Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[PaulF]

One big advantage the Japanese have is a society built on putting others and the community first, ahead of naked individualism (hence the widespread wearing of masks which protect others, rather than just the wearer).

Is this though because they have had governments over the years that believe in society?Chicken and egg I guess.

[Zeb]

Its good to see that Karol Sikora getting attacked now by Piers Moron. Sikora has become a poster boy for all the people who want to remain positive and his approach is common of the ‘right’. I remember him being on Newsnight saying that healthcare should be privatised and clearly he is a proper right wing stooge.

It just seems wrong to be selling things on flawed premises. There are grounds for optimism about some things but selectively cherry picking leads to the situation Liverpool Council found themselves in when they decided to boost Sikora and ended up with a message completely at odds with the best expert advice they were being given. ie it's not all ok yet and we don't know about a 'second wave' or anything else right now, have a bit of care to follow social distancing etc.

[PaulF]

State of the protests in London - just shocking beyond belief.

The irony being we have a virus that affects the black and asian population the most, yet you have a huge crowd gathered together for 'black lives'.

The irony is utterly lost.

I've been out of the news for a bit. What is the 'aim' of the protests? Is there a 'goal' more concrete than one of showing outrage at the discrimination that still exists, or is there something specific that is the end goal.  Without a goal, I don't see how the protests can ever succeed . eg votes for women was a clear goal.  I guess if pepole are venting, that in itself is a goal.
Could the authorities, not be part of the protests? Organise a large meeting place and put down social distance markers.  I don't know , maybe hyde park, could be a large show of support by protesters without risking lives. Or is the protest significantly against the establishment too, so anything organsied like this would be rejected?

[DonniePeverley]

I've been out of the news for a bit. What is the 'aim' of the protests? Is there a 'goal' more concrete than one of showing outrage at the discrimination that still exists, or is there something specific that is the end goal.  Without a goal, I don't see how the protests can ever succeed . eg votes for women was a clear goal.  I guess if pepole are venting, that in itself is a goal.
Could the authorities, not be part of the protests? Organise a large meeting place and put down social distance markers.  I don't know , maybe hyde park, could be a large show of support by protesters without risking lives. Or is the protest significantly against the establishment too, so anything organsied like this would be rejected?

The irony is obviously lost that this virus has effected more black people (and asian people) - being hit the worst. Yet it's a 'black lives matter' protest.

Quite frankly it's very dangerous.

It's a very important protest, but to gathering in large numbers like this makes my blood boil. Clapping for the nurses and the NHS - these lot don't give a shit. We could easily see another spike in numbers, as these clueless idiots pass the virus around to their family members.

The white luvvies shown on the videos, bottles of wines, instagram pics at the ready, make my blood boil. All that sacrifice that some of us have gone through, missed funerals, unable to see family, etc and the vast majority of this lot (call my cynical) are out on a party.

There were plenty of ways to make a protest - cival disobodeince, close down motorways, refuse to go to work - but a large mass gathering is utterly shocking.

The police should have shut this down. But it gives the government now a convenient excuse when we see spikes.

[24/7]

The white luvvies shown on the videos.....

Errrrr. What's the point of a remark like that? In fact, that whole paragraph was unnecessary.

You seem very angry. I suggest you take a step away from the keyboard and find more productive use of the energy that's spilling out.

Additional: my best mate in the UK just posted pix of a rally he's been to today. Everyone in the pix is observing distance. The rally I'm going to next week will be organised along social distancing lines. Your anger and judgemental phrasing is not helping.

[Fordy]

State of the protests in London - just shocking beyond belief.

The irony being we have a virus that affects the black and asian population the most, yet you have a huge crowd gathered together for 'black lives'.

The irony is utterly lost.

What on earth are you talking about?

They is no evidence to show it effects BAME people more. Didn't you hear what the government said? The report didn't highlight the fact that a lot of BAME have been in front line so had more chance of catching it.

So unless a more detailed report is given I suggest you get your facts right.

Black lives do matter!

[PaulF]

@fordy, I think they did try to account for occupation in the death rates. Regardless of the reason though, BAME are taking the hit. There's no good reason why  they should be in occupations that put them at greater risk , nor in worse housing.  If there's an ethnic legacy such as multigenerational households then that's a different matter.

@24x7, be interesting to see if the socially responsible rallies get anywhere near as much coverage as the irresponsible ones. That's no reason not to be responsible of course.  Guess we both know the answer.

[jillcwhomever]

@fordy, I think they did try to account for occupation in the death rates. Regardless of the reason though, BAME are taking the hit. There's no good reason why  they should be in occupations that put them at greater risk , nor in worse housing.  If there's an ethnic legacy such as multigenerational households then that's a different matter.

@24x7, be interesting to see if the socially responsible rallies get anywhere near as much coverage as the irresponsible ones. That's no reason not to be responsible of course.  Guess we both know the answer.

I don't really understand what a "socially responsible rally" actually is. In all these rallies there will be people not social distancing who are strangers standing next to one another, therefore its dangerous while the R numbers are still high. There should be no demos and no raves going on at the moment at all.

[Fordy]

I don't really understand what a "socially responsible rally" actually is. In all these rallies there will be people not social distancing who are strangers standing next to one another, therefore its dangerous while the R numbers are still high. There should be no demos and no raves going on at the moment at all.

Blame Trump and Boris.

[UntouchableLuis]

There are a number of articles in the Echo today hinting that Merseyside could be put on a enforced lockdown as the numbers are amongst the highest at the moment. There has also been a number of raves in the woods that appear to be on the increase as well. What is the matter with these people? Have they always been so selfish?

Would any such lockdown have an effect on the football?

The amount of selfish teenagers I've seen during the last few months is incredible really. They've failed to believe there's a pandemic. The parents must have absolutely no control over them.

[PaulF]

I don't really understand what a "socially responsible rally" actually is. In all these rallies there will be people not social distancing who are strangers standing next to one another, therefore its dangerous while the R numbers are still high. There should be no demos and no raves going on at the moment at all.

Are you  Priti Patel?
Agree totally about the raves, though I do love a good EDM night myself.
But BLM and the environment issues will be here long after the pandemic is dealt with. And with the economy having taken a huge hit these issues need to be kept near the top of the agenda. They can't be allowed to be pushed down.

[Gnurglan]

I've been out of the news for a bit. What is the 'aim' of the protests? Is there a 'goal' more concrete than one of showing outrage at the discrimination that still exists, or is there something specific that is the end goal.  Without a goal, I don't see how the protests can ever succeed . eg votes for women was a clear goal.  I guess if pepole are venting, that in itself is a goal.
Could the authorities, not be part of the protests? Organise a large meeting place and put down social distance markers.  I don't know , maybe hyde park, could be a large show of support by protesters without risking lives. Or is the protest significantly against the establishment too, so anything organsied like this would be rejected?

I believe all of what we are seeing is basically a protest against the existing auhorities. We shared the fears of the virus, now we share the anger when we see the killing of a man in the US, but I think the anger and frustration is deeper and it's different so it's hard to say what the goal is.

Everyone has been locked inside because of the virus. For months we have talked about nothing else. I think people are fed up with what they see. We see people die. Some can't even go see their loved ones in the hospital, some have not even been allowed to say goodbye at a funeral. Healthcare systems all over the world have been exposed. We were all led to believe we'd be safe and we were not. The killing of Floyd is perhaps symbolic for how people feel. The existing authorities with the knee on his neck until he stops breathing. Whether it's your sources of joy (going to the pub, movies, concerts, football,...), your job or your chance to go and say goodbye at a funeral, I think people feel some connection to it when they see a man being killed by authorities that were supposed to protect us. We all have our reasons to be upset or angry and now when everyone is allowed out we want to have our say in the future too. Things have to change. We want new auhorities. Better ones. There may be a second wave of the virus coming, but I doubt people will go back and accept a new lockdown. Because of this, I suspect we will have more conflict going forward.

[jillcwhomever]

Would any such lockdown have an effect on the football?

The amount of selfish teenagers I've seen during the last few months is incredible really. They've failed to believe there's a pandemic. The parents must have absolutely no control over them.

I'm not sure, but unless certain people take some responsibility I fear Merseyside will be locked down yet again. It's not just teenagers either the number of old people walking around with no masks on, these people are at the biggest risk. It's just like people have taken leave of their senses. Not sure if the players could be moved away from the area maybe? It is one of the unknowns, not even sure how they deal with a local lockdown and whether the local authorities would have certain powers.

[jillcwhomever]

Are you  Priti Patel?
Agree totally about the raves, though I do love a good EDM night myself.
But BLM and the environment issues will be here long after the pandemic is dealt with. And with the economy having taken a huge hit these issues need to be kept near the top of the agenda. They can't be allowed to be pushed down.

There is a time and place, now is not the time. In some area infections are still going up yet people are going on demos and walking around shoulder to shoulder with strangers. At this rate the country will never come out of it.

[J_Kopite]

There is a time and place, now is not the time. In some area infections are still going up yet people are going on demos and walking around shoulder to shoulder with strangers. At this rate the country will never come out of it.

Its fucking outrageous to be honest, what are people thinking?

In a similar vein I was sent a video of a massive "block party" (another imported Americanism) in Harlesden which showed hundreds of people on the streets packed in close to each other drinking and smoking, it was so ridiculous even Dawn Butler (local MP) made a statement about it. The Borough of Brent, where Harleseden is located, has the highest amount of Covid cases in London and is one of the most diverse (ie, non white) places in the country. Wtf is wrong with these people?

Here's a link: https://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/dawn-butler-mp-condemns-harlesden-block-party-1-6683234

[Mr Benn please?]

Not sure whether the Abe government is entirely responsible for the relatively low fatality rate; he seems to be far too focused on the economy to be primarily concerned with public health issues. One big advantage the Japanese have is a society built on putting others and the community first, ahead of naked individualism (hence the widespread wearing of masks which protect others, rather than just the wearer).

Also, if policies are clearly explained, people will more readily comply with them, as again they're seen as being of benefit to the community. I think the clarity of government messages is important, as muddled messages result in patchy compliance. This applies everywhere, of course, not just Japan.

Yes it does seem societies with  a greater sense of community and concern about others and less emphasis on the individual seem to be dealing with this crisis better.

[Mr Benn please?]

There is a time and place, now is not the time. In some area infections are still going up yet people are going on demos and walking around shoulder to shoulder with strangers. At this rate the country will never come out of it.

Yes I would tend to agree. With social media etc. there are many ways of showing solidarity with BLM and the people being attacked by the police in America without gathering in large numbers in the middle of a global pandemic. I can't believe all the people protesting in London live near Parliament Square, so presumably some of them travelled there by public transport, putting even more people at risk.

[killer-heels]

Yes I would tend to agree. With social media etc. there are many ways of showing solidarity with BLM and the people being attacked by the police in America without gathering in large numbers in the middle of a global pandemic. I can't believe all the people protesting in London live near Parliament Square, so presumably some of them travelled there by public transport, putting even more people at risk.

Social media isnt going to have half the influence these protests have had.

[Mr Benn please?]

Social media isnt going to have half the influence these protests have had.

Before they became politicised didn't the weekly claps for the NHS start via social media? Millions of people across Britain all joining together to support something they felt was important. I'd be more than happy to support BLM in a similar way. I am not up for endangering myself and my family by being in a crowd of people at present though.

[TeddyTime33]

I've been out of the news for a bit. What is the 'aim' of the protests? Is there a 'goal' more concrete than one of showing outrage at the discrimination that still exists, or is there something specific that is the end goal.  Without a goal, I don't see how the protests can ever succeed . eg votes for women was a clear goal.  I guess if pepole are venting, that in itself is a goal.
Could the authorities, not be part of the protests? Organise a large meeting place and put down social distance markers.  I don't know , maybe hyde park, could be a large show of support by protesters without risking lives. Or is the protest significantly against the establishment too, so anything organsied like this would be rejected?

there's isn't really a clear goal to achieve because discrimination is so varied in society, disarm police? Harsher sentences for police crimes? There's many "goals" but it reality its really just outrage and the needless deaths at hands of police

[DonniePeverley]

We've seen 40,000 people killed. Risked an economic depression that could last a generation. Depression. Homelessness, suicides, mental health problems. Family members who gone through the unbelievable trauma of not being able to attend funerals of loved ones. NHS staff putting their lives on the line by treating ill patients. But to question why people would be protesting in the midst of an awful pandemic - you get accused of insensitivity.

[Peabee]

There is a time and place, now is not the time. In some area infections are still going up yet people are going on demos and walking around shoulder to shoulder with strangers. At this rate the country will never come out of it.

Sorry, but this is the fault of the police for killing George Floyd. Protests like this can’t be put on hold.


They should be wearing masks, though, I think that would help massively.  There’s a reason surgeons wear masks when opening up bodies. They prevent you spreading infection. The implication they don’t work was always ridiculous. I bought masks back in January.

There were massive shipments of face masks being sent out to hand out to protestors. They were confiscated by US authorities.

I back the protestors 100%.

[jillcwhomever]

Social media isnt going to have half the influence these protests have had.

It will continue to spread the virus around though, especially as some essential workers are reliant on public transport.

[TeddyTime33]

Are you  Priti Patel?
Agree totally about the raves, though I do love a good EDM night myself.
But BLM and the environment issues will be here long after the pandemic is dealt with. And with the economy having taken a huge hit these issues need to be kept near the top of the agenda. They can't be allowed to be pushed down.

fine and very true points but if football fans gather outside stadiums in 2 weeks it will be plastered all over the media has irresponsible, these are very clearly organised gatherings and I hope the people involved in setting them up are reprimanded

[jillcwhomever]

Sorry, but this is the fault of the police for killing George Floyd. Protests like this can’t be put on hold.


They should be wearing masks, though, I think that would help massively.  There’s a reason surgeons wear masks when opening up bodies. They prevent you spreading infection. The implication they don’t work was always ridiculous. I bought masks back in January.

There were massive shipments of face masks being sent out to hand out to protestors. They were confiscated by US authorities.

I back the protestors 100%.

I am talking about local areas in the UK, which are still battling with high virus rates. The way its going Merseyside will be locked down once again, I have every sympathy with what is going in the US but first we have to take control of the virus that is still running riot in some areas.

[killer-heels]

It will continue to spread the virus around though, especially as some essential workers are reliant on public transport.

Yes it will. But the protests and aggression cannot be replaced by any other form of protest and by the time the lockdown was over then they would not contain the same ferocity.

Its not great but its understandable why it came to this.

[rafathegaffa83]

Not sure whether the Abe government is entirely responsible for the relatively low fatality rate; he seems to be far too focused on the economy to be primarily concerned with public health issues. One big advantage the Japanese have is a society built on putting others and the community first, ahead of naked individualism (hence the widespread wearing of masks which protect others, rather than just the wearer).

Also, if policies are clearly explained, people will more readily comply with them, as again they're seen as being of benefit to the community. I think the clarity of government messages is important, as muddled messages result in patchy compliance. This applies everywhere, of course, not just Japan.

I read an article recently about Japan's approach that can be summed up as follows

- Thousands of public health nurses with experience in contact tracing that have been mobilized for COVID rather than the flu
- Simplified government messaging through a communication strategy that isn't vague or up for interpretation
- Culture that is willing adhere to the regulations by seeing the bigger picture: collective needs over individual wants

[24/7]

We've seen 40,000 people killed. Risked an economic depression that could last a generation. Depression. Homelessness, suicides, mental health problems. Family members who gone through the unbelievable trauma of not being able to attend funerals of loved ones. NHS staff putting their lives on the line by treating ill patients. But to question why people would be protesting in the midst of an awful pandemic - you get accused of insensitivity.

Nah, we question the motives of previously banned people coming back in here shouting the odds and being a general fuckwit. See you later Aaron.

[24/7]

This white luvvy ain't staying silent. Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my black ass.

[Dr. Beaker]

This white luvvy ain't staying silent. Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my black ass.

You sound like an anatomically strange person.

[PaulF]

You sound like an anatomically strange person.

Pickford in disguise?

[TSC]

Apparently this is now 15th day in a row since government stopped reporting the numbers of individuals tested each day.  Sky news just reported this. 

[PaulF]

Just seen pics on Facebook of a well behaved protest in mk. Chalk markings to distance people respected. Hopefully we will see lots of pictures like these on the news tonight.

[24/7]

Just seen pics on Facebook of a well behaved protest in mk. Chalk markings to distance people respected. Hopefully we will see lots of pictures like these on the news tonight.

That's where my mate was.

[24/7]

Pickford in disguise?

Nah mate my white arms are long enough to wipe my black ass...

[J_Kopite]

Just seen pics on Facebook of a well behaved protest in mk. Chalk markings to distance people respected. Hopefully we will see lots of pictures like these on the news tonight.

And here's Watford:



Great job guys.

[Welshred]

Yes it will. But the protests and aggression cannot be replaced by any other form of protest and by the time the lockdown was over then they would not contain the same ferocity.

Its not great but its understandable why it came to this.

Exactly. You can't hold this protest in 6 months time as it just won't have the same impact. Or is Jill really suggesting that this waits for a bit whilst more black men and women are killed by the police in America due to the colour of their skin or more black men and women are arrested and treated differently in this country again due to the colour of their skin? There's a melting pot right now and whilst the protests aren't ideal due to the COVID situation they are definitely relevant and needed.

[Welshred]

Apparently this is now 15th day in a row since government stopped reporting the numbers of individuals tested each day.  Sky news just reported this. 

I've mentioned this on this thread before and it's been mentioned on other social media as well, no one seems to care which is a shame

[Fromola]

There are a number of articles in the Echo today hinting that Merseyside could be put on a enforced lockdown as the numbers are amongst the highest at the moment. There has also been a number of raves in the woods that appear to be on the increase as well. What is the matter with these people? Have they always been so selfish?

Yet idiot Joe spent his time worrying about Liverpool fans celebrating. What are the police doing?

[Fromola]

There is a time and place, now is not the time. In some area infections are still going up yet people are going on demos and walking around shoulder to shoulder with strangers. At this rate the country will never come out of it.

Thousands at Piccadilly Gardens today. I thought every United and City fan were shielding in a bunker until a vaccine. You know if we win the league they'll be putting a caption of 'murderers' next to any group photographed celebrating.