Topic: If Liverpool fucked off the Premier league, how would you feel?

[Kashinoda]

This thread is a bit Bluemoon circa 2018.

Maybe Andy has been Stat Man Gaz all along. 🤔

[Ghost Town]

This thread is a bit Bluemoon circa 2018.

Maybe Andy has been Stat Man Gaz all along. 🤔

" 'Ang on! 'Ang on!"

[Macc77]

Well, that was interesting.

We had a great afternoon in Clermont Ferrand and the hotel was the nice enough.

The game was a typical mid-table (error strewn) clash and Clermont won 2-0 - it felt Championship, maybe league 1 standard - although Clermont have a useful lad up front - Saif-Eddine Khaoui.

The stadium (I use the word lightly) was the possibly the weirdest ground I've ever visited. It's dominated by a huge main stand with an arch but the other three 'stands' were almost non-league standard, with gaps (and old fashioned floodlight towers) in the corners. The 'away' end just looked like those 'bleachers' you see at American college sports or low-ranking athletics venues here in the UK.

The worst bit? FENCES!!!

I got horrible Hillsborough anxiety.

It was a nice enough day trip with the missus, but I won't be going back.

I'll be cheering Stockport on later... I need to unpack and stuff.

Well you have to check these things out before you can judge I suppose. The idea of French football at a certain level does give off Championship vibes, without maybe the Championship level crowds, but nothing wrong with that per se. I can enjoy non league football in a crowd of 3-4,000, but as you hint, the atmosphere, ground and vibe has to be in tune with what you're seeing on the pitch I suppose. Top league football in lower division surroundings, played by players who aren't top level, etc, could be frustrating after a while unless you're tribally and culturally connected to it all.

Maybe look further down the ladder so that the on field and off field stuff match up a bit better. But France is a strange one in footballing terms really. A top 5 or 6 economy, got a bit of global clout, produce world class players and have amazing cities that should attract overseas stars and attention, but their football has never really been that good domestically. Most of their best players end up leaving, and the only ones that stay do so for the PSG money, which is really unique for a country regarded as a footballing giant in terms of its international team. Players leave Germany, Italy and Spain of course (using examples of similar nations in terms of reputation) but nowhere near as much as French players do. It's always interested me that it's been that way.

[A Red Abroad]

Well you have to check these things out before you can judge I suppose. The idea of French football at a certain level does give off Championship vibes, without maybe the Championship level crowds, but nothing wrong with that per se. I can enjoy non league football in a crowd of 3-4,000, but as you hint, the atmosphere, ground and vibe has to be in tune with what you're seeing on the pitch I suppose. Top league football in lower division surroundings, played by players who aren't top level, etc, could be frustrating after a while unless you're tribally and culturally connected to it all.

Maybe look further down the ladder so that the on field and off field stuff match up a bit better. But France is a strange one in footballing terms really. A top 5 or 6 economy, got a bit of global clout, produce world class players and have amazing cities that should attract overseas stars and attention, but their football has never really been that good domestically. Most of their best players end up leaving, and the only ones that stay do so for the PSG money, which is really unique for a country regarded as a footballing giant in terms of its international team. Players leave Germany, Italy and Spain of course (using examples of similar nations in terms of reputation) but nowhere near as much as French players do. It's always interested me that it's been that way.

Yeah, France is deffo a bit weird in football terms. Rugby (and even Handball) seems to have a better following.

I'm gonna look for something more local - even if it's amateur/semi-pro.

Thanks for your interest - appreciated.

 


PS: I got a text from my niece after Stockport's loss. Her lad had a right sulk on. I bet her journey back to Manc was fun. 

[Iska]

It's always interested me that it's been that way.

Me too.  It’s just not a football country in the same way that its neighbours are.  Ultimately I think the reason is that it never became an industrial economy in the same way, it remained always more tied to the land – so they never had those huge rapid population dumps in the late Victorian period who needed to coalesce round some new identity, like you had in say Glasgow or the Ruhr or Turin.  The big passionate French clubs are in the north-east, where there was industrialisation, or in Marseille (not really sure what the history is there).  Obviously there are decent clubs in the other cities but I don’t think a Lens or a Lille could emerge in Toulouse or Bordeaux, they’re different kinds of thing.

It’s maybe a bit like how football isn’t the same type of thing in East Anglia or the South West (or London even) - they just never quite had the right population mix to ignite the spark that was all over the North West.  People don’t live for the game in those places.

[A Red Abroad]

Me too.  It’s just not a football country in the same way that its neighbours are.  Ultimately I think the reason is that it never became an industrial economy in the same way, it remained always more tied to the land – so they never had those huge rapid population dumps in the late Victorian period who needed to coalesce round some new identity, like you had in say Glasgow or the Ruhr or Turin.  The big passionate French clubs are in the north-east, where there was industrialisation, or in Marseille (not really sure what the history is there).  Obviously there are decent clubs in the other cities but I don’t think a Lens or a Lille could emerge in Toulouse or Bordeaux, they’re different kinds of thing.

It’s maybe a bit like how football isn’t the same type of thing in East Anglia or the South West (or London even) - they just never quite had the right population mix to ignite the spark that was all over the North West.  People don’t live for the game in those places.

Docks.

[Iska]

Docks.

Speaking of docks, there’s a nightmarish scenario going on in Ligue 2 where Le Havre have been cruising way clear most of the season but are having a hell of a wobble at the end – one point from their last three games, and even that was an 88th minute equaliser.  There’s one game to go, and they have a home banker, but if it goes wrong they can be overhauled by both Bordeaux and Metz on the last day of the season and miss out on promotion entirely.

[A Red Abroad]

Speaking of docks, there’s a nightmarish scenario going on in Ligue 2 where Le Havre have been cruising way clear most of the season but are having a hell of a wobble at the end – one point from their last three games, and even that was an 88th minute equaliser.  There’s one game to go, and they have a home banker, but if it goes wrong they can be overhauled by both Bordeaux and Metz on the last day of the season and miss out on promotion entirely.

Nice one. I'll look out for the games on 'le telé'.   

[Macc77]

Docks.

Indeed, and a massive North African vibe from centuries of migration. I think I said before, I love Marseille, been a few times and it's very much a Liverpool kind of city with a shiny waterfront and loads of attractions but a really edgy working class attitude everywhere, and of course the less savoury stuff that goes on.

My missus (who speaks perfect French) had a stand up argument with an old woman because she didn't let her sneak in behind her to get into through the underground ticket barriers. She hadn't seen her behind her but got a mouthful from the old girl, and in a way that kind of said "what are you doing, not letting me through, that's what we do here!". As much as I was bemused I did have a smile on my face watching it and thought "yeah, I like this place".

[A Red Abroad]

Indeed, and a massive North African vibe from centuries of migration. I think I said before, I love Marseille, been a few times and it's very much a Liverpool kind of city with a shiny waterfront and loads of attractions but a really edgy working class attitude everywhere, and of course the less savoury stuff that goes on.

My missus (who speaks perfect French) had a stand up argument with an old woman because she didn't let her sneak in behind her to get into through the underground ticket barriers. She hadn't seen her behind her but got a mouthful from the old girl, and in a way that kind of said "what are you doing, not letting me through, that's what we do here!". As much as I was bemused I did have a smile on my face watching it and thought "yeah, I like this place".

 

Yeah, Marseille has its 'dangerous' areas but I like it (or at least I did last time I was there) - I like most dock/port cities - Bordeaux feels good too.

[DTRed]

I'd add another option to the answers:

"Ask me after the Abu Dhabi verdict"

[Iska]

Typically chaotic end to the season in Ligue 2.  Bordeaux match abandoned when a fan attacked a player.  Metz and Le Havre both winning but there was a pitch invasion in Le Havre just before the end of injury time and they can’t get it restarted to play the last twenty seconds.  It’s not clear what happens now and my stream’s just gone down. 

[Iska]

Sorry, the last nine seconds lol

Reading now that if the match were abandoned and Dijon awarded a 3-0 win, Dijon would avoid relegation. Quel bordel.

[Iska]

Hahaha, apparently Dijon refused to come back on, so the ref restarted the match and they played out the last nine seconds of the season with only one team on the pitch. Le Havre promoted as champions after all. Glorious stuff.

[Barneylfc∗]

Typically chaotic end to the season in Ligue 2.  Bordeaux match abandoned when a fan attacked a player.  Metz and Le Havre both winning but there was a pitch invasion in Le Havre just before the end of injury time and they can’t get it restarted to play the last twenty seconds.  It’s not clear what happens now and my stream’s just gone down. 

Attacked is a bit of a stretch.
The goalscorer was pushed, then both him and his team mate hit the ground like they were hit by a baseball bat.
Obviously don't condone anyone going onto the pitch, but the 2 players are a disgrace.

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1664719402535714818?t=34uXxKsnT5E8dx0oAs4CTg&s=19

[Iska]

Thanks, was just going off what I could read, thought I’d gathered that he’d been taken to hospital too. Maybe an ingrown toenail had become infected or something. That’s just a poor show all round to be honest - I mean there’s 25,000 or whatever there to see a promotion/relegation scrap and they abandon it over that.

[TheShanklyGates]

European Super League: Juventus signal intention to quit project

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65828703

[PeterTheRed ...]

Well, Abu Dhabi have managed to buy the Champions League before Qatar. Now, lets create the European Super League, and fuck off all of these state owned clubs from the European top competition ...

[Ghost Town]

Where's that Dreams and Reality pic when you need it?

[TheShanklyGates]

Well, Abu Dhabi have managed to buy the Champions League before Qatar. Now, lets create the European Super League, and fuck off all of these state owned clubs from the European top competition ...

Like trying to cure cancer by drinking bleach.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Like trying to cure cancer by drinking bleach.

Well, good luck watching Man City and Newcastle winning the next 10 Premier League and Champions League titles. Apart from watching LFC, I won't be bothering with those two competitions ...

[Ghost Town]

You never know, they may even name it the MRL (Mac Red League), after its most vocal advocate, and the person to whose wishes and desires it will conform precisely, because, of course, that always happens in life.

[Zlen]

Like trying to cure cancer by drinking bleach.

Superleague is not a cure. Its petrol on smouldering fire of corruption killing football. Which is why I will always support it. Burn the fucking thing. It will either come out the other side dead or purified. UEFA, FIFA, EPL… all so called custodians of the game are either corrupt to the bone, spineless or both.

[PeterTheRed ...]

You never know, they may even name it the MRL (Mac Red League), after its most vocal advocate, and the person to whose wishes and desires it will conform precisely, because, of course, that always happens in life.

Mate, I don't need the ESL. I am perfectly fine watching all LFC games, because I love the club, and filling the rest of my time for sports with Serie A, NFL and NBA. At least those competitions are interesting, and I don't know the winner in advance ...

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

Anyone else think we would fit well in the Atlantic League that was mooted a few years ago? It would include Anderlecht, Malmo a few other European sides and the Old Firm.

I know UEFA gave its blessing, but it hinged on Celtic. But Dermot Desmond is apparently holding out for some British breakaway which will never happen.

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

After this weekend what can you say

[Red_Mist]

After this weekend what can you say

Personally speaking, it’s had the opposite effect to thinking ‘what’s the point’? I want us to fight with everything we’ve got (all of us) to win this league. As others have said, no more feeling sorry for ourselves. Just a quiet, steely resolve to win. Use it. Channel it. Fuckin win it! 💪

[Son of Spion]

Personally speaking, it’s had the opposite effect to thinking ‘what’s the point’? I want us to fight with everything we’ve got (all of us) to win this league. As others have said, no more feeling sorry for ourselves. Just a quiet, steely resolve to win. Use it. Channel it. Fuckin win it! 💪

Same for me. Our eyes have narrowed now. We'll harness this and use it.

This is the time when we should all be standing up to be counted. Every last one of us. The bear has been poked. Now it's time for him to rip heads off all over this sorry excuse for a league.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Same for me. Our eyes have narrowed now. We'll harness this and use it.

This is the time when we should all be standing up to be counted. Every last one of us. The bear has been poked. Now it's time for him to rip heads off all over this sorry excuse for a league.

Spot on SoS.
It's why I cant stand all this "they'll have it in for us now" type talk from some of our fans. Hopefully we are making it abundantly clear that if there's even the slightest hint of retribution we'll take them and their sorry band of officials apart.

Fans worried about what other fans or dickhead pundits say need to grow a spine. As a club, if any ex-players in the media start talking bollocks against us, then I hope we review any work we ask them to do for us. Similarly next time some prick of a pundit decides to start some kind of agenda on one of our players for diving etc while giving players from other teams a free pass, I hope the club starts firing off some legal threats about defamation etc.

The time for sitting back and letting things go has passed. Acting with dignity has got us nowhere and we're at the point were things can hardly get any worse in terms of how we're treated by officials, so fuck them.

Fans making excuses for the Jones red can do one too. Clearly not a red on a standalone basis. Definitely not a red judging by the many unpunished assaults on our players over the years.

[Samie]

Saves Us ESL!

[I've been a good boy]

As bad as this league is, not sure I want to be in a league with the likes of Abu Dhabi, Juventus and Barcelona. And you just know at some point they'd start inviting teams from Saudi.

[Legs]

Spot on SoS.
It's why I cant stand all this "they'll have it in for us now" type talk from some of our fans. Hopefully we are making it abundantly clear that if there's even the slightest hint of retribution we'll take them and their sorry band of officials apart.

Fans worried about what other fans or dickhead pundits say need to grow a spine. As a club, if any ex-players in the media start talking bollocks against us, then I hope we review any work we ask them to do for us. Similarly next time some prick of a pundit decides to start some kind of agenda on one of our players for diving etc while giving players from other teams a free pass, I hope the club starts firing off some legal threats about defamation etc.

The time for sitting back and letting things go has passed. Acting with dignity has got us nowhere and we're at the point were things can hardly get any worse in terms of how we're treated by officials, so fuck them.

Fans making excuses for the Jones red can do one too. Clearly not a red on a standalone basis. Definitely not a red judging by the many unpunished assaults on our players over the years.

The problem is we can play as well as we like but you get a gang lile Saturday and you will struggle to win even if you are Brazil 1970 side !!

Our team will be up for it but we were done out of a probable 3 points and in a league that can be tight it can be the difference between 1st and 2nd as we have experience of.

I'll always back the team but its hard if its not a level playing field on the day

[rob1966]

Yeah, lets rip this fucking league apart this season, batter every fucking team and win it by a mile, while shitting on Peds baldy head and on that Saudi loving "don't mention the executions" c*nt Howe

[Ghost Town]

On the actual question in the thread title my view remains the same as it has been throughout. I have no problem with the idea of fucking off the PL and starting a new league - if we can find a league to join or a quorum of other teams willing to join us in a new league.

But it has to be a local league, within England, or at most the UK, so that clubs can remain linked to their traditional communities and so that fans can travel to away games as they do now without ridiculous calls upon their money and time

A European Super League is not the answer. Apart from the way it would wrench clubs away from their traditional communities, it would end up being something far worse than the PL currently is, with regards to the money trough and the abandonment of any last vestiges of integrity.

I know some people allowed themselves to be fooled by the "promises" that the ESL plotters made about fairness and spending limits and whatnot, but unless you were born yesterday you must know that those would not be worth the paper they were scribbled on once it got going, and once the money got concentrated within it (incidentally denuding other leagues and visions of their lifeblood)

I do, howerver, think it's fair to say that the PL might have had it's day. It has not shown itself as existing for the betterment of football or for the promotion of sporting integrity, especially in recent years. A failed enterprise that needs replacing.

In particular any replacement needs to be organised and managed not by the clubs themselves but by an independent body with a clear mandate to ensure integrity and fairness and with the power and wherewithal to sanction individual teams regardless of any notions about 'brand'.

[Hymer Red]

Yeah, lets rip this fucking league apart this season, batter every fucking team and win it by a mile, while shitting on Peds baldy head and on that Saudi loving "don't mention the executions" c*nt Howe

Cant fault this argument! Ive been thinking we are going to batter someone soon now I think we are going to REALLY batter someone soon

[Dubred]

Saves Us ESL!

You're our only hope 😁

[Redwhiteandnotblue]

You're our only hope 😁

Move along! These aren't the leagues you're looking for.

[kavah]

Just having a look at the map now and I see the problem in football terms - you are basically equidistant from everywhere. 

I was once on holiday in that part of France and had a two hour roundtrip to get the ale in - camping miles from anywhere - Came back with 4 crates of Kronenbourg Panache, those little stubbies to keep us going for a couple of days, took the first swig and it was fucking shandy, couldn't believe it, I've never been so angry (until the spurs game).

       You realize what a big country France is and what a c*nt the fella in the offy was for not telling me (when I took it back I was like "do I look like a want to drink 96 bottles of shandy you fucking quilt"), weirdly found a pub called the Liverpool on the way back - in the middle of nowhere 

[Red_Mist]

I was once on holiday in that part of France and had a two hour roundtrip to get the ale in - camping miles from anywhere - Came back with 4 crates of Kronenbourg Panache, those little stubbies to keep us going for a couple of days, took the first swig and it was fucking shandy, couldn't believe it, I've never been so angry (until the spurs game).

       You realize what a big country France is and what a c*nt the fella in the offy was for not telling me (when I took it back I was like "do I look like a want to drink 96 bottles of shandy you fucking quilt"), weirdly found a pub called the Liverpool on the way back - in the middle of nowhere 

The fella’s not sayin anything…he’s thinking, “thank fuck some daft get’s had all this shandy i got by mistake from the wholesalers”

[Historical Fool]

I think that the original ESL idea was awful, and completely unprepared. Collecting the top clubs only from the top 5 leagues, including Man City and Chelsea, completely overlooking traditional big clubs from the smaller leagues who have even won the European Cup, was a complete bullshit.

Any professional continental league must include the clubs from all European countries (or at least the majority of them), even if that means 3 or 4 tiers with 72 to 96 clubs. Only that way the fans from all countries will consider the ESL something close to them.

There is no real chance of LFC playing the likes of Vardar Skopje or Slovan Bratislava in the ESL. These clubs will always be in the 3rd or 4th tier of the ESL, while LFC will always be in the 1st one, unless something terrible happens, and we are relegated to the lower tiers.

I know that for a football fan from England clubs even from Scotland, Ireland, Wales and Northern Ireland don't mean much, but the reality is that the ESL would inject money into these countries' football, and will allow for them to keep their most talented young players at home for much longer. Instead of going to the academies of the English clubs at the age of 14-15, the young players from these countries will develop and play some respectable level club football in their home countries, until they are finally ready to join the very best European clubs as senior players.

This will be the same for all the countries around Europe outside the top 5. European powerhouses like Ajax or Benfica will once again compete at the top, and the likes of Red Star Belgrade or Steaua Bucharest will once again have strong teams.

To summarize, the idea about the ESL that I am pushing for is a pretty socialist idea of spreading the football wealth around entire Europe, instead of concentrating it in a few leagues, or even worse, in a few clubs.

Of course, this ESL model could only work if the state owned clubs are not allowed into the league system. Even more important, a 100% fair model of revenue sharing must be implemented, so the revenues from the ESL will be fairly distributed to all European countries, based on very strict criteria.

The salary cap is a must, with strict control of the spending, and severe punishments (including ejection from the ESL league system) for the cheating clubs.

A strong and professional refereeing organisation is also a must, with the best referees from around the World hired, as the pinnacle of the refereeing profession.

And last, but not least, the farming system. These ESL clubs, especially from the 3rd and 4th tier, will first look for talent close to their locations. It will be in their best financial interest to invest in academies in their own countries, with competent coaches and modern facilities, instead of paying big money for foreign players. Lets not forget, Red Star Belgrade were the European Cup winners with only Yugoslav players, apart from Belodedici who was a Serbian from Romania ...

Yes, this all makes sense (as usual from PTR) …