Topic: Pep Guardiola at Bayern Munich

[killer-heels]

He was one of the most talented young players in the world at Borussia D. But so was Isco, and some say, so was El Sharaawy. Football is a lot about confidence and determination, if it goes, then the players never look the same. The big question with Gotze is, has he lost his passion, determination and confidence while he sat on Bayern bench accepting his inferiority not only to Muller and Robben, but half-fit Ribery, Coman and truly one-dimensional Douglas Costa (the second half of this season)?

Thats fair enough. He isnt the flashiest of players so if he doesnt play well then he does look ordinary.

[rscanderlech]

He was one of the most talented young players in the world at Borussia D. But so was Isco, and some say, so was El Sharaawy. Football is a lot about confidence and determination, if it goes, then the players never look the same. The big question with Gotze is, has he lost his passion, determination and confidence while he sat on Bayern bench accepting his inferiority not only to Muller and Robben, but half-fit Ribery, Coman and truly one-dimensional Douglas Costa (the second half of this season)?

This, I think, is where Klopp comes in. If there's a coach who is known for man management, for creating an amazing mentality in his team, it's Klopp. If he can't succeed at Liverpool, he probably won't succeed anywhere.

Bayern was always the wrong move for him. He made that step a year or two too early.

[exiledintheUSA]

20m for Gotze? Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

As long as its done by 4pm, we close early on Sunday's.

[Chakan]

As long as its done by 4pm, we close early on Sunday's.

Going once... going twice... done deal!

[fenre]

Thats fair enough. He isnt the flashiest of players so if he doesnt play well then he does look ordinary.

He was absolutely exceptional in that CL run for Dortmund back in 12/13 season, and that season in general. The matches against Real Madrid were he was moving lateral between the lines was just amazing. In my eyes, one of the most undervalued players in Bayern in recent years and if he went to Liverpool, that would be the signing of the season. No doubt about that.

[Xxavi]

He was absolutely exceptional in that CL run for Dortmund back in 12/13 season, and that season in general. The matches against Real Madrid were he was moving lateral between the lines was just amazing. In my eyes, one of the most undervalued players in Bayern in recent years and if he went to Liverpool, that would be the signing of the season. No doubt about that.

Undervalued by whom? It is one thing to lose competition to Robben and Muller, but it is a different thing if you are behind Coman in the pecking order. Coman is a teenager who has barely any playing experience. He is extremely raw, too. Yet, Gotze is behind Coman.

Not saying he is not worth a gamble, but options must be considered. It all depends how much he would cost and what would be his salary. The gamble is only worth if he is reasonably priced.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Undervalued by whom? It is one thing to lose competition to Robben and Muller, but it is a different thing if you are behind Coman in the pecking order. Coman is a teenager who has barely any playing experience. He is extremely raw, too. Yet, Gotze is behind Coman.

Not saying he is not worth a gamble, but options must be considered. It all depends how much he would cost and what would be his salary. The gamble is only worth if he is reasonably priced.

Robben is one of the 10 best greatest players of his generation, Ribery not far behind, and Muller is both a) a Bayern staple, and b) brilliant; losing out to these three is not an indication that he can't be a worthy player at a top team elsewhere (he already has been). Gotze is behind Coman this season because Coman offers pace and a wide outlet, which is Bayern's main method of attacking this season, and because Gotze has been unfit for most of the year, after injury problems last year too. And Coman has been brilliant and is already integrated and a key part of Bayern's team, and Gotze does not offer pace or good crossing from the wings.

You could compare it to James at Madrid, who was great last season and yet due to injuries and a change in system, is no longer a good fit at Madrid. That doesn't diminish his quality. Gotze's first season at Bayern was a moderate success, his second was poor, this year you can put down to injuries.

At £20m and probably 150k a week, you will not fit a single player his age with his resume.

[RyanBabel19]

Must not get excited about possibility of Gotze coming to us

Outrageous talent

[Xxavi]

At £20m and probably 150k a week, you will not fit a single player his age with his resume.

Agreed. That's a great price in today's market. But will he come for that?

PS By the way, pace may be an issue for Gotze in England. He didn't seem particularly pacy in Germany. But if anybody knows how to use him it is Klopp.

[Adam_LFC]

Agreed. That's a great price in today's market. But will he come for that?

PS By the way, pace may be an issue for Gotze in England. He didn't seem particularly pacy in Germany. But if anybody knows how to use him it is Klopp.

He was a catalyst in that frantic and relentless Dortmund side that got to the Champions League final. I think he will be fine.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Agreed. That's a great price in today's market. But will he come for that?

He has a year on his contract, Kicker reported 20-25m euros is what Bayern are looking for.

To be honest £20m is relative peanuts nowadays, with the likes of Martial going for 40m+ after a dozen good games (good buy of course).

[Xxavi]

He has a year on his contract, Kicker reported 20-25m euros is what Bayern are looking for.

To be honest £20m is relative peanuts nowadays, with the likes of Martial going for 40m+ after a dozen good games (good buy of course).

Agreed. Didn't realize Bayern would accept 20-25m euros. That's totally worth the gamble. That would also mean that Liverpool will have a lot of competition for his signature.

[Vinay]

Undervalued by whom? It is one thing to lose competition to Robben and Muller, but it is a different thing if you are behind Coman in the pecking order. Coman is a teenager who has barely any playing experience. He is extremely raw, too. Yet, Gotze is behind Coman.

Not saying he is not worth a gamble, but options must be considered. It all depends how much he would cost and what would be his salary. The gamble is only worth if he is reasonably priced.

Then it is not a gamble.

[Redman0151]

We can probably get him in for the same price we are hoping to shift Benteke for, that's good enough for me

[classycarra]

Is Gotze actually that good? I have only really seen him for Germany and Bayern and he plods about a fair bit. I guess he must have been good for Dortmund all those years ago.

this is something i'm wondering about too, as someone who rarely saw him playing full matches in his dortmund days.

i've seen him play in games fairly passively - not poorly,like a solid 6/10, but also not particularly assertive.

likewise, he struck me as a bit one-paced, much like kroos but less profound. is gotze faster than lallana?

there's no doubting his quality and technique, i'm just interested in people's views on him physically - really feel having some pace injected into our attack would transform us and make us so much stronger, quicker and more dangerous in transitions/counters

[RayPhilAlan]

If we could only get one attacker this summer, I'd want it to be a fast, goalscoring winger. That just seems to be more of a missing area for us. But if we can get two attackers, then why not Gotze?

Klopp knows him far better than any of us, obviously, and if he's the number one target as per the Paul Joyce quotes above, then who am I to say otherwise?

Presume he'd play centrally? We've normally used Lallana or Firmino in that slot, so I guess one of them will be forced wide. If we get a winger as well... well, rotation becomes easier!

[Shaved Crossbar]

Agreed. Didn't realize Bayern would accept 20-25m euros. That's totally worth the gamble. That would also mean that Liverpool will have a lot of competition for his signature.

Juve are interested by all accounts.

likewise, he struck me as a bit one-paced, much like kroos but less profound. is gotze faster than lallana?

there's no doubting his quality and technique, i'm just interested in people's views on him physically - really feel having some pace injected into our attack would transform us and make us so much stronger, quicker and more dangerous in transitions/counters

In his Dortmund days I would have said that he is faster than Lallana, I'm not sure that's true based off his Bayern days. But despite his relative lack of pace, he was the leader of the fastest countering team in Europe. He used to glide past players at Dortmund with ease, it was Messi-esque with the way he'd feint and change his body shape at the last second.

I agree with you on the latter part.

[tubby]

He's not quick at all but his technique is so good that he looks it at times.  Outstanding balance and is very economical in how he uses the ball, for around €20m that'd be outstanding value, assuming he's over his injury problems.

[rscanderlech]

If we could only get one attacker this summer, I'd want it to be a fast, goalscoring winger. That just seems to be more of a missing area for us. But if we can get two attackers, then why not Gotze?

Klopp knows him far better than any of us, obviously, and if he's the number one target as per the Paul Joyce quotes above, then who am I to say otherwise?

Presume he'd play centrally? We've normally used Lallana or Firmino in that slot, so I guess one of them will be forced wide. If we get a winger as well... well, rotation becomes easier!

Seeing as this year we spent 32m on Benteke and 21 rising to 29 or something on Firmino in a single season--in addition to spending significant money on Clyne--and seeing as next year we will have the new PL deal and everything, I imagine we will be getting more than one major signing, in terms of cost. So I'm sure we will still try to get a winger.

[thisyearisouryear]

Gotze 

Would be one hell of a fantastic signing. Genuine world-class talent and he is just 23! I am actually scared to get my hopes up 

Btw, read some rumour of Chelsea getting interested too. Hopefully Klopp factor takes care of that.

[Redcap]

Dunno why this has become the Gotze thread, but Dembele seems to suit our needs more.

[OsirisMVZ]

Dunno why this has become the Gotze thread, but Dembele seems to suit our needs more.

Ousmane? Dortmund have already confirmed the transfer on their site. He's unavailable now.

[QC]

Will be very surprised if Gotze doesn't sign for us this summer.

[thelinnen]

Will be very surprised if Gotze doesn't sign for us this summer.

You must be new to this Liverpool supporting stuff.

[QC]

You must be new to this Liverpool supporting stuff.

Hha. It's different with Klopp, and Gotze's agent made some positive comments too I believe. Pretty confident about this one.

[Doc Red]

The discussion on debate has certainly changed over the last 2 days.

[lionel_messias]

Unless his rather attractive young wife is very demanding about shopping in London, surely this happens with a 5 min chat between Klopp and the player. See that Liverpool v Dortmund game in Europa - fancy some of that son?

[thelinnen]

Hha. It's different with Klopp, and Gotze's agent made some positive comments too I believe. Pretty confident about this one.

Always expect to be disappointed, if it actually happens then it feel even better.

[Suareznumber7]

Undervalued by whom? It is one thing to lose competition to Robben and Muller, but it is a different thing if you are behind Coman in the pecking order. Coman is a teenager who has barely any playing experience. He is extremely raw, too. Yet, Gotze is behind Coman.

Not saying he is not worth a gamble, but options must be considered. It all depends how much he would cost and what would be his salary. The gamble is only worth if he is reasonably priced.

The decision to play Coman over Gotze could've been nothing more then a tactical decision.  Pep played with true wingers who generally stayed wide and with fullbacks who came more central.  To me, from what I remember anyway, that doesn't seem like it would suit Gotze' attributes as a player. 

Articles coming out are saying that we'd be willing to make Gotze one of our highest earners so it seems that Klopp is thinking it's not a gamble at all.   

[Suareznumber7]

Btw, read some rumour of Chelsea getting interested too. Hopefully Klopp factor takes care of that.

Rumors now that Arsenal are also interested.  If we can win on Wednesday then the combination of Klopp and CL football will surely hopefully turn the tide in our favor

[Mutton Geoff]

Must not get excited about possibility of Gotze coming to us

Outrageous talent

Call for the Gotze Herder to bring him to us.

[Halibut-Thumb]

Klopp was the guy who gave Goetze his chance and coached him into the best teenage footballer in the world at the time. He will be immense if we sign him, best signing since Suarez.

[HighSix]

Surprised at the price being mentioned. Looks like a bargain with some of the other early summer fees floating about.

Would love us to add a couple of players with his talent level but not fussed either way if its him. We just need to be shopping smart & adding players to complement those we have.

[Xxavi]

Regarding the price, if true, this tells me that Bayern also are terrible when it comes to selling players. Just like Barcelona. Bayern and Barca have sold the likes of Cesc, Alexis and Kroos for fairly low price. Compare this to the prices of the likes of David Luiz, Cuadrado etc. who are far worse players yet cost more than what Bayern and Barca got.

20m euros for Gotze in today's market would be hilariously low.

[Suareznumber7]

Regarding the price, if true, this tells me that Bayern also are terrible when it comes to selling players. Just like Barcelona. Bayern and Barca have sold the likes of Cesc, Alexis and Kroos for fairly low price. Compare this to the prices of the likes of David Luiz, Cuadrado etc. who are far worse players yet cost more than what Bayern and Barca got.

20m euros for Gotze in today's market would be hilariously low.

Last year of his contract surely has a big effect on the price.

[Xxavi]

Last year of his contract surely has a big effect on the price.

Yeah, I guess so. But was Kroos in his last year of contract, too? I cannot remember Bayern selling well.

It's just weird that they spend 35m+45m add-on for an unproven teenager but are selling a young world cup winner for 20-25m euros. World has gone mad.

[Gerry Attrick]

Yeah, I guess so. But was Kroos in his last year of contract, too? I cannot remember Bayern selling well.

It's just weird that they spend 35m+45m add-on for an unproven teenager but are selling a young world cup winner for 20-25m euros. World has gone mad.

24m for Kroos didn't seem a lot at the time but I'd be hard pressed to argue he's been a bargain for Madrid, even at that price.

[Xxavi]

24m for Kroos didn't seem a lot at the time but I'd be hard pressed to argue he's been a bargain for Madrid, even at that price.

Yeah, you know what I think of Kroos, he is a true flop. Kroos would have suited Barca better, and his position isn't central/defensive mid anyway. But with all that said, he has to be judged for what he has shown for Madrid. Perhaps the player they should replace first in their starting line-up, the very weakest player in their first 11.

[Gerry Attrick]

Yeah, you know what I think of Kroos, he is a true flop. Kroos would have suited Barca better, and his position isn't central/defensive mid anyway. But with all that said, he has to be judged for what he has shown for Madrid. Perhaps the player they should replace first in their starting line-up, the very weakest player in their first 11.

He's been played a tad out of position but he really has been terrible. Real are good at selling players they no longer want for big money though. £40m for Ozil and £55m for Di Maria were excellent fees.

[HighSix]

Always seem to have clauses, buybacks ect with the younger players let go. Well run in that regard.