Author Topic: Racism in Football  (Read 149613 times)

Offline nuts100

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1360 on: December 9, 2020, 06:52:38 pm »
The thing is, this shit has reached a whole other level than just isolated incidents and ' is this okay for this'.

People are sick and fucking tired of the same shit. I was called a dirty black c*** for parking my car the other day... PARKING MY FUCKING CAR. This goes back so far but as a black man myself, enough is fucking enough. It's been going on for so long that sadly you are in a way forced to accept that it's going to happen.

It's so fucking disheartening to hear the same shit over and over and over. People are tired of being reminded of the fact they are black with stereotypes all the time, positive or negative. Living with shit like being followed by security if you walk into a shop, being treated differently in various social situations etc gets exhaustinggggg over years and it gets to a point where you wont take it any more. I've had grown men say to me as a child in my football games I should be on the wing because i'll be quick with no prior knowledge of my ability, I didn't get it at the time as I was a kid but that is not okay, i've got older and realised how many incidents of this shit occurred throughout my life and heard stories of family and friends who've suffered the same and we're expected to react how people tell us to, to react to things how people say, to be okay with something because 'this black person isn't offended soooo...'.

To a lot of people it's an overreaction because they are looking at the wrong aspects and aren't understanding what is meant by Ba. It's all good and well people saying 'he called him what he is' but you wouldn't use descriptive words for most groups in that situation, I wont name specific groups because I am sensitive to offending anyone from any specific group but in terms of things you could observe and use to describe someone, many things are deemed off limits and wont be used, but in cases like this its different.

I'm not suprised they walked. It doesn't happen for a lot of others, i'm not saying NO others as that isn't reflective of reality but for many people, they don't have to experience it a lot. When people are treated differently they are likely to have greivances

Again - brilliant post
I can't imagine being in your shoes - all I can do as a white middle aged man is listen. Hope that people of my race listen and are guided and help to overcome racism and deep ingrained prejudices. We cannot be the lead on this - we have to listen, listen some more and keep listening. Also we need a lot more diversity in all job roles. But when people have been attacked for years because of the color of their skin - seriously I have no words.

I'm struggling to write something as powerful as what you have written - but I can't.

Offline josh101

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1361 on: December 9, 2020, 07:00:45 pm »
https://twitter.com/Emishor

This Romanian football jounalist is claiming the officials were called Gypsies, and basically just throws in a lot more which doesn't look good on either side. Going to be messy this if all these claims go into the official report.

Yup. Reports are coming out that Webo had been referring to the referee team as Gypsies throughout the first 15 minutes. To call attention to that, the 4th official then said it was "the black one".

If this comes out to be a true what an awful look for the coach. Is being racist himself, then deflects from that by calling the fourth official racist when he wasn't being.

Offline darragh85

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1362 on: December 9, 2020, 08:39:23 pm »
if he was calling the officials that then there is recording of it ? with no crowd it should have been pretty easy to pick that up if he was saying it constantly.

reminds me of the time when Mihajlovic racially abused Vieira and he claimed Vieira called him that.

Offline NealFrom25Yards

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1363 on: December 9, 2020, 10:09:36 pm »
if he was calling the officials that then there is recording of it ? with no crowd it should have been pretty easy to pick that up if he was saying it constantly.

Saw the audio on Twitter. There's also an 8 minute video from RMC, with French subtitles for the audible moments, with multiple gypsy references.

Will try to find both and edit.

Edit - here's the first one, posted on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlH665KQScY

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1364 on: December 9, 2020, 10:13:43 pm »
Saw the audio on Twitter. There's also an 8 minute video from RMC, with French subtitles for the audible moments, with multiple gypsy references.

Will try to find both and edit.

Edit - here's the first one, posted on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlH665KQScY

Is this a joke?

Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1365 on: December 9, 2020, 10:35:41 pm »
Saw the audio on Twitter. There's also an 8 minute video from RMC, with French subtitles for the audible moments, with multiple gypsy references.

Will try to find both and edit.

Edit - here's the first one, posted on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlH665KQScY

This is the equivalent of a retraction to a front page headline on page 34 of the paper. Even if it is true it's too late in the court of public opinion

Offline Bobsackamano

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1366 on: December 9, 2020, 10:43:44 pm »
This is the equivalent of a retraction to a front page headline on page 34 of the paper. Even if it is true it's too late in the court of public opinion

If this is true the right wing media are going to go to town over this. To be fair i do feel too many people make judgements on all kinds of things these days too quickly, so maybe a few of the pitchfork carriers can be less hasty next time.

Then again maybe this audio is a pile of shite. Who the fuck knows these days!

Offline NealFrom25Yards

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1367 on: December 9, 2020, 10:50:42 pm »
This is the only video from RMC I can find. It's a shortened version (2:30):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmOHmUWe2a8

On their website where it's posted they say "Captured and detailed: The 7 minutes of turmoil in Paris" but the only video linked is this one.

Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1368 on: December 9, 2020, 11:06:26 pm »
John Barnes doesn't speak for all black people on this planet. There are several people ono this very thread who are black and have shared their views and how they feel on the matter.


John barnes ironically missing the point too.

John Barnes is top three for me in terms of what he did on the field (and quite a few of it as well). He is not top three when it comes to discussing politics or wider issues
It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1369 on: December 9, 2020, 11:12:31 pm »
Good discussion and enlighthing. I am middle aged, white if that is a word, privileged, and i hate political correctness being used - but I can't get me head around. The 4th official was just wrong in 2020
It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline StevoHimself

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1370 on: December 10, 2020, 12:42:33 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/audio/2020/dec/09/manchester-united-tumble-out-of-the-champions-league-football-weekly-podcast

Very interesting discussion on Guardian Football Weekly (their bi-weekly football podcast that I'm sure people will be familiar with) regarding the booing of Millwall players taking the knee the other week, as well the situation subsequently.

Conversation lasts from about the 37 and a half minute mark to about 50 mins in, and deals with some of the stuff I was trying to talk about on here, ie the complicated tension between an uncomfortable attempt to see it "from the other side" and the fundamental immorality of bowing to the pressure of racists.

For full disclosure, Barney Ronay is a white, Millwall-supporting, writer for The Guardian. Jordan Jarrett-Bryan is black sports journalist and reporter.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1371 on: December 10, 2020, 02:02:41 am »
What is commonly being ascribed as "racism" nowadays, is often little more than a group of people with good self-awareness who practice thoughtful and effective language filtering.....all piling on top of others who demonstrate poor self-awareness and non-effective language filtering.

I'm not entirely sure there's any real "hearts and minds" progression occurring with all of this however. Sometimes it just feels like the smugness of one group who possess good, working filters on their speech habits (and know it)....pouncing all over those who for whatever reason....haven't quite got with the program yet.

Whether or not those who evidence themselves as being "not quite with the program" yet....are that way because they harbour racist attitudes or because they are perhaps just a tad slow on the uptake when it comes to modern propriety I'm still a bit unsure.

It just feels like, somewhere within the "zero tolerance" policy, there's a hell of a lot of band-wagon jumping by those who feel super-confident, that whatever their other sins in life are....they'll never let themselves be caught out when it comes to "words."

I think what I'm positing here, is that it's quite possible to be the biggest bastard that ever walked the earth, but at the same time....somebody whose intelligent enough to never put so much as a word wrong.....especially in any known place where "words" alone, fall under the greatest degree of scrutiny.

So this utter "bastard" for example, could actually be one of the most vociferous and condemnatory opponents of what we might call "vocalised" racism or prejudice, but its only a position he can bask in, because in spite of being the utter bastard that he is, he is smart enough to know that he'll never be caught sinning in this manner himself....because the one good thing this utter bastard has got going for himself is his tremendous self-restraint and good command of his own output.

He can then use this "virtue" about himself..... to join in with all of the other voices and place himself in camp "good-guy" because he knows its one camp he'll never compromise himself with, and knowing deep down what an utter bastard he really is, it might be quite useful to readily ally himself with anything which can hide this fact....as far as others might perceive him.

So...whilst the world's going super-crazy about anybody and everybody who just can't regulate their own output and end up being leapt upon as a "racist".....our utter bastard regularly joins in with the outrage, and he can only get away with doing this because in spite of all the many bastardly things he does and thinks....he CAN regulate HIS output.

As for the other poor sods who can't however.....well why not let the wider world think THEY are the utter bastards. Let their stupid "tongue-slips" and improprieties take all the judgemental heat that the modern zeitgeist can hurl at them.

But somewhere within camp "good guy" amongst the merry throng of outrage, there could well be lurking some of the biggest, most hypocritical band of bastards....whose only true "virtue" is their talent for never being likely to be caught uttering racist phrases.

Being the utter bastards that they are however, they can "think" what they like about racial issues and know it, because as things currently stand, its only those who use certain "words" who kop any censure....whilst thoughts.....as most utter bastards well know, will never compromise, so long as they remain just that.

I'm not saying that racial impropriety or discourtesy should not be greeted with the concern or censure it merits....

Merely that being all outraged and condemnatory about it is something that "anybody" who is intelligent enough to censure their own output can join in with....even if they have very little else to recommend them as a person of true virtue, and that in some cases, it's a very easy and "useful" bandwagon to jump on, in order to portray themselves as being a person of principle and integrity.

This has not been an easy point to raise, and I'm not necessarily making it in the context of those "who get offended on other people's behalf."

I'm merely saying that the opportunity to be disingenuous about racial issues is there.....and it is especially accessible by those who CAN regulate their own output. Regardless of other (less obvious) flaws they may possess in private.

"We can only respond and react to what we see and hear others doing or saying..."

...one may argue.

But whilst that's very true, it does provide the kind of fertile, societal ground that many an "utter bastard" can easily exploit.


YNWA

Offline The Real Rasta

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1372 on: December 10, 2020, 02:14:47 am »
Saw the audio on Twitter. There's also an 8 minute video from RMC, with French subtitles for the audible moments, with multiple gypsy references.

Will try to find both and edit.

Edit - here's the first one, posted on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlH665KQScY
That first bit is completely unintelligible and what's been conveniently left out in the second part is whoever is saying about in my country they are gypsies is they follow that with 'but I can't say that'.

https://twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336658828205699073

Offline NealFrom25Yards

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1373 on: December 10, 2020, 04:49:22 am »
What's been conveniently left out in the second part is whoever is saying about in my country they are gypsies is they follow that with 'but I can't say that'.

https://twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336658828205699073

Appreciate the added context, cheers...but for me it doesn't make that remark any better.

I'm Jamaican. If somebody said to me "In my country, black people are called *insert derogatory term of your choosing here*...but I can't say that" it doesn't hit any less. It's just a more snide way of saying it.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1374 on: December 10, 2020, 06:07:16 am »
Saw the audio on Twitter. There's also an 8 minute video from RMC, with French subtitles for the audible moments, with multiple gypsy references.

Will try to find both and edit.

Edit - here's the first one, posted on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlH665KQScY

If this is true then that guy Webo really fucked it up, because this will trigger many people.

Yeah the ref got banned, but this will generate more racism I'm afraid. Even without this, the comments in social media are toxic since last night.
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1375 on: December 10, 2020, 07:11:52 am »
I would wait for better evidence than a clipped and repeated bit of untelligible audio overlayed with text claiming what things 'apparently' are, from a random Youtube account.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1376 on: December 10, 2020, 10:28:10 am »
Appreciate the added context, cheers...but for me it doesn't make that remark any better.

I'm Jamaican. If somebody said to me "In my country, black people are called *insert derogatory term of your choosing here*...but I can't say that" it doesn't hit any less. It's just a more snide way of saying it.
I don't know if you watched this live but I did and the defense being made was in my country it's ok to say this so I think it absolutely was a fair and fine comment/point to make in that context.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1377 on: December 11, 2020, 10:11:07 am »
I love John Barnes but I dont like how he has run to the Torygraph to make his view point. That paper is keen to get shot of the kneeling before games and is firmly on the right.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1380 on: December 25, 2020, 09:12:15 am »
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/24/slavery-family-and-football-malik-al-nasir-andrew-watson-first-black-international-footballer?__twitter_impression=true

Shameful to read things like that went on.

The overall racism or the claim that the NF were running around the Annie Road End in 1977?

I was a match going regular then, mainly the Kop, and never heard any talk, rumours or tittle tattle that the NF had insinuated themselves into our fan base. If they had they'd have been roundly fucked off.

Offline Machae

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1381 on: January 28, 2021, 01:33:47 pm »
Idiots need to be arrested. Governments across the world need to start bringing in laws and fine Social Media firms for not doing enough to tackle these issues

Man Utd 'disgusted' at racial abuse sent to Axel Tuanzebe and Anthony Martial

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55813101

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1382 on: January 28, 2021, 02:21:23 pm »
Idiots need to be arrested. Governments across the world need to start bringing in laws and fine Social Media firms for not doing enough to tackle these issues

Man Utd 'disgusted' at racial abuse sent to Axel Tuanzebe and Anthony Martial

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55813101

Is there any indication of whether it's rival "fans" or man United "fans"

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1383 on: January 28, 2021, 03:19:02 pm »
They need to bring in some sort of ID confirmation for social media in my opinion. It's so easy to create an instagram account using an email address you dont even need to verify for example.

Offline aw1991

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1384 on: January 28, 2021, 03:30:46 pm »
Is there any indication of whether it's rival "fans" or man United "fans"
Surely it makes more sense for it to be United "fans" upset about the result?

Scum of the earth, shame they can't be identified.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1385 on: January 28, 2021, 04:03:28 pm »
Surely it makes more sense for it to be United "fans" upset about the result?

Scum of the earth, shame they can't be identified.

That's what I thought, I've just not seen it stated, which struck me as odd

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1386 on: January 28, 2021, 06:09:01 pm »
I remember when we being portrayed as a racist club by all the media during Kennys last stint as manager. Pretty sure they had a fan  charged and convicted after running down to the front of the stand to racially abuse an opposition player around the same period. It got less than a quarter of a column in the papers while we got double page spreads every day.

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Micah Richards: Tackling Racism, SKY Sports.
« Reply #1387 on: January 30, 2021, 11:23:16 pm »
I worried about starting a separate thread, given the fact there’s a ‘Racism in Football’ thread lower down the page. But the mods will need to decide whether this needs to be merged or even scrapped.

Anyone watching tonight, or when it first aired?

I really like Micah. I think he’s a far better, and more articulate broadcaster than he is credited with; and far better than some of those who’ve been around a long time.

I mentioned in a post last week that it was disturbing how often other posters wrote disparaging stuff on RAWK about him, stuff that whilst not in any way racist, was nevertheless dismissive.

He’s really worth listening to; and if you haven’t caught up with it, I urge you to watch it.
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Re: Micah Richards: Tackling Racism, SKY Sports.
« Reply #1388 on: January 30, 2021, 11:33:52 pm »
I cannot stand listening to him,he's everything that's wrong with these pr trained talking heads,he's got a few cliches that he constantly trots out and when he gets out of his depth he brings out that annoying laugh,best thing about him is that he isn't Jermaine Jenas but even that is a close call.

I would watch it if it wasn't for him.
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Re: Micah Richards: Tackling Racism, SKY Sports.
« Reply #1389 on: January 30, 2021, 11:44:58 pm »
I cannot stand listening to him,he's everything that's wrong with these pr trained talking heads,he's got a few cliches that he constantly trots out and when he gets out of his depth he brings out that annoying laugh,best thing about him is that he isn't Jermaine Jenas but even that is a close call.

I would watch it if it wasn't for him.
Please watch it.
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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1390 on: January 31, 2021, 08:26:24 am »
scum - anyone that spews racist sentiment

i don't think we should be arguing whether it's their own fans or rivals - that's not the point

we know it's societal thing because if a dad is racist then his son (or daughter) will usually be racist too - and you can be sure that his mates will be, as well as the pub he drinks in etc etc

open racism was definitely more prominent as i was growing up - and even ignorant racism too - so it is definitely lessening as we move to a more multicultural society and people realise that they are not going to 'fade away' and we don't have to 'fear' our multicultural neighbours no matter what the media likes to report

all you need is one headline in the press about a gang of muslim men abusing young white girls and then all of a sudden it's every muslim man that is a possible rapist including your neighbour or the local shop-keeper who charges you 'over the top' prices - with people forgetting that that shop-keeper is providing the local community with a 'convenient' shopping option to save bus and taxi costs and needs to compete with the local megastores so you can literally pop to the local shop when you need something

the media definitely has a role to play in this as well as social media but do we gag these voices or give them enough rope to hang themselves


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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1391 on: January 31, 2021, 11:09:48 am »
So thats Rashford, James, Tuanzebe and Martial suffering racial abuse this week. No doubt many more.

What is the actual benefit of social media? Nobody seems to want the authorities to have private details of the individuals that post on there. Nobody seems to want to ban it. Social media does very little about it.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1392 on: January 31, 2021, 11:44:37 am »
Is there any indication of whether it's rival "fans" or man United "fans"
This is exactly what I think, there were people online saying Klopps had it and we need a change, could be anyone  - as I said to some of my mates. Lets face it what club would not want Klopp ?

I was brought up to never believe everything you read in the newspapers, yet some believe everything they read online, cant fixed stupid.

Verifying IDs would work but every employer looks at social media for prospective employees and it could be a relatively harmless opinion - say expressing support for a cause or espousing socialist views - that could cost you a job. Its a tricky balance because every government would love to limit free speech under the cover of clamping down on perceived law breaking.

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1393 on: January 31, 2021, 11:55:02 am »
So thats Rashford, James, Tuanzebe and Martial suffering racial abuse this week. No doubt many more.

What is the actual benefit of social media? Nobody seems to want the authorities to have private details of the individuals that post on there. Nobody seems to want to ban it. Social media does very little about it.

It depends entirely on what part of social media you spend time. It's like everything in life it depends on the people posting and their motives. I hate this idea that nothing good happens on social media, when I have benefited really well from bits of it. If you are talking just about the football side of things than it can be a cesspit but that does not mean everyone is the same. As usual, we only get to hear the negative side of stuff like this, but in truth there are is a good side to it if you choose the right people to converse with. As far as stuff like this is concerned anyone found posting racist shit should have their account immediately shut down and face a charge.
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Offline stockdam

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1394 on: January 31, 2021, 01:54:59 pm »
This is exactly what I think, there were people online saying Klopps had it and we need a change, could be anyone  - as I said to some of my mates. Lets face it what club would not want Klopp ?

I’d suggest that almost anyone who is famous gets abuse online. It’s all vile and the level of hatred thrown at most famous people is disgusting. In fact you don’t have to be that famous to be on the receiving end......even people on TV shows like Bake-off get it.

I don’t know the details but I’d say that Jesy Nelson of Little Mix got more than her fair share of abuse. Any abuse aimed at an individual is wrong and some people can laugh it off whereas others can’t.

Abuse is a vile way of trying to hurt people, whether it is about their skin colour, weight, appearance, gender, age, wealth...........it is all hurtful.

Sorry I don’t mean to detract from racial abuse............it’s abhorrent and deep rooted in our society.



Verifying IDs would work but every employer looks at social media for prospective employees and it could be a relatively harmless opinion - say expressing support for a cause or espousing socialist views - that could cost you a job. Its a tricky balance because every government would love to limit free speech under the cover of clamping down on perceived law breaking.

Verified IDs is the way forward. Employers would not be able to access the data so they wouldn’t be able to determine who was posting any more than they can now. As for the argument about freedom of speech, you cannot throw racist abuse at somebody and claim that you have a right to say whatever you want to. Yes there is a risk that some people will get a ban from social media incorrectly but I’d rather take that risk than allow racists to be able to say whatever they want to.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 01:58:03 pm by stockdam »
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Offline norecat

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Re: Micah Richards: Tackling Racism, SKY Sports.
« Reply #1395 on: January 31, 2021, 09:12:01 pm »
Whenever I watch Micah Richards, Jermaine Jenas or Ian Wright I just don't find them very insightful or eloquent. Of the three I would respect Wright most because of his brilliance as a player. I find Garth Crooks annoying as well. I don't want a scenario where a token black player or woman is on the panel just to tick boxes. One person I do enjoy listening to is Chris Hughton. Eloquent and a class act.
I have no problem with Micah Richards or any black player discussing racism. But I think to have a woman or black player on a match analysis panel in a token context to be patronising to the people on there. I want whoever is on the panel to be there on merit and not to tick some quota box.
In terms of racism itself. Clearly racism is wrong. But silencing racists isn't the answer. Not in the sense that people should be abused but silencing is not eliminating. The racist still has the same flawed thinking. It's about educating people who for whatever reason feel minded to abuse someone because of their colour or creed or gender.

Offline mickeydocs

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Re: Micah Richards: Tackling Racism, SKY Sports.
« Reply #1396 on: January 31, 2021, 09:27:55 pm »
The racist still has the same flawed thinking. It's about educating people who for whatever reason feel minded to abuse someone because of their colour or creed or gender.

Educating is a huge part of the solution. However insisting on diversity metrics is essential.
Greater than 90% of pundits are absolutely cringeworthy irrespective of their race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation. The majority are purveyors of banality.

Micah Richards is no worse than Phil Thompson as a pundit. They both wear their hearts on their sleeve and have genuine love for their former clubs. They are both reasonably light hearted and will split opinions. I really like Wrighty as a pundit, possibly because he has often stuck up for Liverpool but also because he comes across as a genuine pundit.
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Re: Micah Richards: Tackling Racism, SKY Sports.
« Reply #1397 on: January 31, 2021, 09:38:28 pm »
Educating is a huge part of the solution. However insisting on diversity metrics is essential.
Greater than 90% of pundits are absolutely cringeworthy irrespective of their race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation. The majority are purveyors of banality.

Micah Richards is no worse than Phil Thompson as a pundit. They both wear their hearts on their sleeve and have genuine love for their former clubs. They are both reasonably light hearted and will split opinions. I really like Wrighty as a pundit, possibly because he has often stuck up for Liverpool but also because he comes across as a genuine pundit.

I agree with both parts of that.
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Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Micah Richards: Tackling Racism, SKY Sports.
« Reply #1398 on: January 31, 2021, 09:39:04 pm »
Can't stand Micah Richards.

Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: Racism in Football
« Reply #1399 on: January 31, 2021, 10:27:41 pm »
Manutd and Chelsea fans are the worst in this league. Racist bastards.
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