Topic: NBA Discussion

[Bobinhood]

Lowry to Og .05 left. Pure filth.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1301693408411619330

[ByrdmanLFC]

We are completely getting outbodied as expected, but i want to point out that the Clippers are getting every call, doesn't change the game really, but every time we are touching them, the whistle blows.

It's a recurring thing in this league imo, where the Topteams and players are just getting every call.


Going forward i hope our players "grow some balls" because it looks to me as we are scared to get hit on defense, we are not even trying to close the paint because the oponnent could run into us.

[elsewhere]

Both #1 teams playing like crap. Bucks are done now, they will be swept. Lakers lost to a Rockets team that actually defended very well, even though people were waiting the opposite. Same Rockets team came after playing a Wednesday 7th game vs OKC. Some folks say Lakers lost 1st game against Portland as well but imo this is different, Lakers struggle to score aside from AD and Lebron. So there is a big danger for Lakers imo.

[elsewhere]

Credit when it's due, I criticized Butler a few times here and said he is a problem maker, he had those tendencies in Minnesota and Chicago, so i didn't expect him to lead a team. Boy, was I wrong. He has been the MVP of the play-off's so far. They are 7-0 in the play-off's. I don't ever open my mouth against him, well, unless they lose this series 4-3.

[latortuga]

Both #1 teams playing like crap. Bucks are done now, they will be swept. Lakers lost to a Rockets team that actually defended very well, even though people were waiting the opposite. Same Rockets team came after playing a Wednesday 7th game vs OKC. Some folks say Lakers lost 1st game against Portland as well but imo this is different, Lakers struggle to score aside from AD and Lebron. So there is a big danger for Lakers imo.

Huge problems for the Lakers.  They couldn't solve the small ball Houston in the reg season going 1-2 H2H despite all their size and now in playoff conditions and yet to find their reg season form - there have been flashes - are going to need to find the solutions quickly. 

One thing that stood out from game 1 that forms part of the solution is the Lakers, particularly "Pippen James" haha needs to stop with trying to compete with Harden from 3.  At one point Harden hit that 3 and then James says give me the ball and goes up the other end and throws up an absolute brick that comes off the bottom of the backboard.  Sure he can hit those on occasions, but he needs to forget the circus shots and use his advantage and muscle Houston inside. 

It's rocket science that Houston want you to get in a 3pt battle which the Lakers as one of the worst (worst?) 3pt teams inside the bubble will never win.  OKC stuck to their game, defended well and took the Rockets to a 7 game series, no reason with the better players the Lakers can't do the same but eventually wear them down and get over the top of them.  Too bad they'll have a very rested Clippers team waiting.

[kloppagetime]

Credit when it's due, I criticized Butler a few times here and said he is a problem maker, he had those tendencies in Minnesota and Chicago, so i didn't expect him to lead a team. Boy, was I wrong. He has been the MVP of the play-off's so far. They are 7-0 in the play-off's. I don't ever open my mouth against him, well, unless they lose this series 4-3.

Butler may have attitude problems but when he's on that court he gives nothing but a 100% commitment and dedication. It's no coincidence that the 76ers had their best playoff performances when Jimmy Butler was on the team.

Giannis will be heading there in 2021 and Miami are building the next super team in the NBA. Erik Spolestra didn't the credit he deserved for the job he did in the big three era, after that era ended though he's proven he's right up there with the best coaches in the league.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

If / when the Bucks gets swept. Think the rumours of a trade for Giannis to the Warriors is on the cards? New draft pick, Wiggins, future picks...

[elsewhere]

If / when the Bucks gets swept. Think the rumours of a trade for Giannis to the Warriors is on the cards? New draft pick, Wiggins, future picks...

Raptors might be a destination as well. He is very close to Masai Ujiri, there have been rumors for the last 3 years. I am a Warriors fan but I have to say our style and his won't mix well. Heat would be his best choice from basketball point.

[trimore]

Raptors might be a destination as well. He is very close to Masai Ujiri, there have been rumors for the last 3 years. I am a Warriors fan but I have to say our style and his won't mix well. Heat would be his best choice from basketball point.

It would be interesting for the Raptors since Giannis is so similar to Siakam. Hopefully if it happens Siakam can develop his shooting game further and Giannis won't mind playing center while seeing the ball in his hands less. All while ensuring there is enough room for both of them to maneuver in the paint, creating room for each other with smart passing. 

[Bobinhood]

The Raps Celtics series is turning into a good one. I was very worried for Toronto going in because they played the Nets who never even contested the boards at either end, i'd never seen anything like it for shite in the playoffs, and the Celtics were gonna be full on culture shock. But now Toronto got up to speed but its still very even. Love to see it go 7 there would be some good basketball.

[trimore]

The Raps Celtics series is turning into a good one. I was very worried for Toronto going in because they played the Nets who never even contested the boards at either end, i'd never seen anything like it for shite in the playoffs, and the Celtics were gonna be full on culture shock. But now Toronto got up to speed but its still very even. Love to see it go 7 there would be some good basketball.

It's still tough for the Raps, the 3 weaknesses we hoped to exploit just aren't there. Smart has been great offensively, Kemba even better on defense and their bench has matched ours in contribution.

My main hope is that Fred continues his impressive finishing at the rim he had in game 3 and OG can make up for Siakam's average shooting. But as a raps fan I'm still living off of last year and as long as we don't get embarrassed I'm ok losing this.

[Doc Red]

Celtics Miami will make for a tasty Playoff series.
Lebron James has once again failed to win one of the first 2 home games as the higher ranked team.
And once again, his team will dust themselves off, adjust, and dominate the remaining games.

It's what his teams tend to do. Either they sweep, or drop one of the first two games.
Different animal when the pressure is on, he'll go beastmode next few games.
Looking forward to seeing the Rockets and Bucks get knocked out, don't enjoy watching them play at all. Actually, the Bucks aren't so bad to watch when they've got whats-his-name-the-former-Pacer-PG playing. Then it actually looks like a bonafide offense old school style with a point that looks to create, crafty enough to finish at the rim, and has a decent shot on him.

[J-Mc-]

If anyone’s based in the US and can find a 3XL Lakers jersey, let me know please.

I’d be willing to send cash plus postage. Tried to get one in the UK but to no avail.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

Look like Kawhis shooting got updated with the new 2K, no greens to be seen

[elsewhere]

Didn't expect these results, great to see. I'd love Nuggets to make a comeback. Kudos to Raptors team, that three in the end of 3rd game maybe mentally collapsed the Celtics team?

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

Didn't expect these results, great to see. I'd love Nuggets to make a comeback. Kudos to Raptors team, that three in the end of 3rd game maybe mentally collapsed the Celtics team?

Never paid attention to Murray before the playoffs, but whatever has happened to him since. . been a monster

[ByrdmanLFC]

Never paid attention to Murray before the playoffs, but whatever has happened to him since. . been a monster

Streaky  player, can catch fire and score insanely, but can also shoot 20% and get 12 Points in a game. I really like him, but he has so much work to do to become a star.


Our win yesterday is down to Grant and Harris though imo. Yes, Jokic and Murray were fire offensively in the first half, but when we started getting worse and worse on offense, Grant and Harris, defended Kawhi and George like beasts.

I believe we have a slight chance in this series, but only if we keep going hard at them defensively.

[FlashGordon]

Middleton showed some balls I wasn't sure he had there. Tyler Herro looks a good young player.

[J-Mc-]

Lebron is just an absoloute beast.

Those first few blocks changed the game, Rockets got rocked and Rondo was just left to dictate the game.

Incredibly second half.

[elsewhere]

Giannis Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis, Ben Simmons Headline NBA All-Defensive Team

https://www.nba.com/2019-20-all-defensive-teams-official-release

Giannis Antetokounmpo headlines the 19-20 NBA All-Defensive First Team.

Antetokounmpo received 97 NBA All-Defensive First Team votes from a global panel of 100 sportswriters and broadcasters and earned 195 total points.

Joining Antetokounmpo on the 2019-20 NBA All-Defensive First Team are Los Angeles Lakers forward Anthony Davis (187 points; 87 First Team votes), Philadelphia 76ers guard Ben Simmons (185 points; 88 First Team votes), Utah Jazz center Rudy Gobert (180 points; 85 First Team votes) and Boston Celtics guard Marcus Smart (152 points; 57 First Team votes).

The 2019-20 NBA All-Defensive Second Team consists of LA Clippers forward Kawhi Leonard (128 points), Bucks center Brook Lopez (67), Miami Heat forward Bam Adebayo (61), Clippers guard Patrick Beverley (60) and Bucks guard Eric Bledsoe (59).

[kloppagetime]

Lebron is just an absoloute beast.

He really is year in year out in the playoffs he constantly delivers the guy is simply incredible. If he wins the title this season the goat debate between him and Jordan would absolutely be a legitimate argument.

[Doc Red]

He really is year in year out in the playoffs he constantly delivers the guy is simply incredible. If he wins the title this season the goat debate between him and Jordan would absolutely be a legitimate argument.

I've already got Lebron above MJ on my greatest list.
He's at #2, Jordan #3.

[Gods_Left_Boot]

I've already got Lebron above MJ on my greatest list.
He's at #2, Jordan #3.

Who do you have top, Kareem?

[Doc Red]

Who do you have top, Kareem?

Yup.
Hard to beat a player that won every single competitive trophy from highschool->NBA. Multiple NBA titles, greatest scorer in history etc etc.

Think sometimes the big fellas are slept on a lot. I've got Wilt as #4.

[Gods_Left_Boot]

Yup.
Hard to beat a player that won every single competitive trophy from highschool->NBA. Multiple NBA titles, greatest scorer in history etc etc.

Think sometimes the big fellas are slept on a lot. I've got Wilt as #4.

It's definitely a reasonable argument. His longevity and production at all levels are a class apart, he's definitely the most underrated of the all time greats, many people don't even include him in their top 5. He's by most accounts the biggest, most hyped high school prospect of all time along with Lebron and Ewing as well as the leader of the greatest NCAA team of all time. I guess his legacy is hurt a bit by playing the first half of his career in Milwaukee and at a time when the NBA was not really on the radar and then the Lakers always been considered "Magic's team".

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Jordan still #1 regardless of what happens this year.

[elsewhere]

Jordan still #1 regardless of what happens this year.

Absolutely, and I was a big Jordan hater as I wanted Stockton to get a ring at the time. But that guy was out of this world.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Absolutely, and I was a big Jordan hater as I wanted Stockton to get a ring at the time. But that guy was out of this world.

Yup. You can't erase Bron's poor showing against Dallas in the finalas, nor can you erase 6 rings in 6 finals from Jordan.

[elsewhere]

Looks like Becky Hammon could be first female head coach of the NBA. Pacers will interview her.

[Midget]

Anybody else just hate the Raptors? And I'm a neutral follower of the league too.

Great game nevertheless.

[unknownuser]

Anybody else just hate the Raptors? And I'm a neutral follower of the league too.

Great game nevertheless.

Why the hatred? Genuine question. I am from Toronto so I am biased.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

Anybody else just hate the Raptors? And I'm a neutral follower of the league too.

Great game nevertheless.

I'm the opposite, loved their run last year and rooting for them especially after losing Kawhi

[trimore]

Being a Raptors and Liverpool fan over the last few years has been the wildest ride a sports fan could possibly imagine. Jesus Christ, taking years off my life expectancy.

We'll still probably lose game 7 but I'm glad we got some results going so small this game. I just love seeing this team showing off its maleability. From going super jumbo in game 7 against philly to what we did this game. It's hard to believe any team could pull off such wild stylistic swings in such a short amount of time. 

[kloppagetime]

Anybody else just hate the Raptors? And I'm a neutral follower of the league too.

Great game nevertheless.

I love watching them play Nick Nurse is an excellent coach love the mentality he's installed into what was once a bunch of bottlers and turned them into one of the most mentally toughest teams in the league.

[Broad Spectrum]

Anybody else just hate the Raptors? And I'm a neutral follower of the league too.

Great game nevertheless.

Im a Celtics fan and have been desperately trying to hate them in this series but I can’t. Nick Nurse is an outstanding coach, I love the way he changes up the defence pretty much every game and adapts, he’s such an inventive coach. Kemba Walker was totally marked out of the game last night was an exceptional defensive performance from the raptor guards.

Saying that, Brown obviously shouldn’t have allowed Anunoby space in the corner at the end of game 3, as we potentially could have wrapped the series up in 4/5. Unfortunately I think the Raptors will win game 7 now and progress to the final. But regardless of who goes through from the East, no-one is beating either LA franchise in the final.

[Doc Red]

Yup. You can't erase Bron's poor showing against Dallas in the finalas, nor can you erase 6 rings in 6 finals from Jordan.

The former point is the red flag on Lebron. They should have sealed that Championship, especially going 2-0 up and leading in the 3rd game.
But 6 in 6 rings?

Lebron has been to 9 NBA Finals. Just think about that for a second. He took his team to a Final for 8 consecutive seasons.
Granted, he hasn't gone 6-3 or 5-4, he's gone 3-6. 3 of those against the Warriors (with Durant avaiable for 2 of them), two against the Spurs (one in his second NBA season), and the one against Dallas.

It took Jordan many years to get to the Finals. Question should be, why did he only make 6 Finals? And would Lebron be more respected if he had gone to less Finals, for instance not the last two. It's almost like he gets negative points for going to more NBA Finals.

And if he goes to another NBA Finals this season, and wins it. That's 4 Championships with 3 teams, and 10 NBA Finals.
Not to mention his incredible stats in the Playoffs and especially Finals (he's won 2 game 7s in the Finals). There's literally nothing he could have done more than what he's done in NBA Finals bar the Dallas loss, we know this because his overall numbers surpass everyone else.

You can still stick with Jordan, but the argument isn't as one sided as you make it.
Also, Kareem has 6 NBA Finals, 6 MVPs, NBA scoring record, and has led the league in Scoring, Rebounds, and Blocked shots. Yet he gets slept on a lot.

If Jordan was so dominant, why didn't he lead his team to Finals earlier in his career? If the excuse is that his supporting cast was so weak, why are we not using that same argument to support Lebron. Majority of the NBA Finals Lebron played, his team were not the favourites. The Bulls were always the favourites, even against their toughest Final rivals, the Jazz.

And I don't even have Lebron or Jabbar as my favourite players (Isiah all day!), but stats should be respected. Not just the 6v6.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I respect the stats, but nothing Lebron does will change Jordan being the undisputed GOAT. Jordan also played in a hand check body slam era, let's not gloss over that fact. To me getting to the final and losing doesn't give you more points over someone who has never lost a final. Regardless of how many years it took him to get there, once he got there, he didn't lose. Never went to a game 7. That can't be undone. Compare the competition in the East at that time to what Lebron had to go through in his time. Hardly like for like in terms of quality.

Kareem get's glossed over because he's a giant. That's not a skill, that's a God given gift, and because of his height, his shot couldn't be stopped. I put more emphasis on players who develop their skills  and all around game. [It's the same reason why I wouldn't ever put Shaq as the greatest if he won another 3 rings]

[Doc Red]

I respect the stats, but nothing Lebron does will change Jordan being the undisputed GOAT. Jordan also played in a hand check body slam era, let's not gloss over that fact. To me getting to the final and losing doesn't give you more points over someone who has never lost a final. Regardless of how many years it took him to get there, once he got there, he didn't lose. Never went to a game 7. That can't be undone. Compare the competition in the East at that time to what Lebron had to go through in his time. Hardly like for like in terms of quality.

Kareem get's glossed over because he's a giant. That's not a skill, that's a God given gift, and because of his height, his shot couldn't be stopped. I put more emphasis on players who develop their skills  and all around game. [It's the same reason why I wouldn't ever put Shaq as the greatest if he won another 3 rings]

Alrighty then.
So what's your criteria for Giant. 7ft, 6ft 8?
Jordan was 6ft 6, at that time with a vertical jump few other guards had, with very big hands, and the type of physical speciman that is more common today than in that era (Drexler was the other athletic 2 guard). That's a God given gift that he build a skill and game around.

Dismissing players from the GOAT discussion because they're above a certain height? That's certainly a new argument.
But hey, this is one of those circular arguments that doesn't end. Some pick total records, others pick longevity, others pick total titles, others pick winning % in Finals, and I guess others include height as an argument as well.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I'm not dismissing him, I am giving you a potential reason why he's often ignored in the debate. It's what people can relate to, more to MJ's game than to Karim's. Even Karim himself called his shot 'unsexy'. That doesn't mean he should be ignored, but i am just giving you a perspective as to why that is.

For me the argument goes down like this. Who do you want in the finals, regardless of opposition, MJ or Lebron? I'm picking MJ. His mentality is unmatched by Lebron and the only player that could get close to his mindset is Kobe.

[Doc Red]

I'm not dismissing him, I am giving you a potential reason why he's often ignored in the debate. It's what people can relate to, more to MJ's game than to Karim's. Even Karim himself called his shot 'unsexy'. That doesn't mean he should be ignored, but i am just giving you a perspective as to why that is.

For me the argument goes down like this. Who do you want in the finals, regardless of opposition, MJ or Lebron? I'm picking MJ. His mentality is unmatched by Lebron and the only player that could get close to his mindset is Kobe.

Hmm. Fair enough. Though Lebron has a pretty good stat line vs Jordan in the Finals = ppg 28.2 vs 33.6, 10 rpgvs6rpg, 7.7 apg vs 6spg.,  Shooting % 47.2 vs 48.1
And surely no one would pick Kobe over Lebron for a Finals, regardless of "mindset" he shot 41% and averaged 25ppg 5.7rbg 5.1apg.
Mentality is one of those things thrown around a lot, especially in defence of Jordan (and Kobe) and against the likes of Lebron. At the end of the day, you need to put the ball in the basket, and mentality should be correlated with the shooting % you have when on the floor.


For me, the argument is which player would I pick if I was building a team to win the Championship. Easy pick for me, Kareem or Lebron.
Jordan is amazing and all that, but in this era guards are 6ft7 or 6ft 8+ just as the norm. His physical qualities that set him so different from other guards in that era (even mentioned by him) would just be the norm today. Different than when he was guarded by the likes of a 6ft4 Dumars, or a 6ft 3 Scott, or a 6ft5 Starks, or a 6ft 3 Hornacek for the Jazz playoffs (twice). Having said all that, wasn't Jordan guarded by Drexler in their playoffs, or did they switch? He was 6ft 7.