Author Topic: Guardian interview with John Henry - now updated with Part II  (Read 17668 times)

Offline SalisburyRed

  • No fun "budding young Tory"!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,976
Guardian interview with John Henry - now updated with Part II
« on: October 12, 2011, 04:16:34 pm »
The text in this first post is a preamble to the main interview, both parts of which has been posted below on this thread (click here to jump to part one, and click here to skip straight to part two).

John W Henry, the principal owner of Liverpool, has acknowledged he knew "virtually nothing" of English football or the football club before his Fenway Sports Group took over at Anfield a year ago this Saturday. Tom Werner, the chairman of Fenway and now of Liverpool, said he too had barely heard of the club, but was aware of the "EPL" – English Premier League – and its popularity, and "certainly knew about Manchester United".

During three days of exclusive access in the United States with Henry, Werner and key executives of Fenway, which owns the Boston Red Sox baseball team, they explained the prime attraction of buying Liverpool lay in the financial potential of the club's global following.

Lifelong fans of baseball, whose support is mostly restricted to the US, they began to take an interest in Liverpool after comprehending the scale of international interest in the Premier League on television and via the internet – and the prospects of being able to make money from it.

Asked what he knew about English football, and Liverpool, before an email from a Fenway Park employee alerted him to the Merseyside club's financial difficulties last August, Henry replied: "Very little. We knew virtually nothing about Liverpool Football Club nor EPL."

Henry said as Liverpool's difficult financial predicament was outlined to him last year, he saw parallels with the Red Sox, the MLB team Fenway bought in 2002. Before the takeover, the Red Sox had not won a World Series for 84 years, and the team's stadium, Fenway Park, was showing its age. Liverpool offered Henry a new challenge, to revitalise a football club as Fenway has with the Red Sox – although a spectacular September collapse this season has plunged the team into turmoil. He saw Liverpool as an opportunity to apply a similar strategy, but in an international sport with a following that hugely outstrips that of baseball.

Following that email, Henry and Werner attended a presentation given by Philip Hall, an executive at Inner Circle Sports, the New York‑based merchant bankers whichspecialises in the takeovers of English football clubs. Inner Circle acted for Tom Hicks and George Gillett when they bought Liverpool in 2007, and for Ellis Short when he took over at Sunderland. Werner said before that meeting with Inner Circle, who would become Fenway's financial advisers on buying Liverpool, he knew very little of the club: "I had been in sports so I was aware of the EPL and its strength globally," said Werner, a Grammy award-winning Los Angeles‑based television producer. "But I didn't know the inner workings of it. I certainly knew about Manchester United."

The Liverpool chairman said that he did not at the time believe buying the football club held any appeal for Fenway, which owns the Roush Nascar motor racing team. Of the meeting with Inner Circle, Werner recalled: "I wasn't paying too much attention. Frankly I was on my Blackberry, dealing with more pressing issues. I thought there was no way John was going to drag us into that one."

Henry, however, found Liverpool compelling, particularly the club's supporter base in the Far East. This week Ian Ayre, whom Fenway appointed managing director at Liverpool, said he wanted the overseas TV rights sales, which the 20 Premier League clubs currently share equally, to be broken up so that clubs could fix their own deals individually.

Werner explained that baseball teams share a proportion of income from tickets, merchandising and broadcasting, to ensure more level competition between big and small teams. The Liverpool chairman said the amount of money they are forced to share, however, is a source of resentment: "We realise we are part of a league, but we feel the burden on the top is higher than appropriate. We feel we deserve the fruits of our labour. That is the difference with the EPL. If we can generate interest in Liverpool here and around the world, we will benefit from that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/12/liverpool-john-henry-fenway
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 05:53:50 pm by SalisburyRed »

Offline Packalacky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,875
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 04:37:26 pm »
Tom Werner, the chairman of Fenway and now of Liverpool, said he too had barely heard of the club, but was aware of the "EPL" – English Premier League – and its popularity, and "certainly knew about Manchester United".

 :o

Offline newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,795
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 04:37:50 pm »
i have a sense this article is going to tell us (At least certainly on this site) nothing new of note.

Offline paulrazor

  • Dreams of a handjob from Timmy Mallett. Chronicler of seasons past. Cares more than Prelude Nr 5, or does he? No chance of getting a banana at his house.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,690
  • Take me 2 the magic of the moment on a glory night
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 04:48:56 pm »
"Following that email, Henry and Werner attended a presentation given by Philip Hall, an executive at Inner Circle Sports, the New York‑based merchant bankers whichspecialises in the takeovers of English football clubs."

what email is that then, wonder who sent it
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline Aristotle

  • is a bugger for the bottle. Apache tool wielder extraordinaire - especially in wardrobes. The 'Oral B' Specialist.....brushes his cavities vigorously outdoors.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,438
  • Happiness depends upon ourselves
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 04:49:08 pm »
Nothing we didn't know already, and is just coming out now due to the TV thing and us playing the Mancs on Saturday.
My twitter
If Harry can get Spurs to the CL 1/4 final then he could get England to the World Cup final.

Offline bleedsred1978

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,428
  • Get Behind Brendan Rodgers
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 04:50:28 pm »
"Following that email, Henry and Werner attended a presentation given by Philip Hall, an executive at Inner Circle Sports, the New York‑based merchant bankers whichspecialises in the takeovers of English football clubs."

what email is that then, wonder who sent it

before an email from a Fenway Park employee alerted him to the Merseyside club's financial difficulties last August

That's the Liverpool fan within Fenway. Something ski.
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline bleedsred1978

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,428
  • Get Behind Brendan Rodgers
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 04:51:00 pm »
Nothing we didn't know already, and is just coming out now due to the TV thing and us playing the Mancs on Saturday.

I didnt know he was a Grammy award winning producer but that was about it.
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline paulrazor

  • Dreams of a handjob from Timmy Mallett. Chronicler of seasons past. Cares more than Prelude Nr 5, or does he? No chance of getting a banana at his house.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,690
  • Take me 2 the magic of the moment on a glory night
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 04:52:10 pm »
before an email from a Fenway Park employee alerted him to the Merseyside club's financial difficulties last August

That's the Liverpool fan within Fenway. Something ski.
thank god for him
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline bleedsred1978

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,428
  • Get Behind Brendan Rodgers
From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Online Crosby Nick

  • He was super funny. Used to do these super hilarious puns
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 111,915
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 04:57:30 pm »
"although a spectacular September collapse this season has plunged the team into turmoil."

2 defeats in a row constitutes turmoil these days? Nothing kneejerk about modern football is there?!

Offline SP

  • Thor ain't got shit on this dude! Alpheus. SPoogle. The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end with a tube of Vagisil. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 36,042
  • .
  • Super Title: Southern Pansy
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 04:58:21 pm »
Tom Werner, the chairman of Fenway and now of Liverpool, said he too had barely heard of the club, but was aware of the "EPL" – English Premier League – and its popularity, and "certainly knew about Manchester United".

 :o

They had no interest in buying a football club when they only knew about about Man Utd.

Once they heard about us, they bought us. Clearly men of discernment....

Offline Hazell

  • Ultimate Movie Night Draft Winner 2017. King - or Queen - of Mystery. Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex conch.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,874
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 04:58:32 pm »
Tom Werner, the chairman of Fenway and now of Liverpool, said he too had barely heard of the club, but was aware of the "EPL" – English Premier League – and its popularity, and "certainly knew about Manchester United".

 :o

Not surprising really, they've been more successful than us for two decades and part of their success has been the way they generate revenues throughout the world (hence Werner's acknowledgement), something which they took advantage of while left ourselves behind.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline AirConGipsyRed

  • The Floater in Camerons Toilet.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,230
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 04:58:47 pm »
"although a spectacular September collapse this season has plunged the team into turmoil."

2 defeats in a row constitutes turmoil these days? Nothing kneejerk about modern football is there?!

Not sure if you are fishing, but I think they were talking about the RedSox.
The wheels on my house go round and round, round and round..........

"I don't care about pollution, I'm an Air-Conditioned Gipsy, That's my solution, Watch the police and the tax man miss me, I'm mobile"

Offline Dr Manhattan

  • I discovered and developed fucktron. That's right, me. It's my word and, frankly, anyone trying to take credit for it is nothing short of a fucktron.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,345
  • Officially the 7th best poster you'll see on here.
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 04:59:49 pm »
"although a spectacular September collapse this season has plunged the team into turmoil."

2 defeats in a row constitutes turmoil these days? Nothing kneejerk about modern football is there?!

He means the Sox mate.
I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.

Online Crosby Nick

  • He was super funny. Used to do these super hilarious puns
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 111,915
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 05:04:12 pm »
Not sure if you are fishing, but I think they were talking about the RedSox.

He means the Sox mate.

Erm, yes I was fishing. Most definitely...Just ignore me!

Offline Fiasco

  • Just add water to foam at the mouth. Can't spell San Francisco. Has promised to eat his own cock. Cannibal Self-Harm in that case.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,270
  • JFT96.
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2011, 05:06:18 pm »
Oh look, we play United on the weekend and the headlines will be ' Liverpool chairman knew of rivals, not Liverpool ' or such bollocks.

Offline 88_RED

  • Not a real bookie though.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,722
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2011, 05:07:38 pm »
"Following that email, Henry and Werner attended a presentation given by Philip Hall, an executive at Inner Circle Sports, the New York‑based merchant bankers whichspecialises in the takeovers of English football clubs."

what email is that then, wonder who sent it

Joe Januszewski
F*CK 0FF Mourinho..

Offline J-Mc-

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,642
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2011, 05:11:18 pm »
Nothing we didn't know already and not suprising that they knew about United before us to be honest, our international commercialisation was poor until Ayre came in and has started actually putting our name out there.

United on the other hand had a foot in the Asian market and most middle eastern markets and are still expanding.

Offline steveeastend

  • Learnt to play them drums
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,853
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2011, 05:22:18 pm »
They know nothing about football and never will, but that was clear.

It´s more important that they never loose their will to invest money. Lot´s of money.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline J-Mc-

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,642
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2011, 05:23:37 pm »
They know nothing about football and never will, but that was clear.

It´s more important that they never loose their will to invest money. Lot´s of money.

We don't need 'lots' of money to improve, we need the right players at the right prices, as was shown in the Charlie Adam transfer in the summer window.

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,492
  • YNWA
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2011, 05:24:17 pm »
They know nothing about football and never will, but that was clear.

Really?

As to me its been clear they have been doing all they can to learn about football.

Offline steveeastend

  • Learnt to play them drums
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,853
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2011, 05:27:32 pm »
We don't need 'lots' of money to improve, we need the right players at the right prices, as was shown in the Charlie Adam transfer in the summer window.

We will need shitloads of money. The investments so far can only be the beginning if the goal is to play regular CL football.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline steveeastend

  • Learnt to play them drums
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,853
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2011, 05:31:36 pm »
Really?

As to me its been clear they have been doing all they can to learn about football.

I don´t think you can "learn" the football, everything on the european football business without making massive mistakes. They are aware that they need advise which is a risky thing as well cause nobody can judge a situation when not being involved with the club on a regular basis. Making mistakes costs money to put it right. Then there´s the squad which still needs about 35m investment a year in order to guarantue a constant improvement.

One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,492
  • YNWA
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 05:35:16 pm »
I don´t think you can "learn" the football, everything on the european football business without making massive mistakes. They are aware that they need advise which is a risky thing as well cause nobody can judge a situation when not being involved with the club on a regular basis. Making mistakes costs money to put it right. Then there´s the squad which still needs about 35m investment a year in order to guarantue a constant improvement.

But how exactly does that mean they will never know anything about football?

Offline SP

  • Thor ain't got shit on this dude! Alpheus. SPoogle. The Equusfluminis Of RAWK. Straight in at the deep end with a tube of Vagisil. Needs to get a half-life. Needs a damned good de-frag.
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 36,042
  • .
  • Super Title: Southern Pansy
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2011, 05:35:32 pm »
We will need shitloads of money. The investments so far can only be the beginning if the goal is to play regular CL football.

Do we? Thus far we are using what we have a bit more sensibly, rather that throwing outside cash at the problem. Top 4 is distinctly possible for the team that they have assembled.  That unlocks the Champions League cash. They are looking at commercial deals covering the bulk of the stadium costs.

I don't think they need a huge injection of cash.

Offline brownie 09

  • Long-winded.....but never mind :)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,372
  • twitter - brownie09RAWK
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 05:35:53 pm »
We don't need 'lots' of money to improve, we need the right players at the right prices, as was shown in the Charlie Adam transfer in the summer window.
agree with this, we also need to keep improving the academy, and bringing through our own players, also setting up links like we have with that club in Uruguay, to be more sustainable. I think that way would be a lot more satisfying.

Offline SalisburyRed

  • No fun "budding young Tory"!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,976
Re: Liverpool and English football were a mystery to me, says John W Henry
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 06:03:20 pm »
Liverpool's owners battle boom and bust after Boston Red Sox stumble

The Boston Red Sox success story came crashing down last month but John W Henry and Fenway Sports Group believe the same approach can benefit Liverpool

For the owners of Liverpool Football Club – John W Henry, Tom Werner and their partners in Fenway Sports Group – the honeymoon is over. After a calamitous run of results, the group famed for shrewd-value "moneyball" player signings are accused of wastefully overspending, fans are in uproar, the manager has departed. The owners, on the defensive, are accused for the first time of having their focus diverted by the other club they own across the Atlantic.

This is not some nightmare future scenario for Liverpool, which Henry and his partners have owned, to mostly positive approval, for exactly a year this Saturday, when Liverpool face the club's modern nemesis, Manchester United, at Anfield. It is a crisis unravelling right now at the other major sports club Fenway owns and which, in reality, consumes much more of its focus: the Boston Red Sox baseball team. After the most catastrophic collapse in the final month of a season in baseball history, the Red Sox blew a nine-game lead in September to be pipped for the "wild card" – second‑place qualification for the post-season play-offs – by the much less financially resourced Tampa Bay Rays. In America, this is a huge sporting story, yet in Britain it has barely registered, despite the Liverpool connection.

Terry Francona, the manager of eight years who won World Series in 2004 and 2007, has gone, the general manager, Theo Epstein, has reportedly signed a deal this week to join the Chicago Cubs, and, with criticism of the players' physical fitness rampant, Henry has promised: "The organisation will have a self‑critical examination."

Last month, with Liverpool due to play Tottenham Hotspur at White Hart Lane – they would be crushed 4-0 – and the Red Sox playing four successive games against the Rays, Henry granted the Guardian three days' exclusive access and interviews in Boston, with him, the Liverpool and Fenway chairman, Werner, and key senior executives at Fenway Park, home of the Red Sox. Watching the games with him, and talking at length, afforded the most revealing insight yet into Henry, his and his partners' careers and approach to owning sports clubs, and their motivations for buying Liverpool in that bitter court battle against Tom Hicks and George Gillett, the previous American owners, 12 months ago.

Henry confessed that before he bought them he knew "virtually nothing about Liverpool Football Club nor EPL". That is the abbreviation Americans use for the English Premier League, in a country where the major sports leagues are the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL. Werner said he, too, had barely heard of the club: "I had been in sports so I was aware of the EPL and its strength globally," Werner said. "But I didn't know the inner workings of it. I certainly knew about Manchester United."

It adds up to the most revealing picture of any of the US buyers, who come from a country still largely oblivious to football yet who have somehow become owners of five of the English game's most prestigious clubs: Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal, Aston Villa and Sunderland. Henry and his colleagues explained they were drawn to Liverpool by the challenge of restoring a great sports club to winning ways and solving its stadium conundrum, as they did for the Red Sox in Boston. But it was also clear they were attracted, centrally, by learning about the huge support the Premier League and Liverpool have on television and the internet worldwide, compared to American sports whose following remains mostly restricted to the US. The prospect of being able to make huge money from media and sponsorship with that global reach led them to buy Liverpool.

Henry, though, is clearly keenly worried about a backlash from fans at both clubs, who may accuse the owners of concentrating too much on the other – a reaction that erupted in Boston last week with vitriolic press criticism of Fenway's "dysfunctional" organisation and Henry's involvement with Liverpool. He suggests he and his partners, contrary to their image of frugal, statistics-based player signings, in fact sanctioned major spending partly to allay that concern. The Red Sox spent $300m (Ł190m) on "payroll" – wage commitments – before this season on two left-arm hitters: Carl Crawford, signed for $140m wages over seven years, and Adrian Gonzalez, $154m. Kenny Dalglish, since being appointed Liverpool manager in January, has paid Ł110.5m in transfer fees alone for Andy Carroll (Ł35m), Luis Suárez (Ł22m), Jordan Henderson (Ł20m), Stewart Downing (Ł20m), Charlie Adam (Ł7.5m) and José Enrique (Ł6m).

"There was a lot of criticism in Boston that we weren't going to spend money on the Red Sox after we did the Liverpool transaction," Henry said. "Then there was the fear we wouldn't spend in Liverpool. Hopefully the fans of both clubs will eventually see what we see clearly – that there is nothing to fear from the existence of the other club."

In the proud, cultured city of Boston, this is Fenway's first crisis in a story of previously shining success since Henry, Werner and partners bought the Red Sox in 2002, and hired Epstein, a protege of the chief executive, Larry Lucchino, to overhaul player recruitment. They inherited expensive plans for a new stadium but ripped them up, opting instead to refurbish Fenway Park, the grand, original, 1912 inner-city ballpark. (They do not use the word stadium, Lucchino firmly explained, just as they have trained themselves with admirable discipline not to refer to Liverpool as a franchise or football as soccer.)

Henry said from the beginning they always wanted to stay at the renowned old place: "Why would you leave a beautiful, historic ballpark unless you absolutely had to? The previous ownership believed the best way to compete with the New York Yankees was to build a brand-new ballpark, which would have generated tremendous revenue. We chose to refurbish Fenway Park because after a great deal of study we were able to determine it was, in fact, doable."

The group has asked that same question at Liverpool, where it inherited designs for a prohibitively expensive new stadium on Stanley Park, but it has found the legal planning obstacles to redeveloping Anfield, still its preferred option, so far intractable. At Fenway Park, with more of the expansiveness of a cricket ground than a football stadium, it was able to develop gradually, make good money from relatively cheap improvements, and invest the income back into another upgrade, until the group completed a splendid refurbishment, costing $285m since 2002, all with reinvested income.

The renovation has generated a great deal more income, partly from increased ticket prices. The first move, Henry recalled, was to introduce two new front rows of seats, for which fans pay a high premium. They later added extra tiers, the Coca-Cola Corner and Budweiser Deck, where a party of 20 can sit at tables for $22,000. Corporate boxes, overhauled, sell for $250,000 a season. Some fans can still stand in one row at the back of stands for $25 or $30; the seats in front of them cost $90. The 274 seats installed in the Green Monster, the famous wall above the scoreboard, are favourites, costing $165.

At these prices, the crowd at games appears comfortably middle class and is overwhelmingly white, largely missing the age group also substantially priced out of Premier League matches: young people in their late teens and early 20s. It is, though, striking how many girls and women there are, and baseball is clearly a date, young couples snuggling closer as night draws in. David Ginsberg, a former hedge fund financier, now the Fenway partner who spends most time in Liverpool – "Around a week a month," he said – smiled, watching families on the Budweiser Deck guzzle beer, Coke, hotdogs, popcorn, peanuts, ice cream, chips. "I wondered why there were so few women at Anfield. But it's more social here, isn't it?"

For the English visitor abroad in Boston and innocent of the weighty expectations riding on the games, baseball at Fenway Park is a lovely sporting experience, a privilege. The early autumn sun setting golden over the ballpark, the game's attractive geometry, the well-catered-for crowd hugging the action … Fenway Park weaves a seductive appeal. If you are watching sport at a level on which the very rules must be explained, you can enjoy the spectacle detached from emotional investment in the result. With The Star Spangled Banner sung before the game by the pure young voices of Scouts or glee clubs, the baseball frames an idealised vision of how much of middle America would like to see their country. To the English eye, the Red Sox fans, agreeable enough even in defeat, seem a world away from a sporting passion that anybody could possibly describe as more important than life and death.

Henry watches from his owner's box above the hitter's plate, present, with his wife, Linda, at almost all the games at Fenway. The volume of matches, 162 a season, and the work required in the "offseason" mean, Henry said, he can be at Liverpool matches only rarely. "There is a rhythm of nightly baseball games. I couldn't give that up," he said. "And I love that. I'm rarely at Liverpool matches. If I had two lives I would spend one in Europe, but I don't."

In the agonies of defeats to the fitter and more united-looking Rays, Henry was an optimist to the last, a foil to Werner's nervy exasperation. With two men out in the ninth inning and the Red Sox 8‑5 down, Henry still saw possible salvation from the last man standing: "OK, we need a home run." Yet watching hitters striking out or fielders fumbling, at times he swept his fingers through his hair, whispering to himself: "That is unbelievable."

Werner, a celebrated Los Angeles TV producer of series including Roseanne and The Cosby Show, is more a pacer and shouter: "Come on!" he yelled in frustration. They came together with Lucchino and 16 other partners to pay $700m for the Red Sox, and the baseball franchise's truly lucrative arm, the pay-TV station New England Sports Network, which has the rights to show the games regionally.

Baseball has always had owners; the teams were commercial ventures from the beginning, not formed as member associations, like most football clubs here, where for 100 years shareholders were prohibited from taking money out. The teams are literally franchises, licensed by Major League Baseball, which tries to ensure a level playing field between high-earning big city teams and smaller ones. All clubs' income is taxed, then shared out, a system Lucchino described, drily and without obvious enthusiasm, as "very socialistic". Werner was quite open that, as a richer franchise, Fenway resents how much money it is taxed, which is not publicly disclosed. "It is a balance," he acknowledged. "We realise we are part of a league, but we feel the burden on the top is higher than appropriate. We feel we deserve the fruits of our labour."

It became quickly clear, talking to them, that a prime attraction to the Americans of buying English football clubs is that in the Premier League the clubs keep all the money they make, from everything except television rights. So it was no surprise that the managing director they appointed, Ian Ayre, talked this week about beginning the break-up of even that, the collective TV deal. "That is the difference with the EPL," Werner said. "If we can generate interest in Liverpool here and around the world, we will benefit from that."

Henry still talks about baseball as a passion rather than a financial investment, but it is clear the 19 Fenway partners expect to make money out of it. Ed Weiss, Fenway's general counsel – in-house lawyer – explained the approach of the partners, who have never so far taken a cash profit out: "If you were interested in pure financial return, sport would not be your path, because it is not liquid. That said, everybody would want to make some return for their investment." The one partner whose financial figures are public, because it is listed on the stock exchange, is the New York Times Company. It paid $75m to become 17.75% owners in the original 2002 takeover. Last year it sold a small stake for a reported $14m. Three months ago it sold around 10%, for $117m – that makes $131m realised, a $41m profit, and still the company retains a 7% stake.

The Fenway partners made their money in diverse fields before they invested in baseball. Henry grew up on an isolated Arkansas farm, his father seriously ill for much of John's childhood, and baseball was an escape that became a lifelong passion. Listening to the St Louis Cardinals on radio commentary, he said, "filled my room with players and magic". Gentle in manner behind thick glasses he has needed all his life, and famously softly spoken, Henry played in rock bands and, in his early 20s, was a professional gambler in Las Vegas, using a mathematical approach for the casino game of 21. Inheriting his father's farms, he moved into grain trading, where he developed an analytical system based on identifying long-term trends, which led him to the fortunes he ultimately made trading for major financial firms.

His first baseball stake was in the New York Yankees, baseball's giant whose rivalry with the Red Sox parallels Manchester United's with Liverpool. He described buying into baseball as "a great stress reduction", not primarily an investment. American sports owners move around; they are not tied by support to a particular club. In 1998 Henry bought the Florida Marlins, stayed for three years, then left after he was unable to get a new stadium approved and paid for with public money by the Florida senate. Werner was a partner in the San Diego Padres, where Lucchino was chief executive. In dizzying multiple trades, Werner sold the Padres, Henry sold the Marlins to the owners of the Montreal Expos, that group sold the Expos to MLB, which scrapped the Canadian franchise and turned it into the Washington Nationals, and Henry's partnership, freed up, bought the Red Sox.

The Boston team is, to use that evocative American word, "storied", meaning the Red Sox have heritage, stories. The most renowned, of course, was that the team had not won a World Series, the equivalent of the Premier League championship, since 1918, when the legendary hitter Babe Ruth was sold to the New York Yankees. Lore has it that the sale, and subsequent long-time "curse of the Bambino", was due to the financial motivations of the owner, Harry Frazee, who sold Ruth because he wanted to take money out to invest in a Broadway play.

Henry and his partners, of course, wrote a new story, staying triumphantly at Fenway Park and winning the World Series, in 2004, breaking the 86‑year curse, and 2007. Famously too, they became associated with the sabermetrics, statistical approach, as used by the arguably overachieving small team Oakland Athletics and chronicled in the book Moneyball by Michael Lewis, now romanticised into a film starring Brad Pitt as the As' manager, Billy Beane.

The Moneyball concept has become both simplified and overblown in discussion, and even Henry says its significance is exaggerated. The Oakland As did not become successful because they suddenly started using statistics to assess players to sign. Baseball has always been bedecked in statistics; the game manufactures numbers. Moneyball told the story of a hobby statistician, Bill James, who concluded that some data, such as the number of times a hitter makes it, workaday, to first base, were in fact more important to a match than crowd-pleasing, eye-catching but rare feats such as hitting glorious home runs. Sceptics, however, argue that the Oakland As did so well because they had three outstanding, star pitchers, Mark Mulder, Barry Zito and Tim Hudson, in a sport where the pitcher is key – hitting a ball thrown at 80-95mph with a thin bat is extremely difficult, even for players on $154m wages.

Henry, keen to accrue any potential advantage and being, with his ostensible gentleness, a consummate networker, made contact with James and Beane. He offered Beane the job of general manager then, when Beane declined for family reasons, hired Epstein instead. The World Series victories were ascribed to sabermetrics, but Henry explained it was down to all-round rigour. "We'll look at stats no one else will look at, employ scouting in a way that has a compelling organisational context, question everything and everyone and ensure we have the best player development curriculum and protocols. In short, we are determined to outwork everyone else and hopefully be smarter every year." That was before the September collapse that plunged the Red Sox organisation into, as Henry put it, "critical self‑examination".

They came to buy Liverpool a year ago when, despite missing the play-offs, their record was still glowing, Fenway's income was around $1bn, and Henry was considering expanding into some other American sporting venture. His interest was sparked by an employee in corporate sales at Fenway Park, Joe Januszewski, who was, somehow, a Liverpool fan. With Liverpool staggering under the debts Hicks and Gillett had loaded on to the club, he emailed Henry: "Please save my club." Henry admits he had reached the age of 60, a lifelong American sports fan, knowing "virtually nothing" of football, or the Anfield club that have won 18 League championships and five European Cups. But he was intrigued, and fixed a meeting with Inner Circle Sports, New York bankers who became Fenway's financial advisers on the deal.

Werner, recalling that meeting, at which Inner Circle's Philip Hall presented Liverpool's prospects, smiled. "I wasn't paying too much attention," the current Liverpool chairman said. "Frankly I was on my BlackBerry, dealing with more pressing issues. I thought there was no way John was going to drag us into that one."

Part Two of David Conn's series with the Boston Red Sox and Liverpool owners will be on guardian.co.uk on Thursday

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/oct/12/liverpool-boston-red-sox-henry?CMP=twt_gu

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,402
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2011, 07:06:35 pm »
To clear up the 'knowing Utd' thing, in the US, one of those facts that gets bandied about in recent years was 'The Yankees are not the biggest sports franchise in the world, it is the United of Manchester in the British Preeemiership League, Manchester having won the last three world cups'.
In other words Utd get mentioned a lot in financial articles about Sport, which is what I am sure Werner and Henry read all they can of.
I guarantee he couldn't have named a Utd player, or their stadium or manager. He just knew of their Forbes assessed worth.
"This is Anfield, this is what they do." Thomas Tuchel

@dgljones

Offline Mr Kipling

  • Manhattanite
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,846
  • "Dream of Kloppifornication"
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2011, 07:12:32 pm »
The Guardian are pulling out all the stops to attempt to unsettled us I see. Must of got the call off Demento early this year as he's shitting his pants about this weekend.

Offline Red Beret

  • Yellow Beret. Wants to sit in the Lobster Pot. Fat-fingered. Key. Boa. Rd. Kille. R. tonunlick! Soggy Knickers King. Bed-Exiting / Grunting / Bending Down / Cum Face Champion 2023.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 51,569
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2011, 07:16:30 pm »
Is it possible for a group to own two major franchises like Red Sox and Liverpool and NOT prioritise one of the other or become unbalanced?  I mean, I don't really subscribe to the native press attacks on FSG but clearly there are journos over there not happy about Henry's new toy, Liverpool.
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

Popcorn's Art

Offline El Campeador

  • Capital of Culture's Campaign Manager...Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,721
  • The shupporters create chances, for sure, djes
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2011, 07:35:43 pm »
Sox fans here aren't shying away from questioning whether Henry and Werner would have had more opportunity to notice the cancers eating away at the Sox clubhouse if they hadn't spent so much time on Liverpool.

Offline Heighwayondawing

  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,695
  • Come on The Reds
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2011, 07:39:37 pm »
Sox fans here aren't shying away from questioning whether Henry and Werner would have had more opportunity to notice the cancers eating away at the Sox clubhouse if they hadn't spent so much time on Liverpool.

Yep, read some thinly veiled remarks about Henry and Liverpool in the Globe back in late August. Not sure who wrote them, maybe Edes. Personally, I can see where the worry comes from. In the eyes of the fan, Henry is off galavanting in England while the Sox crumble. That said, the sole responsibility of Henry is not to manage a club. The press and fans complain about owners like Jerry Jones, but then they complain about owners that take the hands off approach. It's a no win.
The one most important thing that we all must remember, in case it slipped our mind, is this club is much more important and bigger than anybody. I'll never forget that and anybody that does is being a wee bit irresponsible and stupid I think because the club is more important than any one individual. The Club is, The Club.

Offline MobileBayRed

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2011, 08:17:17 pm »
I blame Mr. Henry for the loss to Spurs as well.
just can't confirm that delivery address and consequently gets non stop pelters off PayPal.

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,402
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2011, 08:18:00 pm »
Of course you can run two seperate business and it not be detrimental. Henry and Werner are not doing the day-to-day decisions in either club. I mean if they didn't have highly paid people at every level who they trust it would be one thing, but as it is, they are overseeing and having the final say, but not making every tiny decision. It wasn't their place to 'notice the cancers', they had people earning millions a year whose job was to do that, if that failed, then they will shake up their staff and find people who can take care of business.
Pepsi owns KFC and Pizza Hut. If KFC's new product fails, would the press blame the CEO of Pepsi for spending too much time on the new Pizza delivery system they were working on? Of course not, but in sports you have fans who want easy people to blame when things go wrong, and there are plenty of journos happy to make money from feeding that need.
"This is Anfield, this is what they do." Thomas Tuchel

@dgljones

Offline newterp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,795
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2011, 08:43:09 pm »
I blame Mr. Henry for the loss to Spurs as well.

and global warming.

Offline steveeastend

  • Learnt to play them drums
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,853
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2011, 09:41:22 pm »
Do we? Thus far we are using what we have a bit more sensibly, rather that throwing outside cash at the problem. Top 4 is distinctly possible for the team that they have assembled.  That unlocks the Champions League cash. They are looking at commercial deals covering the bulk of the stadium costs.

I don't think they need a huge injection of cash.

Making CL next year will be key. I don´t think that it´s possible to play successful CL and PL football at the same time with this squad on a constant basis though.  Even a tactical wizard like Rafa couldn´t handle this for too long without having a big squad around compared to the likes of Chelsea.

From what we´ve seen so far 4th is possible but it will be for sure a battle, no? If we fail, our signings weren´t good enough, evenmore considering that we are not playing european football. Henry will have to make up for the "mistakes" of this year then.

I am not saying that this will happen, but it´s possible as it is for Tottenham and Arsenal. They all will have to adjust their squads in order to stay competitive like us.

It doesn´t matter where the money comes from though. Naming partners, new stadium.. I am just saying that we will have to spend substantial money on players in the near future, next couple of years in order to close the gap.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 09:51:47 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Cestrianred

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2011, 09:57:05 pm »
The Manchester Guardian stirring it?
Well I never!

Offline El Ninos Black Eye

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,502
  • What we do in life, echoes in eternity!
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2011, 10:00:14 pm »
"Following that email, Henry and Werner attended a presentation given by Philip Hall, an executive at Inner Circle Sports, the New York‑based merchant bankers whichspecialises in the takeovers of English football clubs."

what email is that then, wonder who sent it
There was an article on it just after they took over.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8071794/How-Joe-Januszewskis-love-of-Liverpool-helped-spark-American-rescue-mission.html
"I'm being watched by the Secret Police and wondering when they’re going to come and take me away"

Offline Another Red

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,708
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2011, 05:12:21 am »
He called it the "EPL". Oh my god, what an idiot! Yanks out!  ;)

Offline gaijin_lfc

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 479
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Guardian interview with John Henry - Part I
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2011, 07:09:09 am »
Okay so what exactly is so horrendous about the acronym EPL? Don't go saying it's because it's not only English (Swansea). The league is still the English league as even the official Premier League website refers to it as the "English Premier League."

Is it just purely the use of an acronym that is so maligned? I've become accustomed to calling it the PL, the Prem, the Premiership, etc. but I still don't understand why there's always one or two people bemoaning the use of 'EPL.'