Topic: Alfie Evans

[Lush is the best medicine...]

These fucking religious nutjobs providing false hope for desperate parents, who get sucked in to this frenzy, and demonise people who've devoted their lives to saving the lives of children. It's totally fucked up. It becomes hard to sympathise with the parents after they have helped create hysteria like this, that has affected staff, patients and families at Alder Hey. Awful stuff.

those need addressing sharpish, don’t want to become like America with the influence some of those nutters have there on one of the political parties

[Lush is the best medicine...]

The way his father has acted has been disgraceful and he should be prosecuted. He has incited this, called for them to storm the hospital, to keep making noise and so on. He is an utter utter scumbag.

they need to do that when the lad passes away, no way can he be allowed to get off with his behaviour as it will encourage others to act in this disgusting manner

[SlowRap]

So he can breathe on his own. That still doesn't change the fact that he's brain dead and has zero quality of life. He has to be fed and watered through a tube and has zero responsiveness. This will never get better, only worse. They need to let him go. Feel for them, I really do, but only because of this

The way his father has acted has been disgraceful and he should be prosecuted. He has incited this, called for them to storm the hospital, to keep making noise and so on. He is an utter utter scumbag. If he wants to take his kid to Rome to prolong his suffering then I say let them. Give them all Italian citizenship and revoke their British citizenship and let them fuck off over there

Don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes, on the one hand he is causing a nuisance to the hospital staff and other patients on the other he's doing absolutely everything to keep his son alive - I agree with you though that they should get the chance to transfer him to Italy, if reports are believed an Italian hospital has prepped transport for Alfie so just waiting on his release.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes, on the one hand he is causing a nuisance to the hospital staff and other patients on the other he's doing absolutely everything to keep his son alive - I agree with you though that they should get the chance to transfer him to Italy, if reports are believed an Italian hospital has prepped transport for Alfie so just waiting on his release.

plenty of others have been in his situation and haven’t acted like this

[liversaint]

A mate of mine works at Great Ormond St and they had this shit recently. Having to run the gauntlet of these scumbags to get into work in the morning, having abuse shouted at them every day, bags full of hate mail daily, being called murderers. These fucking religious nutjobs providing false hope for desperate parents, who get sucked in to this frenzy, and demonise people who've devoted their lives to saving the lives of children. It's totally fucked up. It becomes hard to sympathise with the parents after they have helped create hysteria like this, that has affected staff, patients and families at Alder Hey. Awful stuff.

Went massively downhill as soon as the Pope got involved. Thats a green light to the cranks and pro-lifers.

[CraigDS]

Don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes, on the one hand he is causing a nuisance to the hospital staff and other patients on the other he's doing absolutely everything to keep his son alive - I agree with you though that they should get the chance to transfer him to Italy, if reports are believed an Italian hospital has prepped transport for Alfie so just waiting on his release.

If those things fall outside of the law, and impact innocent people trying to do their jobs, or worse yet impact directly on the health of other children being treated, then that person should be judged.

I have no doubt in his mind he is doing these things for the right reasons, and I'd hate to be in the position he is, but you can't go encouraging some of the things happening outside that hospital.

[ScottScott]

Don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes, on the one hand he is causing a nuisance to the hospital staff and other patients on the other he's doing absolutely everything to keep his son alive - I agree with you though that they should get the chance to transfer him to Italy, if reports are believed an Italian hospital has prepped transport for Alfie so just waiting on his release.

I feel for them, I do. There are thousands, if not millions of parents of go through similar at Alder Hey over the years and none of them have ever done this. None of them have started what is effectively a riot outside of a children's hospital. The doctors and nurses in there do everything they can to save children and they are having to sneak in and out of work for fear of being abused or even worse and that all comes down to him. Once that child dies he needs to be prosecuted because it's unacceptable and we don't want to set an example to others who don't agree with doctors that they can just start acting like this

[SlowRap]

I feel for them, I do. There are thousands, if not millions of parents of go through similar at Alder Hey over the years and none of them have ever done this. None of them have started what is effectively a riot outside of a children's hospital. The doctors and nurses in there do everything they can to save children and they are having to sneak in and out of work for fear of being abused or even worse and that all comes down to him. Once that child dies he needs to be prosecuted because it's unacceptable and we don't want to set an example to others who don't agree with doctors that they can just start acting like this

There won't be any example set as it's such a rare occurrence - there isn't a rule book you can throw at a father fighting for his son's life, I'm pretty sure he'd gladly give up his own life in order to save his son as most fathers would, threatening him with legislation won't make a slight bit of difference. 

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I feel for them, I do. There are thousands, if not millions of parents of go through similar at Alder Hey over the years and none of them have ever done this. None of them have started what is effectively a riot outside of a children's hospital. The doctors and nurses in there do everything they can to save children and they are having to sneak in and out of work for fear of being abused or even worse and that all comes down to him. Once that child dies he needs to be prosecuted because it's unacceptable and we don't want to set an example to others who don't agree with doctors that they can just start acting like this

Spot on.

It's a disgrace. It's one thing to love your kids and be desperate, it's another to fuck over a load of other innocent patients (also kids) and staff by causing this 'outrage'.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

There won't be any example set as it's such a rare occurrence - there isn't a rule book you can throw at a father fighting for his son's life, I'm pretty sure he'd gladly give up his own life in order to save his son as most fathers would, threatening him with legislation won't make a slight bit of difference. 

if you think letting the dad get away with some of the stuff he’s done won’t encourage people in the future is a good idea then god help you, as for rulebooks encouraging people to abuse the staff and cause huge disruption and stress to other parents with sick kids is beyond the pale

[ScottScott]

There won't be any example set as it's such a rare occurrence - there isn't a rule book you can throw at a father fighting for his son's life, I'm pretty sure he'd gladly give up his own life in order to save his son as most fathers would, threatening him with legislation won't make a slight bit of difference.

The issue is what stops the next family who don't agree with a decision from causing this outside a hospital? If it was up to me I'd have the riot police down there and they'd be getting the same treatment football fans would be if it was at a match and we tried to storm inside a ground or somewhere

[stewil007]

I made the mistake of reading the twitter comments after Alder Hey released a statement today. 

Some these people are nutjobs, they start out with thoughts and prayers and after a few comments about experts and proof from reasoned people, they start getting very nasty very quickly.

Honestly, what goes through these people minds.

My "favourite" tweet was saying that everybody should have their opinion listened to, it shouldn't just be left to the experts.

[CraigDS]

My "favourite" tweet was saying that everybody should have their opinion listened to, it shouldn't just be left to the experts.

Maybe next time they go the doctors, or if they are ever unlucky enough to need hospital care, we'll all be allowed our opinion on how they should be treated...

[So… Howard Philips]

I made the mistake of reading the twitter comments after Alder Hey released a statement today. 

Some these people are nutjobs, they start out with thoughts and prayers and after a few comments about experts and proof from reasoned people, they start getting very nasty very quickly.

Honestly, what goes through these people minds.

My "favourite" tweet was saying that everybody should have their opinion listened to, it shouldn't just be left to the experts.

This is the problem with social media, isn't it? It gives a voice to every idiot and once in a blue moon one of them will be proved right and it will go on and on.

It's just disgraceful picketing a hospital. Fair enough, have a demo outside a court building, they are there to deal with controversy, but a children's hospital?

They all need to have a good look at themselves but for this crowd self awareness is probably nil.

[A-Bomb]

I'm wholeheartedly in support of any family wishing to explore every single avenue available to them, however this has to be done responsibly with respect for all parties involved and decorum.

I recognise they are both young parents and emotions are running high, which makes it all the more important to remain calm and behave rationally. Whipping up a frenzy does not change the health or situation the young boy finds himself in.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Maybe next time they go the doctors, or if they are ever unlucky enough to need hospital care, we'll all be allowed our opinion on how they should be treated...

theres some out there who think doctors should be their lackey and give them whatever they want instead of listen to people who know about it, I mean Tom Evans seems to think the lads brain can improve, I mean how is he in any way qualified on this matter to come to that conclusion?

My "favourite" tweet was saying that everybody should have their opinion listened to, it shouldn't just be left to the experts.

that person probably thinks anybody can do any job, especially them as they can do much much better jobs than they have. Probably think they can fly a plane because there has been pilots who’ve crashed planes

[Nobby Reserve]

I mean Tom Evans seems to think the lads brain can improve, I mean how is he in any way qualified on this matter to come to that conclusion?

The power of prayer?

[Super MAC]

Apt I feel

[gazzalfc]

The #alfiesarmy crowd makes me feel sick and ashamed of this city. I also include the Liverpool Echo and Radio City in this by stoking the fires by their constant updates and footage of the 'protest'. Attacks on a hospital and staff is shameful and embarrassing.

I've seen posts comparing his treatment to that of the jews during the holocaust.

Alder Hey is a world renowned childrens hospital with some of the best paediatric medical staff available on the planet. Their work is beyond reproach and they are the real miracle workers.

The current argument feels a very catholic 'right to life' argument. Hence the trip to the Vatican and the hastily arranged Italian citizenship. Also the involvement of The Christian Legal Centre I find very disturbing

There really is no argument past a medical/science one. All possible diagnostic roads have been exhausted. Every side of the argument knows and understands that there is no possible cure or ability to have any form of recovery from this point. It is a case of making sure that the child is comfortable and not suffering.

[liversaint]

The #alfiesarmy crowd makes me feel sick and ashamed of this city. I also include the Liverpool Echo and Radio City in this by stoking the fires by their constant updates and footage of the 'protest'. Attacks on a hospital and staff is shameful and embarrassing.

I've seen posts comparing his treatment to that of the jews during the holocaust.

Alder Hey is a world renowned childrens hospital with some of the best paediatric medical staff available on the planet. Their work is beyond reproach and they are the real miracle workers.

The current argument feels a very catholic 'right to life' argument. Hence the trip to the Vatican and the hastily arranged Italian citizenship. Also the involvement of The Christian Legal Centre I find very disturbing

There really is no argument past a medical/science one. All possible diagnostic roads have been exhausted. Every side of the argument knows and understands that there is no possible cure or ability to have any form of recovery from this point. It is a case of making sure that the child is comfortable and not suffering.

Agree 100% re the Echo,  awful rag. What they haven't reported is the amount from outside the city on day trips and the right to life nut jobs who deny proven science. Said it earlier, as soon as the Pope involved its gone downhill.

The staff are totally fed up with the circus as well.

[thejbs]

Forget the right to life, we need a right to death as well. We all should have the right to die with dignity.  The whole thing here is a shameful circus that is potentially endangering the lives of other kids.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I obviously missed it so could somebody fill me in on what Alfies old man has been up to.

[Qston]

I feel for them, I do. There are thousands, if not millions of parents of go through similar at Alder Hey over the years and none of them have ever done this. None of them have started what is effectively a riot outside of a children's hospital. The doctors and nurses in there do everything they can to save children and they are having to sneak in and out of work for fear of being abused or even worse and that all comes down to him. Once that child dies he needs to be prosecuted because it's unacceptable and we don't want to set an example to others who don't agree with doctors that they can just start acting like this

The very same parents who will have desperately ill children in Alder Hey but are probably terrified of what they, and other family members, face everytime they go there at the moment. That's aside from the staff running a daily gauntlet.

The demonstrations outside are utterly disgraceful. Storming a children's hospital ?! How the hell does that help anyone, including the very person they are allegedly there to support ?

I am all for parents having the right to discuss, challenge and seek outside assistance in the terrible circumstances they find themselves in. However, they have done nothing to calm the situation down. All it would take is a statement politely requesting their supporters now go home and leave staff and other patients and visitors alone.

[rob1966]

Forget the right to life, we need a right to death as well. We all should have the right to die with dignity.  The whole thing here is a shameful circus that is potentially endangering the lives of other kids.

When my Mum was in agony, dying in hospital, she begged me to kill her. I wanted to, but I would have been done for murder. The hospital made her as comfortable as possible until she died about 2 weeks later. Right now my Father in Law is in a nursing home, he has dementia and is a shell - half the time he hasn't a clue what is going on, the rest he is getting frustrated as he cannot string sentences together, has said he just wants to go to sleep. They took him out on Saturday, took a pic of him with the Grandkids and showed him the picture - he didn't recognise himself. No quality of life, but cannot choose to die.

I adore my two sons, but if either of them got an illness that resulted in no quality of life for him and the doctors said it was never going to get better, it would devastate us, but I would think of them first and let them go. He might live longer than they expect, but we had that with our Mum - the docs said she had 3 days to live, she survived for another 2 and a half weeks, but those weeks were dreadful for her.

[gazzalfc]

I obviously missed it so could somebody fill me in on what Alfies old man has been up to.

So whilst his child is suffering in hospital he has been appearing in numerous courts for appeals, flown to the Vatican for a personal meeting with the Pope and thrown himself in front of cameras saying the hospital has caused his suffering by refusing him oxygen and water

[glewis93]

It's an absolute minefield at the minute for anyone who has any differing opinion to Alfies army. I've been called gullible for listening to multiple experts, reading the court documents and coming to my own conclusion that Alfie, as sad as the situation is, has no treatment options. Prolonging a life when doctors don't believe it's in the patients best interest goes against their own oath to do what is best for everyone.

And that is the crux of this issue. It's not about the parents feelings (although I'm certain Alder Hey have operated with great compassion and care as they do for thousands of others) it's about the young child that is heartbreakingly dying because of a condition we don't understand and can't treat. Alfies Army has become a burden for the family without them realising. The media attention it has garnered, the anger and viciousness directed towards a hospital who have already kept Alfie on ventilation for over a year, the whole thing is a circus.

The fake news and false hope being pedalled is evident when people are arguing that Alfie should be able to go to Italy to "give him a chance", not even the Italian doctors give him a chance. He's terminal, but that's not evident to any of them, because they've not bothered to read the details and are being called to arms on exploitative facebook videos designed to tug at heart strings.

Let the young boy go, as hard as it may be. 

[Ray K]

Paul Kelso

Breaking: Court told Tom Evans began private prosecution to have three names doctors charged with conspiracy to murder yesterday. Papers were served on doctors yesterday.

Paul Diamond, barrister for #AlfieEvans’ dad Tom Evans, admits he is “clutching at straws” but insists there are “no hostilities towards the NHS”.
Judge responds: “That simply doesn’t square” with conspiracy to commit murder allegations.

***

Parents should be jailed.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Paul Kelso

Breaking: Court told Tom Evans began private prosecution to have three names doctors charged with conspiracy to murder yesterday. Papers were served on doctors yesterday.

Paul Diamond, barrister for #AlfieEvans’ dad Tom Evans, admits he is “clutching at straws” but insists there are “no hostilities towards the NHS”.
Judge responds: “That simply doesn’t square” with conspiracy to commit murder allegations.

***

Parents should be jailed.

can they be jailed, would have thought the doctors could only countersue?

[glewis93]

Paul Kelso

Breaking: Court told Tom Evans began private prosecution to have three names doctors charged with conspiracy to murder yesterday. Papers were served on doctors yesterday.

Paul Diamond, barrister for #AlfieEvans’ dad Tom Evans, admits he is “clutching at straws” but insists there are “no hostilities towards the NHS”.
Judge responds: “That simply doesn’t square” with conspiracy to commit murder allegations.

***

Parents should be jailed.

That is absolutely outrageous. When your own barrister says you're clutching at straws that's a sign you're being extremely stupid.

[CraigDS]

Why do the parents have separate lawyers?

[glewis93]

Why do the parents have separate lawyers?

I think I read that the barrister for the father has just turned up today saying he's representing him.

They were getting legal help from that Christian Legal Center weren't they at first, they keeping both on?

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

That is absolutely outrageous.

Pure evil 

[Snail]

Paul Kelso

Breaking: Court told Tom Evans began private prosecution to have three names doctors charged with conspiracy to murder yesterday. Papers were served on doctors yesterday.

Paul Diamond, barrister for #AlfieEvans’ dad Tom Evans, admits he is “clutching at straws” but insists there are “no hostilities towards the NHS”.
Judge responds: “That simply doesn’t square” with conspiracy to commit murder allegations.

***

Parents should be jailed.

Tom Evans and his “army” of scruffs can absolutely do one.

[Giovanni]

That is absolutely outrageous. When your own barrister says you're clutching at straws that's a sign you're being extremely stupid.

His barrister probably encouraged it.

He just wants the gravy train to keep rolling, like all vulture lawyers

[gazzalfc]

I really hope this is more a case of him being really badly represented legally. The use of the Christian legal centre in all this is disturbing. Especially if they are doing this for free as there is a clear agenda here.

He has now gone from a loving parent fighting to give his child's death meaning by attempting to find a diagnosis (not that i agree with that sentiment) to an attention seeking fool being played off by his 'army', his legal team and the media playing this out in front of the cameras.

Any remaining sympathy I had for their cause disappeared the second they started setting up a bouncy castle and karaoke outside the hospital.

[glewis93]

The core of Alfies Army are going to blindly believe whatever they are told by Tom Evans. He's almost like a preacher to them at this point.

What he is doing though is turning the sympathy and empathy - from even those who sided with Alder Hey- into contempt for how he's handling this. He's accusing medical professionals of murder because they are unable to save his son. Professionals who have spent years of their lives helping sick children now have to answer to murder charges because this man can't accept what is reality.

I have no doubt the allegations will be dismissed very quickly but he's just adding fuel to this ridiculous conspiracy theory fire.

[realtarragona]

Tom Evans and his “army” of scruffs can absolutely do one.

He certainly knows a thing or two about conspiracy to murder.

[Snail]

He certainly knows a thing or two about conspiracy to murder.

 

[Qston]

That is absolutely outrageous. When your own barrister says you're clutching at straws that's a sign you're being extremely stupid.

Completely agree.

I would imagine the NHS Lawyers will make an application to strike out the claim on the basis that it is frivilous, vexatious and an abuse of process as it has absolutely no chance of success. I would also imagine they will be successful. They should then seek payment of their costs for the application and anything else the idiot is costing them.

[J_Kopite]

I advise anyone keen on obtaining a headache to read Tweets about this, especially The Secret Barristers takedown of Fox News Liz Wheeler and the Americans in the comments