Topic: Fabinho

[Melbred]

Shook off all the rust in the Porto game to turn in a game of real steadfastness when truly needed.

Somehow, I still think he is massively underrated by many people.

[Felch Aid]

Klopp allowing Keita and Henderson to push forward shows how much trust Klopp puts in him.

Just imagine even if you get past Fab you have VVD and Alysson waiting for ya.

[CraigDS]

Klopp allowing Keita and Henderson to push forward shows how much trust Klopp puts in him.

Just imagine even if you get past Fab you have VVD and Alysson waiting for ya.

If Gomez can manage a season at the level he has shown pre-injury then that’s going to be one strong central defensive 3.

[dirks digglers]

One of the striking things about this team is how over a period of a few years the amount of players you could sit and wax lyrical about has gone from a smattering to pretty much all eleven. That’s the mark of a really fine team, that you can enjoy the cohesiveness of the unit but then also cut out one player and analyse their qualities individually. Fabinho is like the world’s most glamorous magpie in that midfield. He puts in the ball nicking tackles and breaks up play like a seriously juiced Lucas but it’s all on a higher level of physicality. And that’s just one part of his game. He also benefited from one of the only decent refs in the Prem officiating yesterday, because you can bet your bottom dollar some refs would have given a foul on Hazard and maybe even a card for that great recovery steal. As it was, play on, Hazard’s rolling around was ignored, the crowd loved it and the game flourished.

[classycarra]

What he did so well yesterday was move the ball quickly at the right times, and take out the press from their front three and Loftus Cheel repeatedly. It wasn't without risk, but I don't think it ever went wrong. It showed what we had worked on during the week, and importantly it showed a faith and calmness that the system works.

In recent weeks where our performance has been less fluid we'd been seeing a lot more overly straight long balls more that belied our usual calmness. Sometimes those work very well, but they'd often cut out excellent options that were on with an easy pass. None of that yesterday though.

[an fear dearg]

If Gomez can manage a season at the level he has shown pre-injury then that’s going to be one strong central defensive 3.

A defensive diamond of Allison, Gomez, VVD and Fab would be class....reminds me of the Chelsea one mid 2000s of Cech, Carvalho, Terry and Makelele.  I always thought that this was the bedrock that the team on 2004-2007 or so was built on.  I reckon we could match it with that spine and then the mischief makers further forward.  Always loved Makelele,  so simple yet so effective.

[Bincey]

Loved his shoulder pass yesterday.

[Knight]

What he did so well yesterday was move the ball quickly at the right times, and take out the press from their front three and Loftus Cheel repeatedly. It wasn't without risk, but I don't think it ever went wrong. It showed what we had worked on during the week, and importantly it showed a faith and calmness that the system works.

In recent weeks where our performance has been less fluid we'd been seeing a lot more overly straight long balls more that belied our usual calmness. Sometimes those work very well, but they'd often cut out excellent options that were on with an easy pass. None of that yesterday though.

I only saw the 2nd half but we beat the press so brilliantly on a few occasions and it was in large part thanks to this man. His teammates trusted him to receive the ball, and he was able to pass it one touch into good areas. With him and Keita in the midfield our press resistance goes up many, many levels. It's going to take something to knock us out of the champions league this time round.

[RSoares21]

Just looking better and better. I'm really liking when he shields the ball and then just calmly clips out wide to the right to Trent in loads of space

[Hazell]

Loved his shoulder pass yesterday.

I knew my eyes hadn't deceived me. That was the past that started the move for the first goal I think too. Lovely stuff.

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

I knew my eyes hadn't deceived me. That was the past that started the move for the first goal I think too. Lovely stuff.

I expected the ref to give a handball, even though it clearly wasn't, as it happened, just as that is the exact sort of shit decisions refs make all the time.

[Hazell]

I expected the ref to give a handball, even though it clearly wasn't, as it happened, just as that is the exact sort of shit decisions refs make all the time.

Thought Oliver had a great game yesterday, could have given a foul against Salah for the first goal or against Fabinho on the challenge on Hazard in the first half. He made the right decision both times but we've seen ref's give those numerous times. Best ref in the league by far.

[cowtownred]

What he did so well yesterday was move the ball quickly at the right times, and take out the press from their front three and Loftus Cheel repeatedly. It wasn't without risk, but I don't think it ever went wrong. It showed what we had worked on during the week, and importantly it showed a faith and calmness that the system works.

In recent weeks where our performance has been less fluid we'd been seeing a lot more overly straight long balls more that belied our usual calmness. Sometimes those work very well, but they'd often cut out excellent options that were on with an easy pass. None of that yesterday though.

You see, I totally agree with this (apart from Loftus Cheel);  furthermore, has everyone noticed his weight of pass? It is perfect every time.

[pathetic]

Once again our best player IMO. I am glad we have finally got ourselves a proper CDM, one he have missed so long and I'm glad he also has a keen eye for a pass. What I like most about him is how intelligent he is on the pitch. There was a moment yesterday where he stopped Hazard in Chelsea's half with a tackle that the ref didn't whistle only for another one of our players to foul him and get the foul for chelsea. It stopped the attack in its bud and allowed us to compose ourselves and get bodies at the back. We have missed this intelligence in the middle of the park for a very long time and it's one of the main differences between losses and tight wins or draws.

[DelTrotter]

Thought Oliver had a great game yesterday, could have given a foul against Salah for the first goal or against Fabinho on the challenge on Hazard in the first half. He made the right decision both times but we've seen ref's give those numerous times. Best ref in the league by far.

Yep, he's excellent. Only reliable one.

[meady1981]

The clearing his nose out thing on Twitter is one of the most over hysterical reactions I’ve ever seen to anything and has re-enforced my hatred of that platform, the modern fan, and a large proportion of humans.

[AmanShah21]

One of the striking things about this team is how over a period of a few years the amount of players you could sit and wax lyrical about has gone from a smattering to pretty much all eleven. That’s the mark of a really fine team, that you can enjoy the cohesiveness of the unit but then also cut out one player and analyse their qualities individually. Fabinho is like the world’s most glamorous magpie in that midfield. He puts in the ball nicking tackles and breaks up play like a seriously juiced Lucas but it’s all on a higher level of physicality. And that’s just one part of his game. He also benefited from one of the only decent refs in the Prem officiating yesterday, because you can bet your bottom dollar some refs would have given a foul on Hazard and maybe even a card for that great recovery steal. As it was, play on, Hazard’s rolling around was ignored, the crowd loved it and the game flourished.

Only 12 months ago, there were a bunch of whipping boys in the squad. It was enraging to hear all this ridiculous crap about our players and how they were not good enough. Now we have none. Like zero that get significant gametime. Thats massive. It removes the negativity and we can all focus on the positive. I was so glad with Hendo playing blinder after blinder to quiet down all those last remaining idiots. That's how well we've done. Klopp and FSG have done a humongous clean up / rebuild job slowly and surely. When they said no doubters, they did go and do there share to get us there too.

[jckliew]

That was superb. If it was any other ref then it would've been given, not because it is a foul but because the refs are shit.

Does anyone have the gif on this tackle?  Glorious tackle! 

[an fear dearg]

I'm wondering if Grujic would be earmarked for next season as his understudy? Haven't seen enough of him but is he the same type of player?  Would be great if we had a player who could slot in and give Fab a rest as the season develops

[mc_red22]

I'm wondering if Grujic would be earmarked for next season as his understudy? Haven't seen enough of him but is he the same type of player?  Would be great if we had a player who could slot in and give Fab a rest as the season develops

They're completely different types of players.

[Yorkykopite]

It's the speed with which he circulates the ball. The whole team goes up a gear when he's no. 6.

[Bob Sacamano]

Has anyone else noticed how often he seems to end up wrong side of an attacking player? Seems like he tries to win the ball on every pressure, which I'm not sure is ideal for his position.

In terms of overall effectiveness, I don't think he's been appreciably better than Hendo or Can. Very good in the air, and I'm sure his tackle/interception numbers are excellent, but he seems to get dribbled past A LOT, and his passing has been erratic for me (much like Can, sometimes excellent, and sometimes you're left scratching your head).

[CraigDS]

You sure you’re watching the right player?

[MrRaptorTurtle]

Has anyone else noticed how often he seems to end up wrong side of an attacking player? Seems like he tries to win the ball on every pressure, which I'm not sure is ideal for his position.

In terms of overall effectiveness, I don't think he's been appreciably better than Hendo or Can. Very good in the air, and I'm sure his tackle/interception numbers are excellent, but he seems to get dribbled past A LOT, and his passing has been erratic for me (much like Can, sometimes excellent, and sometimes you're left scratching your head).

Bio checks out

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Has anyone else noticed how often he seems to end up wrong side of an attacking player? Seems like he tries to win the ball on every pressure, which I'm not sure is ideal for his position.

In terms of overall effectiveness, I don't think he's been appreciably better than Hendo or Can. Very good in the air, and I'm sure his tackle/interception numbers are excellent, but he seems to get dribbled past A LOT, and his passing has been erratic for me (much like Can, sometimes excellent, and sometimes you're left scratching your head).

He's galaxies better than Can in position in every sense of the word.

There are no similarities between the two. Henderson can do a job there, but Fabinho is a #6 and is better in the position as well.

So shortly, it's just you

[Mr_Shane]

Fabinho has game intelligence. He just seems to know where to be and when to be cynical. Can is clumsier and can get caught out of position, and has problems recovering when he does get caught out of position

Henderson is a different sort of player. The last few games hopefully have opened everyone's eyes as to where Henderson;s ideal position is and how he is best utliized

[Chakan]

Has anyone else noticed how often he seems to end up wrong side of an attacking player? Seems like he tries to win the ball on every pressure, which I'm not sure is ideal for his position.

In terms of overall effectiveness, I don't think he's been appreciably better than Hendo or Can. Very good in the air, and I'm sure his tackle/interception numbers are excellent, but he seems to get dribbled past A LOT, and his passing has been erratic for me (much like Can, sometimes excellent, and sometimes you're left scratching your head).

Nope

[Byrneand]

Has anyone else noticed how often he seems to end up wrong side of an attacking player? Seems like he tries to win the ball on every pressure, which I'm not sure is ideal for his position.

In terms of overall effectiveness, I don't think he's been appreciably better than Hendo or Can. Very good in the air, and I'm sure his tackle/interception numbers are excellent, but he seems to get dribbled past A LOT, and his passing has been erratic for me (much like Can, sometimes excellent, and sometimes you're left scratching your head).

Anyone got any nice stats/heat maps/ spider diagrams etc to explore this?

[Angelius]

As Yorky also mentioned, the speed with which he moves the ball is also miles ahead of Hendo and Can. It impacts both our build up and playing out of pressure from the back massively.

[Bob Sacamano]

Fabinho has game intelligence. He just seems to know where to be and when to be cynical. Can is clumsier and can get caught out of position, and has problems recovering when he does get caught out of position

Henderson is a different sort of player. The last few games hopefully have opened everyone's eyes as to where Henderson;s ideal position is and how he is best utliized

Can was clumsy, yes. Fabinho certainly plays with more "elegance." But I also think he's been caught out of position just as much as Can, specifically in failing to win the ball on challenges and ending up wrong side of an attacker. Maybe those are his instructions: try to win the ball as often as possible; if you don't our backline has you covered. Just get back. In which case my criticism would just be an observation. But I always thought the number 6 acts as a shield...looking to jockey and contain and protect, and only win the ball when the opportunity presents itself.

Fabinho seems much more comfortable receiving the ball in congested areas which is a huge deal, but in terms of passing I think there are some similarities. To my eyes, both are a bit erratic. I saw a Statsbomb radar back in March that had Fabinho at 85% passing completion which I believe was 75th percentile (if I read that correctly). A radar from January 2018 had Can at about 86% and 80th percentile.

They are definitely different players, and Fabinho definitely has more potential, but just looking at his actual performances to date I don't think he's been a significant upgrade.

[Bob Sacamano]

As Yorky also mentioned, the speed with which he moves the ball is also miles ahead of Hendo and Can. It impacts both our build up and playing out of pressure from the back massively.

Yorky has a good eye for a player (he was wrong about Can though  ) so it's something I will be looking for in upcoming games. But I'll admit it has not stood out to me so far. What *has* stood out to me:

1. Extremely aggressive, always on the front foot and always looking to win the ball. Lots of tackles/interceptions, but also a lot of running back towards goal because the tackle/interception attempt didn't come off.

2. Very good in the air

3. Erratic passing. Some excellent balls played forward, but also some head-scratchers and poorly weighted passes.

4. Comfortable on the ball in congested areas. An excellent dribbler. This is one area where I think he's crucially better than Hendo/Can.

[CraigDS]

His passing % is the same as Can’s last season with us and a lot higher than his previous 2 seasons (85% and 81% respectively).

He does the odd bad pass, but then give the type of passes he attempts compared to Henderson and Can (who both do mostly short passes) that’s not too surprising.

He is dribbled past a similar amount of times per game compared to Can, but also attempts more tackles and makes more successful tackles per game.

[Rainbow Laces]

Passing stats are probably the most misleading stats in the world of football, pay no mind to those. The idea of him getting caught on the wrong side is an interesting one. I can certainly recall him having to do those 10-20 yard recovery tackles on a few occasions but I'd have to pay more attention to this in the future before commenting on whether it's him making positional errors or not though.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

They are definitely different players, and Fabinho definitely has more potential, but just looking at his actual performances to date I don't think he's been a significant upgrade.

Thankfully you're not the manager. But he's been a significant upgrade in every sense of the word.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Yorky has a good eye for a player (he was wrong about Can though  ) so it's something I will be looking for in upcoming games. But I'll admit it has not stood out to me so far. What *has* stood out to me:

1. Extremely aggressive, always on the front foot and always looking to win the ball. Lots of tackles/interceptions, but also a lot of running back towards goal because the tackle/interception attempt didn't come off.

2. Very good in the air

3. Erratic passing. Some excellent balls played forward, but also some head-scratchers and poorly weighted passes.

4. Comfortable on the ball in congested areas. An excellent dribbler. This is one area where I think he's crucially better than Hendo/Can.

No.6 is extremely hard position, because you're constantly under pressure.  Physically you have to work a lot, and mentally you have to be aware 100% of the time what's going on around you, because one mistake means a chance for the opponent. That's why i can't even give you five No.6 names that i like, or even three to be fair, because they are so rare even as half decent, let alone brilliant like Fabinho. I don't expect him to have 100% pass accuracy because of the nature of position, and also he always wants to start things, instead of sideways and back passes, which understandably, won't always work.

[Bob Sacamano]

No.6 is extremely hard position, because you're constantly under pressure.  Physically you have to work a lot, and mentally you have to be aware 100% of the time what's going on around you, because one mistake means a chance for the opponent. That's why i can't even give you five No.6 names that i like, or even three to be fair, because they are so rare even as half decent, let alone brilliant like Fabinho. I don't expect him to have 100% pass accuracy because of the nature of position, and also he always wants to start things, instead of sideways and back passes, which understandably, won't always work.

I agree it's a difficult position to play at a high level. I also think it's a difficult position to *evaluate" at a high level. Which is why I was curious to see if anyone else shared my observations.

As you say, one cannot expect 100% pass accuracy. True. But DM's will tend to have higher %'s than forward players, because they get to play a lot of easy, high % passes. Fabinho appears to be in the 75th percentile for DM's in terms of passing %, which is good but not great. Is it because he's trying more forward passes than the average DM? Is it because he's fluffing some of the easy ones? How important is pass % anyway? All good questions.

But I think passing aside, it's his defensive contributions that are most important. We know he gets a lot of tackles and interceptions. That's good. I don't know what the stats say, but my observation is that he gets dribbled past a lot and also gets wrong side a lot after a missed tackle. Is he instructed to be hyper aggressive, or is that just who he is as a player? Is the coaching staff happy with that trade off? Only up to a certain point?

[kesey]

Does anybody know that song for him. Was getting sung a lot out in Porto.

[Boaty McBoatface]

[clinical]

Has anyone else noticed how often he seems to end up wrong side of an attacking player? Seems like he tries to win the ball on every pressure, which I'm not sure is ideal for his position.

In terms of overall effectiveness, I don't think he's been appreciably better than Hendo or Can. Very good in the air, and I'm sure his tackle/interception numbers are excellent, but he seems to get dribbled past A LOT, and his passing has been erratic for me (much like Can, sometimes excellent, and sometimes you're left scratching your head).

The least accurate thing I've seen on here since Fordy describing Charlie Adam.

[dudleyred]

Mesmerising!

Cheers for posting