Topic: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.

[Fromola]

Worrying about these Tory taxation plans. Looks like they really are going to go Scorched Earth - steal Labour's taxation plans to fund tax cuts, whereas Labour wants the money to invest in services. They really will be working with a bare cupboard if it goes through.

I have almost no hope that there would be sufficient Tory rebels ideologically opposed to this to vote it down.

That was an infuriating thing with Truss. All that money pissed away on unfunded tax cuts. Could have at least put that money to something useful.

Tories are simultaneously bemoaning the state of services (after 14 years of managed decline and cuts), yet their answer to this problem is more cuts to services (via tax cuts). It's basically austerity 2.0. Utter lunacy. They'll lose anyway but they haven't got a coherent policy between them.

[TSC]

Worrying about these Tory taxation plans. Looks like they really are going to go Scorched Earth - steal Labour's taxation plans to fund tax cuts, whereas Labour wants the money to invest in services. They really will be working with a bare cupboard if it goes through.

I have almost no hope that there would be sufficient Tory rebels ideologically opposed to this to vote it down.

That’s the problem when a party is landed with such a huge majority post GE, they can effectively do whatever.  Boot may be on the other foot after the next GE, if current polls are correct, although that remains to be seen.

Of course for most (if not all) on here the big difference is the power would then sit with Labour as opposed to this Tory government.

[oldfordie]

That was an infuriating thing with Truss. All that money pissed away on unfunded tax cuts. Could have at least put that money to something useful.

Tories are simultaneously bemoaning the state of services (after 14 years of managed decline and cuts), yet their answer to this problem is more cuts to services (via tax cuts). It's basically austerity 2.0. Utter lunacy. They'll lose anyway but they haven't got a coherent policy between them.

I think this government have just gone too far now so everybody's noticed. everybody's pissed off by it but this has done my head in for years.

Tory voters believe the Torys record of debt is far better than Labours, it's not true, even if we ignore the debt this government have piled up the official stats prove the Tory Government's record on debt is still far worse than Labour Governments but the biggest point doesn't seem to be appreciated. even if Labours record of debt was slightly worse than the Torys then shouldn't we at least appreciate this money was spent on improving standards of living, the NHS, Schools. taking millions out of poverty, care. nope it's never even been mentioned. the Torys not only put the country in more debt, they run the country down to the bone doing it.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Labours price to win Rochdale by-election has been slashed over the last hour or so. Galloways price has drifted out. both are roughly Evens meaning the bookies think it's a toss up right now. a no win situation really but be happy to see Galloway walloped, he will walk away for good if beaten hopefully.

Who have you bet on?

[west_london_red]

I think this government have just gone too far now so everybody's noticed. everybody's pissed off by it but this has done my head in for years.

Tory voters believe the Torys record of debt is far better than Labours, it's not true, even if we ignore the debt this government have piled up the official stats prove the Tory Government's record on debt is still far worse than Labour Governments but the biggest point doesn't seem to be appreciated. even if Labours record of debt was slightly worse than the Torys then shouldn't we at least appreciate this money was spent on improving standards of living, the NHS, Schools. taking millions out of poverty, care. nope it's never even been mentioned. the Torys not only put the country in more debt, they run the country down to the bone doing it.

It’s actually quite impressive in a depressing way, taxation is the highest it’s been since the 1940’s, debt the highest since the 60’s, we’re borrowing £100 billion a year, and yet public services are still fucked.

[oldfordie]

Who have you bet on?

Nobody, Labours price cut again. now odds on 8/11, they were around 2/1 this morning.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Nobody, Labours price cut again. now odds on 8/11, they were around 2/1 this morning.

'

Thats not a good market
I used to bet against Liverpool, like taking out insurance against a bad weekend

could put a tenner on GG if the odds drift out

[oldfordie]

'

Thats not a good market
I used to bet against Liverpool, like taking out insurance against a bad weekend

could put a tenner on GG if the odds drift out

I like a bet on the GGs as well but couldn't back Galloway.
Both evens again. someone must have shown the GG supporters how to vote.

[oldfordie]

It’s actually quite impressive in a depressing way, taxation is the highest it’s been since the 1940’s, debt the highest since the 60’s, we’re borrowing £100 billion a year, and yet public services are still fucked.

I know what you mean, it would be hard to blow so much money without doing something that actually helped people. the answer of course is incompetency. chop something that costs £5 bill without consideration. effect is we actually end up spending £20 bill for a worse service.
That's one of the few positives we can take from the last 14 yrs. the public now see the connection to cuts to care etc and how the NHS have to pick up the tab.. took us long enough, decades this has been going on.

[Red Beret]

That’s the problem when a party is landed with such a huge majority post GE, they can effectively do whatever.  Boot may be on the other foot after the next GE, if current polls are correct, although that remains to be seen.

Of course for most (if not all) on here the big difference is the power would then sit with Labour as opposed to this Tory government.

Well the current Tory majority is 55. Sizeable, but it wouldn't take many Tory defectors to defeat a piece of legislation like this. Thirty at most. But even a relatively low number as that are likely to turn.

It’s actually quite impressive in a depressing way, taxation is the highest it’s been since the 1940’s, debt the highest since the 60’s, we’re borrowing £100 billion a year, and yet public services are still fucked.

The entire country has gone Full Everton.

[TepidT2O]

Prediction for tonight. 

If Galloway loses he will quickly threaten legal action and say his lawyers have been informed.

You will never hear of this legal action at any time again in the history of humanity

[jillcwhomever]

It'll be a smart move by Hunt, if he does do it.  It wont save the Tories though.

But, it will mean Labour will have less to offer.  Obviously, they could say the Tories are pinching our policies, which would be correct.

It just shows how stupid voters are if they fall for that Tory ploy. They have been in power for how long they could have done it years ago if they'd been genuine about doing something about it. 

[TSC]

Labour will be really squeezed, if Hunt pinches their non dom policy, and the energy windfall tax.  He'll use them to fund tax cuts, which will leave Labour with no new money, at all.

That’s the problem with announcing manifesto items too early, especially when so far ahead in the polls, the opposition simply swipe them.  Of course if polls were tight or Tory’s were ahead, there’s zip chance Tories would adopt the non dom policy to fund tax cuts.

[Circa1892]

Labour will be really squeezed, if Hunt pinches their non dom policy, and the energy windfall tax.  He'll use them to fund tax cuts, which will leave Labour with no new money, at all.

Worse than no money really - the public spending cuts priced in are impossible. The Tories are “cutting” income tax so Labour has to raise it. It’s the only reason.

[Sangria]

That’s the problem with announcing manifesto items too early, especially when so far ahead in the polls, the opposition simply swipe them.  Of course if polls were tight or Tory’s were ahead, there’s zip chance Tories would adopt the non dom policy to fund tax cuts.

See those on a certain wing who've been constantly bellyaching about how Labour have no policies. Those who've been saying that the Tories will simply steal early-announced policies, citing recent history, were ignored. Or were countered, at the time, that having the government adopt such policies is good opposition.

[TheShanklyGates]

Massive win for Galloway in Rochdale.

George Galloway: 39.7% (12,335)
David Tully: 21.3% (6,638)
Tory: 12% (3,731)
Labour: 7.7% (2,402)
Lib Dem: 7% (2,164)
Reform: 6.3% (1,968)
Green: 1.4% (436)

Turnout 39.7%.

[Kashinoda]

Now we get to hear him talk shite for a few months until he loses the seat.

The whole thing has been a mess.

[BarryCrocker]

^ bloody hell 7%  Labour !

Will Labour change tack on Gaza now, or would that be generally unpopular in red wall constituencies - would the Tories benefit from that?

Is was for a candidate they disowned who's name couldn't be removed from the ballot.

[thaddeus]

Now we get to hear him talk shite for a few months until he loses the seat.

The whole thing has been a mess.

He's talking of standing up to 55 candidates.  They have the potential to be a thorn in the side of Labour, similar to Reform UK for the Tories but on a smaller scale.

Starmer and Reeves have taken their voters on the left for granted but right now I just want as many Tory MPs ousted as possible.  Galloway's win is good news for some of those Tories.

Lib Dems did terribly, again

Azhar Ali (on the ballot as a Labour candidate) - 2,402
Mark Coleman (Independent) - 455
Simon Danczuk (Reform UK) - 1,968
Iain Donaldson (Liberal Democrats) - 2,164
Paul Ellison (Conservative) - 3,731
George Galloway (Workers Party of Britain) - 12,335
Michael Howarth (Independent) - 246
William Howarth (Independent) - 523
Guy Otten (Green) - 436
Ravin Rodent Subortna (Monster Raving Loony Party) - 209
David Anthony Tully (Independent) - 6,638

[TepidT2O]

A very sad day for British politics. This dreadful human being should be nowhere near parliament

[Red_Mist]

Is was for a candidate they disowned who's name couldn't be removed from the ballot.

Exactly. Can’t read much into this one. Just stuck with that tit head in the Commons for a few months.

[killer-heels]

A very sad day for British politics. This dreadful human being should be nowhere near parliament

Dunno, feels like Parliament is the best place for loons and cranks. He wont be the only one there.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Starmer and Reeves have taken their voters on the left for granted

Id say they treated them with contempt, The Muslim vote too. Maybe that will change maybe it wont.

Count Binface and the monster raving loony party really missed an opportunity in Rochdale

[hide5seek]

Just keep the good ship Blighty on the same course towards the cliffs, throwing more and more people overboard every mile.

But maybe Labour will throw the odd lifejacket in, too - so let's all vote for them, because they mean well.

All the while, the billionaires and other parasites sip champagne on the beaches of nearby tropical islands shouting the occasional "Keep going, you'll be fine.... just don't change course or cast your envious eyes at our gilded lives and riches"

That's the way it'll be until people wake-up and demand real change. Not Labour's fault. People have been brain washed into being lickspittles.

[killer-heels]

See those on a certain wing who've been constantly bellyaching about how Labour have no policies. Those who've been saying that the Tories will simply steal early-announced policies, citing recent history, were ignored. Or were countered, at the time, that having the government adopt such policies is good opposition.

Thing is its such small fry. We dont even know exactly how much that tax loophole closure will raise but its not big at all. The only reason it gets mentioned a lot is because Labour politicians use it all the time because they have very little else to offer as a retail pitch when on TV.

[Libertine]

Grim that such a disgusting extremist is back in parliament. What a fucking mess.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Thing is its such small fry.

They should have gone small fry on the Green policies, chop it up. Dont say £28b.  say for example £1B to insulate homes and reduce your energy bills or £1B on green investment that will create new skilled green jjobs

Thren you dont have the £28b tag line that the Tories used to scare people.

[Circa1892]

^ bloody hell 7%  Labour !

Will Labour change tack on Gaza now, or would that be generally unpopular in red wall constituencies - would the Tories benefit from that?

They already have - and no. Galloway and the other cranks are exploiting the issue and would always find another one.

[kavah]

Is was for a candidate they disowned who's name couldn't be removed from the ballot.

Oh right. So no Labour candidate. I get it now.

[Red Beret]

Labour really dropped the ball on this. I hope they take a long, hard look at their candidate vetting process. Hopefully this scumbag won't be an MP too long. Come the GE he should be out on his arse.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Labour really dropped the ball on this. I hope they take a long, hard look at their candidate vetting process. Hopefully this scumbag won't be an MP too long. Come the GE he should be out on his arse.

He had a chance of winning before Azhar Ali was dropped by Labour.  Labours foreign policy is where GG sensed blood.
The Azhar Ali fiasco was a leg up to the winners podium

[Circa1892]

He had a chance of winning before Azhar Ali was dropped by Labour.  Labours foreign policy is where GG sensed blood.
The Azhar Ali fiasco was a leg up to the winners podium

He didn’t. He’s been a serial loser for years now and this is a bli. He’s a grifter who finds communities he can divide, leaves them in ruins and gets run out of town.

I wonder who’ll take his “racist crank of a left persuasion” pal to Fox’s “racist crank of the right persuasion” shot at London.

[Yorkykopite]

Oswald Mosley back in parliament. Saddam Hussein's bag carrier. I wonder if he'll try and make Rochdale a "Jew Free Zone" like he did when he was MP in Bradford.

[Circa1892]

Oswald Mosley back in parliament. Saddam Hussein's bag carrier. I wonder if he'll try and make Rochdale a "Jew Free Zone" like he did when he was MP in Bradford.

If he remembers where Rochdale is once he gets on the train down to Westminster I’m sure he’d give it a go.

[Kenny's Jacket]

He didn’t. He’s been a serial loser for years now and this is a bli. He’s a grifter who finds communities he can divide, leaves them in ruins and gets run out of town.

I wonder who’ll take his “racist crank of a left persuasion” pal to Fox’s “racist crank of the right persuasion” shot at London.

Your assesment of him is fair, but I dont think its accurate to say he didngt have a chance of winning before Labour dropped Azhar Ali

[Circa1892]

Your assesment of him is fair, but I dont think its accurate to say he didngt have a chance of winning before Labour dropped Azhar Ali

Possibly.

Galloway will be a horrible, horrible distraction - but the big lesson Labour have is their utter complacency that’s creeping in. There was no need to rush into this election after Tony Lloyd sadly passed away. They saw the headlines of winning three by-elections in a fortnight and took a seat for granted.

The Tories are a busted flush so it won’t matter now, but bodes terribly for a few years down the line. The arrogance of the advisors/strategists around the party are going to be a problem before long.

[Yorkykopite]

The most amazing feature of the Rochdale result was this bloke David Tully. An independent candidate, no political experience, no organisation, no canvass and he came a close second. I'd never heard of him until this morning. Anyone know what he stood for?

[Fromola]

Labour really dropped the ball on this. I hope they take a long, hard look at their candidate vetting process. Hopefully this scumbag won't be an MP too long. Come the GE he should be out on his arse.

This is the issue with this by-election. Trying to parachute people into safe seats has come back on them.

[Jiminy Cricket]

The most amazing feature of the Rochdale result was this bloke David Tully. An independent candidate, no political experience, no organisation, no canvass and he came a close second. I'd never heard of him until this morning. Anyone know what he stood for?

I just found a bit of information about Tully and his platform:

https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/elections/election-pitch/1743/david-tully

I think you'll like him, Yorky.

It is a pity that he did not have more backing - he might just have won.

[Red Beret]

Possibly.

Galloway will be a horrible, horrible distraction - but the big lesson Labour have is their utter complacency that’s creeping in. There was no need to rush into this election after Tony Lloyd sadly passed away. They saw the headlines of winning three by-elections in a fortnight and took a seat for granted.

The Tories are a busted flush so it won’t matter now, but bodes terribly for a few years down the line. The arrogance of the advisors/strategists around the party are going to be a problem before long.

On the flip side, this result could be a blessing in disguise. The complacency you allude to has just been doused in a bucket of ice water. I reckon every candidate going up at the next election is going to have their twitter thoroughly dissected and reviewed.

Grand Admiral Thrawn once said an error only becomes a mistake when you refuse to correct it. Labour have had their warning.