Topic: The Level 3 Thread

[hesbighesred]

The problem for me is that it seems that people attribute our loss to our inability to attack rather than our inability to defend. This is a game that Man united would have won 1-0, we lost it 1-3. We shouldn't have conceded any of the 3 goals. Granted our (offensive) tweak-away from our stoke city game backfired. So now all that Rafa has to do is to allow Yossi, Stevie and Kuyt the freedom they had against Stoke while trying to sort out our set piece defending. We have conceded 5 goals so far, none came from open play.

Yup, good shout. That's been doing my head in for ages, and I think it's a big problem in our attack too - I think the team is also affected by the general stereotype of ourselves and so gets in a bad head space FAR too easily if a goal isn't immediately fothcoming, wheras our defence has been making those kinds of mistakes far more than they used to for 2 seasons now, and still don't seem to have quite woken up to it.

Last nights defeat was clearly down to defensive mistakes at crucial times, but once again it's been chalked up to our attacking failures - just like Wigan and Everton were last season, where again it was the defence let us down.

[abhred]

We are no where near as good as Chelsea, or United defensively. I think our defense is a weakness. Defense is just so much more than crunching tackles, or tracking back. It's about awareness, and reading of the game, and about the whole team trying to keep the pressure of the defense by maintaining possession.

Watch Milan (and especially Nesta) against Siena. Defensive masterpiece.

All good trying to play Level 3 attacking football, but the defense should be the same. And Agger seems to be the only one to have a level of reading of the gaming that is needed. Skrtel and Carragher are both very, very rash.

[Degs]

We are no where near as good as Chelsea, or United defensively. I think our defense is a weakness. Defense is just so much more than crunching tackles, or tracking back. It's about awareness, and reading of the game, and about the whole team trying to keep the pressure of the defense by maintaining possession.

Watch Milan (and especially Nesta) against Siena. Defensive masterpiece.

All good trying to play Level 3 attacking football, but the defense should be the same. And Agger seems to be the only one to have a level of reading of the gaming that is needed. Skrtel and Carragher are both very, very rash.

I don't agree.

I thought Carragher was our best player and considering this season we've played a centre half with stitches in his head, a centre half with neigh on a broken jaw, and a 19 year old kid I think the defence has managed to do as well as it could.  Remember we haven't conceded from open play yet, every goal coming from a set piece.

They've done well especially considering the full backs around them in Johnson and Insua.

The blame falls squarely on those in front of the centre mids, Lucas looks redundant, Benayoun and Kuyt have only one style of play (come inside), and when Gerrard and Torres are off we don't score. The problem is that our players aren't good enough, because we don;t have the money to go out and buy David Silva, Lavezzi, etc. Sad but true.

If Gerrard buried that chance he had from 1 yard out the result would have been different I'm sure of it, I can't see how you can blame the defence for a goal coneceded from a free-kick and scored by our centre midfielder, a corner conceded from because of our centre forward, and a penalty conceded by our rash makeshift central midfielder.

[abhred]

Not talking about goals, and not talking about just last night. There have been errors that have creeped into our defense, that were never there a couple of seasons back. Remember Rafa's second season? What was it, 12 clean sheets in a row?

Our defense is nowhere near as efficient as it was now. We've become much more rash, giving much more fouls away. And regardless of who gives the fouls away, it's the defense's job to clean up the mess before. The Gerrard penalty, where was our defense. Villa out passed us on that occasion, and Reo Coker managed to make a run into the box.

Don't understand the width thing. At times we want our wide players to cut inside, and allow the full backs to bomb forward. Othertimes we want them to stay out wide, and provide width, but then we moan about how isolated Torres is.

The simple fact is, in most seasons, the team with the best defensive record wins the league. That's how United win it. They churn out one 1-0 result after another.

[Degs]

Not talking about goals, and not talking about just last night. There have been errors that have creeped into our defense, that were never there a couple of seasons back. Remember Rafa's second season? What was it, 12 clean sheets in a row?

Yes but when we were keeping clean sheets what was the cry "Rafa too defensive, more concerned with clean sheets, 9 men behind the ball". We finished 2005-2006 in 3rd, with a goal difference behind Man United by 18 goals, we scored 14 goals fewer than both Chelsea and Manchester United and 11 fewer than Arsenal.

If we had achieved the same points total last year as we did in 2005-2006 we would have finished behind Chelsea.

For me it's too simple to say we were good back then so we should be good now. 
Since then we've changed our style of playt out of neccessity and take more chances going forward and not leaving as many men back as our 9 man defence of the 2005-2006 season.

In fact last season we conceded only 2 more goals than in the 2005-2006 season while managing to score 20 more.

So no I'm not agreed with you there

Our defense is nowhere near as efficient as it was now. We've become much more rash, giving much more fouls away.

Well hopefully the stat above dispels the idea that our defence is a shadow of it's former self (again only 2 more conceded in the entire season)  in fact here's our progression.

Season     For      Against     Difference
04-05       52          41            +11
05-06       57          25            +32
06-07       57          27            +30
07-08       67          28            +39
08-09       77          27            +50

So no I wholeheartedly disagree when you say our defence is "nowhere near as efficient" as it was in 2005-2006 as they've only ever conceded 3 more goals in a season, and the other 2 times since that season have only conceded 2 more, yet our goal difference has managed to improve by 18 goals.  Down in no small part to the freedom being offered in front of the defence (in turn putting more burden on them).

Oh and as for us conceding "much more fouls" I'd like to see the stats on that because in 2005/2006 we had no less than 5 red cards and 50 yellow cards in the league, while last season we had the same numbe rof yellow cards with 0 red cards.

And regardless of who gives the fouls away, it's the defense's job to clean up the mess before. The Gerrard penalty, where was our defense. Villa out passed us on that occasion, and Reo Coker managed to make a run into the box.

This is madly nonsensical, "regardless of who gives the foul away".  Sorry...so if a central midfielder gives away a free kick (like last night) it is the defence's fault because they haven't "cleaned up the mess before"?  You want Carra and Skrtel running past Maschernao and Lucas to make the tackle on the halfway line? As for the Gerrard penalty the defence was behind him, all he had to do was stay on his feet.  The defence was teacking back from the edge of the box, Carragher and Skrtel were probably our best attacker sin the last 10 minutes of the match, not to mention Insua and Johnson throughout.   

Don't understand the width thing. At times we want our wide players to cut inside, and allow the full backs to bomb forward. Othertimes we want them to stay out wide, and provide width, but then we moan about how isolated Torres is.

What I'd personally be happy with is trying the other if one isn't working, for instance last night Insua and Johnson were our only wide outlets, yet they still had to mark the dangerous Milner and Young, it meant they arrived later and couln't get involved as much (particularly in the first half), yet we still stuck at it until something had to give.  In the end it was the close marking of Young and Milner and releasing Insua and Johnson, and while that meant we were able to score it also meant Villa were given more space at the back to run into, as Carragher and Skrtel were doing the jobs of Masch/Gerrard.

The simple fact is, in most seasons, the team with the best defensive record wins the league. That's how United win it. They churn out one 1-0 result after another.

In the 5 season's Rafa has been here we have finished beneath a side that has an inferior or equal defensive record every season bar last season.

05 - Everton, 06 - Mancs, 07 - Mancs, 08 - Arsenal

[abhred]

I'm not one for stats, but for me, we are making far more mistakes now then we were earlier. There's many variables when we look at stats. I can say, we were the highest scoring team in the league last season, so there's no need to improve the attack. Just saying what I feel while watching our defense. There's no calm about it. No composure.

Our defense is severely lacking a player with a supreme ability to read the game, and it's been so since, Sami wasn't first choice anymore. Agger has similar ability, but I've almost given up on him going onto become the world's best center back, as his ability deserves.

Maybe it's just me, but there's too many mistakes, that just weren't there earlier. We never conceded this many goals from set pieces. Our zonal marking was implemented perfectly.

And I'm talking about just the champions. 5 out of the last 6 league winners have been teams with the best defensive record. United last year had a start as bad as we have had. But they sorted themselves out, and went on a massive winning streak, not by playing dazzling football, but by keeping clean sheets. One clean sheet after another.

I'm never confident we'll ever be able to hold onto a 1-0 lead. That's what league winners (United, and Chelsea, before) managed to perfect. The art of grinding out results.

Our attack's not perfect, but this seems to gloss over the fact that our defense is far from it.

Urgh, just fucking hope Agger gets back. We need him, and badly.

[Degs]

I'm not one for stats, but for me, we are making far more mistakes now then we were earlier. There's many variables when we look at stats. I can say, we were the highest scoring team in the league last season, so there's no need to improve the attack. Just saying what I feel while watching our defense. There's no calm about it. No composure.

I think you're being nostalgic.

[redmark]

As for the Gerrard penalty the defence was behind him, all he had to do was stay on his feet.  The defence was teacking back from the edge of the box

I'm not particularly in disagreement on most of your posts on the defence, except this bit. The defence shouldn't be "tracking back FROM the edge of the box", they should be holding a line and making a challenge. Gerrard was rash in his challenge, but I think it's inaccurate to say he didn't have to make one. The defence had dropped too deep and weren't in a position to stop a shot. If Gerrard hadn't made a challenge and Villa had scored from that position, we'd have posts on how Gerrard doesn't track back and shouldn't be playing central midfield (instead of he's too rash and shouldn't be playing central midfield). It was a mistake from Gerrard, but not an 'unnecessary' one. He was riled by his mistake moments before, but more than that I think frustrated at his performance, the team display and, possibly, a couple of deeper issues.

[Degs]

I'm not particularly in disagreement on most of your posts on the defence, except this bit. The defence shouldn't be "tracking back FROM the edge of the box", they should be holding a line and making a challenge. Gerrard was rash in his challenge, but I think it's inaccurate to say he didn't have to make one. The defence had dropped too deep and weren't in a position to stop a shot. If Gerrard hadn't made a challenge and Villa had scored from that position, we'd have posts on how Gerrard doesn't track back and shouldn't be playing central midfield (instead of he's too rash and shouldn't be playing central midfield). It was a mistake from Gerrard, but not an 'unnecessary' one. He was riled by his mistake moments before, but more than that I think frustrated at his performance, the team display and, possibly, a couple of deeper issues.

The way he slid in was unnecessary, Reo Coker has scored 1 goal in 62 matches for Villa.
Just stand him up and let the deeper defenders take care of the ball he'll be forced into playing.

The tackle was a rash one, the defence may have to shoulder some burden but to be honest I'll let them off considering they were standing on the halfwayline to make up fo rthe rest of the teams inability to get forward.  Poor Carragher was one of the few players who got in the box, tried to use his wrong foot, and won a corner.

[BazC]

Class post Degs, as always.

I don't agree with the Gerrard penalty incident bit though. There was a hge gaping hole in that space, and you could tell a few seconds before the pass was played to Reo-Coker that we were fucked if that ball went into that gap. The gap was left open by Gerrard (who'd only just been moved deeper as a CM) who just had a lapse in concentration. He lunges in to make amends, but even before he slid you knew exactly what was going to happen didn't you?

It was just a really bad piece of defending.

Rest of the post is great- things we should keep in mind for sure.

[hesbighesred]

I think both of you (abhred and Degs) make some excellent points in both posts.

From Degs - my take on it would be that our defensive systems seem excellent. The only really discernible 'pattern' to goals we concede is Set Pieces, errors (more later) and possibly Dropba. Set pieces we are not (and won't be by the end of the season) by any means the worst at defending them. Maybe slightly (which may be significant) worse than Utd and Chelsea. That we condede a high proportion of our goals from set-pieces is more because we're very, very difficult to break down in open play. There's also a lot of merit to the stats you bring up.

However, I do think you failed to address one concern in your analysis. Namely, the more you attack and have the ball, the less defending you tend to have to do. However, the defending you do have to do is likely to be more difficult. This is where the high profile mistakes come in. It seems to me that, compared to Utd and Chelsea in particular, we gift goals to far to many teams. Not just defensive mistakes, but real gifts, practically tied with a bow.

Both our defeats last season featured high profile own goals. I can remember us giving away a lot of stupid penalties. How often do you see Chelsea and Utd give those kinds of presents out - especially to shit sides?

Which is where I start to feel what Abhred is saying. I used to feel rock solid watching our defence, like we could repel attacks all day and night long. I actually get a bit like that, but without the satisfaction, watching Utd and Chelsea play. When we're under real pressure, I also get like that watching us...but when we're doing the pressuring it seems like we're only ever one completely self-induced defensive aberration away from borderline melt-down. Especially if it's 0-0, or our momentum has slowed and we're struggling for a 2nd. Carra and Alonso's own goals in both defeats last season, the 'we're 1-0 up with minutes to go away to a tricky Wigan team who basically can't score against any properly organised defence, let's see how many men we can pile into their box, and try hitting them with our second half competition to see who can give the ball away in the most flagrantly stupid manner' disaster.

The thing is - the bit that's been worrying me since maybe 3/4 of the way through last season - is that my worries all basically boil into one solid one, namely that our defenders aren't as good as we'd like them to be. This is also my big worry with Carra - top performance though he put in last night, considering. Our CBs are more like GK's now. Not only do they have to get involved in attacks, but they have to have peak concentration over 90 minutes. Ultimately, there comes a point where the only thing a manager can do is buy better players, hence why I say they're like GKs. If a GK makes too many mistakes, it doesn't matter how good they are at stopping shots eventually you have to get rid. It's harsh but this inevitably makes me focus on Carra - the other two are unknown quantities as a pairing, but at the same time I struggle to remember game breaking individual howlers from them. Agger's at Wigan is the obvious one, with the crucial difference that he went up the other end and basically conjured a goal for us. It's a moot point given our injuries, but it worries more all the more in the context of Carra's latest interview.

Personally, I think it's essential that Carra is rested for the odd game this season, especially against poor teams. However his comments on rotation seem very much like he wouldn't stand for that on anything remotely like a regular basis - he says what he says for all the right reasons, and I can't fault him for feeling the way he does, or the way he expresses it, but still I also can't help but think that it's a horrific position to put the manager in.

Still - Carra was, I thought, quality yesterday, made me eat my words on carrying the ball, but confirmed also that he is capable of doing a job in possession if he needs to. I'd love to see more of that over the course of the season. Maybe if Rafa bites the bullet and rests Carra before a big game maybe - then Carra comes in and has a great game, feeling as fit, sharp and confident as he has in years, he might come round to realising that the point of rotation isn't to accommodate big squads, but to keep everyone playing at their absolute best. In the long run though, I get the feeling that I wouldn't have these worries with a fit and 'fully bonded' Agger and Skrtel pairing. It's not just in possession, I certainly believe those are our two best 'natural' defenders - If either (or both together) can drill the defence as well as Carra does then, as I say, I don't think I'd be casting sickening but very grudgingly admittedly somewhat envious glances at Utd and Chelsea's (acting) captains.

[RedMichelFerri]

Speaking of last game, I am really Happy for Insua with the way he performed. He performed his defensive duties very well and also got a fantastic assist against villa. His run, pace he showed to get their before agbanlahor and finding Torees when off balance. Fantastic stuff from our young Argentine.

[scatman]

well i guess we can be positive in that we've identified our issues very early in the season and now need a good run of wins to get us back on track. We can still afford a few losses as long as our draws are kept to a minimum.

[Hank Scorpio]

It's important to note, and I think HBHR has already touched upon this, the context in which our defenders are asked to defend.

A particular defender may stand out in a side which is setup to highlight his strengths and compensate for his weaknesses.  Change the tactics, formation and game scenario and that same 'colossal' defender may start to look like a liability.

We have played to Carragher's strengths over the years and fair enough because it has worked with the squad and players at our disposal.  However, in recent seasons, we have struggled against sides who like to defend deep.  Too many points have been dropped against these types of teams.

Now, in true evolutionary fashion, we have tried to adapt so that we can combat this problem and perhaps we are finding out that our defenders are not what we require for the final push?  Our centrebacks have always had the security of 2 midfielders in front of them with primarily defensive full backs.  For first time under Benitez our central midfield is often vacated by one midfielder and because we have athletes at full back we ask them to push on sometimes beyond the attack.  The defence is looking vulnerable without it's security.

How many free kicks in our own half have we conceded in our two defeats this seasons?  We consistently gave Spurs and Villa opportunities to put balls into the box from set plays until they punished us.  If you look at the free kicks conceded for the goals, the area in which the free kicks have been conceded is almost the same.  IIRC, Skrtel fouled Palacios after he was allowed to run through our midfield, Carragher fouled Defoe having to step out to deal with an aimless long ball and Lucas fouled Petrov chasing back as he bear down on our defence.  You could probably throw a blanket over that area.

Previously, Palacios and Petrov would probably have been stopped at the source by one of the midfielders, as the shield remained in place, but now we have midfielders chasing back with retreating defenders.

The top sides often ask their centrebacks to go 1v1 at the back as they look to dominate the attack.  That means they need centrebacks who can win the ball early (in front of the attacker) and have good recovery pace as well as superb reading of the game. 

[b_joseph]

As always, great posts from you guys. A really good read for the early afternoon.



The Gerrard lunge - The fella should have just stayed on his feet because Reo-Cokers 1st touch was na abolsute disgrace of a 1st touch. The ball probably would have either ran out of player or Pepe would have got to it in time. But Stevie is prone to lunging and its one of the reasons why I hate to see him playing in deep roles. Too instinctive and impulsive to be playing in such a crucial area...back in the day, he was quicker and could probably get to the ball first but he is no way near as quick as he was in his early days.
Shit decisions by a world class player who played his worst game I have seen him have since that Arsenal CL game at home.
Something pissed him on Monday because he couldnt do anything positive all game long. I hate it when he is like that because he becomes introverted and is no help to anyone.

The Defense - I'm glad more people are bringing this up because it has been something of concern for a while now. Like others have said, we never truly look comfortable at 1-0 and while it is easy to say ''Oh well, get a 2nd goal to kill it off'', we have to find a way to see off a 1-0 for 3 points.
Think back to Everton at home last year and Arsenal home ( took a 2-1 lead in the 2nd half ) last year. 2 games we controlled but gave away because we could keep hold of a narrow. Then think to how many games United won last year by scrapping a 1-0. Kinda funny really because we get moaned at for being cautious but one of our main problems is that we cant defend slim leads very well.
It has got to the stage where I cringe whenever we have to defend a set piece...we are never first to the ball and we often get bullied by the opposition in the air. People moan that we dont look dangerous from our own corners but look at how we defend them and you can see why. Zonal or man, who cares at this stage...just attack the ball or atleast make the opposition have to work hard to get to the ball. The odds are that even if you foul him, the ref will let it go like he will do for a defender 99% of the time. Be tough.

One other thing we lack in defense is raw pace. Something that Johnson has helped us with but the other 3 players have absolutely no pace and you can get in behind us very easily if our defenders decide to squeeze up the pitch. Our recovery time is scary and it often leads to Skrtel or Carra lunging from behind to give away silly fouls. Skrtel nearly gave away a penalty because of this on Monday but Carra came over to concede a corner...probably saved his arse right there. But this is more nit-picking because I am moody today.


Bob at the top of the page - Totally agree about hemming a team in. This is why you should never call yourself this type of team or that type of team really. We tried to pass it around and make Villa work but it really wasnt happening for us. That is when you need to change your style immediately.
For us, that is where we need to press up the pitch. Nothing gets our crowd going more than seeing our team playing at 100 mph, pressing up the pitch trying to force mistakes from the other team. No team can live with us when we are playing like that because out 2 main goal threats enjoy that style of play. And when they are happy, everyone is happy.
Pressing should not be solely reserved for ''we have nothing to lose'' mode. Start with it and continue with it...especially at home when the team you are playing has no real interest in winning the game. At least Spurs were not scared of us but Villa on the other hand shit their pants whenever we took the game to them properly.


It is odd that we always start like this though. Its a marathon and not a sprint but by golly it would be nice to start the season with quality performances instead of scuffling for points.

[socrates the sophist]

I think I am in agreement with most of what you say. However there are a few details that I think we should clear up:

1) People tend to think that the difference (offensively) between the Stoke game and Villa/Spurs is that the latter teams pressed from high up the pitch while Stoke allowed us more time. While that is true it does not reflect the difference between the three games. I believe the difference between the Stoke and Villa game is dynamic attacking play vs static attacking play:

Against Villa:

                                             Torres

                                Gerard
                                                  Lucas
                 Yossi                                             Kuyt
                                                   
   Insua                                                              Johnson

                                          Masch

                          Skrtel                   Carra


Against Villa Masch became (with Carragher) our point guard. Gerard would stay deep in opposition half, Kuyt and Yossi would cut inside while there was no movement from Torres at all. They all waited for Masch (and Carragher) to give them the ball.
 
So what happens when pressure (exerted by Agbonlahor and Young) is put pressure on Masch or/and Carra?
A)They punt the ball leaving our attackers gasping for the 50-5- ball (happened a few times)
B)We lose the ball (Thankfully that did not happen)
C)We send the ball back to Reina (Happened A LOT especially in the first half)

So as you can see all the available options broke our rythem not because the team pressed us, but because we played static football.

Against Stoke:

The players moved about a lot, but the following is more or less their starting point when we start an attack.

                                    Torres
                                   
                    Yossi                           Kuyt

                                    Gerard   
  Insua                                                                Johnson
              Masch                                      Lucas

                      Skrtel                         Carra


Gerard dropped as deep as the half way line to offer an out to any of the CB and MC consider the 1st goal against Stoke. can you remember Gerard's initial place on the pitch before he darted into the penalty box? how many times was he in that position (before he played as an MC) against Villa. Yossi would cut inside as soon as Stevie dropped (this is why I think Riera isn't playing because he doesn't cut inside) and Kuyt would move towards the edge of the penalty area, allowing both Insua or Johnson to bomb forward while the other helped the midfield in moving the ball forward. Torres would move on the flank not occupied by one our fullbacks (usually the left). Lucas/ Masch would also overlap smetimes with Stevie

So now the question becomes "who to press" rather than "what happens if we pressurize Masch/Carra"
the obvious one to press is Gerard but consider how many "outs" he has?

To sum up playing dynamic foot-ball is about having triangles. Now consider how many ones we had against Stoke? and how many were there against Villa and you'll get why I think we didn't perform against Villa/Spurs.

[lfcderek]

A few thoughts on the evolution of the side post Alonso.

Wrong so far - me that is.

When it was confirmed that Xabi would be off I was of the opinion that we would replace (bad phrase that) him with a couple of players. A real AM, with enough in his legs to get back at least to some degree, and a box-to-box who could give us cover/rotation for Mash. Add in Gerrard and Lucas to give us 5 players for the mid 3 in a 433/4123. Yossi, Plessis, Spearing and Aurelio available in extremis.

Directly replacing Xabi would never be an option – there can’t be more than a handful of players in the world capable of it and we wouldn't get our hands on any of them.

Anyways, a second CM has not appeared. The owners pulling the budget? Rafa not being able to find someone at a price he’s willing to pay in the summer of City+Real? Whatever the reason, it would seem we will be staying with a 4231 with one of the 2 being further forward than the areas that Xabi used to operate in. Many and long were the calls in this thread for Alomso to make this move upfield by 5-10 yards but Rafa presumably felt that Alonso’s lack of mobility would leave us too exposed. It was very noticeable that Lucas has managed to get back on a number of occasions from advanced positions and effect successful tackles.

The benefits, that many on here have lauded, are obvious. There was a significant little episode when Carra played a crossfield ball out to the left for Kuyt. He clipped in a cross which their CB managed to just get a touch forcing the GK to tip onto the bar for a corner. The Liverpool player storming in behind the CB and the furthest of our players up the pitch? Lucas. Never in a month of Sundays would have Alonso been there.

This advanced role for Lucas will put a big strain on the lad though – and for Aquilani when he plays. The forward runs which Johnson seems so good at – and which are vital in beating the likes of Stoke - leave more holes to fill.

The main reason for my desire, and expectation, of a move to 433 lies in the belief that it would be easier to provide the personnel for such a system versus that for 4231. The (apparent) lack of funds to purchase a second CM rather squashes the whole idea anyway but do you guys agree with the principle?

Front 3 - Riera/Babel/Yossi/Torres/Kuyt/Ngog/Voronin
Mid 3   - Gerrard/Lucas/Mash/Aquilani/New CM/(Yossi)

Providing the New CM (if we could afford one) could cover Mash’s DM duties, this would seem to be more flexible, and provide more cover than the rather more specialised roles of the 4231.

If Pacheco were a year older and if Plessis were living up to the promise of 18 months ago we could probably run it with no further spending.
If, if, bloody if.

It has been mentioned before – we need to overcome the psychological problems of Alonso’s departure as well as the required changes to formation and tactics. We had the best part of 4 months, at the end of last season, as the best team in the league. It really was working. Alonso’s departure will inevitably put doubts in the minds of those that remain. It will require a bit of time for everyone to get their heads back on straight.

[royhendo]

So - has it been bad on here this week? I was in my mate's flat and he kept checking the scores on Soccer Special and then winding me up. I decided there and then: no way am I going anywhere near RAWK this week (new job, gotta be chippy and cheery, stuff letting blerts get me down for the week).

Can anyone give a three paragraph summary of the week in RAWK?

[hassinator]

So - has it been bad on here this week? I was in my mate's flat and he kept checking the scores on Soccer Special and then winding me up. I decided there and then: no way am I going anywhere near RAWK this week (new job, gotta be chippy and cheery, stuff letting blerts get me down for the week).

Can anyone give a three paragraph summary of the week in RAWK?

we have no more money for transfers. 

or do we?

that pretty much sums it up.

[hassinator]

oh and of course the usual:

lucas is shit/oh no he's not.

seb's made some good posts in the zonal marking thread you might want to check out.

[barnseysleftpeg]

So - has it been bad on here this week? I was in my mate's flat and he kept checking the scores on Soccer Special and then winding me up. I decided there and then: no way am I going anywhere near RAWK this week (new job, gotta be chippy and cheery, stuff letting blerts get me down for the week).

Can anyone give a three paragraph summary of the week in RAWK?

I hear you Roy loads of back and forth.

Lucas is shit - no he's not

We're broke - no we're not.

We're getting Robben - oh no we're not

That's been it pretty much.

[scatman]

it's been a week worth avoiding on here, because of all the Lucas gripe and shit after the good performance on Monday

[No666]

We are doomed...

One para. That's all you need to know, roy.

PS - we are not getting Dab-eed Be-yah, who drinks Sangria....

[liverbnz]

So - has it been bad on here this week? I was in my mate's flat and he kept checking the scores on Soccer Special and then winding me up. I decided there and then: no way am I going anywhere near RAWK this week (new job, gotta be chippy and cheery, stuff letting blerts get me down for the week).

Can anyone give a three paragraph summary of the week in RAWK?

Juan has a cracker of a post in  the Lucas, 'oh no he isn't, oh yes he is' thread. Sums it up pretty well.

[hassinator]

PS - we are not getting Dab-eed Be-yah, who drinks Sangria....

link?

[Degs]

Can anyone give a three paragraph summary of the week in RAWK?

People in camps A and B.

Camp A:
Lucas is shit. Zonal marking is shit. Drop Lucas, drop zonal marking.

Camp B:
Gerrard was as bad as Lucas, zonal marking isn't at fault but the players. Don't panic.

Basically.

[Degs]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-rutX0I6NxU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-rutX0I6NxU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>

That's right, now for something completely different.

Let's play a little game.  This week RAWK has mostly been dominated by an argument of Lucas vs. Gerrard.  Now it's obvious which side of the fence I fall down on, I posted my colours to the mast before the season started, and I'm not going to re-open the debate that has been raging (or why Gerrard giving away a penalty can be seen as living proof he shouldn;t be moved backwards, yet Lucas can give away a free kick and score an own goal from it yet it be classed as a mistake).

So as a light-hearted distraction time for a quiz

Please don't cheat.

Let's see if we can name the Liverpool players once the labels have been removed.

6 DIFFERENT players, from 6 different matches.
Go on then, who is who?

And what I'd like is for you to say WHY you think it is this player.

I'll give out the answers sometime next week depending on responses.

The arrows are passes, blue are successful and red unsuccessful.
Tackles, Interceptions, etc. are unfortunately not shown. 
Our goal is always the one to the far left.

1.


2.


3.



4.



5.


6.



Have fun 

[Joe_Singh]

1}
2} Mascharano
3) Carragher
4) Aurelio
5) Reina
6) Lucas

I'm assuming these are games from this season only.

[socrates the sophist]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-rutX0I6NxU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-rutX0I6NxU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;</a>

That's right, now for something completely different.

Let's play a little game.  This week RAWK has mostly been dominated by an argument of Lucas vs. Gerrard.  Now it's obvious which side of the fence I fall down on, I posted my colours to the mast before the season started, and I'm not going to re-open the debate that has been raging (or why Gerrard giving away a penalty can be seen as living proof he shouldn;t be moved backwards, yet Lucas can give away a free kick and score an own goal from it yet it be classed as a mistake).

So as a light-hearted distraction time for a quiz

Please don't cheat.

Let's see if we can name the Liverpool players once the labels have been removed.

6 DIFFERENT players, from 6 different matches.
Go on then, who is who?

And what I'd like is for you to say WHY you think it is this player.

I'll give out the answers sometime next week depending on responses.

The arrows are passes, blue are successful and red unsuccessful.
Tackles, Interceptions, etc. are unfortunately not shown. 
Our goal is always the one to the far left.

1.


2.


3.



4.



5.


6.



Have fun 

I'm not sure which season are these chalks from so I will not be so sure of the players:

1) Kuyt: most of the passes are down the right flank. It could well be Johnson or Arbeloa but I think they never move towards the left flank like Kuyt does sometimes during a game.

2) Lucas: Playing predominantly in the entire middle part of the pitch with lots of side passes. It could be Masch but I dont think he would have that many successful passes in one game.

3) Masch: Playing all over the pitch. He's the only player who has that kind of territorial freedom.

4) Xabi Alonso: it could also be Fabio Aurelio. Passes are mostly played from the defensive area, which suggests a deep lying player. The arrows are longer than in other chalks which suggests someone with bigger range. Only 2 missed passes, the one in the middle of the pitch would suggest it is not a left back, hence its Xabi. (It could be Carra but he plays on the right part of the pitch, not the left).

5) Pepe Reina: The master of distribution. Long passes from our own penalty area.

6) Steven Gerard: That pass from the bottom right corner; it is a typical Gerard corner delivered to Insua and sometimes Aurelio.

Hope I am even close 

[BazC]

That's class Degs  This is from this season so far I'm guessing. If not, then I'll have to revise.

1. Yossi - guessed it.
2. Masch - most possession in midfield, few mistakes but many passes sideways and backwards.
3. Lucas - box to box play.
4. Insua - left sided play, but if it's last season then I reckon it's Aurelio as there's quite a lot of accurate passing.
5. Reina - self explanatory!
6. Gerrard - corner taker. But could be Alonso if it's last season's as well- seems too deep for Gerrard though so not sure... would make sense if it was Spurs away this season though.

[Degs]

Hope I am even close 

All are current players but that earliest match stretches back to 2006, thye majority are form last season though.
I'm not saying how well you've done but I likie you've given reasons, all shall be revealed

[liverbnz]

1) Kuyt - most passes down the RHS. can't be a RB because there are some towards the left and centre where Arbeloa would never/rarely venture.

2)Lucas - nice, neat and tidy passing with nothing too adventurous

3)Mash - plenty of lay of passes in our own half, the ones where mash would say, "here Xabi you have it"

4)Aurelio - plenty of long accurate passes and mostly from the Lb area. misplaced pass in the centre was most likely a free kick

5)Reina - mostly long kicks and all from within the box

6)Gerrard - he doesn't let anyone else take corners

Nice work Degs!

[BazC]

Post the answers in a spoiler Degs!

[Degs]

Post the answers in a spoiler Degs!

"Sorry - you don't have the proper permissions to post spoilers. "

I'll let you know either Monday before  I'm out for Mathew St. or Tuesday

[royhendo]

Bet Seb gets the exact games an' all.

BTW London RAWKites, I'm daaahn saaahf for a while throughthe week if yous fancy meeting up for a pint. Unless you're weirdos, in which case I'm only jokin obviously.

[hassinator]

Bet Seb gets the exact games an' all.

BTW London RAWKites, I'm daaahn saaahf for a while throughthe week if yous fancy meeting up for a pint. Unless you're weirdos, in which case I'm only jokin obviously.

sorry degsy far too stoned to try and take the pepsi challenge

roy - i'm up for a pint next week where do you want to meet up?

[royhendo]

You da man with the knowledge mate but same boozer as last time suits me fine.

No games midweek although I'm hopefully gonna play fives on Thursday. Woohoo!!

Bed.

[scatman]

ah where do u guys normally go for a pint?

[scatman]

1. Dirk Kuyt, because it's everywhere but mostly down the right and dirk does tend to be in a lot of places at once

2. Mascherano, a lot of passes, noticed that he's the one who's done the most passes this season.

3. Lucas, i reckon this is him, just seems like it, theres a lot of short passes, a few misplaced ones.

4. Fabio Aurelio, most of the play on the left, a few ambitious passes and quite a few to Reina.

5. Reina, this is a guess, thought it could be Skrtel/Carragher due to some being outside the box and still unsuccesful.

6. Definately not Gerrard, a lot of passes around the centre circle has to be Alonso, then again wait, it could be Lucas. Dammit.

I give up :|

[BazC]

We're playing 4-3-3 at the moment, Gerrard right CM, Mascherano CM and Lucas L CM.

This is what we need to play more often in my opinion.... let's see how it goes!