Topic: The Real Ronaldo

[XabiArt]

This Barca team would beat the galacticos no problem.

[Chris~]

Doesn't it have more to do with the tactics used in football these days, really?

I mean football is way more attacking and the top teams score more each season because of it. So if one of those big teams is attacking by default and racking up 4-0 plus scorelines regularly, it makes sense players likes C.Ronaldo and Messi will score twice as many goals in todays games than they would have 20 years ago.

Or the attacking players are better now.

[CrasherKid79]

Or the attacking players are better now.

Nah

Name me a world class centre back then in todays game that would be in the hall of fame ?

[Chakan]

Nah

Name me a world class centre back then in todays game that would be in the hall of fame ?

Puyol?

[kaz1983]

Well more goals are being scored that is for sure. Defenses are easier to score against. It could just be down to the shift to lone striker formations and the big teams getting bigger, whilst the rest stand still or get poorer in some cases. A player at a big club who has the ability to do it all, start every match -not need to be rested, they are reliable players not out for a few matches with niggles on a regular basis.. players who can take the freekicks and penalties.. that as well as teams looking to defend a point against said teams, these players if they have a quality midfield behind them -i.e. that can unlock said defense.. lots chances can be created, lots of goals can be scored but you gotta have the quality to do it.

[CrasherKid79]

This Barca team would beat the galacticos no problem.

...... says the Barcelona fan 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

...... says the Barcelona fan 

they probably would though

[thisyearisouryear]

The greatest striker to ever grace the game for me. What a player he was!
Of course CR beats him in terms of longevity which is down to him being a better athlete but athleticism is just one aspect of being a footballer. Calling him fake is stupid though. He has also achieved things which hardly anyone has.

But at their respective peaks R9 was at a different level.

Having said that, I also accept I will always be biased as a complete fan boy. Ronaldo made me fall in love with the game

A good compilation of quotes on Ronaldo by peers. He was God to an entire generation of supremely talented players. Just have a read:

https://arjyomitra94.wordpress.com/2015/08/28/quotes-on-ronaldo-il-fenomeno-luis-nazario-de-lima/

PS. Also, when Zlatan unabashedly reveres a player, there has to be something phenomenal about him

[Tomaldinho]

PS. Also, when Zlatan unabashedly reveres a player, there has to be something phenomenal about him

Or this guy.....



"sans hesitation...."

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tea20qaiYl4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Tea20qaiYl4</a>

"Why...."

[XabiArt]

...... says the Barcelona fan 

I'm a Barca fan? Pretty sure I support Liverpool.

[CrasherKid79]

I'm a Barca fan? Pretty sure I support Liverpool.

ahh ...  I misread Xabi as Xavi so assumed ... my bad

[kaz1983]

Maybe it's to do with the fact Ronaldo produced the goods for various different teams in three different leagues?

The style of football didn't matter as he scored goals where ever he went. Then you got the fact he scored consistently for Brazil, in his first match for them he was playing alongside Jorginho and Dunga .. which is funny in itself haha but shows that no matter the team or the way it plays, the type of football -he scored goals.. that is one thing the Brazilian Ronaldo has on Messi imho...

I think it's fair to say that Messi hasn't had to adapt to a new league.. a new style of play... the goals Ronaldo scored for PSV were very similar to a lot of his goals for Barcelona and Inter Milan. He came deep to get on the ball and start attacks a lot more than I remember, Ronaldo could have been an attacking midfield, a number 10 if you like - quite easily imo and he would not of look out of play.

He was the first forward - up until then - to score 30+ goals in a single season, for 70 odd years or something.

[Coolie High]

he who fannies about and dives around isn't better than the real Romaldo anymore than Platini is better than Maradona, if we're judging it solely on goals then the likes of Cruyff Maradona Franx wouldn't be in the top 5 while Gerd Muller  and co would.

[Coolie High]

He's right though.

Blame everything to injuries and lifestyle or whatever circumstances - talent is worth nothing without the application.

Is Ronaldo more talented? No one will ever know as he's never reached the same heights as Cristiano Ronaldo even if the latter is considered less of a phenom. Would Gerrard be a player of a generation if Houllier had a lousy eye for talent and sold him to Everton?

Is Ronaldo more talented? No one will ever know? Unless you saw both of them play, how one can say he who fannies about and dives around is more talented is pretty much beyond me, accomplishments and talent are two different things.

[Coolie High]

Football is judged by what happens on a pitch, not a hypothetical situation in somebody's head.

Cristiano Ronaldo has consistently delivered at a level higher than Ronaldo ever did.

Ronaldo was incredible for his time, Messi and Cristiano changed the entire game when it came to judging forwards.

Laughable considering R9 did that a decade before.

[Gerry Attrick]

Please stop using he who fannies about and dives around and R9, it makes me cringe.

[Coolie High]

Please stop using he who fannies about and dives around and R9, it makes me cringe.

It's just me being lazy, soz.

[Mr Dilkington]

People still underrate Cristiano Ronaldo. As mad as that is, they do. Before I carry on, I'll say that the original Ronaldo is the best striker I've ever seen. In terms of pure talent he was better than Cristiano Ronaldo, but..


Throughout his whole career he won 1 league title. One. In 15 years. He's also never won the Champions League. In the year he won his league title he was 2nd top goalscorer with 23 goals, 6 behind Roy Makaay, but it wasn't a very strong league, Madrid won it on 78 points and Barcelona finished 6th with 56 points.

This is in comparison to Cristiano Ronaldo who has won 4 league titles. In his best league season at United he scored 31 league goals (the year they won the League and Champions League double). In his league winning season at Madrid he scored 46 league goals and racked up 12 assists. Ronaldo has also won 2 Champions League finals, scoring in both, as well as losing another.

My argument is that Cristiano Ronaldo has been so freakishly good that people have become numb to his achievements - perhaps his personality, the Messi comparison and the way he plays contributes to that too but in terms of achievements he is in a different league to Ronaldo.

The year United won the Champions League Ronaldo won the golden boot, scoring 8. Scored vs Lyon in the last 16, scored vs Roma in the quarter final, missed a penalty vs Barca in the semi and then scored the opener vs Chelsea in the final.

The year Madrid won the Champions League Ronaldo won the golden boot, scoring 17. SEVENTEEN. He scored 4 against Schalke in the last 16, he scored vs Dortmund in the quarter final, he scored 2 goals vs Bayern in the semi final and then scored vs Atletico Madrid in the final.

In total, Cristiano Ronaldo has played 126 Champions League games, scoring 90 goals - and he didn't even score in his first 30 Champions League games so from there he's got 90 goals in 96 games. Scoring rate of 0.71 goals a game.

Ronaldo in comparison scored 36 goals in 84 games in European competitions (Champions League, UEFA cup, Cup winners cup). Scoring rate of 0.42 goals a game.


For Sporting, United and Madrid, Cristiano Ronaldo has played 446 league games, scoring 334 goals. A rate of 0.75 goals a game.

For PSV, Barcelona, Inter and Madrid, Ronaldo played 278 games, scoring 208 goals. A rate of 0.75 goals a game.

So in European terms, Cristiano Ronaldo has a far better record in terms of goals and trophies.

In league terms, Cristiano Ronaldo has an identical record in terms of goals and a far better record in terms of trophies won.


In terms of International record, Cristiano Ronaldo has played 123 times, scoring 55 goals. A scoring rate of 0.45 goals a game.

Ronaldo has an impressive record of 98 games played, 62 goals scored. A scoring rate of 0.62 goals a game.

So in International terms, Ronaldo has outperformed Cristiano Ronaldo on all fronts, goals and trophies. However it must be taken into account there is a huge gulf between Ronaldinho and Rivaldo and Nani and Helder Postiga.


In total, Cristiano Ronaldo has scored more goals, made more goals, played more games, won more trophies.

Ronaldo won 12 major trophies in total (including International trophies)

Cristiano Ronaldo has won 16 major trophies and counting.


Another thing to consider is that Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 15 goals vs what is perhaps the best club side of all time. He's scored a Copa Del Rey winning header and a league winning goal at the Camp Nou.

Also in his time at Real Madrid his record vs Bayern in the Champions League is 4 goals in 4 games. Both semi finals.

[Coolie High]

He's not underrated not at all, where do you want people to rate him next to Pele, Maradona Messi? And if keeping up with the greatest of all time is the reason to be rated higher then Platini should pop up more in these discussions because he did the exact same thing in regards to Maradona and out scored him in the 80s while at it too, there's a lack of imagination and beauty that Cristiano has lost in his pursuit to keep up with Messi, that will count against him, when we get to these lofty heights it starts to become less about how many goals you scored and more about moments and the beauty you invoke with your feet while still contributing goals wise.

After all I remember he who fannies about and dives around scoring goals in every lockout stage on the way to Cl but I also remember Modric and Di Maria having to bail him out due to his no show in the final, when it's all said and done the most popular widely argued best player in the world till a few years ago can't be underrated, quite the opposite.. Would write a better more detailed post if not writing this  on the phone,

[Mr Dilkington]

He's not underrated not at all, where do you want people to rate him next to Pele, Maradona Messi? And if keeping up with the greatest of all time is the reason to be rated higher then Platini should pop up more in these discussions because he did the exact same thing in regards to Maradona and out scored him in the 80s while at it too, there's a lack of imagination and beauty that Cristiano has lost in his pursuit to keep up with Messi, that will count against him, when we get to these lofty heights it starts to become less about how many goals you scored and more about moments and the beauty you invoke with your feet while still contributing goals wise.

After all I remember he who fannies about and dives around scoring goals in every lockout stage on the way to Cl but I also remember Modric and Di Maria having to bail him out due to his no show in the final, when it's all said and done the most popular widely argued best player in the world till a few years ago can't be underrated, quite the opposite.. Would write a better more detailed post if not writing this  on the phone,

1. I didn't say anything about him keeping up with Messi.
2. Platini should be in the discussions.
3. My post was about Ronaldo vs Cristiano Ronaldo.

[Gerry Attrick]

It's just me being lazy, soz.

Wasn't aimed at you, just seen it bandied about in here a bit and it grates 

[C]

People still underrate Cristiano Ronaldo.

On the moon?

[Mr Dilkington]

On the moon?

Never been mate so I couldn't tell you.

[Xxavi]

Both Cristiano and Messi have failed at major tournaments for their country, real Ronaldo bossed it. Could have been even better if he didn't get so many long term injuries but in full flight with that power and control, puts these tippy tappy players of today to shame.
Real Madrid had Zidane Figo Raul and Ronaldo at one stage, some of the football was absolute magic, in a one off game  this Barca team wouldn't live with them.

This is a laughable assertion. Let alone this Barca, that Madrid team with Zidane, Figo, Raul and Ronaldo weren't destroying everybody in La Liga back then. One off game? That's a nothing statement, in a one off game this Barca team also lost to Sevilla and Celta. So what? Any team can lose, that indicates nothing.

I was a huge Ronaldo fan growing up, and I think he is far more talented than Cristiano Ronaldo. However, regarding Ronaldo's performances in world cups, let's not re-write the history and make it sound like he won it by himself. Ronaldo played during (one of) the Golden Age of Brazilian football. There were world class players like Elber who weren't called up for NT those days. In other words, Brazil had the best squad with or without Ronaldo, though Ronaldo was their crown jewel, especially in 1998. But they didn't win it in 1998, did they?

And what about WC2002? Again, you can hardly claim that Ronaldo was the ultimate reason Brazil won. It was a superb story, and it made headlines since he came back from injury and looked great, but I'd argue Rivaldo was Brazil's best player. Additionally, 2002WC is the worst one in my memory in terms of quality. Brazil played the likes of Turkey on their way to final, and in the final game, they faced a Germany team that had 1 world class player. The Germany team that was going downhill. If we are to look at things beyond stats, you'd have to admit that Turkey and South Korea in semis of the world cup that year was an indication of the poor quality of the tourney.

[Halcyon Lissome]

I grew up in the R9 era and he was probably one of the main reasons that took my interest in football to another level. Pre-injuries, it almost seemed like "give the ball to Ronaldo, he'll create a goal". But it's just not even funny how underrated he who fannies about and dives around is. At this point, he is comfortably ahead of the Brazilian. Like, it's cute and all that to dismiss stats, but it's just so heavily in Cristiano's favour that it's almost silly arguing it.

And you know what? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that Suarez is even better than Brazilian Ronaldo. More goals, more assists, and a more tireless worker who bleeds for his team. Without Messi and Ronaldo, Suarez would be winning the Fifa POTY awards. Heck, Neymar will eclipse R9 too. We're in a bit of a golden generation in terms of attacking talent I feel.

Messi is the greatest, if Cristiano didn't exist he'd probably have won 7 straight POTY awards. Which goes to show you how great Cristiano is that he's denied him 3 times. I think at most there are 2-3 players in history who can compete with Messi, and Cristiano did it at Messi's peak years too.

It's time to recognise Cristiano Ronaldo also in the top handful for the greatest of all time. Right now we see him a bit petulant, an individualist in some ways, and it's fashionable to contrast him (and Real) to Messi (and Barca) negatively but it might be only when he retires and in hindsight we look back at his utterly crazy goals and realise just how great he was. There's something to be said about someone with such strong belief and will to turn himself into one of the greatest players to ever step onto the pitch; and to never give up and compete even when the guy/team across you is the greatest ever.

[Coolie High]

I grew up in the R9 era and he was probably one of the main reasons that took my interest in football to another level. Pre-injuries, it almost seemed like "give the ball to Ronaldo, he'll create a goal". But it's just not even funny how underrated he who fannies about and dives around is. At this point, he is comfortably ahead of the Brazilian. Like, it's cute and all that to dismiss stats, but it's just so heavily in Cristiano's favour that it's almost silly arguing it.

And you know what? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that Suarez is even better than Brazilian Ronaldo. More goals, more assists, and a more tireless worker who bleeds for his team. Without Messi and Ronaldo, Suarez would be winning the Fifa POTY awards. Heck, Neymar will eclipse R9 too. We're in a bit of a golden generation in terms of attacking talent I feel.

Messi is the greatest, if Cristiano didn't exist he'd probably have won 7 straight POTY awards. Which goes to show you how great Cristiano is that he's denied him 3 times. I think at most there are 2-3 players in history who can compete with Messi, and Cristiano did it at Messi's peak years too.

It's time to recognise Cristiano Ronaldo also in the top handful for the greatest of all time. Right now we see him a bit petulant, an individualist in some ways, and it's fashionable to contrast him (and Real) to Messi (and Barca) negatively but it might be only when he retires and in hindsight we look back at his utterly crazy goals and realise just how great he was. There's something to be said about someone with such strong belief and will to turn himself into one of the greatest players to ever step onto the pitch; and to never give up and compete even when the guy/team across you is the greatest ever.

Who are these 2-3 players who could keep up with messi ?

[Yiannis]

Please stop using he who fannies about and dives around and R9, it makes me cringe.

EPL

[CrasherKid79]

EPL

Could R9 and he who fannies about and dives around do it on a cold Wednesday night against WBA in the EPL tho? 

It's a revolving argument anyway. The stat fans will argue for Cristiano and football romantics Ronaldo. Think we can all agree they are both mustard !!!

[Halcyon Lissome]

Who are these 2-3 players who could keep up with messi ?

I, personally, don't think anyone can. Even when Cristiano is rivalling him in terms of numbers he isn't in terms of all-round influence. But what I meant that is Messi in some years hasn't been 'peak' Messi - which is still arguably the greatest player in the world - and that at this lower level there are some players you could argue could have been on his level for a few years if their careers had played out in the same era.

I think historically you're looking at players like Pele, Maradona or Cryuff (probably others you could argue I guess) but I think modern football has Suarez and Neymar for 1-2 years; Cristiano on his heels for even more years...and that's it. Whole-career-wise I don't think anyone comes close, frankly. He's that far ahead in his sport as Gretzky was in his.

[Coolie High]

I, personally, don't think anyone can. Even when Cristiano is rivalling him in terms of numbers he isn't in terms of all-round influence. But what I meant that is Messi in some years hasn't been 'peak' Messi - which is still arguably the greatest player in the world - and that at this lower level there are some players you could argue could have been on his level for a few years if their careers had played out in the same era.

I think historically you're looking at players like Pele, Maradona or Cryuff (probably others you could argue I guess) but I think modern football has Suarez and Neymar for 1-2 years; Cristiano on his heels for even more years...and that's it. Whole-career-wise I don't think anyone comes close, frankly. He's that far ahead in his sport as Gretzky was in his.

But Platini kept up with Maradona, and Brazilian fans would tell you Garrincha kept up with Pele, there are a few players who kept up with the Greatest players of all time who won't be adorned in top 5 lists or as heralded as the aforementioned. Historically Pele was the closest to Messi, he was 2nd top goals corer in the World Cup at 17.

[CrasherKid79]

And you know what? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that Suarez is even better than Brazilian Ronaldo.

Not in a million years !

[Ken-Obi]

Not in a million years !

Agreed. It took less than 10 years.

[clinical]

Christiano Ronaldo is a fantastic player. One of the all time greats no doubt. But he's on the decline now slowly and it's hurtinf him personally i think.

[Halcyon Lissome]

But Platini kept up with Maradona, and Brazilian fans would tell you Garrincha kept up with Pele, there are a few players who kept up with the Greatest players of all time who won't be adorned in top 5 lists or as heralded as the aforementioned. Historically Pele was the closest to Messi, he was 2nd top goals corer in the World Cup at 17.

I agree with you that both Platini and Garrincha are underrated. That if you wanted to actually sit down and discuss it they are amongst the greats too.

I don't think Cristiano will be underrated in that way though. He is a huge name himself, he is not gonna be outshone like those guys were. He's arguably even more marketable/popular in the global sphere.

[CrasherKid79]

Agreed. It took less than 10 years.

So Suarez a player lacking raw pace and  (truly) clinical finishing is now better than arguably the greatest natural striker in history? Only on a Liverpool forum would a statement like that be made and supported with a straight face.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Messi's done at the very top (personal level, not the professional game), that acceleration isn't the same. Cristiano Ronaldo's the same. Their technical quality and especially in Ronnie's case the team he plays for ensures they'll still get the numbers but this part of a player's career bores me really. The top players playing at their best from those teams are Neymar, Suarez and Bale when he's fit.

You can talk numbers, trophies, contributions, you would be right but personally I find it laughable to see mentions of Cristiano alongside Ronaldo in terms of pure ability. Cristiano, the Utd version, could be penetrative, but he had to work a lot to create that with his stepovers, moves etc. Cristiano the Real version was / is mainly a striker posing as a 2nd line player. THE Ronaldo, for a while combined that pure penetration Messi and Maradona had at their best with the physique and sheer pace of a physical monster. In my life I have never seen anything like that at his best, I doubt I will again.

Cristiano's the kid finishing 6th in class who works and works and stays healthy and gets the awards. We all know he's just repetition. The no1 shone for a while like no one ever has before and then went on his way. That originality is what I find interesting.
 

[_00_deathscar]

This Barca team would beat the galacticos no problem.

It's a crazy, crazy shout. I reckon that Galacticos team would have been thumped by our 08-09 team. They were great on their day, but I wouldn't put my money on them no way - definitely not to beat the current or Guardiola Barca.

[_00_deathscar]

Not in a million years !

It's a mad shout again. I like Suarez, I really do - but if we are comparing their individual peaks, no. Just no.

Messi's done at the very top (personal level, not the professional game), that acceleration isn't the same. Cristiano Ronaldo's the same. Their technical quality and especially in Ronnie's case the team he plays for ensures they'll still get the numbers but this part of a player's career bores me really. The top players playing at their best from those teams are Neymar, Suarez and Bale when he's fit.

You can talk numbers, trophies, contributions, you would be right but personally I find it laughable to see mentions of Cristiano alongside Ronaldo in terms of pure ability. Cristiano, the Utd version, could be penetrative, but he had to work a lot to create that with his stepovers, moves etc. Cristiano the Real version was / is mainly a striker posing as a 2nd line player. THE Ronaldo, for a while combined that pure penetration Messi and Maradona had at their best with the physique and sheer pace of a physical monster. In my life I have never seen anything like that at his best, I doubt I will again.

Cristiano's the kid finishing 6th in class who works and works and stays healthy and gets the awards. We all know he's just repetition. The no1 shone for a while like no one ever has before and then went on his way. That originality is what I find interesting.
 

Agree to an extent - think Messi in many ways is more influential now than he was. Earlier he was both the focal point of the attack as well as the string puller (to an extent). He's much more of a string puller now with two deadly players ahead of him.

And in your post you could replace (to an extent again) Ronaldo with Ronaldinho. Those 'natural talent' they had was insane.

The problem is that its this very 'natural talent' that is not a definable quality. You can't slap statistics and numbers on it, regardless of how skewed in the other favour (goals/assists for Messi and C. Ronaldo) are, it's this VERY quality - the ethereal, mystical, romantic - that makes football what it is.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Messi's acceleration is still there you numpty, it's barely been half a year since he scored the best dribbling goal that the Spanish cup has ever seen. He conserves energy a lot more.

[Samie]

Messi's done at the very top (personal level, not the professional game), that acceleration isn't the same. Cristiano Ronaldo's the same. Their technical quality and especially in Ronnie's case the team he plays for ensures they'll still get the numbers but this part of a player's career bores me really. The top players playing at their best from those teams are Neymar, Suarez and Bale when he's fit.

You can talk numbers, trophies, contributions, you would be right but personally I find it laughable to see mentions of Cristiano alongside Ronaldo in terms of pure ability. Cristiano, the Utd version, could be penetrative, but he had to work a lot to create that with his stepovers, moves etc. Cristiano the Real version was / is mainly a striker posing as a 2nd line player. THE Ronaldo, for a while combined that pure penetration Messi and Maradona had at their best with the physique and sheer pace of a physical monster. In my life I have never seen anything like that at his best, I doubt I will again.

Cristiano's the kid finishing 6th in class who works and works and stays healthy and gets the awards. We all know he's just repetition. The no1 shone for a while like no one ever has before and then went on his way. That originality is what I find interesting.

Spot on mate.

And in your post you could replace (to an extent again) Ronaldo with Ronaldinho. Those 'natural talent' they had was insane.

The problem is that its this very 'natural talent' that is not a definable quality. You can't slap statistics and numbers on it, regardless of how skewed in the other favour (goals/assists for Messi and C. Ronaldo) are, it's this VERY quality - the ethereal, mystical, romantic - that makes football what it is.

You too mate.  The way it's going now even in Brazilian football there won't be players like those two for a very long time.