Topic: The Level 3 Thread

[Yorkykopite]

Amoo was very good as well, he just powers past people.

Yes he does. He'll have to think of other ways of beating a man if he ever gets in the first team though.

[hassinator]

Yes he does. He'll have to think of other ways of beating a man if he ever gets in the first team though.

roger that but he is seriously quick.  i know that's not exactly helped babel set the world alight but i can't help thinking he's developing the way we want him too.  that was a good game last night and its always nice to beat the mancs but particularly when they were really trying to win too.

[Juan Loco]

Yes he does. He'll have to think of other ways of beating a man if he ever gets in the first team though.

Like Aaron Lennon and Ashley Young do?

Amoo is rapid by any standard, not just reserves. Didn't the lad have a serious chance of making a career for himself as a sprinter?

I think it works against him in people's perceptions. He's got a lot more control on the ball that people give him credit for. He can dribble in tight spaces (He did so the weekend against Barnsley) and he hasn't got a slack touch. Ever improving crosser as well. There's a much better footballer there than he gets credit for.

[b_joseph]

One thing never changes in sports. The effects of speed.

Speed will always trouble a defender because a defender never knows when the attacking player will turn on the jets. If you just tell Amoo to maintain the width and then attack the full back, he will get you so many corners and crosses into the box because of that.
The even better thing about him is that his final ball is quite good and he is an absolute beast in the air.

Now, to be world class, he will need something other than pure brute speed. But to be an impact player, his speed will be more than enough.


How about Palsson? 18 years old and I have never seen the guy have a bad game yet. Young Stevie Gerrard right there.
EDIT: Just seen you mention him on the main board, JL. The reason I would compare him to the young Gerrard is because of his no nonsense approach. Young players are not usually like that because they have been patted on the back their whole lives. This guy just rolls up his sleeves and gets on with it.
He is a better prospect than Spearing and that doesnt bode well for Jay.

[scatman]

amoo is super quick but he's still got great ball control at pace, it's a great asset if used correctly (i.e. with a good finishing product).

[hassinator]

i thought this piece from the mirror was interesting in terms of recent comments about our defensive midfielder.

i also thought we'd given him a new contract in the summer but rafa clearly dangling the carrot rather than show him the stick:

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Rafa-Benitez-challenges-Javier-Mascherano-to-earn-a-new-contract-article163687.html

Rafa Benitez challenges Javier Mascherano to earn a new contract

Rafa Benitez has challenged Javier Mascherano to put his troubles behind him and earn a new contract.

The Argentine midfielder seemed keen on a move to Barcelona in the summer, and started the season poorly after being bluntly told he was under contract and was going nowhere by his manager.

That was compounded by problems the 25-year-old has endured as captain of his country, with the team vilified back home after a disastrous run of results has put their World Cup qualification in jeopardy.

He has also suffered with a pelvic injury, and the Reds boss left him on the bench for all but the final two minutes of the midweek Champions' League tie.


His struggles with form and fitness combined with suggestions his family were unsettled in England have led to many Liverpool fans fearing he could depart, especially after the fresh revelation this week from Barca director of football Txiqui Beguiristain that the player remains on the Nou Camp radar.

But Benitez has dismissed the speculation that Mascherano has lost his appetite for Liverpool, after revealing details of a heart-to-heart between the pair, when he challenged the midfielder to repay the faith the English club have shown.

"I had a conversation with him and explained how important it was for him to come to Liverpool," the Anfield manager explained.

"It was a difficult time when he was at West Ham, and I can remember having a meeting with him and he was a little bit low. But as soon as he could see the possibility of coming to a big club like Liverpool he was really pleased...and now he is the captain of Argentina thanks to Liverpool.

"So it was very, very good for him, and he understands it's very, very important for us to have the best from Mascherano if we want to win more games."

Benitez is confident the player will rediscover his best form, and he explained that when he does, he will be rewarded with a new deal.

He has two years left to run on his current contract, and the manager is looking for the Argentine to show his leadership qualities by becoming an even more important player at Anfield.

"I have told the managing director that he is very important to us and we want to keep him, and we will look at his contract when the time is right," Benitez explained.

"He has to play at the level he was before, but he has enough time to do that, and we know he is a key player for us, and will be for a long time.

"There is talk of Barcelona interest still, but top sides are always interested in top players, this is normal. He has a contract and we want to keep him. I told Begiristain before that we wanted to keep him and he knows my opinion."

Mascherano returns to Upton Park today to face the club where he spent a miserable six months in the wilderness back in 2007 before Benitez rescued him, and he could get a starting place after missing Liverpool's last two matches.

Benitez is aware that the player is suffering from the hangover of his country's disappointment during the international break when they lost to Brazil and Paraguay to fall out of the qualifying places in the Sputh American group for the World Cup.

But he expects him to bounce back this weekend. "Javier is the captain so he will be really worried because in Argentina, they live and breathe football, and as the leader there is pressure.

"But he is working hard and is beginning to play well. At the start of the season the team wasn't playing well, not just him, and I am sure he is focused now."

Mascherano could replace Yossi Benayoun to give the Liverpool midfield more steel, but Benitez will otherwise make few changes for the line-up that has won the last two matches.

[josemisuncle]

i thought this piece from the mirror was interesting in terms of recent comments about our defensive midfielder.

The same interview was in the times, with this bit added.

"It’s more the team than just one player. I am watching him in training sessions and he is doing well and working really hard. Yesterday and today he was very good. I was watching him specifically because we were doing some exercises that needed hard work and he was very good in both and today was the same.

Sounds to me like his heads messed up and Benitez is having to "manage" the situation.  Letting him stay in Argentina etc etc

[hassinator]

Sounds to me like his heads messed up and Benitez is having to "manage" the situation.  Letting him stay in Argentina etc etc

yep and while i think we're all pissed off at masch's 'come hither' glances at barca in the summer he strikes me as a footballing pragmatist himself.  he will knuckle down and i think he will get a new deal.  good news if do still want to sell him come the next transfer window.

[BazC]

Our defensive play when not at set pieces, on the whole, was pretty good. Only a lapse by Carra at the start was the main bad point. Even the penalty wasn't bad defending because it wasn't a penatly.

Johnson's speed is a great asset and Skrtel- whilst still a bit too aggressive at times- was very good as well.

The set pieces though. Well people cry 'knee jerk' at you if you bring it up, but it's stopped being a knee jerk reaction 2 years ago. I've thought for a long time that our set piece defending's been measured on a scale of average to shite in general over the last few seasons (3 including this one so far), but today I saw stats to back it up for the first time. Last season, 2/3rds of goals conceded came from set pieces, the season before was 2/5ths and the seasons before that were locked at around 20-30%. This season is 100%.

Our football in open play is actually at a very high level. Set piece defending has let us down.

It's not just the defender's fault because set piece defending is a team affair- they've all been shite at it.

Lucas and Mascherano were top class today- their partnership is really getting on. If Gerrard had been more arsed today and less flat footed, we'd have seen a glimpse of just how good those 3 CMs will be in time- Lucas especially was amazing- knowing when to drop back and get involved in the build up play, and when to take the ball forward into attack and try and link up with Yossi and Gerrard. Brilliant performance. Mascherano- did well in his passing game again. We've heard a lot of "he's no Xabi" this season when it comes to his passing, but in my view he's always been good enough. Some good forward passes today.

Kuyt and Gerrard not in the game as much as you'd like and nor Yossi save for the occasional world class piece of football. Gerrard especially was a bit frustrating to watch for me- bad passes, shite set pieces (again, he shouldn't take them full stop now, today, the first set piece he gets involved with in the box rather than at the passing stage, we score a goal... again), flat footedness and general aura around him which made him look like he couldn't be arsed.

Torres- 2 goals, what else needs to be said?

Good performance from us on the pitch in open play. Same old shite when we're defending set pieces.

I've got the set piece stats in a bit more detail but don't know how to get them up in a table...

[Juan Loco]

Level K3egan football today.

[-Sad Fuck-]

Our defensive play when not at set pieces, on the whole, was pretty good. Only a lapse
Lucas and Mascherano were top class today- their partnership is really getting on. If Gerrard had been more arsed today and less flat footed, we'd have seen a glimpse of just how good those 3 CMs will be in time- Lucas especially was amazing- knowing when to drop back and get involved in the build up play, and when to take the ball forward into attack and try and link up with Yossi and Gerrard. Brilliant performance. Mascherano- did well in his passing game again. We've heard a lot of "he's no Xabi" this season when it comes to his passing, but in my view he's always been good enough. Some good forward passes today.

Agreed. Degs touched on them passing sideways to one another last week, due to them almost being used to letting Xabi play the ball foward, quite happy in the knowledge he was the better passer of the ball. It's nice to see them both sharing the responsibility of doing this now, although I'm not convinced by Mascherano's sixty yarders, they're very speculative.

Still, good to see them play together so well, after watching them against Spurs and Villa, it was very concerning.

[dgoh]

Vast improvement from Torres today, and it's not just about the goals. Done everything what HBHR said he should be doing, awareness and linking play was excellent.

[b_joseph]

Mascherano proved today that he can do the job against teams that only want the draw. He pressed, he tackled, he shifted the ball..I thought he was vintage today and it came at the perfect time.
He doesnt look very happy mind, everything he does he has a scowl on his face but what the hey.

Skrtel and Carra...the less said about them the better. Carra was slow and is getting slower, Skrtel was too aggressive and is getting even more aggressive.
If Agger wasnt such a sicknote, we'd be ok but he looks like he will be a sicknote for his days now.

We still look disjointed a little bit as a team but we are getting there.

[killer-heels]

I am already wetting myself over the corner and free kicks Chelsea will get against us.

[Yorkykopite]

I am already wetting myself over the corner and free kicks Chelsea will get against us.

I wish you wouldn't put it like that killer.

[Juan Loco]

I am already wetting myself over the corner and free kicks Chelsea will get against us.

Pics?

[royhendo]

LOL now now... but really - pics?

[Degs]

This will sound soft as we weren't that great but today we showed the "green shoots" (ugh, I want to fucking kill myself now) that will flourish at the end of the season.

Great fluidity, brilliant performances from Masch and Lucas - it doesn't sound like much but seeing them BOTH pass the ball forward, lob it over to Torres (the lad has pace ot burn use it) they took turns to piece at going forward, and the 2 games dropped further back has given Gerrard a nice little reminder of why he has to drop back and help out, and while he was sloppy he still had great movement.

Seeing Benayoun, Kuyt, Gerrard, Lucas, Masch and later Babel all switching positions with each other shows you that we're not a team struggling to replace Xabi Alonso we're a team in transition, once the players become aware of each others movement it will be neigh on impossible to mark our players as once you track one the other one will fill in.

I was stood in the front row of the Kop on Wednesday night though and I hate to be the one to say it but we don't man mark, and even worse we don't zonally mark. We turn up in the area and that's about it.  I had Glen Johnson about 3 feet in front of me pointing at a free player.  Not moving to mark him, not telling somebody else to, simply pointing - as if to say there's the man you want to pick out.
I felt like crying, I'm not going to moan about zonal marking anymore because we're not doing it, the players don't know their "zones", they mill about hoping the ball doesn't come to them.

It's the only thing letting us down now, 10 goals this season from set pieces, if we can sort that out we'll be fine. The players are slowly coming to terms with each others movement and you can see when it all clicks we're going to destroy. If it wasn't for the 2 we conceeded we'd be calling the performance Level 3.  Now imagine Danny Agger back and the unknown quantity that is Aquilani.

This has potential.

[Rafas3leggedtable]

This will sound soft as we weren't that great but today we showed the "green shoots" (ugh, I want to fucking kill myself now) that will flourish at the end of the season.

Great fluidity, brilliant performances from Masch and Lucas - it doesn't sound like much but seeing them BOTH pass the ball forward, lob it over to Torres (the lad has pace ot burn use it) they took turns to piece at going forward, and the 2 games dropped further back has given Gerrard a nice little reminder of why he has to drop back and help out, and while he was sloppy he still had great movement.

Seeing Benayoun, Kuyt, Gerrard, Lucas, Masch and later Babel all switching positions with each other shows you that we're not a team struggling to replace Xabi Alonso we're a team in transition, once the players become aware of each others movement it will be neigh on impossible to mark our players as once you track one the other one will fill in.

I was stood in the front row of the Kop on Wednesday night though and I hate to be the one to say it but we don't man mark, and even worse we don't zonally mark. We turn up in the area and that's about it.  I had Glen Johnson about 3 feet in front of me pointing at a free player.  Not moving to mark him, not telling somebody else to, simply pointing - as if to say there's the man you want to pick out.
I felt like crying, I'm not going to moan about zonal marking anymore because we're not doing it, the players don't know their "zones", they mill about hoping the ball doesn't come to them.

It's the only thing letting us down now, 10 goals this season from set pieces, if we can sort that out we'll be fine. The players are slowly coming to terms with each others movement and you can see when it all clicks we're going to destroy. If it wasn't for the 2 we conceeded we'd be calling the performance Level 3.  Now imagine Danny Agger back and the unknown quantity that is Aquilani.

This has potential.

top analysis there degs.

We gave to assume that Rafa (via his assistants) see this too (and work on it).

We are though, as you say, on the verge (we are already a fucking top side) of a been a brilliant side. The options we have (we dont know what formation is coming - the media dont know - the opposition dont know) as you say are scary.

[Degs]

top analysis there degs.

We gave to assume that Rafa (via his assistants) see this too (and work on it).

We are though, as you say, on the verge (we are already a fucking top side) of a been a brilliant side. The options we have (we dont know what formation is coming - the media dont know - the opposition dont know) as you say are scary.

The thing is if you want to know the kind of thing we're working towards watch Barcelona, 4 goals in the first half tonight the 4th coming from defensive midfielder Keita - a tap in, the first coming from a killer pass from Busquets.
A thing of beauty.

[BazC]

This will sound soft as we weren't that great but today we showed the "green shoots" (ugh, I want to fucking kill myself now) that will flourish at the end of the season.

Great fluidity, brilliant performances from Masch and Lucas - it doesn't sound like much but seeing them BOTH pass the ball forward, lob it over to Torres (the lad has pace ot burn use it) they took turns to piece at going forward, and the 2 games dropped further back has given Gerrard a nice little reminder of why he has to drop back and help out, and while he was sloppy he still had great movement.

Seeing Benayoun, Kuyt, Gerrard, Lucas, Masch and later Babel all switching positions with each other shows you that we're not a team struggling to replace Xabi Alonso we're a team in transition, once the players become aware of each others movement it will be neigh on impossible to mark our players as once you track one the other one will fill in.

I was stood in the front row of the Kop on Wednesday night though and I hate to be the one to say it but we don't man mark, and even worse we don't zonally mark. We turn up in the area and that's about it.  I had Glen Johnson about 3 feet in front of me pointing at a free player.  Not moving to mark him, not telling somebody else to, simply pointing - as if to say there's the man you want to pick out.
I felt like crying, I'm not going to moan about zonal marking anymore because we're not doing it, the players don't know their "zones", they mill about hoping the ball doesn't come to them.

It's the only thing letting us down now, 10 goals this season from set pieces, if we can sort that out we'll be fine. The players are slowly coming to terms with each others movement and you can see when it all clicks we're going to destroy. If it wasn't for the 2 we conceeded we'd be calling the performance Level 3.  Now imagine Danny Agger back and the unknown quantity that is Aquilani.

This has potential.

I think the lack of ability defending set pieces has masked the football we look like we can play. In another thread earlier, I said the control Lucas and Masch had of midfield reminded me of the control Xabi and Masch would have. They're growing into it. I saw Yossi drop deep and try and create. Gerrard the same (although he was the most frustrating player on the pitch to watch I thought- an on form Gerrard and we'd have stuck 4-5 goals past these).

It's not far off. We just need to tighten up the defensive side of things and hopefully the attacking football keeps progressing like it is- we've scored what, 16 goals this season in the league? That has to be right up there... unfortunately, it's the goals against column where we have the problem.

Oh, and this is from a team whose 2 main men in attack haven't hit their top form and the top attacking signing hasn't even set foot on a football pitch yet.

It's definitely looking good for the future, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

[Ecuared]

I thought this quote from Rafa during the post match interview was very interesting.

“My concern is if we can improve, if we can defend as a team well, if we cannot make mistakes and we can continue scoring goals. When you talk about individual mistakes you know it is easier to find a solution. So Carra knows, Skrtel knows and we know that is just a question to be focused. We can do it, no problem. But if we cannot then I will say to Torres he has to score more goals.”

I didn´t actually hear this so not sure how serious or tongue in cheek Rafa was being, but this really stood out to me. This is the first time I can ever remember Benítez saying something like this, and it obviously reflects the confidence he has in the lads to win an open, free-scoring game. One of the dominating characteristics that Rafa has always had is his obsession with controlling games. I think Rafa has realised that, especially in England, sometimes you can´t control the game the way you´d like, but if you have the bigger guns and use them you will almost always win.

If we can sort out our problems at the back we will be virtually unplayable, such is our attacking ability at the moment. Maybe Rafa has neglected the defensive side of things and is more focused on our possession play? Our movement is so much better, and different then it was for most of last year and years previous I imagine a lot of training time must go into it. I can´t believe that it´s all just improvisation.

We will get the defending basics sorted out, but we must do it sooner rather than later. A loss to Chelsea in two weeks would put us in a very precarious postion to say the least.

[Slave]

I was impressed with Poulson, He is no frills but so effective and a vital part of the team now I think.

It's not Poulson.

His name is Victor Palsson.

[RotoruaRed]

Long time admirer of this thread and all the thought and hard work put into it make it a great read.

Today I felt our attack, pressing and possession football reached the level 3 oft discussed. The defence was a little out to lunch and the less said the better really. But I do want to touch on a few pointers I feel are pertinent in our style of play.

Today I felt we never missed Xabi.

The movement especially I felt in the 2nd half in and around the Hammers final 3rd was as good as I think i have ever seen. To play this level 3 possession football is extremely demanding physically, technically and mentally. But some of the short passing , movement and touches were a joy. Little wall passes , give and go's, switching of positions and general movement Superb stuff.

However I want to mention the build up to the 2nd goal and the various aspects of it that I think bode well for us and will have other teams sweating somewhat. The ball was cleared into the midfield by the WHU defence. Immediately he received the ball (Parker I think) he had Lucas and Masch all over him like a rash pressing and pressuring him. He give a short pass inside to the winger who then had Johnson all over him (in fact I thought Johnson had a terrific 2nd half defensively in shutting down the winger who in the 1st half had free reign). Johnson powered through to have a shot blocked, as the ball was being collected Torres had found some movement and space in the area and was screaming for the cross that was duly delivered. Great goal. But what made it a great goal was the pressing for the ball in such a strong manner. The preceding 74 minutes had seen us run them ragged. Sure they were in the game but not seriously competing.

In fact it was that goal and all the good work that had me thinking how we always seem likely to score and tear teams apart now with goals coming from many players not just 1 or 2. 2 weeks ago Stevie lifted us to beat Bolton, Yossi did it v Burnley and today Nando. And Dirk scoring 2 so all bodes well.

To play that level of football takes a few things, application, fitness, mental strength, technical ability. All of those aspects showed up today but especially in the build up to that goal. All the players mentioned in the build up showed the willingness to do what was required and the goal was a much a credit to them as it was to Babel ( who deserves the praise he is earning today).

I said that today was the 1st time I felt we got over Xab and moved forward and that is great news. The centre midfield of Masch and Lucas was great , Lucas I read somewhere completed 61 of 64 passes and was superb in setting the tempo. If Aquilani is as good as we are led to believe then Rafa will have a hell of a conundrum. Best everybody stays fit and well. You do t want to get injured in this team now as its going places. A quartet of Masch, Lucas and Aquilani is going to take some handling along with Gerrard.

Anyway continue with the good posts it is very informative and instructive and thanks to Roy H for starting it off. Somewhat better reading than some of the other drivel around.

[hassinator]

i agree with all of this rotorua.  our midfield was boss just our creaky looking centrebacks looking a bit off the pace.  for all west ham's ability to bounce back i felt they were riding their luck a little bit and from the start of the second half we looked fully in control with johnson absolutely shutting down their supply from the flanks in a great defensive performance.

we have our supposed three best passers still to take a bow this season and yet we're really starting to buzz.  if we can keep going like this we won't look back but there will be tougher challenges ahead than west ham and it will be interesting to see who comes out on top in today's derby - there's a chance for a lot of points to be dropped so fingers crossed.

[EroticTangerines]

I already posted this in the post-match thread, but it warrants another mention:  stop saying that it wasn't a penalty.  You are not allowed to push a player in the back.  If you do it in the box, then it will be a penalty.  It doesn't matter that it isn't called all the time; that is more down to the woeful state of officiating than some sort of inherent toughness of the English league.

[redmark]

I already posted this in the post-match thread, but it warrants another mention:  stop saying that it wasn't a penalty.  You are not allowed to push a player in the back.  If you do it in the box, then it will be a penalty.  It doesn't matter that it isn't called all the time; that is more down to the woeful state of officiating than some sort of inherent toughness of the English league.

I think Carragher meant to 'lean' on him, but surprised by the lad's pace, he was half past him and the 'lean' ended up being a shove in the back. Carragher relies too much on contact inside the box and will get penalised for it sometimes. I agree it was a penalty.

To disagree a bit with a few posters, I was a little (only a little) disappointed with Lucas yesterday. Yes he was tidy and solid defensively, but seemed to go back into his shell a little offensively, compared to the last couple of games alongside Gerrard. Does the young Brazilian defer a little to the Argentinian captain? It has been discussed about how Lucas is at the stage now where he should be starting to really boss the odd game on the ball, and West Ham (allowing plenty of time on the ball) was an opportunity.

[abhred]

It has been discussed about how Lucas is at the stage now where he should be starting to really boss the odd game on the ball, and West Ham (allowing plenty of time on the ball) was an opportunity.

He's 22, you don't really expect him to boss games.

[Degs]

To disagree a bit with a few posters, I was a little (only a little) disappointed with Lucas yesterday. Yes he was tidy and solid defensively, but seemed to go back into his shell a little offensively, compared to the last couple of games alongside Gerrard. Does the young Brazilian defer a little to the Argentinian captain? It has been discussed about how Lucas is at the stage now where he should be starting to really boss the odd game on the ball, and West Ham (allowing plenty of time on the ball) was an opportunity.

I think it's splitting hairs really he had a good game in the middle and was better than the likes of Noble and Parker against him.

His job now suits his style more, when we had Xabi he would pass the ball out wide with those 40 yard passes, now without him we need the short sideways movement of Masch and Lucas, the fact it's happening about 15 yards further forward than it used to is what's made the improvement from the start of the season.  They're also trying to play forward balls now they're a bit closer to the front.

Ideally what we'd want is for Lucas to be able to run into the box and tap in the ball once Benayoun has ripped them on the wing.
We're not there yet.

These are:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/k-HtXHM-e70&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/k-HtXHM-e70&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>

[Yorkykopite]

Ideally what we'd want is for Lucas to be able to run into the box and tap in the ball once Benayoun has ripped them on the wing.

And ideally we'd like to play against such an inept defence as that one every week.

[redmark]

He's 22, you don't really expect him to boss games.

And at what age do you expect it? We've all seen the best midfielders show that ability with the odd dominant game from a relatively young age. My point isn't that he should have bossed this game, but that he seemed to go back into his shell a little after showing good progress in recent games. Not a big criticism, just an observation that he seemed a little withdrawn compared to the last couple of games alongside Gerrard.

[No666]

My stream kept going down on Saturday, but I got the impression Insua and Johnson did not stick to their flanks and were quite frequently to be found in central positions. Was this a true impression?

[Yorkykopite]

My stream kept going down on Saturday, but I got the impression Insua and Johnson did not stick to their flanks and were quite frequently to be found in central positions. Was this a true impression?

This happened a few times with both players. Insua is an exciting player. His perfectly timed intervention and swift counterattack to set up Torres for the first was everything you want in a defender.

[Gerry Sweeney]

Just a thought after watching the weekends games - are chelsea where we want to be?
They seem to be steamrolling past teams like we showed signs of doing last year. Seem to have a similar set up to us with the attacking full backs, holding midfielder and fat frank playing further forward.

[hassinator]

Just a thought after watching the weekends games - are chelsea where we want to be?
They seem to be steamrolling past teams like we showed signs of doing last year. Seem to have a similar set up to us with the attacking full backs, holding midfielder and fat frank playing further forward.

they've also got essien and drogba fit from the off.  they're looking very impressive.  i was hoping for some sort of hiccup when ancellotti came on board but he's got them purring straight away.

very much enjoyed the manc game and though it would have been better ending in a draw i just knew that little shit was going to score.  still city bossed united for long periods and while their goals came from mistakes they did well away from home with a lot of players injured.

they are definitely going to be a team to beat this year.

[socrates the sophist]

My thoughts on the weekend are similar to you lads:
Arsenal: despite losing twice seem set to be back their best dominating teams and scoring from all over the pitch if Van Persie starts getting his act together and connect with the ball for once they will be even better.
Man utd: They continue doing what they do best which is grinding out wins, it will be interesting to see how they fair against us and chelsea; because if you take giggs or scholes out of the game, there are absolutely no creative force and Rooney will become isolated...just a thought. As for Man City I was really impressed with them; they gave Manu a run for their money and were deserving of a point, and that is without Adebayor, Robinho and an unfit Tevez. City could rip United apart for their home game and I can't wait fr the 2nd Manchester derby.
Chelsea I think they are overrated. They were playing against easy teams yet struggled to beat Hull and Stoke. and there are many ways to counter their attacking full-backs, one is to show the full backs on their inside foot, the other is to pin them back using the wingers. a game against a team like Villa and Liverpool will truly show what Chelsea is capable of.
Liverpool All in all a good win, but there is a very important lesson to learn from this game; in earlier games teams have been trying to beat us by putting pressure on our CBs, Westham have added another weapon to the equation which is using the space left by our full backs. Our most successful attacking aspect this season was our attacking full backs. However Zola assigned Hines t play on the left so he can use the space left by Johnson. little by little, Johnson started to retreat and we lost some of our bite in attack while West started to dominate. I was thinking "how will Rafa counter that? will he add another CB to free the FBs from defensive duty?"
That seemed the only possible solution when Rafa outclassed me by introducing Babel. Since Hines was sort of high up the pitch, that meant that Babel will be 1v1 with Illunga, which not only allowed Babel to create our third goal...It also meant that hines would have to retreat to aid Illunga: 1)Giving Glen the chance to advance once again. 2)making Westham counters go through Cole who was double and sometimes triple-teamed by Masch, lucas and another CB.
and In that way Rafa has regained the control for his team an won them the game (with the aid of his players of course)
What a master technician!
 

[hassinator]

My thoughts on the weekend are similar to you lads:
Arsenal: despite losing twice seem set to be back their best dominating teams and scoring from all over the pitch if Van Persie starts getting his act together and connect with the ball for once they will be even better.
Man utd: They continue doing what they do best which is grinding out wins, it will be interesting to see how they fair against us and chelsea; because if you take giggs or scholes out of the game, there are absolutely no creative force and Rooney will become isolated...just a thought. As for Man City I was really impressed with them; they gave Manu a run for their money and were deserving of a point, and that is without Adebayor, Robinho and an unfit Tevez. City could rip United apart for their home game and I can't wait fr the 2nd Manchester derby.
Chelsea I think they are overrated. They were playing against easy teams yet struggled to beat Hull and Stoke. and there are many ways to counter their attacking full-backs, one is to show the full backs on their inside foot, the other is to pin them back using the wingers. a game against a team like Villa and Liverpool will truly show what Chelsea is capable of.
Liverpool All in all a good win, but there is a very important lesson to learn from this game; in earlier games teams have been trying to beat us by putting pressure on our CBs, Westham have added another weapon to the equation which is using the space left by our full backs. Our most successful attacking aspect this season was our attacking full backs. However Zola assigned Hines t play on the left so he can use the space left by Johnson. little by little, Johnson started to retreat and we lost some of our bite in attack while West started to dominate. I was thinking "how will Rafa counter that? will he add another CB to free the FBs from defensive duty?"
That seemed the only possible solution when Rafa outclassed me by introducing Babel. Since Hines was sort of high up the pitch, that meant that Babel will be 1v1 with Illunga, which not only allowed Babel to create our third goal...It also meant that hines would have to retreat to aid Illunga: 1)Giving Glen the chance to advance once again. 2)making Westham counters go through Cole who was double and sometimes triple-teamed by Masch, lucas and another CB.
and In that way Rafa has regained the control for his team an won them the game (with the aid of his players of course)
What a master technician!
 

yep rafa played a blinder in the second half.

not sure i fully agree about chelsea.  they look very good to me, have no injuries and a settled squad.  i think they will be the team to beat this year as if the mancs lose rooney i think they will be in real trouble.

it will be very interesting to see how the press react to their 'lack of squad depth'

[abhred]

Yeh, Chelsea look brilliant. Shown they can batter teams, but also grind out results, and make comebacks.

Ancelotti's a world class manager to be fair. One of the best there is. Liverpool-Chelsea would be a great game, two master tacticians at work.

[scatman]

I've not yet watched the game, unfortunately missed it on Saturday and have refused to watch highlights as I've downloaded a HD version. Saw around 20 minutes up to the Torres goal. Great goal from our kid Nando. Noticed Lucas further up the pitch and Gerrard deeper. Also saw Lucas pick out some brilliant forward passes likewise Mascherano, will give a better analysis after I've seen the whole lot.

[socrates the sophist]

I've not yet watched the game, unfortunately missed it on Saturday and have refused to watch highlights as I've downloaded a HD version. Saw around 20 minutes up to the Torres goal. Great goal from our kid Nando. Noticed Lucas further up the pitch and Gerrard deeper. Also saw Lucas pick out some brilliant forward passes likewise Mascherano, will give a better analysis after I've seen the whole lot.

yeah, that will change and lucas will drop deeper as soon as we score. I don't know why did that, probably to defend our lead and start playing counter attack, but that backfire and we lost control of the game. It was one of the few surprises that Gerard did not frop deeper when they equalised