Topic: 7he Manches7er Uni7ed 7hread - NO GREENWOOD/ANTONY*

[SamLad]

a new feeling for me -- I'm so glad MU exist right now   

[HomesickRed]

The gift keeps giving, on AND OFF THE PITCH:

Charity urges Manchester United to get tough with 'scumbags' allegedly posing as disabled fans to get tickets


https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/charity-urges-manchester-united-tough-29099670


“This behaviour cannot be tolerated, and the club must take action to ensure that tickets for disabled fans go to disabled fans"

A charity has urged Manchester United to treat allegations that tickets meant for disabled fans are being misued with "extreme severity". The club are taking action to stop "scumbag" fans who have allegedly pretended to be disabled in order to get access to away games this season. Some able-bodied fans have sat in wheelchairs in order to see a match, it is claimed.

At every away fixture the Reds are given dedicated wheelchair spaces. But, as reported in the Manchester Evening News, Chas Banks, secretary of the Manchester United Disabled Supporters' Association, delivered a scathing attack on those he claimed have abused these tickets.

At a Fans Forum meeting he said there had been "widespread misuse" of the tickets by a group of disabled fans. They have been passed to non-disabled supporters directly or via a third party in breach of the club's ticket rules.

Yesterday a club spokesman said they were working with the Manchester United Disabled Supporters' Association and introducing ID checks when issuing tickets to stamp out the practice.

Mr Banks told a meeting of the Fans Forum: "Unfortunately, this corrupt practice has spread to the point where able-bodied fans have been getting hold of wheelchair tickets. Of course, these tickets can only have come from someone who is a qualifying wheelchair Season Ticket holder. Whether they passed them on themselves, or through a third party, is hard to tell.

"But I have seen with my own eyes, evidence of these scumbags doing this, and I have the photos. To the extent of them twice having been seen watching the match, whilst sitting in a wheelchair on the wheelchair platform, and then the next game, being seen standing in the able-bodied section bouncing up and down when United score a goal."

Now the charity, Level Playing Field , which acts as a campaigning and advisory organisation to its membership and other parties across all sports, has spoken of its concern over the alleged scam.

Manchester United's Old Trafford ground. An alleged scam in which tickets for disabled Reds fans at away matches are being misused has caused anger.
Manchester United's Old Trafford ground. An alleged scam in which tickets for disabled Reds fans at away matches are being misused has caused anger. (Image: ASP)
In a statement the charity said: "Level Playing Field is aware of serious allegations in relation to the misuse of wheelchair user tickets at Manchester United away fixtures. Exploitation of tickets for disabled fans by nondisabled fans has the potential to deny disabled fans from accessing matches altogether, increase the suspicion and discrimination fans with nonvisible disabilities face and likely result in changes to processes which could impose additional barriers to disabled fans following their club.

"Allegations must be evidence based and the club needs to take action to ensure the system cannot be exploited. The potential for an issue such as this to arise is exasperated by issues around accessibility in many away ends, as raised by disabled fans through Level Playing Field’s Annual Fan Surveys."

Chair of Level Playing Field, Tony Taylor, said: “These allegations must be treated with extreme severity. Abuse of ticketing for disabled fans by non-disabled fans can directly deny opportunities to attend live sport and also sets us back so far on education around disability.

“Some of the rhetoric surrounding these reports online has been appalling. I myself am a part-time wheelchair user and will sometimes be seen using crutches instead. Misunderstanding of that is widespread and if non-disabled fans exploit ticketing for disabled fans, they increase suspicion and discrimination there, as well as for fans with nonvisible disabilities and those who may have fluctuating disabilities, in addition to directly denying access to the matchday through their selfishness.

“This behaviour cannot be tolerated, and the club must take action to ensure that tickets for disabled fans go to disabled fans. Disabled supporters with concerns around access and ticketing can contact Level Playing Field: info@levelplayingfield.org.uk

Note, it is unclear whether the problem is with people posing as disabled to get tickets is the problem, or it is genuine disabled ticket holders giving tickets to friends, (which I don't have a problem with).

Strange though, because in general, it is even harder to get a wheelchair ticket than a normal ticket!

[Kopenhagen]

Wow, that's a unique level of scumbag.

[Brian Blessed]

TBF, we probably have fans pulling the same trick.

[HomesickRed]

TBF, we probably have fans pulling the same trick.

Probably.
However I'm just surprised that anyone would go to those lengths to see the utter shitness that is Man U of recent years!
Also, I have no problem with disabled fans giving tickets to friends, disabled, or able-bodied.

[rob1966]

Probably.
However I'm just surprised that anyone would go to those lengths to see the utter shitness that is Man U of recent years!
Also, I have no problem with disabled fans giving tickets to friends, disabled, or able-bodied.

That's the bit they have an issue with here though, that disabled tickets are ending up with able bodied fans and that the able bodied are going the game in a wheelchair and pretending they are disabled. If a disabled supporter cannot use their ticket, then as far as I'm concerned, that ticket should only go to another genuinely disabled supporter. There's only a small number of wheelchair spaces at OT, 278 according to their website, so its unfair and to be honest a c*nts trick to take one of those spaces when you aren't a wheelchair user.

[HomesickRed]

That's the bit they have an issue with here though, that disabled tickets are ending up with able bodied fans and that the able bodied are going the game in a wheelchair and pretending they are disabled. If a disabled supporter cannot use their ticket, then as far as I'm concerned, that ticket should only go to another genuinely disabled supporter. There's only a small number of wheelchair spaces at OT, 278 according to their website, so its unfair and to be honest a c*nts trick to take one of those spaces when you aren't a wheelchair user.

You might be missing the bigger picture though, one that is overlooked by everyone in this case.

Consider your statement:

If a disabled supporter cannot use their ticket, then as far as I'm concerned, that ticket should only go to another genuinely disabled supporter

Would you get away with saying that every other social minority can only transfer within their own minority pool? Black to black? Gay to gay? Women to women etc etc?

Every other social minority can give their tickets away to whoever they like, (in accordance to the regs applicable to all ticket holders). Wheelchair users cannot.
If I am a wheelchair user, I should be able to do as others are doing -- give my ticket to a friend, whether they are able-bodied or not. That's equality isn't it?
Otherwise you end up in a situation where you have a valid, paid for ticket that you can't make the game for, but you can't give it away to a friend or family member either.
So you end up, over the course of a season wasting a lot of money.
UEFA anticipate this and advocate 'flexible' seating in wheelchair bays. However clubs like LFC won't do this.
If these people in the article in question then have to masquerade as 'disabled', then that is the fault of clubs, because they refuse to put flexible seating in place. They are victims, rather than scammers.

[Brian Blessed]

That's the bit they have an issue with here though, that disabled tickets are ending up with able bodied fans and that the able bodied are going the game in a wheelchair and pretending they are disabled. If a disabled supporter cannot use their ticket, then as far as I'm concerned, that ticket should only go to another genuinely disabled supporter. There's only a small number of wheelchair spaces at OT, 278 according to their website, so its unfair and to be honest a c*nts trick to take one of those spaces when you aren't a wheelchair user.

A bigger issue in the article is the away spots. Which must be what, 10-20 in most grounds?

[Enders]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cz74jgj8ej1o

Funniest thing I've read all day

[rob1966]

You might be missing the bigger picture though, one that is overlooked by everyone in this case.

Consider your statement:

If a disabled supporter cannot use their ticket, then as far as I'm concerned, that ticket should only go to another genuinely disabled supporter

Would you get away with saying that every other social minority can only transfer within their own minority pool? Black to black? Gay to gay? Women to women etc etc?

Every other social minority can give their tickets away to whoever they like, (in accordance to the regs applicable to all ticket holders). Wheelchair users cannot.
If I am a wheelchair user, I should be able to do as others are doing -- give my ticket to a friend, whether they are able-bodied or not. That's equality isn't it?
Otherwise you end up in a situation where you have a valid, paid for ticket that you can't make the game for, but you can't give it away to a friend or family member either.
So you end up, over the course of a season wasting a lot of money.
UEFA anticipate this and advocate 'flexible' seating in wheelchair bays. However clubs like LFC won't do this.
If these people in the article in question then have to masquerade as 'disabled', then that is the fault of clubs, because they refuse to put flexible seating in place. They are victims, rather than scammers.

Are you taking the fucking piss? Any one of those groups of people can get one of the 78,000 tickets available, wheelchair users have access to 270 spaces and that is it.

Do you see people pretending they're gay or black after getting their ticket? Because able bodied fans are turning up in wheelchairs to use the ticket

[Brian Blessed]

Also, they wouldn’t lose money, as ideally the club would take the ticket back for a full refund, and then redistribute.

[SamLad]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cz74jgj8ej1o

Funniest thing I've read all day

well they did get one right.  Evans.

[HomesickRed]

Are you taking the fucking piss? Any one of those groups of people can get one of the 78,000 tickets available, wheelchair users have access to 270 spaces and that is it.

Do you see people pretending they're gay or black after getting their ticket? Because able bodied fans are turning up in wheelchairs to use the ticket

Taking the piss? If your argument is that there aren't enough wheelchair spaces then that's a different argument altogether.
If people are masquerading to obtain tickets by deception that's unacceptable.
You think disabled people wishing to pass there own, legitimate tickets, to family and friends is taking the piss? Yes or no?

[HomesickRed]

Also, they wouldn’t lose money, as ideally the club would take the ticket back for a full refund, and then redistribute.

Doesn't happen and it's not the point. Able-bodied supporters wouldn't accept that if they wished to transfer to family and friends. It's about treating all fans the same.

This isn't the right thread though, I guess, when its supposed to be for taking the piss out of Utd!

[smutchin]

It's about treating all fans the same.

Sometimes you need to treat people differently to achieve fairness. Worth educating yourself on the difference between equality and equity.

[4pool]

You think disabled people wishing to pass there own, legitimate tickets, to family and friends is taking the piss? Yes or no?

Yes.

If I was disabled and applying for a ticket, then shut out, and then find out an able-bodied person took up the allocation, I would be pissed off. Makes no odds how the able-bodied person got the ticket, the "classification" on the ticket is disabled. If an able-bodied person has to scam the system by using a wheelchair to use the ticket, doesn't that say something?


Edit: What LFC disabled requirements are.

Disabled supporters must register their disability with Liverpool Football Club in order to purchase tickets at the disabled concessionary rate.
 
To register as a disabled supporter with us, you must submit one of the following documents via email

A letter from the Department of Works and Pensions confirming your entitlement to the higher or middle rate mobility/care component of Disability Living Allowance.
A letter from your GP confirming the nature of your disability
A letter confirming you receive Enhanced rate of Personal Independent Payment (PIP)
BD8 Certificate (Visually Impaired supporters only)

AND

Photographic ID (i.e. Passport or Drivers License showing your date of birth)

[GreatEx]

Exactly. I'm sure HSR means well, but this is the very definition of false equivalence. Wheelchair spots are for wheelchair users and their carers if needed, no ifs or buts.

[Samie]

 

https://twitter.com/AdamCrafton_/status/1786432696010358837

All Manchester United staff receive email in which Sir Jim Ratcliffe called tidiness of Old Trafford and Carrington a “disgrace” - saying he witnessed things this week he wouldn’t expect to see at a chemical company such as INEOS.

[PaulF]

He's all carrot and big hugs isn't he.

[Hazell]

https://twitter.com/AdamCrafton_/status/1786432696010358837

If only him amd INEOS applied that attitude to the planet.

[rafathegaffa83]

To be fair, I'd expect a chemical company to have higher standards of cleanliness than a football club.

[GreatEx]

How it ends for ten Hag under the new regime:


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/6gucQVo9O5Y" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/6gucQVo9O5Y</a>

[BarryCrocker]

To be fair, I'd expect a chemical company to have higher standards of cleanliness than a football club.

They've had to clean Manchester up before:

Weston Point-based Ineos ChlorVinyls Limited was fined £166,650 after it admitted accidentally releasing caustic soda into the Manchester Ship Canal.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/runcorn-chemical-giant-loses-appeal-10992836