Author Topic: Junior Football - Advice  (Read 2535 times)

Offline richiedouglas

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,116
  • You feed beefburgers to swans!
Junior Football - Advice
« on: September 16, 2018, 09:23:09 am »
My son (6) has started playing football in an under 8’s team. It’s for a small village who don’t have enough for an under 7’s team.

The club have split the amount of players into a blue and yellow team with the blue team effectively being the A team. My son is in the yellow team which I have no problem with.

The query I have is in relation to the A and B team system. Do you think that results should define football at this age? The A team get first pick of all unregistered players meaning that their squad gets stronger. Effectively their development team would beat the yellows and they’re in the same league.

I’m comfortable with my son playing the full game and learning from that, but the team ar every much a rag tag team like the mighty ducks. They lost 19-0 last week. The coach is a little exasperated at his poor hand, but I wondered whether he should specifically say that his team are for making players better and sod the results. Its for players who can’t get games elsewhere. The only concern is that the parents of the better players move their lads. My dad (who is the epitome of old school) says my son should leave but I don’t want him to. I can see that there’s some grit in the boys that shows up during adversity.

I don’t know. Just thought I’d try and see if anyone has any experiences of this.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 10:14:41 am by richiedouglas »

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,493
  • YNWA
Re: Junior Football - Help.
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 09:26:05 am »
He’s 6, he should be playing for fun at that age and no be worried about goals and results.

Offline richiedouglas

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,116
  • You feed beefburgers to swans!
Re: Junior Football - Help.
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2018, 09:44:29 am »
I agree with that. He loved playing past week irrespective of the score.

The junior team I played in was all about results. Nobody carried on playing after 16 when the team ended as the fun of the game had gone. I don’t want that.

Offline Runehammer

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 630
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 12:19:01 pm »
Unless things have changed since I was a kid (which I seriously doubt), it has always been about results and that's one of the prime reasons we are so far behind every other developed football nation.  Skills don't get developed as it's all about power, pace and stamina.  Always used to be some freakishly large kid that simply ran through defences with kids just bouncing off them.

Trouble is the kids themselves want competitive matches and they really need banning for pre-teens at least.   Short answer, I agree with CraigDS.   

Offline Upinsmoke

  • Is a grump, get used to it.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,196
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 12:32:37 pm »
I don't agree with they way the club you take him to have split the teams. Who's gonna have more fun, the lads in the blue team who manage to get on the ball or the lads in the yellow who can't get on the ball and get battered every week.


The results aren't important at this stage but if you are getting badly beat by them kind of margins then I'd imagine he isn't getting on the ball much and the combination of the two isn't fun.

Also it sounds like he's playing a year above too. I'd try and find him a club his own age if you can mate. If he's having fun then fair enough but that's just my two cents
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 12:34:24 pm by Upinsmoke »

Offline bird_lfc

  • Would much rather have a good wank than get behind the team. Champion of Luke Shaw’s reputation.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,864
  • JFT96
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 12:44:34 pm »
I remember when we were younger, got relegated two years in the trot and was losing  every game. Switched leagues and we were winning games like 17-0.

That can’t be fun for either side to play In. If your lad isn’t having fun, get him moved, but If he’s enjoying it and has made some good friends then there isn’t really any need.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 01:03:35 pm »
So are these kids playing games against outside teams from other towns?
Better looking than Samie.

Offline richiedouglas

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,116
  • You feed beefburgers to swans!
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 02:01:51 pm »
Sorry about the delay. Yeah they’re in a regional league and in the bottom division of that. They only play the blue team a couple of times a season but at the moment both teams train together on a Saturday.

I’m of the mindset that the results aren’t important and I guess that’s the theory behind playing a development game after the ‘real’ game. My only slight frustration is that for as much as we all agree it’s development that matters - to 90% of parents (and coaches) the results are crucial. 

I think that my son is young enough to not really mind get hammered at this point and they’ll start to bridge the gap as the season prolongs. You’re right about player involvement though. If he’s not touching the ball it’s relatively pointless. This scenario is worsened by the A and B system but I’d hoped junior football would have changed over the years.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 02:15:04 pm »
Sorry about the delay. Yeah they’re in a regional league and in the bottom division of that. They only play the blue team a couple of times a season but at the moment both teams train together on a Saturday.

I’m of the mindset that the results aren’t important and I guess that’s the theory behind playing a development game after the ‘real’ game. My only slight frustration is that for as much as we all agree it’s development that matters - to 90% of parents (and coaches) the results are crucial. 

I think that my son is young enough to not really mind get hammered at this point and they’ll start to bridge the gap as the season prolongs. You’re right about player involvement though. If he’s not touching the ball it’s relatively pointless. This scenario is worsened by the A and B system but I’d hoped junior football would have changed over the years.

4-8 year olds don't need to be playing outside teams. If there is an alternative, I'd go and bring him there. From 4-8, they should have a maximum of 2 hours training and game per week, preferably in an Academy format, where all players train together, and then are randomly split up at the weekend to play games against their fellow academy mates, with the games being no more than 40 minutes in total, on 30x20 fields, in a 3v3 or 4v4 format with small pop-up goals. Anything other than that exists purely for the adults and doesn't have the kids' development at it's centre. Any situation where a team of that age is losing or winning 19-0 is shambolic, to say the least. What was the coach of the team winning 19-0 even thinking?
Better looking than Samie.

Offline Sarge

  • Fine with being a Fucker. He's a lovable rouge
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 70,471
  • Boom!
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2018, 02:16:34 pm »
He’s 6, he should be playing for fun at that age and no be worried about goals and results.
Y.N.W.A.

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,493
  • YNWA
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 02:17:42 pm »
What was the coach of the team winning 19-0 even thinking?

“Great result, we showed them 7 year olds.”

Offline Sarge

  • Fine with being a Fucker. He's a lovable rouge
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 70,471
  • Boom!
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 02:18:14 pm »
I agree with that. He loved playing past week irrespective of the score.

The junior team I played in was all about results. Nobody carried on playing after 16 when the team ended as the fun of the game had gone. I don’t want that.

Result driven games at that age will without doubt drive kids away from the game, I was a under age coach and its all about enjoying the game while learning at the same time.

Enough time for more serious stuff let the kids have fun while they can at that age.
Y.N.W.A.

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,839
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2018, 02:28:58 pm »
It should be fun at his age, nothing more.

My lad has been at a club for 2 years now, from just before he was 6. The clubs ethic is that they are all in the same team (there are 40 of them in the U'8s) and that training and playing is to be fun. They do play in the Timperley League about once every 3 weeks, but it is a fun league, no league positions or any of that nonsense, just to give them a bit of experience playing teams from other clubs.

They did enter one tournament last Easter, but didn't realise it was going to be really competitive - that was ridiculous the pressure put on some of the kids of other teams by both coaches and parents.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline afc tukrish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends and undoing their nuts? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,943
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2018, 03:36:19 pm »
They do play in the Timperley League about once every 3 weeks, but it is a fun league, no league positions or any of that nonsense, just to give them a bit of experience playing teams from other clubs.



Quite a good idea at youngest ages, wish we did that more over here.

Every couple of weekends, send the Academy teams to another local club and play a series of games akin to friendlies...

Just the novelty of playing against different players is development stimulus enough...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline richiedouglas

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,116
  • You feed beefburgers to swans!
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2018, 03:49:15 pm »
Thanks for the feedback. There’s a match on Thursday (rearranged from today) and Sunday so I’ll see how they go.

I’ll have a look for alternatives as well. There’s a big catchment area so must be something.

Just out of interest (and my wife asked), what do you think the coach of the other team should have done? The ref let us put another player on (6v5) when it was about 15-0.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2018, 04:25:45 pm »
Thanks for the feedback. There’s a match on Thursday (rearranged from today) and Sunday so I’ll see how they go.

I’ll have a look for alternatives as well. There’s a big catchment area so must be something.

Just out of interest (and my wife asked), what do you think the coach of the other team should have done? The ref let us put another player on (6v5) when it was about 15-0.

15??

It should have been managed once it got to SIX!

How many per side are you playing, and how many are on the squad?
Better looking than Samie.

Offline richiedouglas

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,116
  • You feed beefburgers to swans!
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2018, 06:01:47 pm »
5 a side. We had 7 in our squad and the opposition had over 10 so they changed for the development match. Our team basically all played again but swapping position (my son went in goal for last 10) as someone went off tired.

I think the squad could potentially be expanded quite easily in numbers over the next few week to 10-11 as lots of interest. Going back to previous points it’s likely to be the ones rejected from the ‘A’ team.

It was an away match last week and the pitch must have been 70m long easily (should be 40 i think) . They just played through our lines with quick strikers.

Offline sminp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,819
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2018, 06:11:17 pm »
If your lad isn’t having fun, get him moved, but If he’s enjoying it and has made some good friends then there isn’t really any need.

This all day. If he comes off the pitch with a smile then you should just forget about the score and worrying about him but if he's looking unhappy then get him moved. Chances are you're more bothered than he is but you can only tell by watching his reaction.

With regards to the competitiveness of the games it's football so even if the refs and managers aren't counting the kids probably still are. Besides, a little competition is healthy in my opinion.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 06:13:00 pm by sminp »
My Betfair referal code for anyone who wants it: R6K4MTAQM (You get a £25 free bet)

"Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic."
"It was like playing in a foreign country." Ian Rush on his time with Juventus in Italy
"Don't worry Alan. At least you'll be able to play close to a great team!" Bill Shankly to A

Offline RK7

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,725
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2018, 06:56:31 pm »
Personally I wouldn't put my child in a team with matches at that age but I understand why so many do. I'd be more interested in finding good fun training that teaches the basics well.

But from your point of view I believe as long as he enjoys playing then that's good enough at his age. As he gets older I think it's important. For players to find their level, one that challenges and allows them to improve. Really depends on what you and your son want from the sport though I suppose.

Online Dazzer23

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,131
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2018, 02:07:17 pm »
I ran a kids team from Under 7's through to Under 16's.

We got battered most weeks, but I would say the lads didn't give a monkeys about that up until the age of about 12. At age 6, for them it's just about running around in a kit. As long as your kid is happy, and you'll know you when he is and isn't, just leave him be.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 02:13:44 pm by Dazzer23 »

Offline S

  • pineless. Get no pleasure from seeing the Reds win.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,945
  • Tonight, Tonight
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2018, 02:20:02 pm »
At that age it's simply about having fun. If they're having fun despite getting annihilated then it doesn't really matter.

However, I imagine a few might start to get a bit dispirited. If this unbalanced method of organising the A and B teams turns even one child away from playing football then it has failed. Seems like allowing the B team to sign the unregistered players would solve that.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2018, 05:59:46 pm »
I ran a kids team from Under 7's through to Under 16's.

We got battered most weeks, but I would say the lads didn't give a monkeys about that up until the age of about 12. At age 6, for them it's just about running around in a kit. As long as your kid is happy, and you'll know you when he is and isn't, just leave him be.

In fact, if you have some chocolate bars or other treats at the end of the game, the result and everything that happened in the game is forgotten about in 10 seconds :D
Better looking than Samie.

Offline BrandoLFC

  • Should probably bugger off to Tetiaroa like his namesake did with no access to a telly or the Internet.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,206
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2018, 07:44:01 pm »
Is that typical in the UK to have competitive U8 games?   Honestly this is the first I've ever heard of it.  I coached both my daughters in U8 level for three straight years which is for kids that are 6 and 7 yrs old and learned a lot of lessons along the way.  The biggest of which is emphasizing any part of the result is just a bad thing and any parent that whines about winning or losing at that age are assholes that need to be avoided.

At this age up until 13+ (at least for girls) the most important thing is the social aspect unless you have a wunderkid.  They want to go and play with other kids and make new friends or have more time with their friends.  The actual sporting part of it is typically secondary.  As long as the coach is teaching them the basics of the game, emphasizing actually playing it while practicing and being supportive at all times then that's all that really matters.  You want your kid to enjoy it and want to continue to play.  Standing around doing nothing, having a coach or parents that treat it as anything other than learning by yelling and screaming or not letting them interact with the other kids is a sure way to have them not want to play in the future.

Offline sminp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,819
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2018, 08:15:30 pm »
Brando - Yes it’s very common. I started as a 6 year old in under 8s playing 11-a-side and with full size goals. I’m 29 now and things have changed since then, they play 7-a-side on smaller pitches I think but the league table still exists for most leagues as far as I’m aware.
My Betfair referal code for anyone who wants it: R6K4MTAQM (You get a £25 free bet)

"Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic."
"It was like playing in a foreign country." Ian Rush on his time with Juventus in Italy
"Don't worry Alan. At least you'll be able to play close to a great team!" Bill Shankly to A

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,862
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2018, 08:46:24 pm »
With my eldest we got sucked into the win-at-all-costs nonsense of the manager and it wasn't long before he lost interest in going.  I cringe whenever I think about it and even now, years since, he prefers his non-competitive activities (trampolining and swimming).

We held back on taking his brother to any organised activities for a few more years.  He's ended up playing for a team where the manager is more like a teacher; short and creative training drills (often with no obvious resemblance to 'real' football!) and sporting behaviour put above all else.  They'll likely never win a thing and that might start to become an issue with the kids coming towards secondary school age, but they all get on really well together so hopefully they'll stick with it.

What are the people coaching the kids like?  If they 'get' it then please try to support them, even just a few words of thanks.  I've never gone beyond a bit of occasional volunteering but it seem brutally time-consuming to keep a kids' team just ticking over.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2018, 08:50:14 pm »
With my eldest we got sucked into the win-at-all-costs nonsense of the manager and it wasn't long before he lost interest in going.  I cringe whenever I think about it and even now, years since, he prefers his non-competitive activities (trampolining and swimming).

We held back on taking his brother to any organised activities for a few more years.  He's ended up playing for a team where the manager is more like a teacher; short and creative training drills (often with no obvious resemblance to 'real' football!) and sporting behaviour put above all else.  They'll likely never win a thing and that might start to become an issue with the kids coming towards secondary school age, but they all get on really well together so hopefully they'll stick with it.

What are the people coaching the kids like?  If they 'get' it then please try to support them, even just a few words of thanks.  I've never gone beyond a bit of occasional volunteering but it seem brutally time-consuming to keep a kids' team just ticking over.

I'm interested - please explain.
Better looking than Samie.

Offline Lone Star Red

  • Tex
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,345
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2018, 08:57:17 pm »
I actually asked for advice in the Play Football thread under the Inspire a RAWKite sub-forum a couple weeks about soccer for young kids.

Started coaching my 5 year old nephew's soccer team due to a coaching shortage at the nearby YMCA and I was asking for advice as far as drills/activities in practice due to having never coached at any level before.

A couple of practices and games in, and surrounded by other ongoing games and practices of U8's, I can definitively say that it's not about results and never should be. Scores are kept private and are only used to make sure the score doesn't get run up on another team, everyone plays equally (or as equally as I can keep track of in my head), small fields with pop up goals and the ref is just as much of a help with the kids as I am or the other coaches are.

There's a lot wrong with the American youth soccer system, but they've got the above right.
You cannot call overseas Liverpool supporters glory hunters. We’ve won one trophy this decade. If they’re glory hunters, they’re really bad ones. They’re actually journey hunters. It’s the journey and the story. Something about Liverpool has grabbed them." - Neil Atkinson (May, 2019)

"So don’t think about it – just play football.” - Jurgen Klopp

Offline ericthered10

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,718
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2018, 09:13:07 pm »
A lot of it too is about the coach. If the coach knows what he's doing to an extent and has his focus on development, that's where it's at. The kids spend more time in training than they do playing games, and if the training (can you even call it training at that age) should be about having fun first, maximizing movement and maximizing touches. I think if the coach has his head on straight then you could see your kids' team bridging the gap with the 'A' team over a season or two.

Currently I'm coaching a U12 girls travel team. Our club has a rec program and a travel program, with travel starting at U10. For U10-U12, both boys and girls sides have two teams per age group, which are split equally according to ability as much as possible. That way you have a mix of abilities on each team in training and in games because it is all about development at that age. The league we are in doesn't even start recording game scores and standings until U12. At U13 they move from small fields, goals and 9v9 to full field, goals, 11v11, and with the two teams you have about 20-24 kids (plus anyone trying out from outside the club) trying out for about 18 spots for the next fall.

I like that system a lot, and in general my club's focus on development over results, which is why I've stayed where I'm at for 8 years in favor of going to another club which are more results focused and parent driven. Our club isn't as established as most in the area (we may be the newest actually) but after years of consistently focusing on building and developing at the expense of results, we are now in a position where we can compete on the field with the bigger clubs that have larger catchment areas, more money, better facilities, more name recognition, etc because of the way we've done things.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 09:14:56 pm by ericthered10 »

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2018, 09:15:38 pm »
A lot of it too is about the coach. If the coach knows what he's doing to an extent and has his focus on development, that's where it's at. The kids spend more time in training than they do playing games, and if the training (can you even call it training at that age) should be about having fun first, maximizing movement and maximizing touches. I think if the coach has his head on straight then you could see your kids' team bridging the gap with the 'A' team over a season or two.

Currently I'm coaching a U12 girls travel team. Our club has a rec program and a travel program, with travel starting at U10. For U10-U12, both boys and girls sides have two teams per age group, which are split equally according to ability as much as possible. That way you have a mix of abilities on each team in training and in games because it is all about development at that age. The league we are in doesn't even start recording game scores and standings until U12. At U13 they move from small fields, goals and 9v9 to full field, goals, 11v11, and with the two teams you have about 20-24 kids (plus anyone trying out from outside the club) trying out for about 18 spots for the next fall.

I like that system a lot, and in general my club's focus on development over results, which is why I've stayed where I'm at for 8 years in favor of going to another club which are more results focused and parent driven. Our club isn't as established as most in the area (we may be the newest actually) but after years of consistently focusing on building and developing at the expense of results, we are now in a position where we can compete on the field with the bigger clubs that have larger catchment areas, more money, better facilities, more name recognition, etc because of the way we've done things.

How it should be done!
Better looking than Samie.

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,862
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2018, 10:15:25 pm »
I'm interested - please explain.
I've been lurking on this forum since the Neanderthal days of Hodgson and have really enjoyed your tactical and general football insights (thanks)!  I think you might find some of these a bit old hat or just nonsense but they've stuck in my mind and the kids enjoy them...

3 v 3 no goalkeepers, with all 12 players.  The players are paired in the three-legged-race style with most - too many right-footers - having their stronger leg (loosely!) tethered.

Big games of leapfrog.  Whenever he blows his whistle the two groups swap from "frogs" to "rocks" and the frogs have to try to jump over all the rocks.  Two quick blows and the frogs become fish (crawling/wriggling through legs of rocks), three quick blows and the rocks become sharks who chase etc.

All the kids with their own ball dribbling amongst each other in a circle of cones, the manager walks around the outside making the circle progressively smaller.  If a ball stops moving or goes outside the cones, or they deliberately kick someone else's ball out, then they're out.  Works a lot better than it sounds and usually over quickly so not much hanging around!

Kneeling football.  As it sounds  :o

Tiger/kangaroo tails with bibs.  Have to grab each others bibs that are tucked into top of shorts, either running (tigers) or jumping (kangaroos).

Dice shape.  Kids given a number from 1 to 6.  Manager shouts a number and the 1 and unused numbers (5 and 6 moving out if a 4 is called, for example) have to organise the numbers into the right dot pattern within the coned square.

Ends each session with a mini-game played out against a naff song.  Whenever a particular word is said the kids have to stop whatever they're doing and recreate the technique they've been loosely working on, whether they have the ball or not.  Example, "Fireball" and all the kids had to enact chesting the ball and passing about once a minute in the midst of the game.

He intersperses it with all the standard stuff that in truth makes up the majority of each session; passing drills, dribbling between cones, block tackles, piggy in the middle ball retention etc.  I don't think I've ever seen any heading drills though in nearly two years and I'm a bit old school in thinking all kids should learn the correct heading technique (even if, and hopefully, they rarely need to use it at that age).


Offline BrandoLFC

  • Should probably bugger off to Tetiaroa like his namesake did with no access to a telly or the Internet.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,206
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2018, 10:49:50 pm »
Brando - Yes it’s very common. I started as a 6 year old in under 8s playing 11-a-side and with full size goals. I’m 29 now and things have changed since then, they play 7-a-side on smaller pitches I think but the league table still exists for most leagues as far as I’m aware.

While the US has more youth soccer players than any other nation (at least as far as I'm aware) I thought we lagged behind in coaching moreso than even the UK did.  But upon hearing this you guys have a very fucked up system.  What other country has competitive U8 games? 

Offline ericthered10

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,718
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2018, 10:52:46 pm »
While the US has more youth soccer players than any other nation (at least as far as I'm aware) I thought we lagged behind in coaching moreso than even the UK did.  But upon hearing this you guys have a very fucked up system.  What other country has competitive U8 games?
Even more than that, what do 22 7 year olds on a full size pitch and goals even look like? I'd honestly pay to see that because I have no clue.

Online Dazzer23

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,131
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2018, 11:44:28 pm »
I've been lurking on this forum since the Neanderthal days of Hodgson and have really enjoyed your tactical and general football insights (thanks)!  I think you might find some of these a bit old hat or just nonsense but they've stuck in my mind and the kids enjoy them...

3 v 3 no goalkeepers, with all 12 players.  The players are paired in the three-legged-race style with most - too many right-footers - having their stronger leg (loosely!) tethered.

Big games of leapfrog.  Whenever he blows his whistle the two groups swap from "frogs" to "rocks" and the frogs have to try to jump over all the rocks.  Two quick blows and the frogs become fish (crawling/wriggling through legs of rocks), three quick blows and the rocks become sharks who chase etc.

All the kids with their own ball dribbling amongst each other in a circle of cones, the manager walks around the outside making the circle progressively smaller.  If a ball stops moving or goes outside the cones, or they deliberately kick someone else's ball out, then they're out.  Works a lot better than it sounds and usually over quickly so not much hanging around!

Kneeling football.  As it sounds  :o

Tiger/kangaroo tails with bibs.  Have to grab each others bibs that are tucked into top of shorts, either running (tigers) or jumping (kangaroos).

Dice shape.  Kids given a number from 1 to 6.  Manager shouts a number and the 1 and unused numbers (5 and 6 moving out if a 4 is called, for example) have to organise the numbers into the right dot pattern within the coned square.

Ends each session with a mini-game played out against a naff song.  Whenever a particular word is said the kids have to stop whatever they're doing and recreate the technique they've been loosely working on, whether they have the ball or not.  Example, "Fireball" and all the kids had to enact chesting the ball and passing about once a minute in the midst of the game.

He intersperses it with all the standard stuff that in truth makes up the majority of each session; passing drills, dribbling between cones, block tackles, piggy in the middle ball retention etc.  I don't think I've ever seen any heading drills though in nearly two years and I'm a bit old school in thinking all kids should learn the correct heading technique (even if, and hopefully, they rarely need to use it at that age).

Wow, how can all the kids not love all that?!

I remember one junior team I played for had nowhere to train in midweek. So our training sessions consisted of running around dark country lanes for an hour. (Still the manager took us for a pint afterwards, we were 14. Different times.)

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2018, 01:24:01 am »
I've been lurking on this forum since the Neanderthal days of Hodgson and have really enjoyed your tactical and general football insights (thanks)!  I think you might find some of these a bit old hat or just nonsense but they've stuck in my mind and the kids enjoy them...

3 v 3 no goalkeepers, with all 12 players.  The players are paired in the three-legged-race style with most - too many right-footers - having their stronger leg (loosely!) tethered.

Big games of leapfrog.  Whenever he blows his whistle the two groups swap from "frogs" to "rocks" and the frogs have to try to jump over all the rocks.  Two quick blows and the frogs become fish (crawling/wriggling through legs of rocks), three quick blows and the rocks become sharks who chase etc.

All the kids with their own ball dribbling amongst each other in a circle of cones, the manager walks around the outside making the circle progressively smaller.  If a ball stops moving or goes outside the cones, or they deliberately kick someone else's ball out, then they're out.  Works a lot better than it sounds and usually over quickly so not much hanging around!

Kneeling football.  As it sounds  :o

Tiger/kangaroo tails with bibs.  Have to grab each others bibs that are tucked into top of shorts, either running (tigers) or jumping (kangaroos).

Dice shape.  Kids given a number from 1 to 6.  Manager shouts a number and the 1 and unused numbers (5 and 6 moving out if a 4 is called, for example) have to organise the numbers into the right dot pattern within the coned square.

Ends each session with a mini-game played out against a naff song.  Whenever a particular word is said the kids have to stop whatever they're doing and recreate the technique they've been loosely working on, whether they have the ball or not.  Example, "Fireball" and all the kids had to enact chesting the ball and passing about once a minute in the midst of the game.

He intersperses it with all the standard stuff that in truth makes up the majority of each session; passing drills, dribbling between cones, block tackles, piggy in the middle ball retention etc.  I don't think I've ever seen any heading drills though in nearly two years and I'm a bit old school in thinking all kids should learn the correct heading technique (even if, and hopefully, they rarely need to use it at that age).

What age group? I like the sound of those.

As for heading - there's no "need" for it before Under 12's, and there's a "Cover your arse" element to not heading in the age of concussion awareness, but I think that at least the technique of it should be taught (even if it's banned in games) from 10 onwards, with lighter footballs (Size 3 is perfect) so the neuromuscular adaptation can take place before the big growth spurt. But that's another discussion :D

Better looking than Samie.

Offline leroy

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,152
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2018, 03:38:48 am »
The query I have is in relation to the A and B team system. Do you think that results should define football at this age? The A team get first pick of all unregistered players meaning that their squad gets stronger. Effectively their development team would beat the yellows and they’re in the same league.

I don’t know. Just thought I’d try and see if anyone has any experiences of this.

My family moved when I was a kid and I ended up registering late for football that year (would have been u13's).   Smallish town (in Aus) which only had about 6 clubs I think.  I ended up playing for the local Catholic primary school despite not being enrolled because of the late rego/arrival.  There was one club there who cherry picked the best talent in town and had an a/b team like you describe.  Their A team smashed everyone (I remember being on the end of a 19-nill game actually) and it all just seemed pretty stupid.  I don't think it benefits them to never be challenged in any way.  Not sure it hurts the other kids really as long as the rest of the league is competitive though. If everyone else can get some wins or decent games at least it can be a good character builder to cop a hiding like that probably.

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,862
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2018, 08:44:50 pm »
What age group? I like the sound of those.
Under 11s this season.  They have a few 9-year olds but most 10.

As for heading - there's no "need" for it before Under 12's, and there's a "Cover your arse" element to not heading in the age of concussion awareness, but I think that at least the technique of it should be taught (even if it's banned in games) from 10 onwards, with lighter footballs (Size 3 is perfect) so the neuromuscular adaptation can take place before the big growth spurt. But that's another discussion :D
My concern stems from heading still not having been banned in youth football, despite years of FA/PFA bluster, and watching kids bow their heads such that the ball lands on top with somewhat of a thud.  It seems like at least heading the ball properly is the lesser of two evils although most of my sons' team avoid heading altogether after a bad experience of the ball-to-head-thud so maybe the manager is onto something!

I'm guessing academies are a bit sharper on stamping down on up-and-under football, encouraging short corners etc but park football is generally a bit less refined.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:46:31 pm by thaddeus »

Offline richiedouglas

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,116
  • You feed beefburgers to swans!
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2018, 11:30:59 am »
Good to see the thread still going - interesting article in the Times today which backs up PofP. I've emailed the league to see if they're implementing.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/power-play-and-mini-soccer-how-the-fa-plans-to-create-more-england-players-like-paul-gascoigne-k3c8dqgdg
There was this promising youngster down in the West Country last week, still entranced by the World Cup as he tried to caress the ball with the outside of his right foot à la Luka Modric of Croatia when dissecting England in the semi-final. It was a moment that showed how English football is changing, slowly, for the better.

The boy’s coach, disappointingly unenlightened, instructed him to follow the more orthodox approach, addressing the ball with his instep, until a senior figure from the FA’s coaching firmament, who happened to be watching, stepped in and urged the boy to carry on risk-taking. “Play like Modric,” he said.

Experiment is the message from the FA, enshrined in a recent missive to all of those from Falmouth to Tynemouth guiding the key under-7 to under-10 generation. Be exciting. Be a Gazza. Even a playmaker from two decades ago is one special inspiration. Be a Modric. Even a summer nemesis provides a World Cup dividend for England.

Two months on, Moscow memories flow through the game here, a welcome incoming tide lifting ambitions. The character shown by Gareth Southgate’s players on and off the field in Russia, all those engaging role models giving everything until the final whistle and speaking so humbly after it, inspire so many children. The FA builds on this feelgood factor, emboldening more to play and encouraging more flair, less fear.

Southgate has sent these development coaches an exhortation as succinct as it is significant for England’s future: all children “should be able to try skills and have fun without any pressure”, Southgate argues.


Long involved in player development, Southgate is no fool. He knows England’s flaws full well, especially the shortage of risk-takers and playmakers, the Gazzas as he frequently mentions after games; a shortage highlighted by Modric’s control of the ball and the game in Moscow.

It is why Southgate wholeheartedly backs new FA guidelines for under-7s to under-10s aimed at fostering innovation in possession and free-thinking decision-making. Nobody expects a revolution, even after Russia. Nobody seriously assumes the English game will suddenly be flooded with a gaggle of Gazzas or a million Midlands Modrics but the evolution looks promising. There is more hope now and the FA’s education and coaching departments deserve a hat tip.

Targeting this generation is vital. This period is the one to which Dennis Bergkamp refers as the “golden age of learning”. Good habits and a love of the game uninhibited by any adult hectoring are traits acquired for life, especially important before they enter the more professional, standardised world of academy football. For the 99 per cent who will never be invited under the ropes into the elite domain, they will still enjoy enhanced fun and fitness by these FA stipulations.

The national team’s eventual benefit is of distinct import to the nation. The more boys and girls who fall in love with football, improving health and self-esteem, the more the country will be safeguarded from assorted politicians’ serial, shameful failure to invest in state-school sport with all the obvious social implications for obesity etc.

The instructions dispatched a month ago carry particular weight. “Mini-soccer”, as the FA calls the under-7 to under-10 world, is reshaped by a much-needed “Power Play” option allowing coaches to bring on an extra player if losing by four goals, and a further player if trailing by six goals, thereby making closer any lopsided games of 5 v 5 for under-7s and under-8s, or 7 v 7 for under-9s and under-10s.

The present England team does not possess a playmaker like Paul GascoigneThe present England team does not possess a playmaker like Paul Gascoigne
BOB THOMAS/GETTY IMAGES
“The main aim of the Power Play option is that all players are being challenged and enjoying the game,” the FA says. Challenged and enjoying. Everyone benefits, whether those shivering on the sidelines eager for action via those needing help on the pitch, to those leading who want to be tested more.

A month after the implementation of Power Play, the signs are good. “We can say confidently at this point that anecdotal evidence so far has been positive,” the FA said yesterday. “The FA ran a pilot in Suffolk in the WAYS League [Western Area Youth Soccer] for three years, starting in the 2015-16 season, and the Power Play initiative improved the experience for players on both sides as well as coaches and parents.”

It is optional at present. So why not make Power Play mandatory? It will test the Gazzas and Modrics of the future. It will ensure more of a game and a proper game at that. Power Play has hitherto been perceived as “the mercy rule”, making the situation gladiatorial rather than developmental. Less open-minded grassroots coaches dislike the option as their egos crave 10-0 scorelines. But come on, this is about children and England’s advancement.

The FA needs to make development solely about the player, boosting their experience, so that every child enjoys a more even game and the very best, those who may one day grace Southgate’s radar, are pushed more. At the very least, it will teach them how to deal with overloads.

The FA was yesterday coy on the possibility of compulsory Power Play. “We have empowered the county FA network to promote this through their leagues should they wish and our next steps are to evaluate the impact at the end of this season,” the FA said. This would be a major step, making mini-soccer more competitive and fun in one stroke.

Backed by Southgate, other guidelines kick in. Arguably one of the most important is “the retreat line” whereby one team withdraws to the halfway line when the opposition have a goal kick. This fosters building from the back. No wonder Southgate applauds that.

As the FA deems throw-ins a “difficult technique” to master, retakes are allowed, nurturing the art as well as reducing any child’s embarrassment at a foul throw. The FA also advises referees of the usefulness of explaining decisions in improving youngsters’ understanding of the game. No offside, rolling substitutes and the instruction that every child plays a minimum of 50 per cent of any game day help all round.

Some of the changes were pioneered by the more progressive leagues, like the Respect League in Manchester, and the Stourbridge and District Youth Football League, who regularly post educated match-day edicts on “bringing team-mates into the game” as their under-7s did at the weekend.

Southgate wholeheartedly backs new FA guidelines for coaching under-7s to under-10sSouthgate wholeheartedly backs new FA guidelines for coaching under-7s to under-10s
PAUL THOMAS/PA
Advice to parents is paramount. The FA’s plea via the counties to “let the coaches coach” is a theme echoed by Stourbridge, who had a polite sign on their under-7s’ information board last weekend, urging parents “not to shout ‘shoot’ or ‘pass’ as we are trying to encourage the players to make their own decisions”. That theme again, developing decision-makers. Free from fear.

Amid all this, the FA increasingly promotes futsal which, according to the governors, “has been embedded into the England DNA”. The FA really has moved on from Charles Hughes and Pomo (positions of maximum opportunity). Decision-making and one-on-one skill, eluding opponents, are at the heart of futsal and the FA name-checks the modern greats to woo the under-7s to under-10s further. They are told the story of Lionel Messi: “As a little boy in Argentina, I played futsal on the streets and for my club. It was tremendous fun and really helped me become who I am today.” And Cristiano Ronaldo: “The small playing area helped me improve my close control and whenever I played futsal I felt free.”

The FA and Southgate are hard at work on England’s future. In the shorter term, it is why Southgate closely follows the progress of five youngsters — Mason Mount, Jadon Sancho, Phil Foden, Ryan Sessegnon and James Maddison — all 21 or younger, as potential over the next few years but also focusing on the longer term, on dynamos a decade hence, on finding another Gazza or an English Modric.

Offline thaddeus

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,862
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2018, 10:37:36 pm »
It's hard to disagree with the sentiment, particularly the tail-end about parents not coaching, in the loosest sense of the word, from the side lines.   This bit of the article though, pull the other one...
Quote
The boy’s coach, disappointingly unenlightened, instructed him to follow the more orthodox approach, addressing the ball with his instep, until a senior figure from the FA’s coaching firmament, who happened to be watching, stepped in and urged the boy to carry on risk-taking. “Play like Modric,” he said.


Apologies for going off at a tangent but the media love in of Southgate is getting surreal.

Quote
Long involved in player development, Southgate is no fool. He knows England’s flaws full well, especially the shortage of risk-takers and playmakers, the Gazzas as he frequently mentions after games; a shortage highlighted by Modric’s control of the ball and the game in Moscow.
He took Fabian Delph, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Eric Dier and (I know he's one of our own!) Henderson to the World Cup ahead of Jonjo Shelvey.  Shelvey is hardly Modric but if he wanted a risk taker I'm sure he could have taken a risk himself and dispensed with one of his ball-churning midfield athletes.

Offline richiedouglas

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,116
  • You feed beefburgers to swans!
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2018, 12:40:11 pm »
The good news is that from next season the Power Play rules are compulsory for all leagues at that age group. The bad news is that all leagues had the option to bring it in this season and our particular league voted against it 62% vs 38% despite it having committee endorsement. Why???

For completeness the results so far have gone 19-0, 11-0 and 8-1 so there's improvement at least. All the kids are still having a good time.

Offline afc tukrish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends and undoing their nuts? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,943
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: Junior Football - Advice
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2018, 01:37:58 pm »
The good news is that from next season the Power Play rules are compulsory for all leagues at that age group. The bad news is that all leagues had the option to bring it in this season and our particular league voted against it 62% vs 38% despite it having committee endorsement. Why???

For completeness the results so far have gone 19-0, 11-0 and 8-1 so there's improvement at least. All the kids are still having a good time.

Would guess coaches and parents wanted still to be able to pretend they are genius coaches or progenitors...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...