Topic: Liverpool 0 v WBA 0 ( )

[Clint Eastwood]

On a side note, the standard of refereeing in this league is shocking, yet their performances are never called in to question. Even the media seem to turn a blind eye to them.

[Fruity]

If we're not throwing the kitchen sink at teams late-on, then that's a tactical problem. If we're not able to maintain intensity for 90 minutes, then that is a training problem. If our subs aren't able to change the game, then maybe our squad is not as strong as people think?

I guess it could be any of those. I also wonder if confidence plays a part. During 2008/9 and 2013/14 season there was always a belief we could win a game late on. As far as I remember part of that was because we came from 2-1 down to win 3-2 in virtually our first game of the season in 2008 (against stoke or sunderland???). We then had a couple more games where we nicked it at the end. We may not have played particularly well in those early games but I guess there was a belief we could always turn it around. Same as 2013/14. There was always a confidence one of Suarez or Sturridge would score out of nothing. I think the fans felt it, so I am sure the players did as well.

I would say at 75 minutes in last nights game most on these boards and possibly in the stadium were thinking it's not gonna happen (because it never normally does this season) and I am sure some of our players think the same. They don't seem to believe they can win it at the end.

I guess for me personally, I was actually thinking West Brom were gonna nick it with a counter or set piece but fortunately we seem to have eliminated those sort of losses this season.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

People need to realise that if you've got experience of watching the Reds over quite a few years then thinking we'll draw or thinking we'll struggle isn't negative, it's being realistic.

Many people yesterday thought the same, but sometimes it seems it's a hanging offence to suggest that we won't win 4-0 against a 'shite team'.

I'd love us to win 6-0 or 7-0 every game, but it doesn't happen.

Yes I do think that Klopp made mistakes in the Derby. Yes I think if we'd won then that gives you momentum (Shouldn't but it does) and as a result the performance, the crowd and the team were flat.

Nothing we can do about any of that now. We've got a very tricky away tie, hopefully any kind of win will put us back on track, but I think it's going to be a difficult Christmas/New Year period.

Again. I hope to be proven wrong and I hope we get a barn-storming easy 5-0 win.

[killer-heels]

It will be a difficult Christmas. Arsenal, Burnley and Leicester will be tough games and Swansea wont be easy with the way they can defend.

[Robinred]

We've been quite clinical, for sure. But not against the teams where we had an absurd amount of possession. In those games, we average just over a goal a game. In the remaining games, we average just under 3 goals per game. There seems to be an inverse correlation for us between amount of possession and goals scored, even though shots on target are roughly the same. Is it possible we're getting shots in those games from bad areas (i.e. outside the box, or very wide of the goal)?

I think your statistics in the post referring to this phenomenon are very illuminating.

There is a definite trend, and it’s difficult not to conclude that in a sense, we’ve been “twigged” - dare I say, by the very managers/coaches who receive so much opprobrium on here.

It’s too easy (and I have been as guilty as the next) to put performances and results like yesterday’s down to having an off day. Using data like you and Babu do to identify trends, and then identifying aspects of performance that demonstrate clear patterns, is far more informative than the merry-go-round of blame, scapegoating and indignation that characterises post match threads after a disappointment.

Pardew had done his homework. Klopp and his team will have done theirs. Here’s hoping Eddie Howe is true to his principles and that Bournemouth come out to play.

[Eeyore]

We've been quite clinical, for sure. But not against the teams where we had an absurd amount of possession. In those games, we average just over a goal a game. In the remaining games, we average just under 3 goals per game. There seems to be an inverse correlation for us between amount of possession and goals scored, even though shots on target are roughly the same. Is it possible we're getting shots in those games from bad areas (i.e. outside the box, or very wide of the goal)?

For me it is about us packing the team with confidence finishers and not really having a natural finisher. Last night I think if Firmino buries the first clear chance then two or three of the others go in. A perfect example is Firmino scoring that great goal with the outside of his foot against Spartak, there was no hesitation and bang it was in the back of the net. We were cruising and the goal didn't really matter. Contrast that to a very similar chance away to Southampton th eother year where he snatched at it and it finished 0-0.

We have players who see goals as a nice bonus. One of the best I have seen in a red shirt was Fowler who lived to score goals and could miss a sitter one minute but accept it as part of the job and then score a worldie with his next chance.

As a team when the chances go begging the next one becomes much harder. Our mentality is that it is just one of those nights, to take the next step we need to toughen up and refuse to accept our lot. For me we need players who will demand that we keep to the game plan and demand that we keep on going.

When things aren't going well Coutinho has become the new Gerrard and far too often players leave it up to Phil to try and dig us out of a hole. Players stop making runs and stop demanding the ball. It was nice last night to see Solanke come on and make some great runs and not leave it to our talisman.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Another clean sheet


Good stuff

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[Yorkykopite]

Yes I do think that Klopp made mistakes in the Derby.
Nothing we can do about any of that now.

Keep trying. I know it must sometimes feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall. But I reckon that wall is creaking. A few more passive-aggressive and sulky posts and you might actually get the Everton result changed.

Obviously you'd like us to win every game 5-0 but you don't think that's gonna happen. Did I get that right? 

[lukeb1981]

Teams time wasting need to be punished for it .In the past two home games alone the time wasting was a disgrace and was no where even close to have been added on at the end.It is rampant now in the league especially with the shithouse clubs. Im not talking about taking the ball into the corner in the last few minutes ,it is the time wasting from the first minute . 7-8 minutes could have been added on last night but no 3 minutes then the time wasting in the 3 minutes was not accounted for .It is very frustrating and ruining the game.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Teams time wasting need to be punished for it .In the past two home games alone the time wasting was a disgrace and was no where even close to have been added on at the end.It is rampant now in the league especially with the shithouse clubs. Im not talking about taking the ball into the corner in the last few minutes ,it is the time wasting from the first minute . 7-8 minutes could have been added on last night but no 3 minutes then the time wasting in the 3 minutes was not accounted for .It is very frustrating and ruining the game.

The referee is supposed to take time-wasting into account. But only when it's excessive for normal restarts (goalkicks, throw-ins, etc). Otherwise, they let the game flow.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

The referee is supposed to take time-wasting into account. But only when it's excessive for normal restarts (goalkicks, throw-ins, etc). Otherwise, they let the game flow.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a stipulated time for every event in the game that counts towards the extra time at the end of 45/90 minutes? Like goal and it's subsequent celebrations, 30 seconds. Free kick, 15 seconds. Penalty, 30 seconds. And towards the end of every half, the referee takes into account of the events leading up to the whistle, and points to the "added extra time"?

Of course, time wasting is mostly ignored because a free kick may take up to 30 seconds. Anything beyond that, and he punishes the player. But, by definition, a free kick may take up to 30 seconds. So it is mostly ignored even if it seems like a waste of time.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a stipulated time for every event in the game that counts towards the extra time at the end of 45/90 minutes? Like goal and it's subsequent celebrations, 30 seconds. Free kick, 15 seconds. Penalty, 30 seconds. And towards the end of every half, the referee takes into account of the events leading up to the whistle, and points to the "added extra time"?

Of course, time wasting is mostly ignored because a free kick may take up to 30 seconds. Anything beyond that, and he punishes the player. But, by definition, a free kick may take up to 30 seconds. So it is mostly ignored even if it seems like a waste of time.

Nope. The guideline is 30 seconds, but it's at the discretion of the referee.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Nope. The guideline is 30 seconds, but it's at the discretion of the referee.

I am not sure I remember it like that. Maybe I am wrong about this and that the rules have indeed changed. But this is, well sort of, how I remember it.

https://www.football-bible.com/soccer-info/soccer-stoppage-time.html

The FIFA Laws of the Game states that the an allowance period may be added to make up for lost time due to the following reasons: substitution of players, stoppage of play because of a serious injury, transport of injured players off the field, and deliberate stalling by a team.

Additional minutes may also be added to regulation period to allow a football penalty kick to be taken. An official decides how long a half must extend. 

It is the fourth referee who typically determines how much injury time should be added to a game. Fourth referees  usually have two watches, one which he stops every time there is stoppage in play (such as injuries, substitutes, and goal celebrations) and another one which he runs to count the time spent in each stop. Most league laws require an additional of thirty seconds for each substitution made by both teams.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I am not sure I remember it like that. Maybe I am wrong about this and that the rules have indeed changed. But this is, well sort of, how I remember it.

That's a regional thing. It's not a part of the laws of the game as they are written. Advices to Referees don't mention it either. (Might be an idea for me to go look at the Premier League version of the laws of the game )

[elsewhere]

Is Grujic available? I wonder if he will get some minutes this year or not, i've had high hopes for the kid but it seems like he's forgotten.

[Gerry Attrick]

Is Grujic available? I wonder if he will get some minutes this year or not, i've had high hopes for the kid but it seems like he's forgotten.

It's tough to see how he's going to make it here to be honest. I'm not sure he's athletic or skillful enough to play any of the roles in our midfield. He's some good attributes that'll allow him a decent career though.

[elsewhere]

It's tough to see how he's going to make it here to be honest. I'm not sure he's athletic or skillful enough to play any of the roles in our midfield. He's some good attributes that'll allow him a decent career though.

He was arguably our best player in pre season friendlies 2 years in a row now, i think he deserves a chance if we want to try something different in midfield. Henderson looks far from early last year form, Can seems to avoid contact and concerned to Juventus healthy.

[deadsetred]

The worst thing about yesterday wasnt how we played - thats gonna happen with a tight fixture. It was that we couldn't come away with a hard fought, scrappy 3 points, for the 2nd game in a row. It's those kind of 50/50s that will make the difference between us making top 4 or not.

[na fir dearg]

I dont think there is enough of a fear factor with the lesser teams coming to Anfield, in the Suarez days a lot of these teams were beaten before they went out onto the pitch

Now they come and sit tight, knowing that they have a great chance of nicking points with a set-piece

Solution? Sign better players and we will do

[Suareznumber7]

We are just not good enough to challenge the title, should just focus on top 4 again this season

Anyone that thought we were going to challenge for the title this year was a little deluded.  This year is about cementing top 4 and next year we should be making a challenge for the title. 

[Suareznumber7]

Can someone give me some stats on how we do when we have 60/70+ possession? Feel like we win more games when the possession is fairly even. Whenever the opposition has about 30% possession, we seem to struggle, which is odd.

We don’t move the ball quick enough when we face teams that sit in and defend like WBA did.  We need a midfielder or two who can play much faster against a packed defense. 

[killer-heels]

We don’t move the ball quick enough when we face teams that sit in and defend like WBA did.  We need a midfielder or two who can play much faster against a packed defense. 

Good luck getting Can, Wijnaldum and Coutinho to shift the ball quickly. They hold onto the ball far too long.

We also need Mane and Salah to carry the ball a bit more. We need more players commiting defenders.

[blert596]

Good luck getting Can, Wijnaldum and Coutinho to shift the ball quickly. They hold onto the ball far too long.

We also need Mane and Salah to carry the ball a bit more. We need more players commiting defenders.

I don't think Salah had a successful dribble past a defender on Wednesday. He's certainly not a step over and skip past type of dribbler for me, in so much as getting to the byline. Tricky in close areas and fantastic at running behind or into dangerous areas, but not a typical "winger" if you like.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Good luck getting Can, Wijnaldum and Coutinho to shift the ball quickly. They hold onto the ball far too long.

We also need Mane and Salah to carry the ball a bit more. We need more players commiting defenders.

I think Wijnaldum has proven that he can turn on the ball and get it away quickly. But not often enough and definitely not on Wednesday. We need someone who can do that more regularly. Is Keita that kind of player?

[PhaseOfPlay]

I think Wijnaldum has proven that he can turn on the ball and get it away quickly. But not often enough and definitely not on Wednesday. We need someone who can do that more regularly. Is Keita that kind of player?

He's the keita the whole thing, Willie