Topic: Loan Watch 2016-17

[TepidT2O]

i have decided to look at this as a win win scenario

Sakho doesnt come back we will get a lot of money

if he does so be it. we still have a more than decent defender on the books

But he won't come back.  He shouldn't come back either...

Klopp is quite within his rights to lay the law down...

But for Sakho, coming back would be wrong.  Why?

Well, he needs to play, he gets stroppy when he doesn't.  He's walked out when not selected before.  He wouldn't be selected every game, we can't have players doing that.  But more, he needs to play every game.  He needs to be the big name at a club. Not because he's hideously vain etc, but because he's the kind of personality who wants to take that on.  Sadly for him, he's not good enough to be that rock at Liverpool (not a criticism as such, but at best he's only as good as our other CBs)

Best deal both ways.  He won't go to a big club, and there's a reason for that, but he's still a really good player.

[paulrazor]

i have posted enough times in other threads on disciplinary issues and i agree with the steps klopp took. not posting it all again.

fwiw i think he is done here

[harryc]

Shame really as he could have saved us a few quid, not easy finding a top CB esp with our transfer policy.

Would have been good to see him next to Matip, Lovren is not a first choice CB for me.

[kingz]

The love for Sakho here is wired. Klopp is great with the players and he always defended them even after mistakes like he did with Moreno so when he dont want Sakho near the team its for a very good reason ..

[Fromola]

Aye, Sakho is the sole difference between where we are and competing for the title

Fucking hell.

Chelsea are out on their own this season but with Sakho in the team all season we'd be up with Spurs at least.

It'll cost 30 million to buy a player of his quality unless we can find a gem.

[paulrazor]

to say we would win the league with him is nonsense.

people look for excuses when we lose. If we lost saturday there would have been another 5 pages in this thread minimum after last night with palace. I dont recall too many calling for him when things were going well in December.

[Titi Camara]

Chelsea are out on their own this season but with Sakho in the team all season we'd be up with Spurs at least.

It'll cost 30 million to buy a player of his quality unless we can find a gem.

You think Sakho in this team would have got us another 8 points this season to date? That's a bold claim however you look at it.

[Tjfruits]

Sakho is a good defender. Just awful at times on the ball. What people are missing is this doesn't make a difference at palace, whereas to us it's massive.

[Fromola]

You think Sakho in this team would have got us another 8 points this season to date? That's a bold claim however you look at it.

Yes I'd say so.

[Fromola]

Sakho is a good defender. Just awful at times on the ball. What people are missing is this doesn't make a difference at palace, whereas to us it's massive.

He's a front foot defender who never shirks. Yes he can make a rick or two but so can David Luiz who's been the best in the league this season and playing for the champions.

Sakho is fantastic on the ball. Plays you out of trouble and starts a lot of attacks. Better than Stones who went for  50 mill for being good on the ball and he's much better defensively.

[Jookie]

Yes I'd say so.

Did you think we would have won the Europa League if Sakho was available last May?

[paulrazor]

We would have won the Grand National and US Masters if he was around too

Damn you to hell Jurgen

[Pistolero]

Yes I'd say so.

personally I think if he was still here, a combination of his Jekyll / Hyde / brilliant / calamitous defending plus the negative effects a bad apple can have on team morale and togetherness, we'd probably be scrambling to make the top six....

[Titi Camara]

Yes I'd say so.

It's a difficult one to argue with, it's obviously hugely subjective but I just don't see it.

Maybe if he was playing against Bournemouth instead of Klavan we get the 3 points rather than one. But he's not infallible, he does make defensive errors, maybe he costs us somewhere else.

He's not bloody Baresi ffs, I'll accept that when Klavan's played at times he's cost us but I don't accept Sakho coming in would have saved us 8 or that he wouldn't have given some away himself.

[Sheer Magnetism]

You think Sakho in this team would have got us another 8 points this season to date? That's a bold claim however you look at it.

Bold but not implausible. If we concede two goals at Bournemouth in January instead of four we win that game instead of losing it, same if we concede one instead of three against Swansea the next month. If we concede one less in the West Ham, Sunderland and Bournemouth draws we win those. I don't think there's any argument that the quality of our defence hasn't cost us, and I also don't think there's much argument that Sakho and Lovren when played together were an excellent partnership. Even in their one genuinely dodgy game against Dortmund they both scored.

I also think the argument about team spirit doesn't hold up - was there a deficiency in team spirit last year when he was one of our key players? I can accept he's going at the end of the season but unless he ends up being used as a makeweight in a Van Dijk deal I don't see how the decision to exile him can ultimately be judged as any kind of success, especially when we'll probably pay big money in the summer for someone who may well be a worse player.

[Fromola]

Did you think we would have won the Europa League if Sakho was available last May?

I dont think we'd have collapsed like that in the final.

Sakho was key in that run to the final. He'd done a good job of covering Moreno too.

[Jookie]

Here's a potential scenario. Mamahdou Sakho doesn't take fat burners without asking prior permission of the club. He doesn't miss the end of last season. I don't buy he's one of the best defender in the league but let's assume he is. He's lining up for us in the Europa League Final. Giving support and adding stability to the problematic LHS of our defence. Leading 1-0 at half time, we hold on to a 1-0 victory and win a record 4th UEFA/Europa league title. In doing so, we qualify for this season's CL group stage. This provides additional cash and lure so we don't miss out on transfer targets last summer. We go into this season on an a high with a couple of extra high quality additions and Mamahdou Sakho marshalling the backline. That strength in-depth allows us to compete on all fronts.

That could have all happened if Mamahdou Sakho didn't take fat burners. It's at least as plausible,as us being 8 points better off if he'd played this season.  It was Sakho's decision, and his alone to take the fat burners. It was also his decision, maybe through naivety, not to tell the club he was taking fat burners. It's his fault we went into the Europa League Final with an under strength team. It's his fault that we missed out on CL revenue and potentially better squad depth for this season.

I can sort of understand why Klopp might be a bit annoyed. But you know what it looked like he gave him another chance in preseason. Other manager's wouldn't have. He'd have been launched out of the club for taking the fat burners alone. Now I don't know about you but I'd be pretty sheepish in Sakho's shoes in the summer. Keep my head down and work my way back into the manager's good books. What I wouldn't do is turn up late for a flight, turn up late for training, miss a rehabilitation session and dick around in a TV interview in my 1st week back in work.

I wouldn't then refuse to go on loan and give up a chance to play my way back into the club. I wouldn't then go on Snapchat to complain about the manager 24 hours before a crucial league game.

This whole scenario is down to Mamahdou Sakho. He's better than Klavan and Lucas, he's arguably better than Lovren and Matip, but the man has had numerous chances and he's pissed them away. I don't give a fuck if he's our best defender he's shown an complete incapacity to understand team discipline and what is expected of him as a professional footballer at Liverpool Football Club.

If you can't understand why Klopp is pissed off with Sakho then I despair. This whole situation is down to Sakho's behaviour. It starts with him (taking fat burners) and it ends with him. Anyone who is annoyed about our centre back depth should aim their ire in his direction. Not that of the manager.

[El Lobo]

Word.

[paulrazor]

I dont think we'd have collapsed like that in the final.

Sakho was key in that run to the final. He'd done a good job of covering Moreno too.

he probably would have played instead of Kolo who was of the few and maybe the only player who did well in second half

whole team collapsed. one player wouldnt have solved that

[So… Howard Philips]

I dont think we'd have collapsed like that in the final.

Sakho was key in that run to the final. He'd done a good job of covering Moreno too.

But isn't the reason for Sakho's absence in the final a key part of Klopp losing patience with him?

If he hadn't gone off on a frolic of his own choosing taking unverified fat burners, when his team mate Toure had received a six month ban for a similar offence, he might have played in the final (and might have made a difference to the outcome) and he might have represented his country in the Euros.

We will never know but his unprofessionalism finished his relationship with Klopp.

He is decent but not much better. Plenty of better centre backs around.

[Rouge]

But isn't the reason for Sakho's absence in the final a key part of Klopp losing patience with him?

If he hadn't gone off on a frolic of his own choosing taking unverified fat burners, when his team mate Toure had received a six month ban for a similar offence, he might have played in the final (and might have made a difference to the outcome) and he might have represented his country in the Euros.

We will never know but his unprofessionalism finished his relationship with Klopp.

He is decent but not much better. Plenty of better centre backs around.

Not based on the latest comments of our old under 23 manager who said Sakho was a model professional when he was banished to the under 23 squad, helped the young players and in his opinion would improve us, but you know better of course

[Fromola]

he probably would have played instead of Kolo who was of the few and maybe the only player who did well in second half

whole team collapsed. one player wouldnt have solved that

The collapse happened after their goal from kick off which Sakho could well have stopped covering Moreno. We looked like collapsing at Old Trafford in the first half but it was Sakho who just about held us together and helped us play out from the back to avert the pressure.

Sakho would have been on the left covering Moreno whereas Lovren wasn't covering properly.

I'm not defending Sakho's actions. Just saying how frustrating it is when we struggle defensively and know how good Sakho is when he's fit.

[So… Howard Philips]

Not based on the latest comments of our old under 23 manager who said Sakho was a model professional when he was banished to the under 23 squad, helped the young players and in his opinion would improve us, but you know better of course

I don't know better but hopefully Klopp does.

[Jookie]

Not based on the latest comments of our old under 23 manager who said Sakho was a model professional when he was banished to the under 23 squad, helped the young players and in his opinion would improve us, but you know better of course

I don't think anyone is arguing he'd make us better on the pitch.

You are completely ignoring why he was banished to the under 23's. Just so you understand:

1. He took fat burners without the club's consent. You don't need to be a genius to realise you are taking a massive risk doing this
2. He missed a pivotal part of last season because HE choose to take fat burners without the club's consent. Hurting himself but more importantly the club's chances of winning a trophy AND getting CL qualification
3. In the 1st week of pre-season, he infringed club disciplinary measures on numerous occasions
4. He refused to go out on loan at the advice of the club
5. Via social media he started moaning about his exclusion and the manager. 24 Hours before an important league game.

It was after this multitude of discretions that he buckled down for a few months with the under-23s. The horse had bolted by that point. Not matter how good he is or what he done in the U-23s his actions between April and July are indefensible. He took the piss and thought he could get away with it. He's learnt the hard way that he can't take shortcuts under Klopp. We let c*nts like Ruddock take the piss under Evans and things untangled pretty quickly. I, for one, am glad that Klopp has taken this action. No one is bigger than the club even if that means some short term pain. Team discipline and application is the key to any successful team. Sakho might have all the ability in the world but he's not shown the consistent application to get the most out of his ability. 6 good games at Crystal Palace doesn't change that fact one little bit.

[mickeydocs]

I don't ever recall Sakho being treated like this by the London media when he was playing for Liverpool.
Now he plays for Palace it is like he has transformed into the second coming of Baresi.

Very good player and a decent bloke by all accounts. Clearly not in our long term plans.
He is playing very well and will now cost quite a bit more than he would have cost in January allowing us to reinvest in defensive replacements based on players Klopp wants.

[SlowRap]

I don't think anyone is arguing he'd make us better on the pitch.

You are completely ignoring why he was banished to the under 23's. Just so you understand:

1. He took fat burners without the club's consent. You don't need to be a genius to realise you are taking a massive risk doing this

Did you miss the bit where the case had been thrown out because it wasn't on the list of banned substances at the time?

2. He missed a pivotal part of last season because HE choose to take fat burners without the club's consent. Hurting himself but more importantly the club's chances of winning a trophy AND getting CL qualification

Not only this but he missed the Euros in his home country - for what turned out to be a none-crime

3. In the 1st week of pre-season, he infringed club disciplinary measures on numerous occasions

And he apolgised for it, to put it into perspective Firmino was charged with drink driving, he endangering his life and the lives of innocent people, but has still received unquestionable support from Klopp. My point is that Sakho's crime did not deserve the punishment of being frozen out for months - if you look at Chelsea and at how Conte handled Costa's outburst; it was the perfect blue print as to what should have been done with Sakho; take him out of the team for a few weeks and then get him back in the fold.

Klopp's point was made "don't fuck about", but he cut the nose off to spite the face, we needed Sakho when we played Klavan, we needed him when we played Lucas out of position - Klopp should have saw this - especially as he didn't buy an upgrade during the January transfer window - It was poor management of resources and has cost us a title challenge.

4. He refused to go out on loan at the advice of the club

Fighting for your place is now a negative? Especially when he's the best defender at the club bar Matip (who's in his first season and plays on the right hand side of the defense and is a perfect partner for Sakho)

5. Via social media he started moaning about his exclusion and the manager. 24 Hours before an important league game.

That's because he thought the club was lying about his availability saying he wasn't fit when he was.

It was after this multitude of discretions that he buckled down for a few months with the under-23s. The horse had bolted by that point. Not matter how good he is or what he done in the U-23s his actions between April and July are indefensible. He took the piss and thought he could get away with it. He's learnt the hard way that he can't take shortcuts under Klopp. We let c*nts like Ruddock take the piss under Evans and things untangled pretty quickly. I, for one, am glad that Klopp has taken this action. No one is bigger than the club even if that means some short term pain. Team discipline and application is the key to any successful team. Sakho might have all the ability in the world but he's not shown the consistent application to get the most out of his ability. 6 good games at Crystal Palace doesn't change that fact one little bit.

Again we have a star player who literally put lives in danger, imagine if he had killed someone, how detrimental that would have been not only to the families but to the reputation of the club. Sakho has come out and apologised for his behavior - that's good enough for me.

[DanA]

Sounds like Markovic has found some form of late. Hope he continues this way but I think he's well and truely done at Liverpool

[El Lobo]

Sounds like Markovic has found some form of late. Hope he continues this way but I think he's well and truely done at Liverpool

If Firmino has a future after drink driving, then surely Markovic deserves a future after not drink driving?

[Titi Camara]

Did you miss the bit where the case had been thrown out because it wasn't on the list of banned substances at the time?

He didn't know that at the time. He took a huge risk doing what he did.

...imagine if he had killed someone...

Imagine if Sakho had caused himself a heart attack and killed himself.....

...what a load of shite, no one killed anyone!

[Funky_Gibbons]

Did you miss the bit where the case had been thrown out because it wasn't on the list of banned substances at the time?

Did you miss the bit where he didn't inform the club doctor he was taking a fat burner?

[NaivetyinBlack]

We only know one side of the story. And Klopp always liked to play favorites and carried long grudges. Ask BvB fans.

Now before you all jump on me, I'm not saying Klopp was wrong. Sometimes, though you need information from both sides.

And I love Mama, but also don't think we cannot do better. The only way Klopp can mess this up is if he sold Sakho and we had Kalavan,Lovren and Gomez as Matip's foil for the next season. I would be astounded if that happens.

[Jookie]

Did you miss the bit where the case had been thrown out because it wasn't on the list of banned substances at the time?Not only this but he missed the Euros in his home country - for what turned out to be a none-crime 

Without sounding all Ron Burgundy and a bit 'my apartment smells of rich mahogany' but I've worked closely with drug testing labs as part of my work. In some reports it has been alleged that Sakho took Higenamine. Higenamine is a beta-2 adrenoreceptor agonist. In the latest WADA guidelines all beta-2-agonists are prohibited. It even lists Higenamine at the list of banned substances. In April 2016, I don't think Higenamine was listed but beta-2 agonists were prohibited.

Therefore what Sakho allegedly took put him in a grey area. Who knows if this was intentional or not. What I do know is that any athlete taking Higenamine as a fat burner in 2016 was taking a massive risk. It's something that would get you a ban today.

Putting that aside. Any sportsman at a professional level is made fully aware that they should consult a club doctor before taking any medication or dietary supplement. I find it inconceivable that anyone would take a 'drug' without consulting with the club.

Any player taking a supplement without the club's consent is putting themselves at unnecessary risk. It's easily avoidable and removes the risk of a suspension when the case is investigated.

This is unfortunately the situation we were in. It was all rather unnecessary but there's only one person to blame in this scenario. It's compounded by the other subsequent actions of indiscipline.

I'm not going to get into the Firmino issue and don't think it's relevant to Sakho. However, I won't condone drink driving. Not in any circumstance. It's one mistake though. Sakho's has been a multitude of disciplinary issues. Not as serious as drink driving but in a sporting sense it points to someone who doesn't have the necessary consistent application and discipline to succeed and make the most of their ability. They can basically become someone who can't be trusted. That's not something you want as a manager in any business.

[paulrazor]

If Firmino has a future after drink driving, then surely Markovic deserves a future after not drink driving?

what on earth as Firmino drink driving got to do with markovic?

ludicrous post

[B0151?]

It just seems pointless getting worked up about Sakho. Looks like he's finished here, I think it's a shame too but it is what it is. Klopp is much more important to us at the end of the day.

[Titi Camara]

what on earth as Firmino drink driving got to do with markovic?

ludicrous post

Don't quote me on this but I think that may be his point?

[Aceldama]

I've never done drink driving either, in fact I'm pretty well behaved all round. Surely I too should have a future at the club?

[paulrazor]

Don't quote me on this but I think that may be his point?

ok i wont

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

ok i wont

but you just did 

[Titi Camara]

[CraigDS]

I've never done drink driving either, in fact I'm pretty well behaved all round. Surely I too should have a future at the club?

Nope. We've accepted a bid from Accrington Stanley for you.