Topic: Rafa's "Houllier Moment"

[bonzer red]

the thing i cant understand is that everyone at the top has been playing crap at different spells throughout the season, the supporters of any of the top five in the league could be saying if only we hadn't started so slow (the Mancs), if only we didn't drop so many points at home ( us and chelsea), if only we hadn't lost some games that we shouldn't have, (arsenal and Villa, we not been in this position for god knows how many years, we are second on goal difference, playing trash, and still in with a shout, Football is all about ifs and buts, if stevies goal had stood against stoke at anfield, we probably would have beat them, if carra didn't score the own goal against hull, if stevie's freekick or flick had of went in instead of hitting the bar and post respectively against stoke last week, but if reina didn't make those saves last night we would have been beat. , this is all madness

[Cadno]

i can't name any other team in the world that plays any part of any match without a fuckin striker, especially liverpool f.c at home against everton, as for 'he stayed down clutchin his ankle' did you watch that shankly thing with st john, lawler and yeats, they were saying how players of today go down for anything (excuse any pun there) he is spanish and gorgeous , is our fernando, he falls to the floor several times a match, ya can't be draggin him off if he takes a heavy tackle. also he is a profesional football player if he is not fit enough by now to play 90 minutes then what is going on. Rafa got it wrong against stoke and last night, bit of a flukey/fortunate goal but it was brough on by us and the mentality installed in the players to get ahead and defend like fuck. no striker on the park, shankly would turn in his grave at that one, the man who virtually created the 4-4-2 formation!

am sorry but that is the biggest pile of shite you have written today and you have written some shite

You weer wrong he surpassed himself

[SallyCinnamon]

You weer wrong he surpassed himself

I wish he would stop with the 'Shankly would' bollocks because the only thing i can gaurantee Shankly would do is clip him around his fucking ear.

[martinjmmac5]

I am sorry but that is the biggest pile of shite you have written today and you have written some shite.

Am i right in thinking you are saying that Rafa nas neither the intelect or charism to manage LFC and am i right in thinking you are still peddling the tired old bollocks that Rafa wants full control over everythin..

Am i right ?
Am I  because Rafa isn't trying to reinvent the wheel he just wants one that goes round and round.

i was sayin shankly had enough charisma and intelect to pull off doing business in the open and using propaganda stunts not manage liverpool, i have not said sack rafa i have just commented on strange tactics and decisions he has made and 99% of fans would agree that not having a striker on the park is ludicrous, he wants more control than any other manager has had at the club and is holding the club to ransom to get his own way, shankly earned the right to virtually run the club, he built the club, but rafa has not yet he is not that special and is on such a fuckin pedestal.

[MAL05]

That is the saddest thing about this gaff. I used to think it was a good way to keep in touch with other reds and have a chat about LFC and footy in general.
Sadly, I've come to realise that some people would actually prefer us/Rafa to fail just so they can say I told you so.
Most of them are just thcik like the daft bastard in here nnow.but sadly some of them are quite smart and use their knowledge to lead the daft sheep into backing them up.

Glad you have put that FS, obviously not as long in the tooth as you on here and I have always been surprised at how some people just come on to slate, moan and rip into others.

[Strawberry Fields]

Under houlliers we never won teh champions league .

During most of Houllier's time, last season's 4th place (and the season before we won it) would've given us UEFA Cup football. Rules have changed, you know.

[steveeastend]

he wants more control than any other manager has had at the club and is holding the club to ransom to get his own way, shankly earned the right to virtually run the club, he built the club, but rafa has not yet he is not that special and is on such a fuckin pedestal.

Everything you stated here is wrong. He wants equal control than any other manager in the PL. And he built the club from nowhere to one of the big four AGAIN.

[Fat Scouser]

We all know you are an older gentleman and cut your teeth in the boys pen or whatever but that does not make you MR FUCKIN LIVERPOOL F.C my opinion matters just as much as yours and so does fuckin Ivor sealbeater's from norway and paddy o'shea from ireland and at the end of the day it's a messageboard, there wouldn't be one if every single person thought exactly the same.

Missed that one. It's a belter. Funny that lad. You'll be offering me out next I suppose. But what surprises me is, your persistance in thinking you know more than Rafa and qouting the same little couple of gripes over and over. Credit for sticking to your guns, but maybe you really should shut up sometime and listen to some fellas like Shanklyboy and gedo who so really know their stuff. I have a feeling you would make a cracking red but you are just insisting on making yourself look like a beaut.

[martinjmmac5]

Didn't Dirk go up front?

Did Yossi make an error fouling someone and the defence fail to pick up Cahill.

To be fair, they deserved a point and all the finger pointing at Rafa is embarrassing.

dirk is not a striker anymore, remember we bought him as one and then rafa converted him to a right winger, i said he didnt have  a striker on the pitch which he didn't.

[bonzer red]

i can't name any other team in the world that plays any part of any match without a fuckin striker, especially liverpool f.c at home against everton, as for 'he stayed down clutchin his ankle' did you watch that shankly thing with st john, lawler and yeats, they were saying how players of today go down for anything (excuse any pun there) he is spanish and gorgeous , is our fernando, he falls to the floor several times a match, ya can't be draggin him off if he takes a heavy tackle. also he is a profesional football player if he is not fit enough by now to play 90 minutes then what is going on. Rafa got it wrong against stoke and last night, bit of a flukey/fortunate goal but it was brough on by us and the mentality installed in the players to get ahead and defend like fuck. no striker on the park, shankly would turn in his grave at that one, the man who virtually created the 4-4-2 formation!

yeah but this is 2009 and football has changed

[lfcmaster]

a bit of fun guys

houlliers stongest team v rafa stongest team

dudek
babel hyppia henchoz carra
smicer hamman gerrard kewell

owen fowler

rafa

reina
arbeloa agger skrtel insua
garcia alonso mash riera
torres keane

[KOTP]

KOTP

You have to respond to Art Vandelay's point in the first page of this thread to substantiate the credibility of the comparison. I'll paste it here for you:

+++++

In Ged's last two years at this exact point in the season we were 14 and 23 points off the leader respectively.

+++++

KOTP, can you please respond to this, and explain how your comparison has any integrity, or how where we are now, on the 20th January 2009, is in any way comparable with Ged's last days.

I think you have to answer this, to maintain your credibility. Otherwise, you're going to appear kneejerk and spineless, especially when you make slightly hysterical, innacurate and sensationalised comparisons that have no substance like you have in your original post and in the title of the thread.

(And I'm not even mentioning your 'solution' being Mourinho or Capello)

quite easy as like i've pointed out to others like yourself that have misunderstood the title of the thread i am not questioning that rafa hasnt improved us since he take over the comparrison i am makin is to the feeling I got in around 2002 when i felt ged has run his course i am getting now with rafa. Of course he has improved us but the what i am saying is that he cant improve us to where we want to be as title winners

[Fat Scouser]

i was sayin shankly had enough charisma and intelect to pull off doing business in the open and using propaganda stunts not manage liverpool, i have not said sack rafa i have just commented on strange tactics and decisions he has made and 99% of fans would agree that not having a striker on the park is ludicrous, he wants more control than any other manager has had at the club and is holding the club to ransom to get his own way, shankly earned the right to virtually run the club, he built the club, but rafa has not yet he is not that special and is on such a fuckin pedestal.

Was you about in the Shankly years?

[Fat Scouser]

quite easy as like i've pointed out to others like yourself that have misunderstood the title of the thread i am not questioning that rafa hasnt improved us since he take over the comparrison i am makin is to the feeling I got in around 2002 when i felt ged has run his course i am getting now with rafa. Of course he has improved us but the what i am saying is that he cant improve us to where we want to be as title winners

More to the point... do you think Rafa would continue to improve us if he had the tools to do the job?

[Cassiel]

That is the saddest thing about this gaff. I used to think it was a good way to keep in touch with other reds and have a chat about LFC and footy in general.
Sadly, I've come to realise that some people would actually prefer us/Rafa to fail just so they can say I told you so.
Most of them are just thcik like the daft bastard in here nnow.but sadly some of them are quite smart and use their knowledge to lead the daft sheep into backing them up.

Not sure it's this gaff. I think it's the Internet. Instead of kicking the cat, or having another beer after a late goal screws things up, waking up the next morning, get on with their lives and start looking to the next game, people come on here fret, work themselves up with other fretters, carry on fretting, go to sleep fretting after sharing a midnight fret-in, then wake up and fret some more. It's mass psychosis. Like some doom laden, sadistic cult with Walshy's Mullet as its David Koresh.

Thing is, there are many more ups and downs to come this season and you just wonder how some people are going to cope. Shit happens. Football can be cruel. We of all people know it can also be utterly magic. Have a bit of faith and support a bloke who's busting his balls for the team, for us, in the most difficult of circumstances - he's a proud guy, he coulda walked away and I owuldn;t have blamed him sometimes. Stop fretting and wishing, because you know fine well when the next bloke comes along, he will one day, you'll still be fretting. Is Rafa up to it. We'll find out. Seems like he's doing a fucking good job to me though.

Some of you need to get a grip.

[MAL05]

a bit of fun guys

houlliers stongest team v rafa stongest team

dudek
babel hyppia henchoz carra
smicer hamman gerrard kewell

owen fowler

rafa

reina
arbeloa agger skrtel insua
garcia alonso mash riera
torres keane

Erm, why no Gerrard in Rafa's?........

[Romford_Red]

I like this board more than most I've been on, but something that really pisses me off is that if ANYONE questions Rafa in a well thought out way, they are castigated for not having blind faith (Good OP is what I'm saying here).

I'm a big Rafa fan. I love the way he has taken us forward and I really hope we'll be there come may, but I think the OP does have a point when it comes to some of Rafas decisions.

Torres coming off. Ok he's on his way back, so I'm fine with that, but leave Keane on. At least bring on Babel rather than Lucas.
Keane for Benny. My best mate is a Spurs fan, so I know a fair bit about them and I know that Keane scores the majority of his goals in the last 15 minutes, so I'd like to see him left on. That's not my real issue though. I think Yossi is a great player, if played centrally, but we're never going to play him there, so I think it's a waste having him there. I agree that Masch would have been better.

I think it is worrying that we don't seem to play with freedom. Our team play like a team who are put into a tactical straight jacket by the manager. It really concerns me that I've seen us play great for about 2 whole games all season.

What am I trying to say with this? I'm saying that I'm still a Rafa fan. I'm still hoping to be there in May. I'm still hoping Rafa can find that last piece of whatever jigsaw it is that he is building. I just have nagging doubts and I want to be able to discuss them without being called a t**t or people picking out one part of a well thought post and commenting on that, rather than taking it in context with the rest of the post.

So for the record I think Rafa is great, I could name loads of things I love about him, but nobody is perfect and I am beginning to have doubts. Being able to discuss them helps me to put that in perspective and assuage those doubts. Being called a t**t doesn't help anyone.

IMO of course

[lfcmaster]

Erm, why no Gerrard in Rafa's?........

gerrard played under houllier
rafa's team is purely players that rafa has bought so we can compare squads

[bonzer red]

dirk is not a striker anymore, remember we bought him as one and then rafa converted him to a right winger, i said he didnt have  a striker on the pitch which he didn't.

just as a matter of interest who would you have brought on, cause we needed to put fresh legs on, as i said before keane was non existent and torres needed to be changed, and just incase you say babel, doesn't he play left wing

[Nick110581]

gerrard played under houllier
rafa's team is purely players that rafa has bought so we can compare squads

Makes no sense as no one bought Carra or Stevie.

Can't Rafa just do one and we get Curbs in?

[KOTP]

More to the point... do you think Rafa would continue to improve us if he had the tools to do the job?

honestly i dont know and if we are being honest we aint gonna find out as the tools he needs are cash that we are never going to have.  plus what worrys me is the case he has had this season he has spent on dossenna who never really impressed me the times i saw him in italy and robbie keane who was never gonna fit into the formation. maybe as some have said in this thread he didnt make those purchases but if he didnt with what he has come out in the past and said i wouldnt have been suprised if he didnt say something. and lets not forget it was benitez that started talkin about keane in the press.

BUT FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL WHICH WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE MAIN POINT ONW IN THIS THREAD IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A COMPARISON BETWEEN HOULLIER AND RAFA AS I HAVE CONSTANTLY SAID IN THIS THREAD THERE IS NO COMPARRISON THERE AS RAFA HAS CLEARLY DONE BETTER SO CAN PEOPLE STOP ASKIN THIS AS ITS GETTIN RATHER BORING NOW ANSWERIN IT

[martinjmmac5]

Missed that one. It's a belter. Funny that lad. You'll be offering me out next I suppose. But what surprises me is, your persistance in thinking you know more than Rafa and qouting the same little couple of gripes over and over. Credit for sticking to your guns, but maybe you really should shut up sometime and listen to some fellas like Shanklyboy and gedo who so really know their stuff. I have a feeling you would make a cracking red but you are just insisting on making yourself look like a beaut.

wouldn't be arsed offering you out to be honest because of a discussion on an internet messageboard, bit of a stupid comment, i'm not saying i'm right i am, as i will say once again just stating my fuckin opinion, there is about 15 of ya's all questioning it for different reasons and i feel i have to reiterate my point, fair enough i've gone a bit o.t.t with the repetativeness tonight but it's hard sat behind a sceen trying to voice your opinion on something your passionate about, especially with people taking it out of context several times. At the end of the day, go all over the place watchin liverpool, don't know that much about footy only a young lad at the end of the day, but for people to honestly believe Lucas is good enough its shocking to me, he is dreadful (just to reiterate IN MY OPINION). As a result i am just a bit insensed that rafa has bought him and stuck with him all this time and i feel that lucas and rafas love for him and some of his negative tactics (not rafa in particular) in ruining our chances of winning the league
forever greatful to rafa for the champions league and f.a cup and that and want him to do well and would love nothing more than seeing him in may with that trophy, never boo never criticise at the match and sing me heart out and give liverpool enough of my fuckin support, so think i have got some right to have a little rant now and then on a messageboard about some inadequacies of our tactics.

[Fat Scouser]

Not sure it's this gaff. I think it's the Internet. Instead of kicking the cat, or having another beer after a late goal screws things up, waking up the next morning, get on with their lives and start looking to the next game, people come on here fret, work themselves up with other fretters, carry on fretting, go to sleep fretting after sharing a midnight fret-in, then wake up and fret some more. It's mass psychosis. Like some doom laden, sadistic cult with Walshy's Mullet as its David Koresh.

That's funny that mate.

I like this board more than most I've been on, but something that really pisses me off is that if ANYONE questions Rafa in a well thought out way, they are castigated for not having blind faith (Good OP is what I'm saying here).

I'm a big Rafa fan. I love the way he has taken us forward and I really hope we'll be there come may, but I think the OP does have a point when it comes to some of Rafas decisions.

Torres coming off. Ok he's on his way back, so I'm fine with that, but leave Keane on. At least bring on Babel rather than Lucas.
Keane for Benny. My best mate is a Spurs fan, so I know a fair bit about them and I know that Keane scores the majority of his goals in the last 15 minutes, so I'd like to see him left on. That's not my real issue though. I think Yossi is a great player, if played centrally, but we're never going to play him there, so I think it's a waste having him there. I agree that Masch would have been better.

I think it is worrying that we don't seem to play with freedom. Our team play like a team who are put into a tactical straight jacket by the manager. It really concerns me that I've seen us play great for about 2 whole games all season.

What am I trying to say with this? I'm saying that I'm still a Rafa fan. I'm still hoping to be there in May. I'm still hoping Rafa can find that last piece of whatever jigsaw it is that he is building. I just have nagging doubts and I want to be able to discuss them without being called a t**t or people picking out one part of a well thought post and commenting on that, rather than taking it in context with the rest of the post.

So for the record I think Rafa is great, I could name loads of things I love about him, but nobody is perfect and I am beginning to have doubts. Being able to discuss them helps me to put that in perspective and assuage those doubts. Being called a t**t doesn't help anyone.

IMO of course

If you like it that much, read it all. The OP hasn't been attacked. Okay, one or two had a little go, but he wasn't attacked. If anything he was given loads of time and treated very politely. And, although he set the cat amongst the pigeons and disappeared for most of the time, all he has had is people asking him reasonable questions. to his credit he has answered every one except one... do you want Rafa sacked?

[lfcmaster]

honestly i dont know and if we are being honest we aint gonna find out as the tools he needs are cash that we are never going to have.  plus what worrys me is the case he has had this season he has spent on dossenna who never really impressed me the times i saw him in italy and robbie keane who was never gonna fit into the formation. maybe as some have said in this thread he didnt make those purchases but if he didnt with what he has come out in the past and said i wouldnt have been suprised if he didnt say something. and lets not forget it was benitez that started talkin about keane in the press.

BUT FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL WHICH WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE MAIN POINT ONW IN THIS THREAD IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A COMPARISON BETWEEN HOULLIER AND RAFA AS I HAVE CONSTANTLY SAID IN THIS THREAD THERE IS NO COMPARRISON THERE AS RAFA HAS CLEARLY DONE BETTER SO CAN PEOPLE STOP ASKIN THIS AS ITS GETTIN RATHER BORING NOW ANSWERIN IT

i disagree that rafa has done better

houllier won the treble and finished second

rafa won the champions league with houlliers team and the fa cup

[MAL05]

gerrard played under houllier
rafa's team is purely players that rafa has bought so we can compare squads

But you said strongest team.

Plus, Houlier did not buy Gerrard, Carra, Owen & Fowler.  They came through the rank's.

Not a fair comparison mate.

[its cold in the stands]

the man arrives when we are at arguably the lowest point this club had been in since shankly took over, we had a squad full of overpriced flops with little or no sell on value (biscan, le tallec, cheyrou, diao, diouf etc).
the first thing rafa did after taking over was to rush over to the england team hotel during the euro`s to try and convince our two best players to stay......one left.
our style of footy was awful, it was a running joke throughout the league with shouts of `hoof` and even cryuff called us an enemy of footy, saying if every team played like liverpool the game would be dead within a year.
the team was so devoid of confidence that if we went a goal down it was game over, we hadnt overturned a one goal defecit in 2 years and just before rafa arrived we went on the worst run since our second division days over 50 years ago.
on top of that the people who owned the club and recruited rafa said they would have to sell the club because they were skint.
despite all that rafa has changed the dioufs and diao`s and replaced them with the likes of reina, agger, mascherano, alonso and torres, he won the champions league, got to another final, got us to 3 semi finals in four years and has never failed to get out of the group stages (which was regarded as a big feat under houllier), won the f.a cup in a classic final that will go down in history alongside the matthews final and the white horse final beating united and chelsea along the way, got us to a league cup final and he has also amassed our highest ever points total in the premiership.
this season we`ve enjoyed our best start in years and are at worst 3 points behind united and it`s near february!
i know we`ve had a few dissapointing results lately but lets look at the bigger picture, wether we win the title this year or not, we have certainly made massive strides under benitez.

[lfcmaster]

But you said strongest team.

Plus, Houlier did not buy Gerrard, Carra, Owen & Fowler.  They came through the rank's.

Not a fair comparison mate.

proves we still rely on gerrard and that rafa has not bought enough quality

[SallyCinnamon]

proves we still rely on gerrard and that rafa has not bought enough quality

Fishing ? Please be fishing.

[Romford_Red]

That's funny that mate.If you like it that much, read it all. The OP hasn't been attacked. Okay, one or two had a little go, but he wasn't attacked. If anything he was given loads of time and treated very politely. And, although he set the cat amongst the pigeons and disappeared for most of the time, all he has had is people asking him reasonable questions. to his credit he has answered every one except one... do you want Rafa sacked?

I apologise for not reading the whole thread. I read page one and it seemed to be deteriorating so I posted from there. Damn my laziness

As for your question, I find it a very difficult question to answer (So 'No' I guess), because I like an awful lot of what he does, he is dignified, has bought well and has shown the guts to sell a player he has made a mistake on after as little as 12 months, which I think is a wonderful trait in a manager and as many have said, I can't see anyone better.

On the other hand I'd like to see us be more expansive and play with a bit more imagination and freedom, which Rafa is never going to do.

I think I read someone say that he should be assessed on the next 18 months, which is probably right.

[martinjmmac5]

Was you about in the Shankly years?

look there ya go again, all about age with ya isn't it, nobody can have an opinion if they are under 25.

just as a matter of interest who would you have brought on, cause we needed to put fresh legs on, as i said before keane was non existent and torres needed to be changed, and just incase you say babel, doesn't he play left wing

i would have kept torres on for 90 fuckin minutes, what is the stigma with a striker playing 90 minutes, even a nando with 2 broken legs sttod up front, he could pull something out the bag or at least stand there and hold it up for a bit.

[Fat Scouser]

honestly i dont know and if we are being honest we aint gonna find out as the tools he needs are cash that we are never going to have.  plus what worrys me is the case he has had this season he has spent on dossenna who never really impressed me the times i saw him in italy and robbie keane who was never gonna fit into the formation. maybe as some have said in this thread he didnt make those purchases but if he didnt with what he has come out in the past and said i wouldnt have been suprised if he didnt say something. and lets not forget it was benitez that started talkin about keane in the press.

BUT FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL WHICH WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE MAIN POINT ONW IN THIS THREAD IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A COMPARISON BETWEEN HOULLIER AND RAFA AS I HAVE CONSTANTLY SAID IN THIS THREAD THERE IS NO COMPARRISON THERE AS RAFA HAS CLEARLY DONE BETTER SO CAN PEOPLE STOP ASKIN THIS AS ITS GETTIN RATHER BORING NOW ANSWERIN IT

I've only asked you one question really... do you think Rafa should be sacked.

wouldn't be arsed offering you out to be honest because of a discussion on an internet messageboard, bit of a stupid comment, i'm not saying i'm right i am, as i will say once again just stating my fuckin opinion, there is about 15 of ya's all questioning it for different reasons and i feel i have to reiterate my point, fair enough i've gone a bit o.t.t with the repetativeness tonight but it's hard sat behind a sceen trying to voice your opinion on something your passionate about, especially with people taking it out of context several times. At the end of the day, go all over the place watchin liverpool, don't know that much about footy only a young lad at the end of the day, but for people to honestly believe Lucas is good enough its shocking to me, he is dreadful (just to reiterate IN MY OPINION). As a result i am just a bit insensed that rafa has bought him and stuck with him all this time and i feel that lucas and rafas love for him and some of his negative tactics (not rafa in particular) in ruining our chances of winning the league
forever greatful to rafa for the champions league and f.a cup and that and want him to do well and would love nothing more than seeing him in may with that trophy, never boo never criticise at the match and sing me heart out and give liverpool enough of my fuckin support, so think i have got some right to have a little rant now and then on a messageboard about some inadequacies of our tactics.

As for you young fella me lad, go write 500 lines... I must not wuestion Rafa or Fat Scouser. I will listen to older reds like Shanklyboy and Gedo and I will become the best red I can.

Remember lad, it's auld c*nts like me who handed you the baton. Believe ot or not, there is a thing or two to be learned by listening to them

[Nick110581]

Fishing ? Please be fishing.

What she said?

Your posts make no sense and if you want them too please back them up.

[se9R.F.L]

I like this board more than most I've been on, but something that really pisses me off is that if ANYONE questions Rafa in a well thought out way, they are castigated for not having blind faith (Good OP is what I'm saying here).

I think it's more that those who criticize Rafa will be met by those who support him, it's just that some people, on both sides of the fence, can't put their argument across without being aggressive and resorting to name-calling.

I will always back Rafa until i truly think he can't take us any further, which is basically what this thread was about, and for me that day is a long long way off. There's a lot more to come from the squad that he's building.

[KOTP]

i dont think he should be sacke immediately which i have said perviously as i would never agree with sacking a manager in the middle of a season, and personally think clubs should be made to stick with the manager they have at the start of the season until the end of it.
 but come the end of the season i would say so yes as i cant see him getting us any further i maybe wrong and if rafa stays and proves me wrong i will be the first to admit to it

[Fat Scouser]

i would have kept torres on for 90 fuckin minutes, what is the stigma with a striker playing 90 minutes, even a nando with 2 broken legs sttod up front, he could pull something out the bag or at least stand there and hold it up for a bit.

that's why you should leave managing LFC to Rafa and you should stick to the supporting - not being a fan... SUPPORTING! there is a difference.

[SallyCinnamon]

i would have kept torres on for 90 fuckin minutes, what is the stigma with a striker playing 90 minutes, even a nando with 2 broken legs sttod up front, he could pull something out the bag or at least stand there and hold it up for a bit.

And that just proves what a clueless muppet you realy are lad,you would risk Torres possibly being out for another 4 months..

Say it aint so.

[MAL05]

proves we still rely on gerrard and that rafa has not bought enough quality

You know, that's another point that really fucks me off when its said, and to hear it from another red is bemusing.  What the fuck is Rafa supposed to do?  Say to Gerrard, look I know you are one of the best players in the world but don't play so well today? FFS.  We do not rely on Gerrard, he is just world class, head and shoulders above most, and can do it all.  You try to hold that back.  Gerrard's do not come around that often, at all.  Let him fucking do his stuff week in week out I say, and get off our backs for having him!

[DangerScouse]

i disagree that rafa has done better

houllier won the treble and finished second

rafa won the champions league with houlliers team and the fa cup

I'm lost for words . . . . . .

[its cold in the stands]

look there ya go again, all about age with ya isn't it, nobody can have an opinion if they are under 25.

i would have kept torres on for 90 fuckin minutes, what is the stigma with a striker playing 90 minutes, even a nando with 2 broken legs sttod up front, he could pull something out the bag or at least stand there and hold it up for a bit.

it was plain to see torres was knackered, he`d only played a few minutes against preston and a few minutes against stoke in months.
i would have liked to have seen babel up front though, he`s shown a few times like away at marseille twice and arsenal in the champions league that he`s a threat when a team try`s to pressure us.

[BCCC]

the man arrives when we are at arguably the lowest point this club had been in since shankly took over, we had a squad full of overpriced flops with little or no sell on value (biscan, le tallec, cheyrou, diao, diouf etc).
the first thing rafa did after taking over was to rush over to the england team hotel during the euro`s to try and convince our two best players to stay......one left.
our style of footy was awful, it was a running joke throughout the league with shouts of `hoof` and even cryuff called us an enemy of footy, saying if every team played like liverpool the game would be dead within a year.
the team was so devoid of confidence that if we went a goal down it was game over, we hadnt overturned a one goal defecit in 2 years and just before rafa arrived we went on the worst run since our second division days over 50 years ago.
on top of that the people who owned the club and recruited rafa said they would have to sell the club because they were skint.
despite all that rafa has changed the dioufs and diao`s and replaced them with the likes of reina, agger, mascherano, alonso and torres, he won the champions league, got to another final, got us to 3 semi finals in four years and has never failed to get out of the group stages (which was regarded as a big feat under houllier), won the f.a cup in a classic final that will go down in history alongside the matthews final and the white horse final beating united and chelsea along the way, got us to a league cup final and he has also amassed our highest ever points total in the Premier League.
this season we`ve enjoyed our best start in years and are at worst 3 points behind united and it`s near february!
i know we`ve had a few dissapointing results lately but lets look at the bigger picture, wether we win the title this year or not, we have certainly made massive strides under benitez.

Unfortunately a lot of our fans don't know anything about us pre Istanbul so therefore your argument will be lost.