Topic: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50

[PhilV]

Honest to God I believe deep down in side some of you are masochists, you seem to enjoy and revel in absolute misery and something to whinge about. It's no coincidence as soon as it's a poor result,whatever the competition,, you're chomping at the bit with the ''i told you so's'' about xyz, some of yous are even more arsed about being right about something than actually enjoying the same side you've been supporting all of your life.

The inability to have perspective and context and be objective is inexcusable as a logical thinking human being let alone a Liverpool supporter

the evidence to your point being very real is in the match/post-match threads on here and elsewhere, obviously random numbers but whereas after a victory a thread will be 15 pages long, after a defeat its about 30-40. People love a whinge.

[Circa1892]

Obviously the club don't care about the FA Cup. It doesn't come with prestige or (sad that it's a factor) money anymore.

Fact is - two of the last three FA Cup winning managers were fired days after and the last time we got to the final our manager was fired after aswell. It's not a priority for big clubs anymore. Our performance was shit, and our fringe players were dire - but it's probably not that big a deal anymore.

[Cheesehead]

I'm more of the thinking I don't want to be involved in an intense quarter final against Arsenal, a bruising encounter with Chelsea in the Semis and a massive final with Man City in May.

Neither do I. Why do the games have to be like that? Maybe we get a couple of games against lower league opposition. Maybe we get beat by Bayern so the cup would be a nice distraction. I thought winning spurs you on. That’s how I remember 2001.

[So… Howard Philips]

Out of interest, what inspired you to join the forum yesterday?

On the subject of Englishness and the attitude to the cup. The first time I saw us win the FA Cup we didn't have an English manager, and we didn't have single English player in the starting 11. I've seen us win 4 FA Cups since then. Not one of them with an English manager. The attitude to the cup  has nothing to do with nationality and everything to do with the changing demands of the modern game.

Have we ever won the FA cup with an English manager?

[RainbowFlick]

The first half was strange all around. Sturridge making no real runs or anything. Weird to watch.

Oh well. We don't really have a huge squad to compete on all fronts. The likes of Man City have a practically world class second string, whereas most of our second string are still either quite young, injury prone... or frankly players we'd probably sell if we could.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Why would my time on here be brief? Strange post.

I don’t think last night gave Man City the momentum, I think last Thursday did. I think they’ll go unbeaten from here, winning about 15 of their games so it’ll be a monumental effort to stay above them.

So to stay above them, do you think LFC could take any actions to improve their chances in the league?

[ThePoolMan]

If we keep getting stronger, there wlll come a time when we have a deep enough squad to compete for every cup we play for. But at this time, it has to be the EPL and the CL.

[Smellytrabs]

I think they’ll go unbeaten from here, winning about 15 of their games so it’ll be a monumental effort to stay above them.

City will drop more points in the 2nd half of the season than they did in the first, just like last season and the season before that. They don't pace themselves, and they will struggle with keeping everyone fit while fighting on 4 fronts.  The most encouraging thing about the game against City last week was the sight of Kompany begging to come off at the end. This is going to be a hell of a run-in for them and they don't have a good track record in recent years of being able to sustain their momentum after Christmas.

[meady1981]

Neither do I. Why do the games have to be like that? Maybe we get a couple of games against lower league opposition. Maybe we get beat by Bayern so the cup would be a nice distraction. I thought winning spurs you on. That’s how I remember 2001.

Let's agree to disagree.
I honestly was thinking about Brighton before, during and after the game so I'm gonna crack on with trying and failing to get a ticket.
See you at the end of the season!

[So… Howard Philips]

Obviously the club don't care about the FA Cup. It doesn't come with prestige or (sad that it's a factor) money anymore.

Fact is - two of the last three FA Cup winning managers were fired days after and the last time we got to the final our manager was fired after aswell. It's not a priority for big clubs anymore. Our performance was shit, and our fringe players were dire - but it's probably not that big a deal anymore.

You are right about the dire performance. If the fringe players had had a real go at Wolves and we'd lost there would be none of this angst.

It shows that there are players at the club who should be moved on after letting the fans and manager down.

[Smellytrabs]

Have we ever won the FA cup with an English manager?

No.

[PhilV]

Haha you’ve literally just said you don’t care about winning cups!

I care. I just think Man City will win 15 games from here and that’ll be difficult to match. No defeatism just realism.

It's not realism, it's simply an opinion at present, did you think City were going to lose the games that they did in December for example, or that we were gonna win 8 on the bounce?

The reality of the Premier League and why so many love it and it still remains the most popular is because anyone can beat anyone, that is true for anywhere I guess but much more probable here, so no, it's not a guarantee they will win 15 from here and the very same rule applies to us, we could go and lose 10 in a row now for all you or I know, and the same is true for City no matter who they have.

We HAVE to take it one game at a time, play who's in front of us and take it to them, no games are guaranteed victories - that is true for anyone.

[Cheesehead]

Lovren played in the FA Cup fixture. He is now injured. If we'd played other first team players, it's possible that they could have been injured or red carded.

If they'd been injured or red carded or were unavailable for the next fixture then would that be an advantage to Liverpool FC in the league?

If we'd played other first team players, do you think they would be more tired or less tired in the next fixture? Do you think that a player that wasn't selected for the last fixture would likely to be more tired or feel more rested in the subsequent fixture given the large number of games we recently played?


You are hardly in a position to say "Yeah that’s what I’ve said" given your take on people that have given their take on their opinion on the game last night and which players did/didn't play.

First, I’ve not said we shouldn’t have rotated. I just don’t like the snobbery that we are above trying to win the FA Cup or being glad we are out.

Second, the league is everyone’s priority. I don’t think of much else at the moment.

Third, You’re last paragraph makes no sense.

[So… Howard Philips]

Neither do I. Why do the games have to be like that? Maybe we get a couple of games against lower league opposition. Maybe we get beat by Bayern so the cup would be a nice distraction. I thought winning spurs you on. That’s how I remember 2001.

I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure that the team that got through to the League Cup final was fringe players and youngsters - not ye team that played in the final.

[Cheesehead]

It's not realism, it's simply an opinion at present, did you think City were going to lose the games that they did in December for example, or that we were gonna win 8 on the bounce?

The reality of the Premier League and why so many love it and it still remains the most popular is because anyone can beat anyone, that is true for anywhere I guess but much more probable here, so no, it's not a guarantee they will win 15 from here and the very same rule applies to us, we could go and lose 10 in a row now for all you or I know, and the same is true for City no matter who they have.

We HAVE to take it one game at a time, play who's in front of us and take it to them, no games are guaranteed victories - that is true for anyone.

You’re right it’s not realism it’s my opinion. I just think Man City have the experience and will be difficult to keep at bay.

[Cheesehead]

I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure that the team that got through to the League Cup final was fringe players and youngsters - not ye team that played in the final.

I think you’ll find you’re wrong mate.

[redmark]

Haha you’ve literally just said you don’t care about winning cups!

I care. I just think Man City will win 15 games from here and that’ll be difficult to match. No defeatism just realism.

You need to brush up your reading skills. I don't care about the cups as much as the league and Europe. Never have. That's not 'modern fan brainwashing'. I'd stopped worrying too much about the domestic cups before you saw our last title win. The club never has. United never have, the biggest clubs don't. That doesn't mean I don't care at all. Inside there's still the 9 year old boy who wants to win every single match, and doesn't yet understand why we can't.

When the monkey is off our back, when we're able to use funds to strengthen squad positions beyond the key 16-18 players we need for the league, when we're in a position to rotate key players through busy periods, not forced to rest all of them immediately after it, I'll hold the players and managers to a higher standard.

But I think the reason people are criticising your contributions are the idea that we're "brainwashed" and don't care as much as you do. You've defended your right to disagree, but apparently anyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed or doesn't get the English game. What do you want us to do? If the rotation was wrong - and one of your posts suggested non-English manager and player should give more respect to the traditions of the English game - should we be slating Klopp? If the rotation was ok, should we be crucifying the players who failed? The youngsters who can still have good careers at the club, the fringe players who may still contribute to the title race, those on the way out who we know aren't quite good enough?

[Djimi Smicer34]

Why would my time on here be brief? Strange post.

I don’t think last night gave Man City the momentum, I think last Thursday did. I think they’ll go unbeaten from here, winning about 15 of their games so it’ll be a monumental effort to stay above them.

We went 20 unbeaten before last Thursday so I’m struggling to see the need for such pessimism.

It’s amazing how quickly the complexion of a season can turn around in the minds of some.

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

Not disappointed with the team selection but disappointed with the result and the performances of some of the more experienced players in there - Naby, Shaqiri, Sturridge, even Origi and Moreno especially. Milner was very poor for the first goal but thought he did well throughout the game. Fabinho was great - looked like he could plug a gap next to VVD if he needed to. Mignolet is just a few levels down from what we have.

I think Klopp thought he maybe had enough to get to 70 minutes still in the game and could throw some of Mane/Salah/Firmino on to nick it. It didn't pay off - they had a very strong side out. We move on and take from that game what we saw, what we sort of already knew and hope that Lovren's injury isn't serious.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

First, I’ve not said we shouldn’t have rotated. I just don’t like the snobbery that we are above trying to win the FA Cup or being glad we are out.

Second, the league is everyone’s priority. I don’t think of much else at the moment.

Third, You’re last paragraph makes no sense.

The third paragraph refers to your reverse-snobbery against those that aren't that arsed that we're out.

It may surprise you to know that many of the people you are arguing with at the moment are those that went to all three finals in 2001 and most of the cup games along with it - as well as the FA Cup/League Cup/European finals we've had since then.

If we won the FA Cup and nothing else this season then that's a failure. We need to win the league. Until we do that then Cups show no progress whatsoever.

When Shanks came in, we were a little regarded cup team. I want more than that from Liverpool FC and so did he. He knew that the only way Liverpool FC was to progress as a club was with the Top-Flight league title. That's what we need to concentrate on because that's what will put us back on the world stage. You can win as many cups as you like - and I like going to finals as much as anyone - but it's been nearly 30 years.

Honestly - if we won a shed load of cups now but didn't win the league for another 30 years how could you in any way brand that as 'successful'?

[Andy82lfc]

To be fair since he’s been here he’s hardly given the impression that he really wants it and most people I know who go everywhere expect a reserve team from Klopp in the FA Cup and expect to go ou. We haven’t been past the 4th round under him which is really poor for a club the size of LFC

We made a lot of changes for the match as city did exactly the same. They got an easy drawer we got probably the 6th hardest possible of the entire competition. Klopp as he said had lots of players not feeling great after the last game so even if he had the choice to play more he couldn't risk it, he knows what is more (than most it seems) important to this football club and he is risking going out the fa cup in order to give us a better chance of it. Sometimes when you take these chances it doesn't work out, it's as simple as that.

[clinical]

I'm just not arsed about the league cup or FA cup. Sure it's great to win a trophy. But it's not the league or champions league. The 2 that really matter. Until we have depth like city (we will never have that) then unless you are out of title fight/champions league then FA cup and league cup take a back seat, for me.

A loss was better than a draw last night. Many will disagree. But you have best chance on the other 2 if you forget about the cups. I'm sure Jurgen agrees otherwise he wouldn't have made so many changes.

[RSoares21]

The first half was strange all around. Sturridge making no real runs or anything. Weird to watch.

Oh well. We don't really have a huge squad to compete on all fronts. The likes of Man City have a practically world class second string, whereas most of our second string are still either quite young, injury prone... or frankly players we'd probably sell if we could.

There was a ball which origi clipped over the top of the defense for sturridge and keeper came for it and gathered it but Sturridge seemed to not really even put effort into getting it. Jogged for it and then made no pressure on the keeper. Was weird.

The thing i didnt get is why klopp didnt offer Hoever more protection. Camacho was still up the pitch most of the time. Should of just told him to not go forward so much and just focus on defending. Hoever was too exposed at times.

[Cheesehead]

You need to brush up your reading skills. I don't care about the cups as much as the league and Europe. Never have. That's not 'modern fan brainwashing'. I'd stopped worrying too much about the domestic cups before you saw our last title win. The club never has. United never have, the biggest clubs don't. That doesn't mean I don't care at all. Inside there's still the 9 year old boy who wants to win every single match, and doesn't yet understand why we can't.

When the monkey is off our back, when we're able to use funds to strengthen squad positions beyond the key 16-18 players we need for the league, when we're in a position to rotate key players through busy periods, not forced to rest all of them immediately after it, I'll hold the players and managers to a higher standard.

But I think the reason people are criticising your contributions are the idea that we're "brainwashed" and don't care as much as you do. You've defended your right to disagree, but apparently anyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed or doesn't get the English game. What do you want us to do? If the rotation was wrong - and one of your posts suggested non-English manager and player should give more respect to the traditions of the English game - should we be slating Klopp? If the rotation was ok, should we be crucifying the players who failed? The youngsters who can still have good careers at the club, the fringe players who may still contribute to the title race, those on the way out who we know aren't quite good enough?

Obviously that’s the same for everyone as regards to your first line!

Loads seem to be happy or not bothered about going out of the cup. I can never get on board with that.

I think people are brainwashed into thinking the cups don’t matter. The clubs have done that. It wasn’t always the case of fans not caring tho.

The bit about non English manager came about in response to a poster saying maybe no one cares anymore as most of the club(players mangers fans) are not English never mind scouse. I said we always did care and shouldn’t change, those coming to the club from afar should change their mentality towards domestic cups not the other way round.

[Yorkykopite]

I care. I just think Man City will win 15 games from here and that’ll be difficult to match. No defeatism just realism.

The famous 12th man.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Clubs like city have a second string side that can compete for the league and FA cups, we don't. It's not a priority and hasn't been for many a year.

I'm more pissed that Lovren started the game and got injured given our current problems in that area. Our players now have some decent rest weekends and more time to concentrate and prepare for vital league matches. The title is the holy grail and will remain so until we win it.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Haha you’ve literally just said you don’t care about winning cups!

I care. I just think Man City will win 15 games from here and that’ll be difficult to match. No defeatism just realism.

City have lost 3 in the last 6/7? matches. They aren't not losing again with the champions league, FA cup and league cup to think about.

[Cheesehead]

The third paragraph refers to your reverse-snobbery against those that aren't that arsed that we're out.

It may surprise you to know that many of the people you are arguing with at the moment are those that went to all three finals in 2001 and most of the cup games along with it - as well as the FA Cup/League Cup/European finals we've had since then.

If we won the FA Cup and nothing else this season then that's a failure. We need to win the league. Until we do that then Cups show no progress whatsoever.

When Shanks came in, we were a little regarded cup team. I want more than that from Liverpool FC and so did he. He knew that the only way Liverpool FC was to progress as a club was with the Top-Flight league title. That's what we need to concentrate on because that's what will put us back on the world stage. You can win as many cups as you like - and I like going to finals as much as anyone - but it's been nearly 30 years.

Honestly - if we won a shed load of cups now but didn't win the league for another 30 years how could you in any way brand that as 'successful'?

Reverse snobbery?? I’m not with you.

I also went to all 3 finals and most of the games in between in 2001. It was a special time.

If we win nothing this season it will be a failure. If we win the FA Cup and come 2nd in the league on 95 points it’s not a failure. The only time the season shouldn’t be viewed as a success when winning a cup is if we are say 25 points off the top and out of the top4 places, in my opinion obviously.

To your last paragraph, no I would brand no league title for another 30 years as success. Where have I suggested that?

If we are going to give up on the cups we could go to 10 years without a trophy! Would we happy then?

[Phil M]

Lovely goal by Divock. The free kick goes in and we're probably still in the draw today.

Lovren stays on the pitch and we don't lose our defensive shape.

Wolves played well enough to deserve the win overall, it was never going to be easy given the changes made.

Disappointing to go our, it always is, but given our current situation less games to play is favourable, we have bigger tests to come.

[Cheesehead]

The famous 12th man.

The irony.

[Sharado]

I also went to all 3 finals and most of the games in between in 2001. It was a special time.

Hmmmmm.

[Yorkykopite]

The irony.

It’s your defeatism mate. It’s just horrible.

[RSoares21]

We were unlucky in the draw. Having played so much in december til now we were always going to field a weakened team. If we had got a league 1 side or even championship side we could have gone through a couple rounds. We got a team that are a STRONG prem team and are comfortable in the league so they didnt need to field a weakened side to rest for more important league games.
Everyone loves a cup run and it does my head in when we are 20 points behind in the league at this stage and still play weakened sides in cup games but if any season is the season to do that then its this one!

[Cheesehead]

Hmmmmm.

What mate?

[clinical]

Reverse snobbery?? I’m not with you.

I also went to all 3 finals and most of the games in between in 2001. It was a special time.

If we win nothing this season it will be a failure. If we win the FA Cup and come 2nd in the league on 95 points it’s not a failure. The only time the season shouldn’t be viewed as a success when winning a cup is if we are say 25 points off the top and out of the top4 places, in my opinion obviously.

To your last paragraph, no I would brand no league title for another 30 years as success. Where have I suggested that?

If we are going to give up on the cups we could go to 10 years without a trophy! Would we happy then?

I know that question wasn't put to me but....Not happy, but if it gave us the best chance to win league or champions league I'll take that everyday of the week. If we are in a title battle and still in champions league with more and more injuries happening sacking off the cups is the best move we can make.

If we were where Chelsea, Utd Arsenal are in the league then it's a different story. We are not city. They have 2 or even 3 top players in each position.

We have a priority list.

League
Champions league
Fa cup
League cup.

But I don't know what job you have but to meet priority number 1 until it's not possible we would sacrifice resource for the lower priorities.

[Phil M]

https://streamable.com/iy9wb

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Obviously that’s the same for everyone as regards to your first line!

Loads seem to be happy or not bothered about going out of the cup. I can never get on board with that.

I think people are brainwashed into thinking the cups don’t matter. The clubs have done that. It wasn’t always the case of fans not caring tho.

The bit about non English manager came about in response to a poster saying maybe no one cares anymore as most of the club(players mangers fans) are not English never mind scouse. I said we always did care and shouldn’t change, those coming to the club from afar should change their mentality towards domestic cups not the other way round.

Yeah you keep saying that.

I will ask you again,do you think that Klopp set the team up and sent them out to fail ?

[Cheesehead]

It’s your defeatism mate. It’s just horrible.

Yeah I don’t like it either! I’ve nothing but failures in the league to go off. So until we win it, I can’t help but feel this way. I’m hoping if we do win it I’ll be more relaxed and positive going forwards.

The irony comes from the fact I’m disagreeing with mass defeatism/apathy towards the cups amongst our fans.

[na fir dearg]

Hmmmmm.

alarm bells

[Cheesehead]

Yeah you keep saying that.

I will ask you again,do you think that Klopp set the team up and sent them out to fail ?

I think Klopp isn’t upset at being out.