Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation

[Farman]

I like the fact that Slot has a big head. Literally, a big head. Not a fat head like Steve Bruce; it’s all above the forehead. It reassures me that he must therefore have a large brain. Which is what you’d want. I remember feeling the same way about Rafa.

Now, you might say that Ten Haag also has a big head, so what does that prove? But if you look at Ten Haag’s head, it’s only big in places; there are slopes and angles everywhere. And that reflects his team…magic ‘big head’ moments combined with functionally-limited small-brain structural issues. Also, a lack of hair is another positive indicator, since it suggests there is so much brain, right up to the skull’s edge, that the hairs cannnot effectively take root in any useless skull-to-skin wasteland.

[Samie]

Says the agent provocateur. The amount of fluffing you've done in here since that dark day in January, with your dodgy Twitter quotes and Joyce/Ornstein idolatry, you ought to be dragged out, tarred and feathered, put into the RAWK stocks and given a proper rotten tomato-ing.

See, I can bring RAWK bretheren together. 

And women   

Sorry...And women too Debs. 

[rossipersempre]

And balded.

Haha, I assumed that usually precedes the tarring/feathering but worth pointing out.

There's also people with a downer on it because his name sounds weird, let's face it.

Weird? What, like the phonetically similar Jurgen Klopp you mean?

[Draex]

Good grief.

As someone whose Mum literally had to talk him off the ledge (well, the top of the stairs) after the Michael Thomas goal in 1989, and who's punched an embarrassing number of coffee tables since then, I'm certainly not going to slaughter anyone for reacting to this stuff emotionally. But at the risk of patronising anyone, I think some of us maybe just need to take a minute and question whether there are really grounds to get so worked up.

I've not seen one comment that takes issue with Arne's putative appointment on the basis of his style or ability. 99% of the criticism has been based on experience to date: is the Dutch league better than the Portuguese league? Is ending a six-year wait for the title really an achievement? Are PSV really that good? How shit are Ajax?

Maybe it's understandable that folk are pawing at his record, because superficially it seems like a thing - and God knows we're all desperate to have something to get our teeth into to feel like we know where we are again after the bombshell of Jurgen leaving. But that kind of thinking is absolutely riddled with cognitive bias and subjectivity masquerading as objectivity. How a manager has performed at one club is influenced by far too many other things (ownership, resources, supporters, medical staff, facilities, expectations, scouting, players inherited, opposition, experience up to that point, etc....) to provide a reliable indication of whether they will succeed in the very specific role that our club has in mind (which, it's worth saying, we also know very little of - it's likely to be a different role to that which Jurgen is leaving, and I'm pretty sure most of us wouldn't have the faintest idea how Jurgen spent most of his time anyway).

Had he been demonstrably shite, then maybe. But he's obviously done 'well' everywhere he's been. Beyond that, none of us can really say anything based on CV alone. And those of you who say, even more specifically, that you want experience of winning x, y or z. Why? Evidently if the only people that won things were people who'd already won them then no-one else would win them. Not to get drawn in, because like I say it's a badly flawed metric, but (oh go on then...) Klopp hadn't won in Europe when he came here, and hadn't won in Germany when he took over Dortmund (ditto Guardiola when he took over Barca). All three were incredibly successful appointments in difficult leagues. On the other hand, Mourinho won plenty before being dreadful at Man U and Spurs.

'Ahh...' some will say, 'but those are all different'. YES! They are different! That's the whole point: each case is different and trying to simply 'apply proven winner' is an idiotic way to try and win things. Trying to be smart isn't just about trying to save money - it's about trying to spot the next thing to get in front of everyone else, and plainly the club have identified something in Arne they think will work. To my uninformed brain there's enough in that article The Final Third posted early this morning to make me think it could well be a great appointment.

Obviously it might not work out, but getting in a fume on the basis of CV alone just shows a staggering amount of overconfidence in your own ability to know how any of this works. The closest anyone's come to assessing him on him has been saying he sounds overly keen and concocting this entirely fictional image of him as some sort of sweaty-palmed dweeb our players will reject for telling us he fancies us rather than playing it cool (based on about ten seconds of interview).

Now, I've got absolutely no idea what goes through the mind of a professional footballer - I reckon they're all different - but neither do most of the people saying this. And I would, at least, expect they're used to actually judging managers by, y'know, their management. It sounds for all the world like he'll have an absolute field day with Trent; the idea that he'd suddenly want to jump ship just because the fella now in charge isn't a big enough name is laughable - he's the manager of Liverpool Football Club. How many managers are bigger than that any day of the week?

And frankly, if any of the current players do want someone with more GQ covers to their name then they can jog on and make room for those who actually want to play for this club, this set of fans and a guy who by all accounts inspires genuine respect and affection from his players.

Now, I'm not for one second saying we shouldn't discuss the merits - but, please, if we're going to do that then can we discuss the merits and not just rant about things that don't matter?

Post more often!

I think the him being keen is probably the best examples of goal posts shifting for a moan ever..

We want our players to be fully comitted to the club, yet when a manager openly shows similar level of comittment it's used as a negative that he's too keen.. If I was in discussion with Liverpool about being their manager fucking hell you couldn't shut me up like.

[Samie]

Liverpool and Feyenoord are heading towards finalising an agreement for Arne Slot to become Jurgen Klopp’s successor.

[@MelissaReddy_]

[rob1966]

Post more often!

I think the him being keen is probably the best examples of goal posts shifting for a moan ever..

We want our players to be fully comitted to the club, yet when a manager openly shows similar level of comittment it's used as a negative that he's too keen.. If I was in discussion with Liverpool about being their manager fucking hell you couldn't shut me up like.

Be like Zebedee after overdosing on speed

I've no idea about the fella, but I know it won't be a cluster fuck like ETH down the road. We're the masters of the stats and they will have worked like mad to get the right fit. Jurgen has done so much work since he came here, all the teams play the same way and we need a manager, IMO, who will continue that work, not rip it up and start again. The talent is there in the 1st team squad and coming through the ranks, we don't need to start ripping that apart, just work with and grow them, adding astute signings along the way.

As for signings, if ETH had come here, there is no way on this Earth that we'd have signed Anthony, Onana or any of the other clowns he's spunked the cash on, they'd have analysed the players and say "fuck off".

[Draex]

Be like Zebedee after overdosing on speed

I've no idea about the fella, but I know it won't be a cluster fuck like ETH down the road. We're the masters of the stats and they will have worked like mad to get the right fit. Jurgen has done so much work since he came here, all the teams play the same way and we need a manager, IMO, who will continue that work, not rip it up and start again. The talent is there in the 1st team squad and coming through the ranks, we don't need to start ripping that apart, just work with and grow them, adding astute signings along the way.

As for signings, if ETH had come here, there is no way on this Earth that we'd have signed Anthony, Onana or any of the other clowns he's spunked the cash on, they'd have analysed the players and say "fuck off".

I've had since Klopp's announcement to accept he's leaving, which he is and I understand why, doesn't mean I wasn't a whole big bag full of emotion through that, including being really pissed off at him at points.

But I'm over that now, and we are getting a new manager, that isn't changing so why be negative about it, let's get behind whoever it is and be the club we are supposed to be not one of the fake ones.

And yes, ETH came in, kicked the sporting director then started signing shit players for massive amounts, I see zero comparison between the two bar they are bald and dutch.

Trent needs to watch out though..

"Although now in a more reserved block, the AZ full-backs still jumped out to apply pressure in the wide areas. Right-back Svensson, for example, was among the highest-ranked for defensive duels in the 2019/20 Eredivisie. Cover inside the jumping full-back would primarily come from the closest of the double pivot – a defensive strategy Mourinho often uses – or, when needed, the now much deeper winger."

[CS111]

Good luck to him. I hope hes backed with a few 1st team players, comes with fresh ideas etc
My worry is, as usual, how often will he have a full squad to play with, given his style of play
Def need to change a few players but not massively.
Id start with a big fee for mo and try to get a younger, more skillful player in the diaz mould who can actually beat a player 1 on 1 and a technical mid fielder who can unlock defences.

[wemmick]

I think Slot will do well here. I have been concerned about the squad turnover required to get back to very high intensity counter pressing, but watching us the other night made me think some turnover might not be a bad idea. We have most of the players needed, especially coming out the academy. Perhaps some of the seniors need pastures new at this point anyway. 

[Samie]

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1783875746139636081

BREAKING: Liverpool and Feyenoord are heading towards finalising an agreement for Arne Slot to become Jurgen Klopp’s successor .

[DangerScouse]

The name Ron Perlman got me thinking of Ronnie Pickering 😂 … “If you say Ronnie Pickering 3 times in the car mirror a Citroen Picasso appears behind you”

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/r0dcv6GKNNw?si=DRLGBj4IlX2kgZF0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/r0dcv6GKNNw?si=DRLGBj4IlX2kgZF0</a>

https://youtu.be/SXS-3OH-cwE?si=T7p9SdbXtoB8a3d5

[Peabee]

What if he fails the medical?

[mattD]

I like the fact that Slot has a big head. Literally, a big head. Not a fat head like Steve Bruce; it’s all above the forehead. It reassures me that he must therefore have a large brain. Which is what you’d want. I remember feeling the same way about Rafa.

Now, you might say that Ten Haag also has a big head, so what does that prove? But if you look at Ten Haag’s head, it’s only big in places; there are slopes and angles everywhere. And that reflects his team…magic ‘big head’ moments combined with functionally-limited small-brain structural issues. Also, a lack of hair is another positive indicator, since it suggests there is so much brain, right up to the skull’s edge, that the hairs cannnot effectively take root in any useless skull-to-skin wasteland.

As bald packages go, Slot has the 'complete' head. Therefore he will be the complete manager. I concur that Ten Hag is only big in some places, lumpier in others.

[exiledintheUSA]

What if he fails the medical?

Or worse, he's Cup tied.

[Samie]

One intermediary suggested that Amorim's meeting with West Ham was to put pressure on Liverpool, but Liverpool had ALREADY marked Slot.

[@MelissaReddy_]

[Romford_Red]

Or worse, he's Cup tied.

I often think that Jordan Ibe could have been a proper superstar, if he hadn't still been cup-tied.

[dai_bonehead]

I like the fact that Slot has a big head. Literally, a big head. Not a fat head like Steve Bruce; it’s all above the forehead. It reassures me that he must therefore have a large brain. Which is what you’d want. I remember feeling the same way about Rafa.

Now, you might say that Ten Haag also has a big head, so what does that prove? But if you look at Ten Haag’s head, it’s only big in places; there are slopes and angles everywhere. And that reflects his team…magic ‘big head’ moments combined with functionally-limited small-brain structural issues. Also, a lack of hair is another positive indicator, since it suggests there is so much brain, right up to the skull’s edge, that the hairs cannnot effectively take root in any useless skull-to-skin wasteland.

I can get behind this theory. I have a sniper's dream of a bald head; like it was sculpted by a wobbly cat. Big forehead. Angles like a cybertruck, Cromagnon man meets cubism. Thick as shit.
I Know someone with an apparent iq in the 160s, he looks like he's straight off a Tefal advert from the 80s. Full head of hair, though.....

[exiledintheUSA]

I often think that Jordan Ibe could have been a proper superstar, if he hadn't still been cup-tied.

Daily, for me.

[Samie]

Ruben Amorim ticked several requirements, but his playing approach - particularly using three at the back - and long-term vision did not fit the current squad nor the philosophy implemented through all age groups at Liverpool. [@MelissaReddy_]

[mattD]

I often think that Jordan Ibe could have been a proper superstar, if he hadn't still been cup-tied.

Such a sad story about Jordan, he's playing in the National League at the moment. Horrible what depression can do to you, wish him all the best.

[Mighty_Red]

You’re talking about players that Klopp managed, he could make almost anyone into a world beater if we didn’t get his first choice, not the same thing unfortunately.

Misses the point entirely, the fact is we've generally done our business under the radar rather than do it in public.

Also, its stupid to somehow give Jurgen the credit for turning every player into a world class one.  You then can't try and pin failures on others.

He's a genius but very much the leader of a much greater team of staff. Let's try and be a bit magnanimous and start giving credit to everyone who has contributed to the success story.

[mattD]

I'm looking forward to Slot coming, really intrigued by him and will be backing him to the hilt. I've been pouring over Feyenoord videos and it looks exciting.

But I am conflicted over the club's stance that the manager has to be one of a similar nature to Klopp, right down to the formation we play. I admire the club implementing philosophies of the like you can see historically at Ajax and Barca, a system that ensures a sense of continuity and hey, standing by those principles has only benefited those clubs in the long term. It's also the best bet of ensuring youngsters get a chance which is key to our identity and success.

But at the same time, sometimes you need tactical flexibility. And I wonder if the need for that is greater in the Premier League than it is in Spain and the Netherlands. The greater competitiveness in the Premier League means that philosophies or playing styles can come unstuck against some teams, in a way that doesn't happen with lesser opponents in Spain.

I'm not asking us to play total football one week, then five at the back catenaccio defensive football the next, but I just query whether appointing a manager because he plays the same formation is indicative of a far too rigid vision?

Perhaps I'm doing Slot a disservice and that he does vary things up when need be (you have to do so to be the best) and I don't doubt his coaching credentials. But I do worry if further down the line, FSG and Edwards continue to adhere to a rigid strategy that means we lose out on the best man for the job simply because he didn't play the same formation as the predecessor.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I'm looking forward to Slot coming, really intrigued by him and will be backing him to the hilt. I've been pouring over Feyenoord videos and it looks exciting.

But I am conflicted over the club's stance that the manager has to be one of a similar nature to Klopp, right down to the formation we play.

I admire the club implementing philosophies of the like you can see historically at Ajax and Barca, a system that ensures a sense of continuity and hey, standing by those principles has only benefited those clubs in the long term. It's also the best bet of ensuring youngsters get a chance which is key to our identity and success.

But at the same time, sometimes you need tactical flexibility. And I wonder if the need for that is greater in the Premier League than it is in Spain and the Netherlands. The greater competitiveness in the Premier League means that philosophies or playing styles can come unstuck against some teams, in a way that doesn't happen with lesser opponents in Spain.

I'm not asking us to play total football one week, then five at the back catenaccio defensive football the next, but I just query whether appointing a manager because he plays the same formation is indicative of a far too rigid vision?

Perhaps I'm doing Slot a disservice and that he does vary things up when need be - you have to be the best, and I don't doubt his coaching credentials. But I do worry if further down the line, FSG and Edwards adhere to a rigid strategy that means we lose out on the best man for the job simply because he didn't play the same formation as the predecessor.

By the same breath if you are talking about tactical flexibility, if Amorim is like "I need to play this way and you have to make it work" isn't that a big load of tactical inflexibility too?

[DangerScouse]

Misses the point entirely, the fact is we've generally done our business under the radar rather than do it in public.

Also, its stupid to somehow give Jurgen the credit for turning every player into a world class one.  You then can't try and pin failures on others.

He's a genius but very much the leader of a much greater team of staff. Let's try and be a bit magnanimous and start giving credit to everyone who has contributed to the success story.

I think this post underestimates Jurgen to be honest. How did Dortmund do after he left? Was their success down to the collective structure too, which coincidentally dissipated when he left?

[danm77]

Are you getting this from twitter? Can't see these on her feed.

[na fir dearg]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1783805159534928323

Loves a bit of needle.

get him in

[Samie]

Are you getting this from twitter? Can't see these on her feed.

She's on Sky Sports mate. Same comments, just in text form. 

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1783875746139636081

[Romford_Red]

Such a sad story about Jordan, he's playing in the National League at the moment. Horrible what depression can do to you, wish him all the best.

Make you wonder how many kids who come through top academies and ten don't quite make it, suffer from (mostly unrealised and/or undiagnosed) depression.
I would be it's a disturbing amount.

[mattD]

By the same breath if you are talking about tactical flexibility, if Amorim is like "I need to play this way and you have to make it work" isn't that a big load of tactical inflexibility too?

I should make myself clearer, I'm not doubting the abilities or tactical flexibilities of Amorim or Slot. My point is not about the manager. There's surely indication of them being tactically flexible to make their teams successful. But if their preference for a formation and style is a selling point to Edwards and co, then surely that's far too rigid a requirement from the owners point of view.

I thought either Slot or Amorim would be suitable for us with their general styles of play, and that getting into specifics of a formation is too strict a requirement. At which point, do you risk losing the chance for the best man just for a petty and strict formation requirement?

[Samie]

We clearly don't want the entire blueprint of the club to be changed into 3-4-3. All age groups from our Under 14's to Seniors play high pressing 4-3-3/4-2-3-1.

[danm77]

I should make myself clearer, I'm not doubting the abilities or tactical flexibilities of Amorim or Slot. It's not about the manager. There's surely indication of them being tactically flexible to make their teams successful. But if their preference for a formation and style is a selling point to Edwards and co, then surely that's far too rigid a requirement from the owners point of view.

I thought either Slot or Amorim would be suitable for us with their general styles of play, and that getting into specifics of a formation is too strict a requirement. At which point, do you risk losing the chance for the best man just for a petty and strict formation requirement?

Who has said they've picked Slot purely due to formation and style of play? There are multiple reasons why they've picked him over other candidates. Barring Xabi, who ruled himself out.

[Dench57]

There's something to be said about a baldman that refuses to grow out a beard to balance things out. It's something Alan Titchmarsh would describe as "big dick energy".

[mattD]

We clearly don't want the entire blueprint of the club to be changed into 3-4-3. All age groups from our Under 14's to Seniors play high pressing 4-3-3/4-2-3-1.

That's understandable when you view the entire footballing structure, and I can accept that (especially if there's not much difference between Slot or Amorim) but say hypothetically a few years down the line, Klopp Part II comes along and we have the opportunity to hire, having taken, oh I dunno, Borussia Monchengladbach to a league and Champions League and is a raging success with 3-4-3.

Does the club say 'no thanks' purely because of the formation?

[mattD]

Who has said they've picked Slot purely due to formation and style of play? There are multiple reasons why they've picked him over other candidates. Barring Xabi, who ruled himself out.

I didn't say they purely appointed him for that! But Melissa Reddy said it was a big selling point. All I'm saying is surely a generally similar playing style is good enough requirement to hire a manager, and that rigidly adhering to a formation shouldn't really be a selling point?

[danm77]

Sporting coach Ruben Amorim had made Liverpool's shortlist, and despite the external noise over him, the club always maintained he was not the leading or preferred option.

He ticked several requirements, but his playing approach - particularly using three at the back - and long-term vision did not fit the current squad nor the philosophy implemented through all age groups at Liverpool.

Suggestions that financial reasons were behind Amorim not being the frontrunner for the Anfield job has been termed fiction.

There has also been scepticism around the reasons for the 39-year-old's very public meeting with West Ham, with one intermediary suggesting Amorim was trying to pressure Liverpool by showing them he had other options.

The club had already judged Slot as the better football fit before that point, as well as a superior communicator and connector.

The character references sourced for every candidate also established him as a top pick.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/13123431/arne-slot-to-liverpool-final-agreement-close-as-feyenoord-boss-reveals-he-wants-to-be-jurgen-klopp-successor

[danm77]

I didn't say they purely appointed him for that! But Melissa Reddy said it was a big selling point. All I'm saying is surely a generally similar playing style is good enough requirement to hire a manager, and that rigidly adhering to a formation shouldn't really be a selling point?

Yes but there were obviously other reasons on top of the playing style.

[mattD]

Yes but there were obviously other reasons on top of the playing style.

Which I understand, but surely formation shouldn't be a requirement for hiring a manager.

[Jon2lfc]

That's understandable when you view the entire footballing structure, and I can accept that (especially if there's not much difference between Slot or Amorim) but say hypothetically a few years down the line, Klopp Part II comes along and we have the opportunity to hire, having taken, oh I dunno, Borussia Monchengladbach to a league and Champions League and is a raging success with 3-4-3.

Does the club say 'no thanks' purely because of the formation?

I might be one of the few who thinks that the pure Klopp/heavy metal style has had its day in terms of it not being sustainable and it putting a lot of stress on players.
A refined heavy metal style is probably what's needed. Call it an evolution of style, if you wish.
Maybe Slot is the one who can deliver it.

[rob1966]

Make you wonder how many kids who come through top academies and ten don't quite make it, suffer from (mostly unrealised and/or undiagnosed) depression.
I would be it's a disturbing amount.

Its devasting for them and fucking cruel the way they are treated. Mates lad was at Arsenal for years and then got cut, it was brutal. My lad was only 7 when he went to Citys academy, lasted a few months, got cut, walked away from footy, he just lost all confidence, they don't give a shit about the kids. Thousands will have the same story.

That's understandable when you view the entire footballing structure, and I can accept that (especially if there's not much difference between Slot or Amorim) but say hypothetically a few years down the line, Klopp Part II comes along and we have the opportunity to hire, having taken, oh I dunno, Borussia Monchengladbach to a league and Champions League and is a raging success with 3-4-3.

Does the club say 'no thanks' purely because of the formation?

If its an absolutely stand out candidate like Klopp was, then you'd think the club would be felxible. However, the new guy is following one of the best managers in the world and whoever we get isn't yet at Klopps level, so they need to work with what we have. I can see it though that if the new man, Slot or whoever, decides tweaks are needed and proves they work, say going to a 3-4-3, then the club will adapt to suit, but it'll be a gradual controlled process, not a change it now approach.

[Jon2lfc]

There's something to be said about a baldman that refuses to grow out a beard to balance things out. It's something Alan Titchmarsh would describe as "big dick energy".

...or maybe when he tries to grow a beard it just comes out wispy and patchy.

I like the fact that he has a distinct look, in any case.

If he grew a beard we might be landed with a Ten Hag younger-fat-brother lookalike.
No ta.