Topic: Naby Keita Watch

[MdArshad]

Fixed it for you.

He has not been poor though for 3 season though. The problem was his on/off fitness issue. It seems the medical team have solved the problem as he has been on the bench even before the Madrid game.

[67CherryRed]

He has not been poor though for 3 season though. The problem was his on/off fitness issue. It seems the medical team have solved the problem as he has been on the bench even before the Madrid game.

No, you're right, he's had a few decent moments, but nothing that makes you think he's a £50m player. I just think he's overwhelmed by the size of the club, rabbit in the headlights style.

[thekitkatshuffler]

Amazing how he is written off after 1 poor half. The likes of Firmino and Gini can have 10 poor games in a row and especially in the case of Gini, will still be first choice.

Haven't we sold this prick yet?

[Coolie High]

No, you're right, he's had a few decent moments, but nothing that makes you think he's a £50m player. I just think he's overwhelmed by the size of the club, rabbit in the headlights style.

Not really he’s just had a bad time with injuries, Madrid is the only truly bad game i can remember from him during his time here.

[MonsLibpool]

Not really he’s just had a bad time with injuries, Madrid is the only truly bad game i can remember from him during his time here.

He's been average since he joined. Hasn't lived up to his price tag. Let's cut our losses and try to get someone better.

[farawayred]

Naby plus a bit of cash for Konate wouldn't be the worst idea.

Straight swap for Bissouma.

[farawayred]

He's been average since he joined. Hasn't lived up to his price tag. Let's cut our losses and try to get someone better.

Average is a word that I would never use to describe him, it has no meaning in any context descibin him. It's like the term "average" in statistics, gives you an idea, but has no real meaning. Like in the '70s in the US the average children per family were 2.3, but no one has seen a 0.3 kid (I hope). Naby has been great at times, awful at others, but I can't remember him being average.

[MonsLibpool]

Average is a word that I would never use to describe him, it has no meaning in any context descibin him. It's like the term "average" in statistics, gives you an idea, but has no real meaning. Like in the '70s in the US the average children per family were 2.3, but no one has seen a 0.3 kid (I hope). Naby has been great at times, awful at others, but I can't remember him being average.

"Average" means he's not really stood out.

I'll two simple questions

1. Do you think, based on his 3 years here, he's good enough for us(look at the total package- availability, consistency, turning up for big games, etc.)

2. Can we get another player that may not necessarily be more talented but will be more effective?

[farawayred]

"Average" means he's not really stood out.

I'll two simple questions

1. Do you think, based on his 3 years here, he's good enough for us(look at the total package- availability, consistency, turning up for big games, etc.)

2. Can we get another player that may not necessarily be more talented but will be more effective?

For the first two of his years he's been plagued by recurring injuries, and I put that to his former international coach, that c*nt Put. He almost sngle-handedly destroyed Naby's career. My view. He's been able to recover from that but very slowly, and this season he's been thrown at times in the deep end in a struggling team. Some expected him to be the Savior. Naby needs rhythm, and he won't get it in training, but he won't play because he has no rhythm; catch 22. I'm as frustrated with his showing as most here, but I'd want him to have a normal preseason and judge him on the next. If there is a next.

As for selling him this summer, I don't think there is too much risk to lose team quality at this stage, but there will be a massive financial hit. And the same people who shout "let's cut our losses" would cry for money to buy player X, Y or Z. These things are intricately related. if you have a budget to strengthen the team, again in my view, I would prioritize Gini's replacement, CB, LB, and a striker before I even think of what to do with Naby. We have players like Ox, Divock, maybe Shaq, etc., who need to be moved on before we think what to do with Naby. We are not Abu Dhabi FC to just wave a magic £400m wand at a few players and get it covered for FFP by a sponsored shirt patch logo.

Naby is not our biggest problem. He may be next season, but not now.

[mrantarctica]

"Average" means he's not really stood out.

I'll two simple questions

1. Do you think, based on his 3 years here, he's good enough for us(look at the total package- availability, consistency, turning up for big games, etc.)

2. Can we get another player that may not necessarily be more talented but will be more effective?

Naby hasn't had a great time at LFC. He's been greatly overhyped and hasn't lived up to expectation. There are lots of reasons for that. That being said, he isn't a liability at the club and there is still time for him to turn things around. If he has a solid pre-season and still can't consistently force himself into reckoning for the first team next season, then I agree that we probably need to best be moving him on before too long. There are quite a few other players who I would try to move first e.g. Shaq, Origi etc.

[spider-neil]

I think Naby being here next season can go either way. I thought Klopp was done with players in the past only to see them included for the squad the next season. We'll see what happens.

[PEG2K]

2. Can we get another player that may not necessarily be more talented but will be more effective?

Milner is a great example of a player not more talented but more effective. Yet a team full of Milners is an average team, or, dare I say, mediocre. You need Keita-type player to propel the team.

I think it's clear he's not the type of player who can single-handedly drag a team when it's not performing, like Gerrard or Suarez. But few players can do that anyway. So blaming him on that basis is not fair.

[Djozer]

"Average" means he's not really stood out.

I'll two simple questions

1. Do you think, based on his 3 years here, he's good enough for us(look at the total package- availability, consistency, turning up for big games, etc.)

2. Can we get another player that may not necessarily be more talented but will be more effective?

1. Probably not. But then, if the club think he is over the worst of the injuries - something that we, as fans, can have no clue about - then I think he's shown enough, in his good games, to persevere with.

2. No idea. Most likely, if he'll never get over the injury proneness but then, I refer you to my answer to question 1.

Its a tough one with Naby. He's had some great games, some poor games, and he's been unavailable for long periods. How much can we get for him, how much for a replacement, how is his injury situation going forward, how long's a piece of string? Ultimately, as to whether we 'should' keep him or cut our losses, its way beyond my ken.

[Barrowred]

He only has 2 more seasons left on his deal after this one.
For all the talk of moving him on, even if we could find someone to take a punt on him, which it would be based on his Liverpool career up to now, he may not want to move on.
We have a bit of form for allowing players to run their contracts down.

[pathetic]

For me he's one of those players who mirrors the team's performance. If everyone is playing excellent, he's gonna play excellent. If everyone is rubbish there's a good chance he's the worst of the lot. For me I agree with the sentiment that if I were to choose, I'd rather a less "talented" player ala Milner (very debatable as I think the word we should be using here is flashy). I had very high hopes for Keita but his performances coupled with the injuries have not been enough, irrelevant of the price. What's the point of having a player if you can't trust him in important games? Or in normal games in general? Might as well try a young kid from the academy.

[eeekaj]

Sell whilst he's still worth something

[Dave McCoy]

I think Naby's just the poster child, and deservedly so considering his fee, of what turned out to be an extremely lacking portion of the squad.  Whether you want to call them fringe, rotation or just "squad" players we've gotten very little value considering the extremely large wages being paid and Naby (or Shaq) are the highest paid of that group.  That's not a big deal in seasons like last where the starting XI are all playing at 90%+ of their ability and also minutes.  When they're not though we get seasons like this.  It's understandable to not challenge for the title without VvD, Matip and Gomez.  While we've been extremely unlucky I don't think it's understandable to crater though and a lot of that has to do with the unwillingness or inability to play Naby and the rest.

Aside from that I'm coming around more and more to what Thom Lawrence says is the "Valley of Meh" when it comes to midfielders.  Meaning almost all of their value is in the eye of the beholder.  Measurable actions in both boxes can tell you pretty consistently whether a player is good or bad.  Measurable actions in midfield don't seemingly equate to any change in a teams winning percentage so how can you tell if the player is good or bad?  Basically you just watch and form an opinion but that might be completely devoid from whether it mattered whether the team won or lost.  It's just all kind of "meh".

[johnj147]

Sell whilst he's still worth something

is he worth something?

[smig]

Sell whilst he's still worth something

Hopefully Leicester are daft enough to go for him!

[Fromola]

Sady it's not one poor half, it's a tepid 3 seasons.

Why was he picked at Real then over Thiago if he's that crap?

[Fromola]

For me he's one of those players who mirrors the team's performance. If everyone is playing excellent, he's gonna play excellent. If everyone is rubbish there's a good chance he's the worst of the lot. For me I agree with the sentiment that if I were to choose, I'd rather a less "talented" player ala Milner (very debatable as I think the word we should be using here is flashy). I had very high hopes for Keita but his performances coupled with the injuries have not been enough, irrelevant of the price. What's the point of having a player if you can't trust him in important games? Or in normal games in general? Might as well try a young kid from the academy.

You could very easily be talking about Wijnaldum there.

[CalgarianRed]

Why was he picked at Real then over Thiago if he's that crap?

And how did that turn out? He didn't even last till half time and hasn't played since.

[johnj147]

Why was he picked at Real then over Thiago if he's that crap?

that's what lost us the tie

[Oskar]

that's what lost us the tie

Rubbish.

Everyone was awful that night, Keita has just carried the can for one of our most abject performances as a team under Klopp.

[johnj147]

Rubbish.mmm he hooked of quick enough tho.

Everyone was awful that night, Keita has just carried the can for one of our most abject performances as a team under Klopp.

[mrantarctica]

For me he's one of those players who mirrors the team's performance. If everyone is playing excellent, he's gonna play excellent. If everyone is rubbish there's a good chance he's the worst of the lot. For me I agree with the sentiment that if I were to choose, I'd rather a less "talented" player ala Milner (very debatable as I think the word we should be using here is flashy). I had very high hopes for Keita but his performances coupled with the injuries have not been enough, irrelevant of the price. What's the point of having a player if you can't trust him in important games? Or in normal games in general? Might as well try a young kid from the academy.

To be honest, this could be used to describe so many players. Naby isn't the reason our season has been terrible. It hasn't helped us that numerous players have had very indifferent form, Naby among them but they are only one of the many factors responsible for our crappy season.

We need balance in the squad. In midfield we need a combination of skills in terms of distribution, work rate, tactical nous, aerial ability and goal contribution. We have a few things to work on to even out our midfield at the end of the season, but I think Naby still brings some important qualities to that mix and hopefully we can see him express them on the pitch.

[pathetic]

You could very easily be talking about Wijnaldum there.

Yep mate. Never been his biggest fan I must admit. I'm not at all arsed that he's leaving.

To be honest, this could be used to describe so many players. Naby isn't the reason our season has been terrible. It hasn't helped us that numerous players have had very indifferent form, Naby among them but they are only one of the many factors responsible for our crappy season.

We need balance in the squad. In midfield we need a combination of skills in terms of distribution, work rate, tactical nous, aerial ability and goal contribution. We have a few things to work on to even out our midfield at the end of the season, but I think Naby still brings some important qualities to that mix and hopefully we can see him express them on the pitch.

I agree with you but he blows too hot and cold for me and coupled with the injuries he's had, I would sell if we get a decent offer. He's the type of player you bring on when you're winning 4-0 and he looks great. Not so useful in an actual important match in any shape or form.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Would be amazed if he's here next season in all honesty. The fact that he hasn't even got onto the pitch since being subbed against Real - despite his pressing potentially being useful to help hold onto a lead - speaks volumes.

Best for all parties - particularly his cult-like fan club who continue to live in cloud cuckoo land - if he moves on. With Wijnaldum leaving, we either need to change shape or add some reliability in the engine room, which neither him or Oxlade provide.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I agree with you but he blows too hot and cold for me and coupled with the injuries he's had, I would sell if we get a decent offer. He's the type of player you bring on when you're winning 4-0 and he looks great. Not so useful in an actual important match in any shape or form.

Definitely some truth in that. The midfield Salomon Kalou. His best game for us was probably against Huddersfield Town. A hopeless side who played out from the back. That's pretty much the only game state where Keita is useful.

[G a r y]

particularly his cult-like fan club who continue to live in cloud cuckoo land - if he moves on.

I've never understood it myself.

Biscan had a cult following but at least we agreed he was shite.

[Simplexity]

It does increasingly look like he is off. Klopp does not trust him at all clear as day.

Probably the most disappointing signing ever for me. He had such a huge reputation but alas it seems it will never really work out.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I've never understood it myself.

Biscan had a cult following but at least we agreed he was shite.

I understand it. When you have high expectations of a player who you wait a long time to see wear the Red shirt, you look for things which aren't necessarily there. The modern age of statistics - which Keita seems to thrive from more than any meaningful, tangible output on the pitch - only adds to that.

I'm probably more patient with Thiago than others are for similar reasons. The difference is, though, Thiago has only had one season here in very strange circumstances. Keita has had three, with the benefit of the best defence and attack in Europe behind and ahead of him, yet has failed to ever establish himself. If Thiago is in the same position in a year or two, I won't continue to call for him to start every week or be rewarded with yet another season in the manner some comically do with Keita.

I also think Thiago can really add something to our team in terms of helping beat the block. Keita is a player who we wanted to sign for a manically gegenpressing team in 2017 which, by 2018 or 2019, had evolved and matured in the way it approached most games. If there's one thing I hope the club learns from him, it's never to commit to an expensive player 12 months before signing them (unless we're talking Mbappe levels of talent), because too much can change.

[tubby]

I'm increasingly suspicious that the two number 8 slots in our midfield are where creative and progressive midfielders go to die.  The only midfielders who have really excelled in those positions in our current setup are Henderson, Gini and Milner - all three are hardworking, tactically disciplined and don't offer a huge amount of creativity.

None of Ox, Shaq, Keita, Minamino, Thiago or Jones have fulfilled their potential in our 433 and the manager doesn't appear to be sold on them ahead of any of the other three.  If we switch things up next season and play with a double-pivot, then I'd absolutely keep Keita around because that plays to his strengths more and would keep him central, but if we continue with (what's starting to look like) a disjointed and ineffective 433, then I'm not sure he's the man for it.

[jackh]

mmm he hooked of quick enough tho.

I'd like the think there's far more complexity in the reasoning behind a substitution than what you're implying (which I'm interpreting as 'hooked because he was playing shite' based on my reading of this part of the discussion).

Perhaps the manager felt like the team wasn't performing in the manner or to the level (or both) to which he had hoped & expected, and so he considered the options on the bench & those on the pitch, reflected on the knock on effects of a number of alterations and substitutions he could make, and settled upon that one as the best all-round option for the team?

Or, yes, perhaps it was just a highly-public admonishing of a player who he'd said had been training to a level that he could no longer ignore (for the purposes of team-selection) about 90 minutes beforehand.

[El Lobo]

It does increasingly look like he is off. Klopp does not trust him at all clear as day.

Probably the most disappointing signing ever for me. He had such a huge reputation but alas it seems it will never really work out.

 

We've had much lauded signings who were meant to be the final piece in the jigsaw, and were shite, and we won fuck all whilst they were here. And you think someone who has played a bit-part role in us winning the PL and CL is the most disappointing ever? Find that a bit weird to be honest. Collymore? Kewell? Diouf? Morientes? Aquilani? Fucking hell yeah um...Andy fucking Carroll?!

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I'm increasingly suspicious that the two number 8 slots in our midfield are where creative and progressive midfielders go to die.  The only midfielders who have really excelled in those positions in our current setup are Henderson, Gini and Milner - all three are hardworking, tactically disciplined and don't offer a huge amount of creativity.

None of Ox, Shaq, Keita, Minamino, Thiago or Jones have fulfilled their potential in our 433 and the manager doesn't appear to be sold on them ahead of any of the other three.  If we switch things up next season and play with a double-pivot, then I'd absolutely keep Keita around because that plays to his strengths more and would keep him central, but if we continue with (what's starting to look like) a disjointed and ineffective 433, then I'm not sure he's the man for it.

I'd rather invest time in Thiago and Jones to be honest. Only so many enigmatic midfield options a Jurgen Klopp side can carry.

[aw1991]

We've had much lauded signings who were meant to be the final piece in the jigsaw, and were shite, and we won fuck all whilst they were here. And you think someone who has played a bit-part role in us winning the PL and CL is the most disappointing ever? Find that a bit weird to be honest. Collymore? Kewell? Diouf? Morientes? Aquilani? Fucking hell yeah um...Andy fucking Carroll?!

Has to be Aquilani for me. I genuinely expected the Italian Xabi Alonso.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

We've had much lauded signings who were meant to be the final piece in the jigsaw, and were shite, and we won fuck all whilst they were here. And you think someone who has played a bit-part role in us winning the PL and CL is the most disappointing ever? Find that a bit weird to be honest. Collymore? Kewell? Diouf? Morientes? Aquilani? Fucking hell yeah um...Andy fucking Carroll?!

Yeah it's probably a case of recency bias ... Kewell's debut season and second half of 05/06 was much better than anything Keita has mustered fwiw though

[G a r y]

I'd rather invest time in Thiago and Jones to be honest. Only so many enigmatic midfield options a Jurgen Klopp side can carry.

Yep, i'd even throw Elliot into the mix before him

[G a r y]

We've had much lauded signings who were meant to be the final piece in the jigsaw, and were shite, and we won fuck all whilst they were here. And you think someone who has played a bit-part role in us winning the PL and CL is the most disappointing ever? Find that a bit weird to be honest. Collymore? Kewell? Diouf? Morientes? Aquilani? Fucking hell yeah um...Andy fucking Carroll?!

I'll give you some of them although Collymore and Kewell did alright in their first season, more than Keita has ever done