need massive surgery, I think many of the parts are in place. We do though need several key signings, especially in the midfield. Klopp might just want to oversee that himself.

[FLRed67]

Many have walked away. Others will over the course of time.

The big money sports events and leagues are no longer “sports”. They are systems for money laundering. (In case you were wondering why the last Olympic Games went ahead .   .    .)

The term “sportswashing” is anodyne and conveniently euphemistic; it serves to distract attention from the reality of what actually happening, and the suffering. Suffice to say, the media is deeply implicated in it all.

I remember as a child, how much the World Cup meant. Now I couldn’t give a f&ck.

That world is gone.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Like I said in the Manc thread, I'd fight, I fucking fought to get rid of H&G when I had a new baby born the same day I was pounding out emails, but the Saudis are a different beast. Money is no object, so they can't be hit in the pockets. Protest in the ground? They cancel your ST and ban you for life, if they want us for their long term financial plans, the 55,000 in the ground mean nothing to them compared to the TV money and the sales around the world.

We will deal with it when if happens mate,there's no point us getting wound up and depressed now,life is shit enough as it is.

The difference between us and those Geordie pricks is that we won't be bending over backwards and protesting that they should be allowed to buy us.

If it comes to it,it wouldn't take many to block all access to all the turnstiles.

[Simplexity]

Many have walked away. Others will over the course of time.

The big money sports events and leagues are no longer “sports”. They are systems for money laundering. (In case you were wondering why the last Olympic Games went ahead .   .    .)

The term “sportswashing” is anodyne and conveniently euphemistic; it serves to distract attention from the reality of what actually happening, and the suffering. Suffice to say, the media is deeply implicated in it all.

I remember as a child, how much the World Cup meant. Now I couldn’t give a f&ck.

That world is gone.

Don't understand how it is money laundering. Why would a state need to launder money?

[kasperoff]

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but its a pretty absurd one. Imagine being a director of football or whatever Wards title is and going 'Shit we're 8 points off 3rd place after 14 games, with a game in hand, and still in every competition....best hand my notice in'. Its ridiculous. As is thinking FSG would be triggered to sell because they dont want to fund a rebuild, considering the 'rebuild' is more like signing two or three players. There's clearly far bigger things going on, whether they've just decided its a good time to sell, whether they're all collectively sick at the sportswashing (or have had their heads turned by the prospect of selling to one), whether they're wanting to buy an NBA or NFL team and can't realistically 'afford' both.

It's bigger picture stuff and a combination of factors. They'll have come to realise that longer term, they can't compete with the spending of Man City, and now Newcastle. It we say Man CIty and Newcastle are now nailed on top 4, then the rest are fighting over 2 places and there is far more chance of missing out. Multiple years out of the CL, and funding the club would become very difficult for FSG.

They have probably got the club to the highest value they can. There is no way FSG can sweat the asset any more than they have whilst also properly taking care of the squad. The only way is down in terms of valuation under FSG. Especially if they start missing out on CL qualification (see above).

It's also reasonable to expect that they are far more interested in US sports, than football. From an interest point of view, they simply know and like Basketball and Baseball more. Crucially, US sport also have a modicum of control over spending, which we know they favour.

And let's be honest, the PL is heading for meltdown. If I was FSG, I'd probably also be looking to sell. I don't trust the PL or the FA as far as I could throw them. They have lost control.

[So… Howard Philips]

Many have walked away. Others will over the course of time.

The big money sports events and leagues are no longer “sports”. They are systems for money laundering. (In case you were wondering why the last Olympic Games went ahead .   .    .)

The term “sportswashing” is anodyne and conveniently euphemistic; it serves to distract attention from the reality of what actually happening. Suffice to say, the media is deeply implicated in it all.

I remember as a child, how much the World Cup meant. Now I couldn’t give a f&ck.

That world is gone.

The World Cup in 1978 was held in Argentine ruled by a military junta who killed thousands of political opponents and who only lost power after they rashly invaded the Falklands.

I don’t suppose any on here remember the original sports wash extravaganza in Berlin 1936.

[rob1966]

The World Cup in 1978 was held in Argentine ruled by a military junta who killed thousands of political opponents and who only lost power after they rashly invaded the Falklands.

I don’t suppose any on here remember the original sports wash extravaganza in Berlin 1936.

Watched the first half an hour of that Netflix Documentary on FIFA last night - fuck me I didn't realise just how far back the corruption went. I was only 11 when the 78 World Cup was held and had no idea of what was going on in Argentina with the Military Junta. Explains why Qatar got the world cup and just how much money in bribes these greedy c*nts took and why the game is now fucked.

They even called the Berlin Olympics the very first sportswash event 

[mickeydocs]

We only just surpassed them in revenue after a huge level of success and them being shit for almost a decade. Once/if they get their house in order, they can surpass us in revenue once again.

We also have room for growth. Stadium extension. Nike deal kicking in.
Our brand is on the up and has access to a global support that only Madrid, Barca and United can match.
Also no guarantee Utd get their house in order. If FSG has invested we could have retained our title and wouldn't be in the mess we are in right now.

LFC will match Utd in the long term as long as success is sustained No reason to think otherwise.

More than anything else we have a world class manager. Hopefully he will receive the funding to create the rebuild of Klopp 2.0.

[ScouserAtHeart]

I don’t suppose any on here remember the original sports wash extravaganza in Berlin 1936.

Neville: "You have to choose whether you stay at home and do nothing or go over there and try and get the fuhrer to change his beliefs by talking about how things are"

[FLRed67]

Don't understand how it is money laundering. Why would a state need to launder money?

"States" are among the biggest, if not the biggest, money launderers.

[mickeydocs]

"States" are among the biggest, if not the biggest, money launderers.

Look up the Yakuza. Even the Japanese allow organised crime and significant money laundering: https://orgcrime.tripod.com/japeconomy.htm

[Qston]

The World Cup in 1978 was held in Argentine ruled by a military junta who killed thousands of political opponents and who only lost power after they rashly invaded the Falklands.

I don’t suppose any on here remember the original sports wash extravaganza in Berlin 1936.

Yeah, but what about us buying nike gear ? 

[Dench57]

Saudi Arabia buy Liverpool and United and merge the two great clubs. We'd surely be able to get Bellingham then

[rafathegaffa83]

They probably are to be honest but anyone who buys them will have to spend an awful lot upgrading their stadium. They also want to move to a new training facility.

Our situation doesn't need for us to move training facilities nor update the stadium too much.

Could easily be £1 billion in savings there alone for a prospective buyer if they had to replace Old Trafford. Not to mention the likely higher price for Man Utd

[rob1966]

Yeah, but what about us buying nike gear ? 

Have to send my Hugo Boss suit back (hate the smell of the aftershave)

[rob1966]

Could easily be £1 billion in savings there alone for a prospective buyer if they had to replace Old Trafford. Not to mention the likely higher price for Man Utd

Money isn't an issue for the Saudis. The Public Investment Fund has about £492 billion in it.

[FLRed67]

The World Cup in 1978 was held in Argentine ruled by a military junta who killed thousands of political opponents and who only lost power after they rashly invaded the Falklands.

I don’t suppose any on here remember the original sports wash extravaganza in Berlin 1936.

1936 and 1978 were amateur hour compared to what is going on today. The number killed by the junta in Argentina in 12 years is less than the number killed every two or three months in the US just from fentanyl.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

1936 and 1978 were amateur hour compared to what is going on today. The number killed by the junta in Argentina in 12 years is less than the number killed every two or three months in the US just from fentanyl.

Leave it out man.

[rob1966]

1936 and 1978 were amateur hour compared to what is going on today. The number killed by the junta in Argentina in 12 years is less than the number killed every two or three months in the US just from fentanyl.

What the fuck has that got to do with murderous regimes and sportswashing?

[Sheer Magnetism]

I've said how I feel several times, most recently in the Newcastle match preview. I'm on board with any fight to stop our club being owned by monsters. If it comes to that, I'll walk away, from supporting Liverpool and most likely from watching football. It would be meaningless.

Because for me, it would be relatively easy to let go. I haven't paid much if any attention to this World Cup - and I love the World Cup. I haven't bought any gear since Nike started making it. You can be in love with someone and expect to spend your life with them, but if they do something genuinely horrible they become a different person in your eyes. This is how I see this potential situation. If the club gets taken over by a Saudi state-backed consortium it would cease to be Liverpool, it would just be an empty sports brand. I can't control that, but I can control my reaction to it and that reaction would be to withdraw.

I could probably just about live with Apple.

[Mister Flip Flop]

It’s just funny how people on here keep threatening to stop supporting the club because they have some owners they don’t like.  It’s all attention seeking nonsense - we all know that none of them would walk away from the club, it is too much a part of their life.

Worst still we know it’s all virtue signalling - people on here saying such things reek of hypocrisy. Throwing around words like sportswashing, like they even have a clue about what’s going on in the world.  Somehow trying to feel superior.

It was only at the start of the millennium that the UK armed forces even allowed openly gay people to be in its services - where were these people then with their protests of human rights ? 

If people genuinely feel that resentful of human rights abuses to the point they would stop supporting a club ingrained in their DNA, I would expect that passionate defence of human rights to exist in most basic aspects of their lives but they don’t. 

The problem with people in the main is they jump on bandwagons with a very shallow understanding. Remember green fell, clap for the NHS etc. People soon forgot once the media stopped talking about it.  It gets tedious to keep seeing the virtue signalling and melodramatic actions of posters in response.

I’m sure people on here will twist my words, that’s just what forums do, but spend 2 mins now researching where Nike replica shirts come from, and then come back and talk to me about how passionate you really all are about human rights.

All BS and only being mentioned because the media have spoon fed you to say it.

What a load of nonsense. I've walked away from jobs and friends over my principles and moral beliefs. If you think i won't walk away from the club if someone like who owns City or Newcastle take over then you are wrong. How do you know the moral fibre of posters on here to make shit statements like the above?

[DonkeyWan]

If Saudi Arabia take over Liverpool I, like many others on here have said, will be suspending my support for the club until such time as more acceptable owners come in. It's not just about opposition to a regime with a terrible record of criminality (because that route only leads to tit-for-tat whataboutery) it's because I don't want to become a part of an active political campaign to uphold that criminality which is what sportswashing is all about. All those City and Newcastle fans waving that away as some sort of big joke while revelling in the tainted success of their teams are useful idiots that help sportswashing succeed.

The thing is, I am sure there were many principled City and Newcastle fans that quietly stepped away, but their anxiety was lost amongst the general gid that surrounded the takeovers, the hilarious sights of mancs and geordies with towels on their heads. Liverpool fans mustn't allow that to happen, there must be demonstrations and protests stating how upset the fanbase is, if it comes to pass that Saudi Arabia or its equivalent look like taking over the club. If you are truly a fan of LFC and believe in what it stands for, you must show your opposition. To do otherwise is to admit it doesn't matter who you suppport as long as they are winning.

[24/7]

What a load of nonsense. I've walked away from jobs and friends over my principles and moral beliefs. If you think i won't walk away from the club if someone like who owns City or Newcastle take over then you are wrong. How do you know the moral fibre of posters on here to make shit statements like the above?

He's the future, mate

[WhereAngelsPlay]

What a load of nonsense. I've walked away from jobs and friends over my principles and moral beliefs. If you think i won't walk away from the club if someone like who owns City or Newcastle take over then you are wrong. How do you know the moral fibre of posters on here to make shit statements like the above?

Don't bite,the prick was chatting shit right up to his bedtime,that's when Daddy turns his internet access off.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Don't bite,the prick was chatting shit right up to his bedtime,that's when Daddy turns his internet access off.

I hear you but it's hard to sit on the fence and say nowt in the face of someone chatting utter bollox.

[Qston]

If Saudi Arabia take over Liverpool I, like many others on here have said, will be suspending my support for the club until such time as more acceptable owners come in. It's not just about opposition to a regime with a terrible record of criminality (because that route only leads to tit-for-tat whataboutery) it's because I don't want to become a part of an active political campaign to uphold that criminality which is what sportswashing is all about. All those City and Newcastle fans waving that away as some sort of big joke while revelling in the tainted success of their teams are useful idiots that help sportswashing succeed.

The thing is, I am sure there were many principled City and Newcastle fans that quietly stepped away, but their anxiety was lost amongst the general gid that surrounded the takeovers, the hilarious sights of mancs and geordies with towels on their heads. Liverpool fans mustn't allow that to happen, there must be demonstrations and protests stating how upset the fanbase is, if it comes to pass that Saudi Arabia or its equivalent look like taking over the club. If you are truly a fan of LFC and believe in what it stands for, you must show your opposition. To do otherwise is to admit it doesn't matter who you suppport as long as they are winning.

Thing is I really don`t believe the Saudi's (and similar regimes) will. Every man and his dog knows that we are a fanbase who will actively oppose such a thing. My hunch is a further set of american owners.

[Lycan]

Could Julian Ward be stepping down because he can see which direction the club is heading in, which sort of owners we're going to have in the future perhaps? Knowing that when they come in he'll be given a lesser role or gotten rid of altogether even?

[will2003]

Lot of reactionary response to very little information at the moment. The way I see it is we are club being prepped for sale for the following reasons:

1) The releasing of staff enables the new owners to bring either their own teams from other areas of their business (if they are already invested in sports) or that they aren't required moving forward. Also performance may have been reviewed and they are being replace by better versions or furthermore they were destabilising the club internally. The former is typical of a sale mentality and would suggest more advanced conversations are in progress and all parties are requesting we remove these roles from the pay roll and also improving the bottom line EBITDA etc... The key here is we don't loose people in the commercial team as they are boosting the commercial revenues of the club and making it more appealing than a sports director will.

2) People are now worried Utd will get the better owners, based on what? Whoever buys them will need to stump a shit ton of money and that after dealing with the Glazers which won't be a smooth process unlike FSG. They need major investment on top of their huge fee, the club needs gutting throughout and this won't provide any ROI in the short/medium term. Compare that to us who, have a slick commercial business, good infrastructure and general stability in the running of the club. All any new owner needs to do is carry on maximising revenues and invest in the on field activities.

3) On the ownership; I understand the want not to be a sovereign wealth fund toy or sports washing project. This seems like the way football is heading though and to compete against these project is difficult if you are run sensibly and sustainably. This is down to weak governance and tribalism in the running of the game (FIFA, UEFA and FA). The game should look toward the NFL as a way of making money (it far from perfect btw) as its geared to make clubs money. I'm not sure how I feel about Saudi or ME ownership, one thing though is a consortium worries me because it involves all parties working together in the same direction over a long period of time. That's a tough ask. Looking for a rich billionaire sugar daddy is also a slim possibility and will throw up dubious characters as well. Also are they not just as band as Sovereign state? We all had fun at Chelseas expense during and after Roman, not sure we would like that model either.

Whoever does buy the club will be questionable to different sections of the fans no doubt about it. I more about what the new owner need to do imho. For me they need to keep the club competitive, relatively debt free and healthy commercially and invest in the squad. We the fans own the traditional, history and passion for the club and for me that's not for sale regardless of who buys the club. We have a duty to up hold these core elements of the club and we have pretty solid reputation of doing well.

[KillieRed]

Watched the first half an hour of that Netflix Documentary on FIFA last night - fuck me I didn't realise just how far back the corruption went. I was only 11 when the 78 World Cup was held and had no idea of what was going on in Argentina with the Military Junta. Explains why Qatar got the world cup and just how much money in bribes these greedy c*nts took and why the game is now fucked.

They even called the Berlin Olympics the very first sportswash event 

I suppose if you’re being picky you could point at sponsored events in the Colosseum, Circus Maximus or the many, smaller regional arenas by powerful Romans as sports-washing events. They were certainly used to gain political favour & placate restless populations.

[So… Howard Philips]

I suppose if you’re being picky you could point at sponsored events in the Colosseum, Circus Maximus or the many, smaller regional arenas by powerful Romans as sports-washing events. They were certainly used to gain political favour & placate restless populations.

Bread and circuses.

Or petrol and Bellingham.

[Qston]

Bread and circuses.

Or petrol and Bellingham Socrates.

[Egyptian36]

People really underestimate how wealthy Saudi and UAE are, 10 billion is like 1$ for them. They bought Newcastle and City for a reason, If they really want LFC or United FSG or the Glazers would have sold to them long time ago. Like I said this discussion which leads to arguing and insults is a waste of time,  most likely the new owners will be from the US.

[paulrazor]

very well said, unfortunately in these battles you describe sometimes you cant do right for doing wrong.

Golf for instance has been almost ripped apart this year with the LIV issues. People crying out for someone to speak up, then those that do are often criticised themselves, Rory Mcilroy for instance has a big voice in it, the world number 1 who has won 4 majors and for over 10 years has been a big star in the sport. He speaks up and some say "oh well its easy for him as he has x hundred million in his bank".

However a run of the mill golfer like Eddie Pepperell spoke out, probably not got millions lying around but I doubt he has to sweat when ordering heating oil and paying the electric bill but when he spoke out
"sure he is shit, he has never won anything, never will, wont ever get within an arses roar of a ryder cup team".

Damned if you do, damned if you dont

[rob1966]

Don't bite,the prick was chatting shit right up to his bedtime,that's when Daddy turns his internet access off.

Wish a mod would turn his RAWK access off

What a load of nonsense. I've walked away from jobs and friends over my principles and moral beliefs. If you think i won't walk away from the club if someone like who owns City or Newcastle take over then you are wrong. How do you know the moral fibre of posters on here to make shit statements like the above?

I broke contact with my Dad over Brexit - I can easily walk away from LFC if I have to

[WhereAngelsPlay]

People really underestimate how wealthy Saudi and UAE are, 10 billion is like 1$ for them. They bought Newcastle and City for a reason, If they really want LFC or United FSG or the Glazers would have sold to them long time ago. Like I said this discussion which leads to arguing and insults is a waste of time,  most likely the new owners will be from the US.

Never been very good at math,9+5 is about my limit.

[cdav]

Without any real information all it allows is everyone to project their own bias onto the situation. Its clearly not ideal for the stability of the club and planning of much needed transfers, there is a lot of change that is now needed through both the on field and off field staff

[rob1966]

Never been very good at math,9+5 is about my limit.

Its maths not math