Topic: DC Mega Topic, it's not the MCU

[Schmidt]

Origin stories and ninjas are quite played out, which puts Batman Begins below The Dark Knight for me, it's still excellent though.

I need to see it again but The Batman is up there with the best already for me, if/when it gets a couple of sequels it'll look even better too as the ending felt really like more of a beginning.

They're really highly regarded but I struggle with the old Keaton movies and how cheesy they are.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I went to see this last night. I thought it was brilliant. I thought Pattinson as Batman was excellent (I am hard pressed to say he was a good Bruce because Bruce wasn't really there - even with the mask off he was still Batman really). I liked the Noir style, and the idea that this Batman is still messed up and makes real mistakes (both in his practice and his ideology).

Zoe Kravitz as Catwoman I thought was great - it wasn't a massive change on portrayals but it was very well done.

I thought Riddler was excellent, really excellent. Him being a very modern iteration of a villain, a radical downtrodden loner, with a cynical view of the world and an over inflated view of himself, but maybe with a twisted point - a bit QAnon, a bit School Shooter, I thought he was great.

Spoiler

I still thought the ending was really good, and Batman doesn't save Gotham but does help the survivors and ruins the encapsulating plan from the Riddler. Obviously he is coming back with The Joker too. What I do wonder is in the final fight, did Batman inject himself with Venom? Which would possibly lead to Bane, which would make sense with the "Comeback story" for Riddler and Joker, Bane breaking people out of Arkham. There's also scope here for a portrayal of No Man's Land with the disaster. There's a lot of places this story can go, although I hope they maintain this dark noir, mostly relatively grounded style.

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[Phineus]

Just finished a rewatch of Nolan’s trilogy. Loads of it holds up brilliantly, but I think Bale’s Batman isn’t great - some of the scenes with him talking almost feel like a parody. Doesn’t help that the mask seemed to be crushing his face, making it tricky for him to speak properly.

Also think it’s a massive shame how Nolan just gave up on the unique visual style Gotham had in the first film. In Batman Begins, it didn’t feel like any specific city, and there were places like the Narrows which felt pulled from a comic book. Then in the other two films he just seemed to go ‘fuck it, Gotham is Chicago now’.

The portrayal of Batman in Begins is the best of the three too. Properly terrifying criminals, whereas in the other two he’s out in the open much more (fighting Joker at a well-lit drinks party being a particularly egregious example). It felt like Nolan lost interest in the more comic book accurate portrayal after Begins, and decided to do his own thing. TDK is clearly the best film of the three, but think Begins is the best Batman film, if that makes sense.

Mixed feelings on Dark Knight Rises, loads of good stuff but some of it still doesn’t sit right - Batman being inactive for so long, for example. Still really like Hathaway’s Catwoman though.

South Park definitely makes Bale’s Batman voice come across as a parody on rewatches… that The Coon episode is so good.

Batman Begins remains my favourite film of that trilogy, TDKR the weakest of the three. What let’s that trilogy down is the fight scenes, really tame/don’t hold up I don’t think (Bane fight aside).

Personally hope they do a Court of Owls style storyline in next film, though might be a tad similar re the corruption in Gotham. If not, Hush or Huge Strange would be good.

Mr Freeze, if done right, could have some real horror elements to it… I know Reeves said he likes him as a villain.

[Bread]

and the idea that this Batman is still messed up and makes real mistakes (both in his practice and his ideology).

Spoiler

I've seen some people mock Pattinson's glider, and the scene where he jumps off the roof of the GCPD building and botching the landing, but I really enjoyed that scene. I know some people like their superheroes to be all-conquering, flawless deities, but seeing Wayne visibly nervous about making the leap before clattering into the ground revealed a human side to Batman we don't always get to see. He found himself in a situation where he effectively panicked.

In fact, Batman gets beat up A LOT in this film. Between getting blown up by The Riddler, eating the ground after his glide and getting pumped in the chest by a shotgun by a random goon, I think the "Year 2" Batman angle was played perfectly.

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[AndyMuller]

So, is the shared universe still a thing with DC or have they swerved it?

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Spoiler

I've seen some people mock Pattinson's glider, and the scene where he jumps off the roof of the GCPD building and botching the landing, but I really enjoyed that scene. I know some people like their superheroes to be all-conquering, flawless deities, but seeing Wayne visibly nervous about making the leap before clattering into the ground revealed a human side to Batman we don't always get to see. He found himself in a situation where he effectively panicked.

In fact, Batman gets beat up A LOT in this film. Between getting blown up by The Riddler, eating the ground after his glide and getting pumped in the chest by a shotgun by a random goon, I think the "Year 2" Batman angle was played perfectly.

[close]

Spoiler

Exactly this. Batman makes it very clear from the very start that he is just human, he cannot be everywhere. He used his image to go wider but he is limited.

Against a bunch of punks he gets bit a few times. He panics and fucks up his glide, he is always 3 steps behind the Riddler to the end and plays right into his hands, he misses Alfred being blown up by an hour. That and his whole ideology of vengeance is completely flawed and gives rise to people like the Riddler.

You see him learning as you go, growing from an angry tool, into someone trying to make a real difference as futile as it may be. Going from attacking villains to protecting people, and understanding the real difference in that.

I really like that - it pitches year 2 perfectly, and also encapsulates Batman, as someone who uses tactics similar to his enemies but with an aim of hope and protection from the shadows.

I also like how the cast was very young - you can imagine Batman, the Riddler, Catwoman, and the Joker are in their mid 20'a to early 30's, even Gordon is seemingly relatively young and not Commissioner yet, this is just the start of a long story of Gotham.

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[John_P]

So, is the shared universe still a thing with DC or have they swerved it?

The shared universe still exists and will continue with the upcoming Flash, Batgirl, Aquaman, and Shazam films.

The Batman, like The Joker film, are competely stand alone films set in their own continuity.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/sam-raimi-wants-to-make-batman-movie-exclusive/

Sam Raimi Wants To Make A Batman Movie: ‘If I Saw The Batsignal, I’d Come Running’ – Exclusive

Way back in Spider-Man 2, Sam Raimi planted a Doctor Strange gag as a nod to the comics-heads in the audience – so it’s fitting that all these years later, he’s at the helm of Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness. The legendary director is back in action for the first time since 2013’s Oz The Great And Powerful, cooking up the sequel to Benedict Cumberbatch’s Marvel debut after original director Scott Derrickson left the project. It’s no surprise that the character he cheekily teased way back in 2004 would be the one that tempted him back to the big screen. “I have always loved his comic, and the first movie was brilliantly done,” he says of Strange.

But as it turns out, that’s not the only comic book character that Raimi has a particular affection for. If Batman is predominantly in the custody of Matt Reeves right now – with The Batman still raking in major cash at the box office, and spin-off series heading to HBO Max – the Caped Crusader would be a real draw for the director. “I’ve always loved Batman. If I ever saw the Batsignal up in the air, I’d come running,” he laughs. In fact, it sounds like there’s a whole list of comic book characters beckoning to Raimi too. “If I heard that deep, gurgling laugh of The Shadow coming from the darkness, I would also tentatively step outside. And Spider-Man would be ahead of Doctor Strange, but I don’t want to put him down the list!”

As for Raimi’s beloved original Spider-Man trilogy, several characters – from Tobey Maguire’s Peter Parker, to Alfred Molina’s Doc Ock and Willem Dafoe’s Green Goblin – were all recently revived on the big screen recently in Spider-Man: No Way Home. The filmmaker was thrilled to see all three back in the limelight. “I was honoured,” he says. “It’s like someone said, ‘You know your old friends that have passed away? We’ve found a way to bring them back for a brief time.’” Almost as good as having the power of the sun in the palm of your hand, eh?

Read more about Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness in the upcoming issue of Empire – talking to Benedict Cumberbatch, Elizabeth Olsen, Rachel McAdams, Benedict Wong, director Sam Raimi, writer Michael Waldron, producer Richie Palmer, and Marvel boss Kevin Feige about a movie that breaks all the rules of reality.

[kaesarsosei]

The Batman is very good. Definitely got a touch of Seven about it, which IMO encapsulates the Batman mythos perfectly. I seriously hope it does well enough to generate a series, but I also hope they can keep it more grounded like this.

There’s a scene that to me is a subtle nod to Bane

Spoiler

When he has nearly passed out on the gantry and injects himself, I took that to be venom which in the comics is what created Bane.

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[Peabee]

The Batman is very good. Definitely got a touch of Seven about it, which IMO encapsulates the Batman mythos perfectly. I seriously hope it does well enough to generate a series, but I also hope they can keep it more grounded like this.

There’s a scene that to me is a subtle nod to Bane

Spoiler

When he has nearly passed out on the gantry and injects himself, I took that to be venom which in the comics is what created Bane.

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Spoiler

That was adrenaline. That’s why he couldn’t stop hitting that guy, he was pumped full of adrenaline.

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[J-Mc-]

I am hard pressed to say he was a good Bruce because Bruce wasn't really there - even with the mask off he was still Batman really

That was the entire point though, he wasn’t Bruce Wayne, he didn’t care about being Bruce Wayne, he only cared about vengeance.

[kaesarsosei]

Thinking about the movie again overnight, I think this is unquestionably the best Batman movie. Now whether other movies with Batman in them are better movies might be open for question, but in terms of the look/feel of this compared to the comics I read in my youth and teens (and still have somewhere, will probably dust off having not looked at them for 20 years) - this movie by far captures the feel of those the best.

Spoiler

That was adrenaline. That’s why he couldn’t stop hitting that guy, he was pumped full of adrenaline.

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Spoiler

https://screenrant.com/what-batman-injects-himself-with-bane-venom-green/
Its always going to be open for interpretation, but the fact that a substance exists in the Batman canon which does exactly what happened to Bruce after taking that shot to me leaves no doubt it was a nod to venom/Bane.

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[Red Viper]

Really enjoyed that. It's way too long though and yet alot of the plot still felt very undercooked.

It's up there with Burton's films but not as good as BB or TDK for me

[Stockholm Syndrome]

That was the entire point though, he wasn’t Bruce Wayne, he didn’t care about being Bruce Wayne, he only cared about vengeance.

Yeah I know. I wasn't saying it as a negative, I really  liked that idea of a Bruce who is messed up and Traumatized, and he is gone, it is just Batman now.

Just yeah I can't say he is a good Bruce because he is always Batman, which I love

[AndyMuller]

Just seen Peacemaker is on Sky Max now. Will be giving it a watch tonight.

[Barefoot Doctor]

I’ve watched the first couple, really enjoying it. Cena is excellent, interesting how they’ve actually managed to make him sympathetic even though he’s basically an awful person.

[wampa1]

I always thought Batman Begins was the best of the three Nolan Batman films. Third one was a bit silly and the second one, whilst really good, i found a bit too try hard.

Correct. Begins is the right balance of grim-dark with a sprinkling of campy fun (the plot is pure 60's 'poison the water supply' stuff).

[Musketeer Gripweed]

Just seen Peacemaker is on Sky Max now. Will be giving it a watch tonight.

Watched a couple of episodes last night and I thought it was just starting to get interesting.

Shocked to see the state of Robert Patrick. Made me realise how old The Sopranos actually was nowadays.

[kaesarsosei]

Correct. Begins is the right balance of grim-dark with a sprinkling of campy fun (the plot is pure 60's 'poison the water supply' stuff).

Well where I am with the Nolan trilogy and now this Reeves ones is - if you want a grim-dark, Batman focused movie then The Batman is the best one so far, and better than Batman Begins. The villain is also a lot better than Ras Al Ghul although thats not to say Neeson was bad - but I thought the Riddler has been the second most interesting villain in Batman movies so far (nothing will top Ledger's Joker).

In terms of perhaps a better overall movie, then TDK is hard to beat - although looking back I think that movie was too long and should have been split in two. The first part should have ended with Rachel dieing and the creation of Two-Face and the second part should have have had more about Two-Face and maybe setup the Joker to have been captured early and providing a Hannibal Lecter type role. The Two-Face stuff in TDK felt rushed and I feel that the character and actor (Eckhart was great) deserved more screentime.

Having said all that, I liked all 4 movies and even liked TDKR a lot whereas a lot of people are down on that movies.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Deleted scene.

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[Barefoot Doctor]

Spoiler

Just not really feeling Keoghan’s Joker. Don’t love the look, although the disfigurement has been done plenty of times in the comics. It’s more the delivery, feels a teenage version of the Joker. [\spoiler]

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[AndyMuller]

Yeah not feeling that. I thought the actor was annoying in Eternals aswell.

[Red Viper]

Spoiler

Should have cut Joker's cameo altogether to be honest. Just wasn't needed at all and felt like a tacked on post credit scene that the studio insisted on having in the movie. I am suffering from complete Joker fatigue though so I'm biased

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[kaesarsosei]

Spoiler

Should have cut Joker's cameo altogether to be honest. Just wasn't needed at all and felt like a tacked on post credit scene that the studio insisted on having in the movie. I am suffering from complete Joker fatigue though so I'm biased

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Spoiler

Complete agree with this, Joker has become over-used and this was 100% a studio/investor call. I'm just glad Reeves was able to make that scene a deleted scene. I wonder is that why the final movie is so long, so that he could say there was no room for the Joker scene? 

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[Barefoot Doctor]

Spoiler

I dunno, I reckon Reeves wanted him in there. Think he wanted to be able to say that all the 'big four' classic villains were in one film - Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman. I reckon the plan is for them to be in all the films basically, to varying degrees, showing their evolution into fully-fledged versions of their iconic characters. So in the next one you get Penguin as the mob boss, Riddler being interrogated for information at Arkham, Joker on the loose and Catwoman being a thorn in his sides again - but someone else as the major villain. Think it's pretty clear that Reeves wants to build a more fully realised Gotham, and recurring villains is key to that IMO.

Also fairly sure that Keoghan is central to one of the planned TV shows, so think he'd have wanted his debut to come in one of the films rather than an HBO Max series.

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[lionel_messias]

Deleted scene.

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Ah boring. If this is representative, I won't be watching The Batman over 3 hours.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Ah boring. If this is representative, I won't be watching The Batman over 3 hours.

It's easy to understand why they cut it.

[kaesarsosei]

Yeah regardless of the pros/cons of including Joker or not, thats a terrible scene.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Deleted scene.

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I don't think that scene was needed at all, can see why it was cut, but don't think it was particularly bad either. I think the actor did a fine job considering this isn't Jokers movie he's locked up, you don't want to be too bombastic and chewing the scenery, leave that for when he is out. It let's you know they have a history and Joker in particular has a bit of a hard on for Batman.

I can very much see the next Batman movie, or one around it, having a bit of a silence of the lambs/mindhunter aspect of Batman getting a perspective from Joker and Riddler while they are in Arkham to hunt down another killer (like Scarecrow perhaps?). I think that could be very interesting.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't think that scene was needed at all, can see why it was cut, but don't think it was particularly bad either. I think the actor did a fine job considering this isn't Jokers movie he's locked up, you don't want to be too bombastic and chewing the scenery, leave that for when he is out. It let's you know they have a history and Joker in particular has a bit of a hard on for Batman.

I can very much see the next Batman movie, or one around it, having a bit of a silence of the lambs/mindhunter aspect of Batman getting a perspective from Joker and Riddler while they are in Arkham to hunt down another killer (like Scarecrow perhaps?). I think that could be very interesting.

I hope so,the darker the better for me & that is something that DC do better than the other lot.

[AndyMuller]

Enjoying Peacemaker. I have to say DC have been on a bit of a roll lately. The Suicide Squad, The Batman and now Peacemaker, all good shit.

[Schmidt]

Enjoying Peacemaker. I have to say DC have been on a bit of a roll lately. The Suicide Squad, The Batman and now Peacemaker, all good shit.

They're finally doing what many have said they should for a long time, focusing on good isolated movies and just leaving the creators to do their thing without changing direction during production or slashing it to pieces in post.

I hope they forgo putting Pattinson's Batman into an extended universe and instead just focus on an extended Gotham for a while.

[AndyMuller]

Finished Peacemaker last night, I thought Cena was absolutely fantastic to be honest and the show was really good. Looking forward to next season already.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

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[Stockholm Syndrome]

So.... don't think that Flash movie is coming out with all the stuff about Ezra Miller. I believe that's also the last of the DCEU movies in the works at the moment.

[Barefoot Doctor]

So.... don't think that Flash movie is coming out with all the stuff about Ezra Miller. I believe that's also the last of the DCEU movies in the works at the moment.

All sounds a bit nuts, but precisely zero chance they bin the Flash movie IMO.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

All sounds a bit nuts, but precisely zero chance they bin the Flash movie IMO.

Idk if your main star has been escorted by police from a breaking and entering where you stole from and threatened the occupants, and has had several interaction with the police in a month, all while your film is in a bit of a development quagmire, you may need to scrap and start from scratch

[Barefoot Doctor]

Idk if your main star has been escorted by police from a breaking and entering where you stole from and threatened the occupants, and has had several interaction with the police in a month, all while your film is in a bit of a development quagmire, you may need to scrap and start from scratch

Filming finished a while ago though. The cost of going back and recasting, or binning it entirely, is just something I don’t see them doing. Think it’s an important film for the future of the DCEU, since it has Keaton returning and he’s apparently going to be a major part of things going forward.

I’d agree they probably won’t be looking at working with Ezra Miler in the future. Although they also have a major part in the Fantastic Beasts series, which has already had plenty issues with cast members.

[abs-ibs]

I watched The Batman at the cinema a few weeks ago, and when hearing it was to be released online this week, I was excited to watch it again. This was an excellent Batman movie. The best one for me. There was an edge of realism and darkness that even surpassed Nolan's trilogy.

From the fact that Colin Farrell is nigh on unrecognisable in his features and his acting, to the se7en style detective noir feel to the first 2 hours of the movie, this went beyond what I expected from a 'super hero' movie. If you took away 'Batman/Cat-woman/Penguin/Riddler' and replaced them with none super hero characters, this would have been a superb movie in itself.

It reminds me of how good the Winter Soldier was for Marvel, less flashy with the 'super' hero side and more gritty. But this surpassed The Winter Soldier. It was just brilliant.

I like the take on the Joker too from the deleted scene. A seriously messed up individual.

I think Hush and the Penguin would be the best main villains for the next movie. Especially Hush as it would tie in nicely with the detective noir feel of the first one.

[Skeeve]

I hope so,the darker the better for me & that is something that DC do better than the other lot.

It'd be nice if that was merely the tone of the movie rather than a lighting direction.