Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *

[Andy @ Allerton!]

We used to have empires ruled by emperors and kingdoms ruled by kings. Now we have countries...

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Yep. There certainly will be jobs lost. But do we want humanity to do pathetic crap jobs for little money when they can self-actualise with work they want to do?

AI can bring a lot to the table and it can take a lot away.

Depends on your point of view. I doubt a killer AI will murder us all, but it might well transform society.

Our society has been transformed quite a few times over the last 2,000+ years.

I'm optomistic

Well many of the people who lost their livelihoods to the spinning jenny were artisan peasants, a skilled working class living in relatively good conditions (and with relative liberty) to those they were then forced into by the new technology in the abyss of the newly industrialising towns and cities.

The Luddites saw what was coming their way, and rightly didn't like the look of it. We seem in a rush to embrace our own redundancy, in some wild gamble that the people who control AI (erm, it's the super-rich sociopaths who have been a large part of what got us into this mess), will somehow use it for the self-actualisation of the masses.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well many of the people who lost their livelihoods to the spinning jenny were artisan peasants, a skilled working class living in relatively good conditions (and with relative liberty) to those they were then forced into by the new technology in the abyss of the newly industrialising towns and cities.

The Luddites saw what was coming their way, and rightly didn't like the look of it. We seem in a rush to embrace our own redundancy, in some wild gamble that the people who control AI (erm, it's the super-rich sociopaths who have been a large part of what got us into this mess), will somehow use it for the self-actualisation of the masses.

Rightly?

I've read quite a lot about the early history of the UK and many people had short, brutal and terrible lives.

In 1841 - the average age was less than 40

In the few hundred years before that it was around 30 ish


Yay?

[Red-Soldier]

It's early days but the Scottish Government are doing lots of work on creating a circular economy, Lorna Slater, the Green MSP is the Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity, and the Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill is currently going through parliament.

https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/circular-economy-scotland-bill/overview#:~:text=The%20Scottish%20Government%20has%20introduced%20the%20Bill%20to,tackle%20the%20climate%20emergency%20and%20the%20biodiversity%20crisis.

It's great to see something like this going through:

This Bill requires Scottish Ministers to introduce measures to help develop a circular economy. This includes:

    Publishing a circular economy strategy
    Developing circular economy targets
    Reducing waste
    Increasing penalties for littering from vehicles
    Making sure individual householders and businesses get rid of waste in the right way
    Improving waste monitoring

All governments should be doing this.

The circular economy is the way forward and will be a huge industry.

Reduce
Reuse
Recycle

In fact, many are saying now, that we should drop the recycle part.  There are quite a few emerging issues around all the recycling we're doing, such as increased pollution.

In the developed world, we all should be focused on reduce and reuse (the circular economy).

Just 30 percent of e-waste is currently recycled-reused.  The increased tech over the past decade or so, has created a massive environmental issue.  Everything we produce should be modular and repairable.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's great to see something like this going through:

All governments should be doing this.

The circular economy is the way forward and will be a huge industry.

Reduce
Reuse
Recycle

In fact, many are saying now, that we should drop the recycle part.  There are quite a few emerging issues around all the recycling we're doing, such as increased pollution.

In the developed world, we all should be focused on reduce and reuse (the circular economy).

Just 30 percent of e-waste is currently recycled-reused.  The increased tech over the past decade or so, has created a massive environmental issue.  Everything we produce should be modular and repairable.

If you don't recycle then what do you do with the waste? Just landfill it forever?

[thejbs]

If you don't recycle then what do you do with the waste? Just landfill it forever?

I would say reduce, reuse, repair is probably more prudent with tech. And we should legislate to make all tech repairable by (at minimum) third parties. I recently read about how Nokia have made all their phones easily repairable - supplying guides and parts via ifixit. Big guns should be doing that. Apple are actively making their machines less user repairable/upgradeable.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I would say reduce, reuse, repair is probably more prudent with tech. And we should legislate to make all tech repairable by (at minimum) third parties. I recently read about how Nokia have made all their phones easily repairable - supplying guides and parts via ifixit. Big guns should be doing that. Apple are actively making their machines less user repairable/upgradeable.

How is reusing different from recycling?

[Red-Soldier]

If you don't recycle then what do you do with the waste? Just landfill it forever?

No, you don't understand.

The focus needs to be reduce and reuse.  Recycling is the very last resort, as it creates pollution and is quite energy intensive.

If we can reduce first, then reuse what we have, eg. repair, if it breaks, or buy preowned.  Recycling only happens at the very last stage, if we cannot do 1 or 2.

We need to get away from the midset that we can just keep buying lots of stuff.  It's very hard to get precious metals from tech such as phones, for example.  So, much of it just goes to landfil.  Recycling is a very wasteful process.

All my mobiles have been preowned, for over 10 years now.

[Nobby Reserve]

The problem with 'reuse' is how little demand there can be for used items.

[Red-Soldier]

The problem with 'reuse' is how little demand there can be for used items.

We move in different circles mate.  There's a huge demand for used items, clothes, tech etc.

I guess it depends on your mindset and afluence.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

No, you don't understand.

The focus needs to be reduce and reuse.  Recycling is the very last resort, as it creates pollution and is quite energy intensive.

If we can reduce first, then reuse what we have, eg. repair, if it breaks, or buy preowned.  Recycling only happens at the very last stage, if we cannot do 1 or 2.

We need to get away from the midset that we can just keep buying lots of stuff.  It's very hard to get precious metals from tech such as phones, for example.  So, much of it just goes to landfil.  Recycling is a very wasteful process.

All my mobiles have been preowned, for over 10 years now.

There is some merit in that idea, but how many people do go after the 'latest thing'

If I have trainers or a phone or even a car then I buy them and I keep them til they are wrecked and need replacing, then I replace them.

Yet some people will buy a new car or trainers or phone every couple of years. Seems bonkers to me.

I'd guess it's mainly young people, but some of my mates seem to buy new trainers every couple of months.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Just 30 percent of e-waste is currently recycled-reused.  The increased tech over the past decade or so, has created a massive environmental issue.  Everything we produce should be modular and repairable.

This. How is it that at about aged 11, I could repair the timer in the family washing machine. And now, I cannot even replace the battery in the my phone without large effort and the real possibility of bricking it.

[Nobby Reserve]

This. How is it that at about aged 11, I could repair the timer in the family washing machine. And now, I cannot even replace the battery in the my phone without large effort and the real possibility of bricking it.

I trust you're being rhetorical here?

[Jiminy Cricket]

I trust you're being rhetorical here?

Well. I was not looking for an answer. So, yeah. Rhetorical. My point was two-fold, but meant only as a throw away line. Many things now are unnecessarily complicated for little benefit (the mechanical timer in the washing machine was simple, worked, and was easily repaired by a kid). And now - for example - modern laptops do not allow for the swapping-out of the battery, and cellphones are next to impossible to open to carry out any kind of repair.

And let's not get into the tricks the likes of Apple and John Deere get up to prevent third-party or self repair.

[Nobby Reserve]

And let's not get into the tricks the likes of Apple and John Deere get up to prevent third-party or self repair.

Well that's the crux, innit?

Corporate greed. From built-in obsolescence to making products impossible/ridiculously difficult to repair/upgrade, they seek to keep people on the consumer treadmill.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well. I was not looking for an answer. So, yeah. Rhetorical. My point was two-fold, but meant only as a throw away line. Many things now are unnecessarily complicated for little benefit (the mechanical timer in the washing machine was simple, worked, and was easily repaired by a kid). And now - for example - modern laptops do not allow for the swapping-out of the battery, and cellphones are next to impossible to open to carry out any kind of repair.

And let's not get into the tricks the likes of Apple and John Deere get up to prevent third-party or self repair.

Are you having a laugh? I could easily do those things.

The problem is that you have no skill or ability in this. Go to any town centre and there are cheap repair shops that will do these simple tasks for you.

[Dr. Beaker]

Are you having a laugh? I could easily do those things.

The problem is that you have no skill or ability in this. Go to any town centre and there are cheap repair shops that will do these simple tasks for you.

I couldn't even figure out how to change my car battery about a year ago. So I took it to Halfords, but the battery many couldn't figure it out either and had to get his boss to do it!

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I couldn't even figure out how to change my car battery about a year ago. So I took it to Halfords, but the battery many couldn't figure it out either and had to get his boss to do it!

Yeah when it comes to car stuff, I'm absolute shite. Get the experts in

But you got it done in the end though mate?

[Red-Soldier]

Are you having a laugh? I could easily do those things.

The problem is that you have no skill or ability in this. Go to any town centre and there are cheap repair shops that will do these simple tasks for you.

That's the point, though.  Try not to see everything from your own world view (we're all guilty of this at some point).

Products should be made that you can undertake repairs at home, such as changing a battery in a mobile phone.  Why have a battery that is fixed?  The only reason is to try and make more money from the consumer and make it more difficult to upgrade/repair yourself.

Both Apple and Sansung have been found to do this.  Rather than circular, their production models are linear, like many other things we buy.

There are products that you can buy, that are modular and come with tools and detailed schematics of the product.  This is very niche though, currently.

Companies like Apple and most others, prioritise profits over anything else.  It's in their interests to make products obsolete, fast, and that is what they do.

I remember when all mobiles came with replaceable batteries and came apart easily.  Great bwhen you dropped it down the toilet and needed to dry it out 

[Jiminy Cricket]

Are you having a laugh? I could easily do those things.

The problem is that you have no skill or ability in this. Go to any town centre and there are cheap repair shops that will do these simple tasks for you.

The point is, nearly anyone could make repairs before. Not being able to swap out a phone battery without special tools (using non-obvious techniques) is plain wrong. Even with instructions, I would not like to dismantle my phone. Even some laptops are glued together. And most people do not have soldering irons to install a new battery. It is bollocks. What you can do and what most people can do is not necessarily the same thing.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I couldn't even figure out how to change my car battery about a year ago. So I took it to Halfords, but the battery many couldn't figure it out either and had to get his boss to do it!

I'm no Luddite. But the pace of innovation (and obsolescence) is staggering. As mentioned further up, it is extremely ungreen. Repairability should be legislated. It is coming, but slowly. Designing a car in such a way that the owner (or even Halfords) cannot swap out the battery is cuntish behaviour.

[Jiminy Cricket]

That's the point, though.  Try not to see everything from your own world view (we're all guilty of this at some point).

Products should be made that you can undertake repairs at home, such as changing a battery in a mobile phone.  Why have a battery that is fixed?  The only reason is to try and make more money from the consumer and make it more difficult to upgrade/repair yourself.

Both Apple and Sansung have been found to do this.  Rather than circular, their production models are linear, like many other things we buy.

There are products that you can buy, that are modular and come with tools and detailed schematics of the product.  This is very niche though, currently.

Companies like Apple and most others, prioritise profits over anything else.  It's in their interests to make products obsolete, fast, and that is what they do.

I remember when all mobiles came with replaceable batteries and came apart easily.  Great bwhen you dropped it down the toilet and needed to dry it out 

[thejbs]

How is reusing different from recycling?

Depends on what you’re recycling, but it can be worlds apart. In the case of plastics there’s a big difference - including release of microplastics. And there’s also the issue of energy and water consumption, as well as waste, with regard to recycling.

In short, reusing is more environmentally sustainable.

[killer-heels]

A Labour MP celebrating stopping the building of homes for people with learning disabilities.

https://twitter.com/PauletteHamilto/status/1722953776988815726?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1722953776988815726%7Ctwgr%5E1318b504bfed657076b5779e2a1ad6dc986666ad%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F

[Andy @ Allerton!]

That's the point, though.  Try not to see everything from your own world view (we're all guilty of this at some point).

Products should be made that you can undertake repairs at home, such as changing a battery in a mobile phone.  Why have a battery that is fixed?  The only reason is to try and make more money from the consumer and make it more difficult to upgrade/repair yourself.

Both Apple and Sansung have been found to do this.  Rather than circular, their production models are linear, like many other things we buy.

There are products that you can buy, that are modular and come with tools and detailed schematics of the product.  This is very niche though, currently.

Companies like Apple and most others, prioritise profits over anything else.  It's in their interests to make products obsolete, fast, and that is what they do.

I remember when all mobiles came with replaceable batteries and came apart easily.  Great bwhen you dropped it down the toilet and needed to dry it out 

I've replaced several android batteries. Piece of piss.

If you can't even do that maybe buy a brick and pretend it's a phone

[Andy @ Allerton!]

A Labour MP celebrating stopping the building of homes for people with learning disabilities.

https://twitter.com/PauletteHamilto/status/1722953776988815726?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1722953776988815726%7Ctwgr%5E1318b504bfed657076b5779e2a1ad6dc986666ad%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F

Did you read the letter of objection? What are your specific objections to those points?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The point is, nearly anyone could make repairs before. Not being able to swap out a phone battery without special tools (using non-obvious techniques) is plain wrong. Even with instructions, I would not like to dismantle my phone. Even some laptops are glued together. And most people do not have soldering irons to install a new battery. It is bollocks. What you can do and what most people can do is not necessarily the same thing.

"Even some laptops are glued together"

I've taken apart and repaired/updated/replaced maybe 200+ laptops in my time

I've never heard of one or ever seen one 'glued together' what does that even mean?

[killer-heels]

Did you read the letter of objection? What are your specific objections to those points?

Her second to last paragraph and then the last paragraph. I object to both. Also its a bit of a contradiction. This area is terrible but dont make it less pretty.

Its in Erdington a built up inner city area. Should not really be an excuse and if we cant build there then there is nowhere that we can build homes.

[PatriotScouser]

A Labour MP celebrating stopping the building of homes for people with learning disabilities.

https://twitter.com/PauletteHamilto/status/1722953776988815726?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1722953776988815726%7Ctwgr%5E1318b504bfed657076b5779e2a1ad6dc986666ad%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F

I agree, it's disgusting and shameful. I was totally appalled when I read that.

[classycarra]

Did you read the letter of objection? What are your specific objections to those points?

Yep, it's really stupid. Absolutely all over the shop, pin the tail on the donkey shit - where she's just reeling off all kinds of things in the hope of finding one thing to successfully kill the work.

She seems to think that areas with some amount in crime in them are done for, and therefore shouldn't be able to have any development in them. And that parking is of vital importance. And that people with learning difficulties are going to erode the social cohesion of the area (even though she starts out bemoaning the crime in the area) - it's a bit accidentally partridge, and a lot or prejudice.

Luckily it seems out of step with central plans within the party ahead of the next election. One of the few upsides to the nimbyism rife in english politics and society, is that it means politicians share and publicise the work they do on it - helping us to qualify how much of a problem they are. It's usually the lib dems and greens celebrating nonsense like this - hope this is a vocal minority.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yep, it's really stupid. Absolutely all over the shop, pin the tail on the donkey shit - where she's just reeling off all kinds of things in the hope of finding one thing to successfully kill the work.

She seems to think that areas with some amount in crime in them are done for, and therefore shouldn't be able to have any development in them. And that parking is of vital importance. And that people with learning difficulties are going to erode the social cohesion of the area (even though she starts out bemoaning the crime in the area) - it's a bit accidentally partridge, and a lot or prejudice.

Luckily it seems out of step with central plans within the party ahead of the next election. One of the few upsides to the nimbyism rife in english politics and society, is that it means politicians share and publicise the work they do on it - helping us to qualify how much of a problem they are. It's usually the lib dems and greens celebrating nonsense like this - hope this is a vocal minority.

It's stupid?

I can't pretend to know what it all relates to, but you are categorically saying that the points made are all stupid?

Why would these points be made then?

[classycarra]

It's stupid?

I can't pretend to know what it all relates to, but you are categorically saying that the points made are all stupid?

Why would these points be made then?

Read my first two sentences to find the answer to your question.

Why would these points be made? It's in her tweet and the letter - she wanted to prevent the development, so reeled off a load of incongruent points.

Personally they make it seem like the concern isn't sincere (or, if they are, she's really quite stupid)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Read my first two sentences to find the answer to your question.

Why would these points be made? It's in her tweet and the letter - she wanted to prevent the development, so reeled off a load of incongruent points.

Personally they make it seem like the concern isn't sincere (or, if they are, she's really quite stupid)

Why are they stupid? What makes the comments stupid? I get that you can disagree with them, but they are actually stupid? How so?

[classycarra]

Why are they stupid? What makes the comments stupid? I get that you can disagree with them, but they are actually stupid? How so?

All I'm saying Andy is that I don't think I'd trust Paulette Hamilton to replace the battery of my android phone

(but if you do care, this time re-read that same post but the second paragraph instead of the first) - it's all in there

[Elmo!]

"Even some laptops are glued together"

I've taken apart and repaired/updated/replaced maybe 200+ laptops in my time

I've never heard of one or ever seen one 'glued together' what does that even mean?

We work with Dell's almost exclusively at my work, their Latitude and Precision business class laptops. Basically everything is soldered on to the motherboard now, apart from the SSD. Anything else breaks it requires a full mobo swapout. And forget upgrading the memory.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

We work with Dell's almost exclusively at my work, their Latitude and Precision business class laptops. Basically everything is soldered on to the motherboard now, apart from the SSD. Anything else breaks it requires a full mobo swapout. And forget upgrading the memory.

You don't have a soldering iron?

[JP!]

Not sure when this thread became an episode of The Salvager

Anyway, have vocally disliked Starmer's inaction in opposition at times but looking at what's happening this morning/in general, hard not to see the beauty of just shutting up while your enemy makes a mistake...or 9000.

Would think this taking over the news cycle probably reduces the heat on him over Gaza too.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

All I'm saying Andy is that I don't think I'd trust Paulette Hamilton to replace the battery of my android phone

(but if you do care, this time re-read that same post but the second paragraph instead of the first) - it's all in there

I'm not sure the points she makes are stupid? I once went to my mates house near St. Michaels station (Not far from Lark Lane) and there was a residence that had been converted into this type of building.

There was a spate of crime around the area centered on the place. I parked my car and came out two hours later and found all the windows smashed in and my radio stolen.

He said that there were loads of events that had happened since said conversion. Since then, there has been loads of crime around the area. So to link problems like this isn't stupid - maybe uncomfortable, but the things can be linked.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not sure when this thread became an episode of The Salvager

Anyway, have vocally disliked Starmer's inaction in opposition at times but looking at what's happening this morning/in general, hard not to see the beauty of just shutting up while your enemy makes a mistake...or 9000.

Would think this taking over the news cycle probably reduces the heat on him over Gaza too.

"never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"

[classycarra]

were they deaf offenders?