Author Topic: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop  (Read 38123 times)

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2011, 12:58:55 pm »
Our rightful distaste for G&H has led to unintended consequences. The Messianic status conferred on Rafa was impossible for him to live up to,the opprobrium heaped on Roy undeserved, and now the legend of Kenny has been resurrected and been overblown creating  much risk even though his welcome return has sated the appetite of the attack dogs - for now.

We wanted "Anyone but G&H" - we got them. We wanted anyone but Roy. We got him. The inexperience of FSG and the ring rustiness of Kenny have been understated by many. Yet both of them offer us a chance, and both are better than we had before.

We have made our bed - time to lie on it for a bit.

Sweet Jesus - read the topic and have a rethink on your post.

This time last week Kenny was on a boat getting lashed.  This is his fifth day back.  5 days!  He's had the Mancs away in which we were robbed by a bent referee and played 60 minutes with 10 men and Blackpool away, which, with injuries and suspensions was far from easy.

Imagine the world if every employer viewed its employees after 5 days and said "Few! He's sh!te"

In a roundabout way you are being both positive and negative in one post.  "Roy wasn't bad.  Kenny is a bit better but is rusty. Does offer us hope though".

Check the realities out

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2011, 12:59:22 pm »
The war is over time to lay down your weapons and get right behind the manager, players and owners.

Yes indeed

Offline macca_no11

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2011, 12:59:35 pm »
Quality OP, especially the following parts:

We lose to a Blackpool team formed on teamwork, passion, togetherness and all for about one year of Steven Gerrardís salary, yet people believe new players are the answer.

Let me tell you, 30 minutes of our football last night showed me the difference Kenny has already brought to the team in terms of passing, movement, pressurising and possession, more than Roy managed to do in his entire time at Liverpool. Regardless of the result, there are already signs of improvement, yet for many itís still not enough.

Our club is in a HEALTHY position again. Yes, thatís right, HEALTHY. We have little or no debt, which means with or without Champions League football we have a profit margin every year most clubs would kill for. We have a squad blessed with internationals who under the right guidance have shown they can play. We have a manager who believes in this club and knows how it should be run, and will be instrumental in our future whether itís with him at the helm or someone else, and we have owners who have already gone some way in their six months of ownership to show willingness in not just re-engaging the supporters but running the club privately, quietly and professionally. Yet this still isnít enough for many of you?

All through the mess of the G&H regime and its aftermath, I've said that all I want is for our club to moving in the right direction again. I don't need instant success or Man City-esque amounts of cash being thrown around, just the assurance that we have owners, a board, and a manager who all understand the club (or at least want to) and are all moving towards a common objective in sensible ways. For the first time in years I feel that this is the case now. For the first time since Rafa left I actually enjoyed watching a game and felt completely engaged in it, even if the result wasn't a good one. I can feel the difference already, so I'm willing to be patient when it comes to results.

Offline macca_no11

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2011, 01:00:24 pm »
Saw this in another thread - thought it answered OP question :wave


That's a top quality post too - beautifully sums up how I've been feeling.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2011, 01:02:27 pm »
I know we're not playing at our best right now but if we can't catch fucking Sunderland by the end of the season in this shite league then we may all as well accept that the game is up for LFC.

 
I dont know tha lads posting history well enough to know whether this is a brilliant parody or its just another poster whose name should appear on the wall of shame?
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Offline MiserableP15

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2011, 01:05:07 pm »
Thanks to dernaroy to adding to the OP. It's much appreciated. And to robbie and robotforaday for that quality post on fans unity.

And to the others, my points are pretty simple. Everyone expecting overnight success after what's happened is simply deluded. I keep going back to that goal Kenny created. There was something about it that screamed teamplay, intuition, intelligence, and quality. That doesn't happen overnight. Now that hopefully all the problems are behind us, we really should not be worrying about the fact that NESV sacked Roy a MONTH too late. That to me is nitpicking of the highest degree, and the sort of short-term, knee-jerkism I'm referring to. It's the same thing that got Rafa sacked after one bad season, it's the same thing that caused people to start doubting and backstabbing after Kenny's first league defeat last night.

Blackpool have showed us what stability can do for a club where everyone is pulling in the right direction. Liverpool as a club has always depended on its fans. Shankly spoke of it, the players have spoken of it, we know it. The Kop wasn't called the original 12th man for nothing. We need to get back to that.

My view is that we've done our bit. It's over, it's worked, but that's it. Anything so negative now is simply reactionary and a hangover of the past 12 months, and in many ways unfair. We played some good stuff last night, in trying circumstances, and the green shoots of recovery were there for all to see. It may not happen next season, or the one after that, but with the financial stability we now have, the money that WILL be available for the manager now we're not servicing massive interest payments, there will be a time when we are challenging again. The sooner we as fans realise that and start unitedly supporting the club again, the quicker that will happen.
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Offline Much-Hyppia-Now

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2011, 01:08:10 pm »
Great OP, agree with a lot the comments.

I vacillate between thinking we just need to get some confidence back into the players and some reorganisation, along with a few quality additions, to thinking that we need to get rid of at least half this squad, blood some of the youngters through sooner than we were going to, and basically have a complete root and branch overhaul of the playing staff. There are just too many players either not giving enough or shouldn't be anywhere near this club in the first place,  Poulsen, N.gog, Javanoic, Mereiles, Konch spring to mind. These are stopping our youth players coming through.

If I'm honest, I don't really know what I think anymore. Relegation dog fight between now and end of the season appears to be on the cards.

Offline SmallwoodRed

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2011, 01:11:26 pm »
I understand that most people will be dissapointed with a defeat last night but i actually thought the main reason we lost was due to our innability to complete our passing moves in the last 3rd of the field.
That is largely due to the lack of depth in attacking midfield that has been a problem even when we had alonso.
I firmly believe had we had Gerrard and Cole playing behind Torres, we would have won the game.
There was obvious improvement in the way we built the play up through centre mid field to the last third. It was the final ball that was lacking and I expect that to be rectified with the re-addition of one or more of Gerrard, Maxi and Cole.
Apart from that am really not that concerned about the performance.

Offline skyered

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2011, 01:13:33 pm »
the opprobrium heaped on Roy undeserved

We have made our bed - time to lie on it for a bit.

Agree with the second line from your post, Xerxes but not the first. Still happy today, even after last nights dismal performance, because this moaning, miserable old blert has gone from our club.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2011, 01:16:20 pm »
Sweet Jesus - read the topic and have a rethink on your post.This time last week Kenny was on a boat getting lashed.  This is his fifth day back.  5 days!  He's had the Mancs away in which we were robbed by a bent referee and played 60 minutes with 10 men and Blackpool away, which, with injuries and suspensions was far from easy.Imagine the world if every employer viewed its employees after 5 days and said "Few! He's sh!te"In a roundabout way you are being both positive and negative in one post.  "Roy wasn't bad.  Kenny is a bit better but is rusty. Does offer us hope though".Check the realities out
I suggest you do the same.

I meant what I said. We are where we are. Owners and manager changed.We are better off than we were before. Time to get on with it.
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Offline NaoiDeag

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2011, 01:17:03 pm »
Excellent OP.

I think people are frustrated at having to look long term and big picture, partly because it's been a while since we've seen a lot to shout about on the park, partly because of the agonising future we were facing with the twats, partly because that lot are heading for nineteen, and there's not a bloody thing we can do about it.

But I agree with you. We're in so much better a position, as a club, than we have been for a long time. We have a manager who understands, not just the fans, but the people of Liverpool and the club, top to bottom.

And that's a great foundation.

From what we know, we're in a very good position too in terms of debt and the ownership seem sharp, progressive and ambitious.

The team will get it together sooner or later. there are signs of spark coming back.

We need to do our bit now. Like the manager is, overlook the shortcomings. Shout about the positives. Build up what's good and forget the rest, for now. There's plenty in the papers and at other clubs to point that out. We're the only ones that can sing our praises. I don't mean be blind to it, but don't focus on it.

That's our job after all! Especially at times like this.

Some of us have spent so long looking at the dismal side of things, we expect it, always. it's all we see. It's as hard a habit for supporters to get out of as it is for the players to realise they're a hell of a lot better than that.

Sure we need reinforcements, but that will come. In the meantime, we've got to believe, and do our bit to make them belive, and let them know we do.

How does that song go again?

 
Because a thing seems difficult for you, do not think it impossible for anyone to accomplish.

Offline Andy

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2011, 01:18:46 pm »
I know we're not playing at our best right now but if we can't catch fucking Sunderland by the end of the season in this shite league then we may all as well accept that the game is up for LFC.

good op, followed by the above... I think you might need to accept it for this season or go "support" someone else.

it has been, and will continue to be, a horrendous season with no quick fixes. I believe the squad is good enough for a top 6 finish in terms of ability but confidence is rock bottom. negativity and pointless whinging will not help, supporting the team will.

Offline Yakyb

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2011, 01:37:30 pm »
it all goes back to the theory of Soccernomics (or whatever they call it)

sell a 30 yr old, buy a 23 yr old.

our problem right now is that following the H+G era we have not replaced adequately.

who can be blamed?
 H+G they don't need discussing Cancers that have crippled our club

Benitez,
 did the squad go in ready for 09/10?
no! We had a number of injuries to the point where Ayala started the first home game last season Benitez sought to fill this problem with a  1.5m Kyriagos (whom has been a huge success)
Maxi came in on a free, and Glenn was our spending of the Alonso money (i know not all of it)
where we as strong in 09/10 as 08/09? not a chance.

What could have been done to rectify this?
Well Benitez could have moved Babel on and used the 8-12m to fund a more reliable player, although he probably never seen the money. He could have sold a few others, but again would never have seen the money

What about Purslow + Hodgson
they bought
Cole on a free who could offer something but has not yet
Poulsen (whom i think is worse than voronin) the less said the better
Konchesky - can do a job but was not required (we had insua at minimum) the £10m spent on these two would have been far better on one player
Miereles - I think he can offer alot but his game is going downhill since coming here,
(Jovanovic Shelvey wilson in from Benitez era for pittance)


we have a squad whom of the top 5 performers (Gerrard, Torres , Kuyt, Carra + Reina) 3 are losing form, and are unlikely to get it back 3 are still world class players (Gerrard is included in both categories)
we have a number of players bought as a temporary measure  but not offer anything in the long run(Poulsen,Kyriagos,Jovanovic, Maxi ) they could still 'do a job'
Leaving only a few we can still expect to fight for the league and deliver (Gerrard, Torres, Lucas, Agger , Reina, Raul, Johnson Aurelio)
of course we still have potential in (Kelly , Pacheco , Wilson, Suso, Shelvey,Ince, Eccelston)
any others not mentioned (Skrtyl, Cole, Konchesky, Babel) are probably just bench players that where bought in to improve the team but are not succeeding at this time

we have a thin grounding of talent that when challenged to play three games in 7 days will not deliver (especially when that first game is against man u and only 10 men for an hour)
I think Kenny realised this and saw to put Poulsen out to rest others as best he could.

With injuries and fatigue  we have 6 players on average available at a given time with enough quality to challenge for top four this is not enough!

we need 4, minimum, young, exciting and confident players, to come in to bolster the team and moral and give us the opportunity to ship some weight.

how can this be funded?

Kuyt 8-10m? (player on the wane)
Babel 8-10m? (i would really love him to succeed here!)
konchesky 3-5m? (cut our losses)
Cole 3-5m? (probably worth more but huge wage bill)
poulsen 1m? (would be decent buy for Tranmere)
skrtyl 3-7m (decent player just not performing)
Kyriagos, 1m? ( may be worth keeping hold of him seems popular)
Jovanovic 2-3m  (odd free buy may have been successful worth a risk on a free)
 Maxi 3-4m ( has played well on occasion but not good enough for AM therefore not good enough for us would be a reasonable sub)

so thats ~£30m with keeping a few enough for 2-3 players of quality, tie in some investment (earnings and sponsorship no real investment required)

~£50m for a overhaul of 7 players out and 4 players in could revitalise us for next year

(turns off champ man)

 

« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 01:42:38 pm by Yakyb »

Offline wednesday25052005

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2011, 01:37:38 pm »
After the Blackpool game’s highlights on TV last night, that legends programme came on with lo and behold, Kenny Dalglish as the legend in question. God he was unbelievable. That goal he creates where he pulls the ball out of the sky with one touch to get it out of his feet, away from the defender and facing the goal, and then with his second touch he releases Rush with a perfectly weighted through ball? Sheer class.
Can you imagine one of our boys trying that now? Kuyt for example? God love him but he could hardly trap a bag of cement 75% of the time let alone have the vision to pull off that move. I can honestly say the closest I’ve come to seeing that type of unplayable instinctive football between Liverpool players was Gerrard and Torres in their pomp. Younger fans only had that for one season, A lot of our 40+ supporters had it for years.

I was born in 77, so never really realised or understood just how good Liverpool were. I mean, how knowledgeable can you be at the ages of 10, 11 and 12 about the sheer quality of football you were witness to? From the age of about 15 onwards, I really started to grasp what football was about, by which time the domestic scene was being dominated by the team at OT and we were going through what can only be described as a barren spell. But growing up in that era made you appreciate what you had, it made you realise that success wasn’t a requirement, it was a blessing. You appreciated it all the more because of the failures that went before it. Souness unfortunately didn’t work out, with neither an attractive or highly successful team. Evans played wonderful football, but the team had no substance. Houllier’s team was hard to watch, but it won cups and put Liverpool back on the international scene. Throughout all this time I never actually truly believed that we would win the league. Whether it was the squad, the style of manager, the players or what I don’t know. I just didn’t feel we had the complete package. Then Rafa came in and ultimately committed the greatest success and biggest mistake of his managerial career in one night. He won the European Cup with Jerzy Dudek and Djimi Traore and made us all believe he was the man to with the league! That he nearly did it the season before he left still wasn’t enough for many, many Liverpool fans to give him more time, to have another go, to carry on building. And all this at a time when uncertainty and lack of investment crippled the club when it finally seemed we were on the cusp.

Expectation. 7th not good enough for a club like Liverpool? Well, face facts people, we’re probably going to end up worse off this season and that’s even if Kenny does a great job and gets the team playing again. What dismays me more than anything is the continuous knee jerk reactions by so many. In the last 24 hours I’ve seen posts that say FSG acted too slowly in getting rid of Roy, Kenny’s playing people out of position, last night’s result shows it’s not all Roy’s fault, and the best one – the squad needs 6 – 10 new players to make it competitive again. How people can say this is beyond me? We lose to a Blackpool team formed on teamwork, passion, togetherness and all for about one year of Steven Gerrard’s salary, yet people believe new players are the answer. I continually read how rubbish this Man Utd team is, yet it’s a team that’s sitting miles ahead in the league. And worst of all, this is a Liverpool team that contains over 60% of the players who so nearly won the league two years ago, yet is 6-10 players short of challenging again. Eh???????


What has been clearly shown, Kenny himself has said it, is that confidence is a magic thing in football. A good player with confidence can take on the world, a great player lacking it can shrink at the slightest adversity. Right now, this team, this team full of international class players, international captains in some cases, is lacking confidence. Having played under a system where keeping possession of the ball was seen as a crime, amid a period of our history when the fan base has never been stronger and against a turbulent backdrop of ownership, our players have become rigid with fear. Anyone who seriously thinks last night proves that Roy wasn’t to blame is either deluded, or works for the media. My internet dropped out for the last 10 minutes of the game last night so I had the misfortune of having to listen to the radio commentary. Within 3 minutes I must have heard them state that it proved it wasn’t Roy’s fault twice. Let me tell you, 30 minutes of our football last night showed me the difference Kenny has already brought to the team in terms of passing, movement, pressurising and possession, more than Roy managed to do in his entire time at Liverpool. Regardless of the result, there are already signs of improvement, yet for many it’s still not enough. So despite the fact that our away record is shocking, we had 10 men for much of the previous game, Blackpool were fully rested AND we had a number of injuries, it was criminal that we lost this game and is indicative of the severe problems Liverpool have.

I’ll say it again. EH????????? If we won this game it would have been fantastic, a real achievement for Kenny and the team given what’s gone before - I even said so myself. However I also sounded a note of caution that there was still a real possibility that we could still get only one or two points from the Blackpool and Bitters games regardless of the undoubted lift Kenny and Clarkey have given to the club. Maybe it’s the expectation thing again? Now that Kenny’s back, I don’t expect us to suddenly go on a 10 match winning streak, but what I do expect is a change in the style and play, and attitude of our players and fans.

I’ve already seen that change from the players, but unfortunately we as fans still seem to be in H + G mode, ready to stick the knife into anyone at the earliest opportunity, even ourselves. Our club is in a HEALTHY position again. Yes, that’s right, HEALTHY. We have little or no debt, which means with or without Champions League football we have a profit margin every year most clubs would kill for. We have a squad blessed with internationals who under the right guidance have shown they can play. We have a manager who believes in this club and knows how it should be run, and will be instrumental in our future whether it’s with him at the helm or someone else, and we have owners who have already gone some way in their six months of ownership to show willingness in not just re-engaging the supporters but running the club privately, quietly and professionally. Yet this still isn’t enough for many of you?

I love this club, and despite the fact I’m back where I was pre-Rafa – not expecting to win the league any time soon, I am still over the moon with how the last 2 weeks have gone. 2010 will go down as an annus horribilis as bad as any in Liverpool’s history, but out of it have come some positives. New owners, new direction and a new stable base from which we can once again build upon. The only thing left is for the supporters to get back to supporting the team, wholeheartedly, passionately and in victory and defeat. More than ever the media feed off the likes of RAWK, (the H + G internet terrorism has guaranteed that)  and just cannot wait to see the types of posts we’ve seen in the last 24 hours, so every single supporter has a responsibility to swallow a reality pill, remember what supporting a football club is all about and realise that we are now back in good and safe hands, and that through those hands, things will progress once more. The Holy Trinity is nearly repaired; unfortunately it’s us, the supporters, who are holding it back.

Top post Mushy lad!

I heard an interview on Radio 5 about the match last night this morning in work where the interviewer was asked along the lines of 'surely Kenny Dalglish hasn't been there long enough to remedy the team and the response from the person (an official lfc supporter respresentative) said yes he's been there a while at the club now! He did go on more than just a one line answer but I just could get over that initial response- ffs - embarrassing.

I can understand it when Managers have to ask for patience, but loyalty to the team, the cause we as fans should have buckets of that just from our love of Liverpool Football Club alone, let alone of who we have in charge of the team now.

Don't forget Kenny went far beyond anything he achieved on the field or in the dug out for us during our worst times as a human being just by being there for people when they needed it most.

He will improve us no question, it'll take time no question, but he'll do it and I just hope people will remeber how short their memories were/are and daft their rants too knee jerk or no knee jerk.

YNWA 

Offline Roy of the rovers

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2011, 01:46:38 pm »
Kuyt 8-10m? (player on the wane)
Babel 8-10m? (i would really love him to succeed here!)
konchesky 3-5m? (cut our losses)
Cole 3-5m? (probably worth more but huge wage bill)
poulsen 1m? (would be decent buy for Tranmere)
skrtyl 3-7m (decent player just not performing)
Kyriagos, 1m? ( may be worth keeping hold of him seems popular)
Jovanovic 2-3m  (odd free buy may have been successful worth a risk on a free)
 Maxi 3-4m ( has played well on occasion but not good enough for AM therefore not good enough for us would be a reasonable sub)

so thats ~£30m with keeping a few enough for 2-3 players of quality, tie in some investment (earnings and sponsorship no real investment required)

~£50m for a overhaul of 7 players out and 4 players in could revitalise us for next year

(turns off champ man)

You're getting rid of 7 to get 4. We need the depth, as well as the strength


Offline Roy of the rovers

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2011, 01:48:59 pm »
Our rightful distaste for G&H has led to unintended consequences. The Messianic status conferred on Rafa was impossible for him to live up to,the opprobrium heaped on Roy undeserved, and now the legend of Kenny has been resurrected and been overblown creating  much risk even though his welcome return has sated the appetite of the attack dogs - for now.

We wanted "Anyone but G&H" - we got them. We wanted anyone but Roy. We got him. The inexperience of FSG and the ring rustiness of Kenny have been understated by many. Yet both of them offer us a chance, and both are better than we had before.

We have made our bed - time to lie on it for a bit.

Good post - patience doesn't mean 'until the derby'

(Apart from the opprobrium on Roy - which he richly deserved  :no)

Offline Roy of the rovers

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2011, 01:56:48 pm »
Great OP, agree with a lot the comments.

I vacillate between thinking we just need to get some confidence back into the players and some reorganisation, along with a few quality additions, to thinking that we need to get rid of at least half this squad, blood some of the youngters through sooner than we were going to, and basically have a complete root and branch overhaul of the playing staff. There are just too many players either not giving enough or shouldn't be anywhere near this club in the first place,  Poulsen, N.gog, Javanoic, Meireles, Konch spring to mind. These are stopping our youth players coming through.

If I'm honest, I don't really know what I think anymore. Relegation dog fight between now and end of the season appears to be on the cards.

We need more than a few quality additions, but we've still got a decent squad which is good enough for top 6 in a normal season

We've got a lot of 'temporary factors' working against us that will take time to unwind

1) Tired legs - it's been a demanding schedule and we've not rotated much. Time to fix - 2 weeks or so (i.e. after the derby we get 6 days off)
2) Rusty 'fringe players' that weren't used by Roy: Agger, Jova, Cole, Johnson, Soto, Aurelio, Shelvey. Time to fix - at least 3-5 games or mid Feb
3) Shocking confidence. Time to fix  - who knows?
4) Uncertainty about formation, roles, etc. We were a well-honed 4-2-3-1 machine, and then we got half-way into a shite version of 4-4-2. Which way now? Time to fix - well it could take 3 seasons (which is what maureen reckons he needs and rafa took) but I'm going to push Kenny and the teams to make big strides by end Feb
5) Shambolic defensive organisation. Steve Clarke's supposed to be good at this. Time to fix - mid Feb?

Patience doesn't mean "until the derby". It means 10 games at least. Until then, breathe deep, and sing loud.

There's nothing else we can usefully do

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2011, 02:00:41 pm »
I like the OP alot. I posted on the post-match thread that expectations wer not managed well at all. Many people on here thought Kenny just could not lose. But I haven't put it as extensivley and eloquently as the OP. Kenny is not a magician, he walks with mortals and he has to deal with hard realities. The point that Blackpool are man for man a much weaker team than us and yet outplayed us has to be taken on board as well. Fenway have not seen hard evidence yet that money is the answer to this problem. Confidence is the problem.

Offline Yakyb

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2011, 02:16:18 pm »
You're getting rid of 7 to get 4. We need the depth, as well as the strength

we have better quality in the Reserves than we have had in a long time Kelly,Shelvey ,Wilson, Pacheco and Suso (not to mention Eccelston / Ince) should all be stepping up shortly

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2011, 02:17:57 pm »
I like the OP alot. I posted on the post-match thread that expectations wer not managed well at all. Many people on here thought Kenny just could not lose. But I haven't put it as extensivley and eloquently as the OP. Kenny is not a magician, he walks with mortals and he has to deal with hard realities. The point that Blackpool are man for man a much weaker team than us and yet outplayed us has to be taken on board as well. Fenway have not seen hard evidence yet that money is the answer to this problem. Confidence is the problem.
We should of got Gok Wan in as manager then.
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Offline IrishMike

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2011, 02:19:27 pm »
Excellent OP, especially agree with this

Iíve already seen that change from the players, but unfortunately we as fans still seem to be in H + G mode, ready to stick the knife into anyone at the earliest opportunity, even ourselves. Our club is in a HEALTHY position again. Yes, thatís right, HEALTHY. We have little or no debt, which means with or without Champions League football we have a profit margin every year most clubs would kill for. We have a squad blessed with internationals who under the right guidance have shown they can play. We have a manager who believes in this club and knows how it should be run, and will be instrumental in our future whether itís with him at the helm or someone else, and we have owners who have already gone some way in their six months of ownership to show willingness in not just re-engaging the supporters but running the club privately, quietly and professionally. Yet this still isnít enough for many of you?

I love this club, and despite the fact Iím back where I was pre-Rafa Ė not expecting to win the league any time soon, I am still over the moon with how the last 2 weeks have gone. 2010 will go down as an annus horribilis as bad as any in Liverpoolís history, but out of it have come some positives. New owners, new direction and a new stable base from which we can once again build upon. The only thing left is for the supporters to get back to supporting the team, wholeheartedly, passionately and in victory and defeat. More than ever the media feed off the likes of RAWK, (the H + G internet terrorism has guaranteed that)  and just cannot wait to see the types of posts weíve seen in the last 24 hours, so every single supporter has a responsibility to swallow a reality pill, remember what supporting a football club is all about and realise that we are now back in good and safe hands, and that through those hands, things will progress once more. The Holy Trinity is nearly repaired; unfortunately itís us, the supporters, who are holding it back.

The war is over time to lay down your weapons and get right behind the manager, players and owners.
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Offline pool-ire

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2011, 02:20:05 pm »
I commend the OP, I have felt the exact same way as you do even though I'm only a late 80's kid. It's not often I can agree with someone on this forum but I feel you've taken the thoughts right from my head. I always feel Football Manager has made people think they know how to manage a team better than our current manager. I know, exaggeration, but it's just how I feel a MINORITY think.
People need to listen to Kenny's first interview again. It's not all sunshine instantly, but I believe it to be a sunrise.

Offline bleedsred1978

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2011, 02:20:40 pm »
We should of got Gok Wan in as manager then.

It'a all about the confidence... :)


From here on in its all FSG's doing. Good or bad they will stand or fall by the decisions they have made in the summer of 2012. Lets hope they have gotten it right.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2011, 02:24:03 pm »
I like the OP alot. I posted on the post-match thread that expectations wer not managed well at all. Many people on here thought Kenny just could not lose. But I haven't put it as extensivley and eloquently as the OP. Kenny is not a magician, he walks with mortals and he has to deal with hard realities. The point that Blackpool are man for man a much weaker team than us and yet outplayed us has to be taken on board as well. Fenway have not seen hard evidence yet that money is the answer to this problem. Confidence is the problem.
Absolutely correct. We've lost to many teams over the last couple of seasons who are vastly inferior in terms of talent and skill. But they don't fear us, they don't fear defeat and they play with confidence.

He's only been here 5 minutes but I believe Kenny can get the current players playing to their potential.

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness – It’s all got to stop
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2011, 02:31:55 pm »
It'a all about the confidence... :)



Thats the cat. We get him and we'll be the most confident and well dressed team this Spring/Summer.

We'll look boss walking out on the pitch in Dublin. And as for our play!....Spin and twist and twirl and shimmy and pass an move.....you go girls!.....;D
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Offline Roslagen

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2011, 02:31:56 pm »
I'm irritated that the promised signings have dried up - and Comolli is yet to convince me he's good enough for his role. What's his claim to fame really? Signing Juande Ramos  :butt

All I ask for is investment on three young, capable players who could change the game instantly. In other words, Coentr„o, Hazard and SuŠrez. It may cost us £ 50 million, but believe me, a possible relegation would be even more expensive.

Signing players is no knee-jerk situation, we just need new blood into the squad now. And I don't care if it's difficult to get players in January or whether they're cup tied or anything. We need game-changers now, not to persist with the current squad of fragile individuals shitting their pants whenever they play away from Mom  :no

Aside from being fed-up with the word patience and long-term plan (they've done that for 20 years at Spurs haven't they  :o), it's a good OP and I liked the newcomers' post too. But this is about our survival. I trust the King, but if we lose a few more on the trot now - he may have to step aside, and we have to purchase another manager in the middle of the season. If we are relegated, this could be the end of our ambitions to win any title the next 100 years.
Mourinho to Spurs when Redknapp leaves, was a discussion I had with a friend in the pub last night. Possible.

Offline Baz Smythe

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2011, 02:33:22 pm »
Excellent OP said exactly how i was thinking and feel. That game last night was entertaining, end to end football, what we've been crying out for. The only problem is Blackpool had been playing it longer than we have and know exactly where their teammates were and what runs they were going to make. Its a long process and off the style of play last night i'd love Kenny to be given a few years at the helm to rebuild the bootroom and pass and move style of play. Even with the likes of Jovanovic and Raul tackling defenders in their own half shows what type of football we should expect from now on at Liverpool. Exciting times are ahead. It took Shankly years to get to the top give Kenny the same. Rome wasn't built in a day
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2011, 02:35:21 pm »
I'm irritated that the promised signings have dried up - and Comolli is yet to convince me he's good enough for his role. What's his claim to fame really? Signing Juande Ramos  :butt
Yeah, Bale and Modric are terrible n' all.

Offline B.Red

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2011, 02:35:54 pm »
We should of got Gok Wan in as manager then.

Not sure how I feel about that one! He's only good with fat birds isn't he? Rafa could have done with a bit of 'tuck and lift'.

Offline Roslagen

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2011, 02:37:41 pm »
Yeah, Bale and Modric are terrible n' all.

Bale was a huge flop as a left back, and you know it. It was only random fortune that meant he was put on the midfield due to injuries. So that's down to Harry - for Comolli's part he miscalculated Bale's potential as a defender. As for Modric, well that was a good one, but one only had to watch him play for five minutes to see he was the real deal  ;)
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Offline Saumitra

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2011, 02:41:14 pm »
19 December 1959     LFC 0-4 Cardiff City

26 December 1959     Charlton Athletic 3-0 LFC

Should have sacked the new guy



Offline The Rawker

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2011, 02:42:06 pm »
The sooner we as fans realise that and start unitedly supporting the club again, the quicker that will happen.

I get your point and agree 100% but wouldn't have quite put it that way myself  :)

Sorry for being a dimwit (I am new) - what does OP stand for?  :-[
Fuck it all and fuckin' no regrets

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Offline B.Red

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2011, 02:47:14 pm »
I get your point and agree 100% but wouldn't have quite put it that way myself  :)

Sorry for being a dimwit (I am new) - what does OP stand for?  :-[

Old Pie

Offline Baz Smythe

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2011, 02:48:05 pm »
Otters Protection. We're big on it here
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Offline mulhiem

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2011, 02:48:24 pm »
The URL for this site should be 'redandwhiteyoyo.com'. One minute people are optimistic the next after a couple of defeats the world of red has gone to shit again.

Offline Roslagen

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #75 on: January 13, 2011, 02:50:36 pm »
19 December 1959     LFC 0-4 Cardiff City

26 December 1959     Charlton Athletic 3-0 LFC

Should have sacked the new guy

:lmao
Mourinho to Spurs when Redknapp leaves, was a discussion I had with a friend in the pub last night. Possible.

Offline B.Red

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #76 on: January 13, 2011, 02:51:31 pm »
Otters Protection. We're big on it here

Oh I must be mistaken. When I say OP I mean Old Pie but I do like otters fuckin loads!

Offline Roslagen

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #77 on: January 13, 2011, 02:53:58 pm »
Sorry for being a dimwit (I am new) - what does OP stand for?  :-[

Opening Post, Orwell's Paradise or Owen's a Pig

One of those are right, work it out  :P
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Offline McSquared

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2011, 02:54:06 pm »
We have a new manager and assistant that have been here less than a week.

We were all expecting a 'bounce' effect, but for some reason this hasn't panned out.

Hopefully, we can put this right over the next few weeks and start picking up results. We can't be all doom and gloom after two bad results under a new regime can we?

Offline JohnBarnesBigToe

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Re: Expectations, Knee Jerkism, Bitterness Ė Itís all got to stop
« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2011, 02:55:23 pm »
Donít understand anything other than cause for optimism. Over 2 games, for 150 minutes or so we have played the best football we have seen for at least 18 months.
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