Topic: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...

[LiverBirdKop]

We had 2 shots on target against a defense containing Jonny Evans and John O'Shea. Does anyone know where you can buy 8 feet of thick rope?

Just keep watching us play. It may take a little longer and bring prolonged agony, but you'll save on the price of the rope.

[redrave]

You know what, I'm not going to stop going on about Rafa. Fuck all yous who want to moan about it.

We got shot of a fucking amazing manager, a bloke who got us, a bloke who stuck up for us, a bloke who stood up to the pricks we hate, a bloke who stood up to the owners and wouldn't be bullied, and a bloke who took us to within a whisker of the title. A bloke who won us the champions league, made us a fucking terrifying proposition in Europe, a bloke who delivered batterings to the likes of the team we played today and Real Madrid, and you want people to NOT go on about him?!?

Fuck off. He was the mustard. The dogs bollocks. As good as it gets. And we got rid of him after ONE shite season to replace him with a yes man, a lovely old gent who kisses the arse of Ferguson and who has one of the worst records in the league.

No, I won't stop going on about Rafa, and I won't stop comparing the two. If you don't like it that's just tough shite.

Quite easily the best post I've ever read on this site. Please Sir, can I have some more?

[Wish Matrix]

Seeing all my Manc mates status updates in Facebook is even more depressing.

[The G in Gerrard]

A thread where he wasn't managing?

He wasn't managing a side involved in this thread but you seem to keep bringing him into everything

[chiplege]

If everyone can be this calm and looks things in perspective.

Sensible post thought Poulson improved in the 2nd half.  However, he is not better than Lucas by a long shot. 

[WelshMike]

Because Torres would never have got near the ball?

Since when did that matter? He was penalised for wrestling someone to the ground as last man. I've seen players kick the ball closer to the corner flag than the goal (or out for a goal kick) when rounding a goalkeeper but it's still penalty & red card given because of the opportunity. Crazy decision.

[cornelius]

On a plus note United are worse than last season and won't be adding to their league or champions league tally for a while.

[lehman_bros]

Can everybody agree that our 2 CB should be Kyriakos and Agger?

carra need to be droppped

[TSC]

Don't lose sight of the real issues - the ownership and what messrs Broughton et al are doing.  Football is merely a sideshow at the moment, and will continue to be so until there is some stability at the top.

[hesbighesred]

cant work out if this is sarcasm or not but he really would have

No, he really wouldn't. Keeper was quick off his line. Usain Bolt couldn't have made up the distance in time. I was livid at the time but Webb was actually right for once - a booking for a needless (but crucially) off the ball foul.

[JP-65]

10 points behind the leaders after 5 matches is the reality.

It's been a general theme that we want to be in contention going into April, that we want to be in contention at Christmas.

We've had a few poor starts, but this is as bad as it gets, out of contention before September is even finished!  Not only have the results been poor, but the performances, team shape, tactics and substitutions have also been poor.....shaping up to be a very, very long season IMHO

[silver 5 star]

10 games in i've made up my mind, i'm anti hodgson and i wouldn't blink an eye if he was sacked tomorrow. i'd rather have owen coyle. seriously.

steady.

I do think however that if we keep playing this way that as one person said earlier Roy could be gone before the Christmas deccies go up.

Martin O'Neill is at a loose end at the mo....

[Ambrosia]

It's actually a point to those who continue to deitify Rafa whilst demonising Roy. It's as if Rafa took this team to title glories, but this new shite clueless manager will get us relegated.

Rafa did a lot more for us than Roy has done. And you're missing the point. Roy has to earn the trust and credit Rafa earned. Until he does, Roy will continue to be "demonised", especially when he has us putting on some very pathetic performances.

[SwedenRed]

carra need to be droppped

Agreed. He just isnt 'solid' enough. Playing too deep, getting out jumped on crosses... Becoming too much of a liability. Roy will show if he really has any balls by dropping him.

[-Nay-]

You know what, I'm not going to stop going on about Rafa. Fuck all yous who want to moan about it.

We got shot of a fucking amazing manager, a bloke who got us, a bloke who stuck up for us, a bloke who stood up to the pricks we hate, a bloke who stood up to the owners and wouldn't be bullied, and a bloke who took us to within a whisker of the title. A bloke who won us the champions league, made us a fucking terrifying proposition in Europe, a bloke who delivered batterings to the likes of the team we played today and Real Madrid, and you want people to NOT go on about him?!?

Fuck off. He was the mustard. The dogs bollocks. As good as it gets. And we got rid of him after ONE shite season to replace him with a yes man, a lovely old gent who kisses the arse of Ferguson and who has one of the worst records in the league.

No, I won't stop going on about Rafa, and I won't stop comparing the two. If you don't like it that's just tough shite.

[Phil M]

Oh well, at least we're not Everton.

[OddEel]

It has to be mentioned again that the sideways-backwards passes only tactic was rather painful to see. Especially when it's employed by a team like Liverpool with Fernando Torres in it.

Gutted ManU won 

Webb didn't do too badly after all and was quite fair, except for chickening out on the professional red-card thing (a rule that needs to be re-examined anyway IMHoO).

[Gromit]

A question to everyone,

I want to comment something on formations. Just recently we played 4-4-2 against a top side playing  and we lost. Everyone was critizing Hodgson for being stupid and tactially naive.

Today, the roles were swapped and at times it was 4 reds vs 2 red devils in midfield and yet we lost. I wonder what those people have got to say.

I think Hodgson's set-up is closer to Houllier than Rafa.  Houllier/Hodgson want players to keep their shape, so mainly two banks of 4, very rigid and inflexible.  Under Benitez, we had a similar set-up to his Valencia side, players pressing together as if linked by a piece of string depending which area of the field the ball was.

I'd add that so far Houllier was better at organising his midfield than Hodgson has shown.

[cornelius]

I do think however that if we keep playing this way that as one person said earlier Roy could be gone before the Christmas deccies go up.

We've had a tough start in very difficult circumstances. I believe we will pick up shortly.

[redforlife]

steady.

I do think however that if we keep playing this way that as one person said earlier Roy could be gone before the Christmas deccies go up.

Martin O'Neill is at a loose end at the mo....

They won't get rid of Roy no matter how badly we do.  His appointment wasn't made in the hope of winning the league, far from it, it was just to steady the ship.  Keep us up and he'll stay in the job

[Carra-ton]

You know what surprised me most was Howard Webb giving that penalty, if the linesman hadn't put his flag to his chest, I am sure Howard Webb would have waved it off.

[jaffod]

Seeing all my Manc mates status updates in Facebook is even more depressing.

Almost as depressing as seeing references to Manc mates' facebook status's in the post-match thread.

[benn25]

A Poulsen masterclass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_a_ehKnbA

I loved this guy!!!! Goosepimples just watching it. Fucking welling up aswell its no more.

[Mad Men]

Do you know how DEPRESSING it is watching Chelsea rip Blackpool apart in 40 minutes? 4-0....beautiful attacking football...

Man...times have changed....

[caspertheghost]

jesus look at what chelsea are doing........why bother stopping at 2-0?

[Effes]

This isn't about me saying Rafa is the next Jesus.

he isn't here, he's gone fine, whatever, everyone moves on. But the whole fucking point is why he has gone. And that, is THE issue. He's gone because of the media agenda and politicking that mad him out to be the sole reason we were shithouse last season.

When clearly, new season, same result, with an "approved" manager, were just as diabolical and awful as we were, except now we're not creating anything and we're just as bad in Europe.

So the point is not "I love Rafa, down with Roy", it's we're in shit state because the focus was on blaming Rafa and every whopper Talksport listening, Sky Sports watching fuckwit jumped on the bandwagon. Now here we are 12 months on, same position, same shit house results, and what, we paid to get rid of a manager, to bring in a new one, to sell off players rather than buy... and Rafa is still getting the blame for us losing?

Zonal marking is at fault for our goals today? Bollocks.

Tremendous bit of flannel

[Monsieur]

Don't lose sight of the real issues - the ownership and what messrs Broughton et al are doing.  Football is merely a sideshow at the moment, and will continue to be so until there is some stability at the top.

Can you honestly say that the ownership of the club is having a negative affect on the team's playing ability??
Bollocks - the playing ability of the team would still be appaling irrespective of who the owners are (or the manager).
We have a team where only 20% of the players have any passion, skill or committment.
Can't keep using the ownership issue for an excuse for poor performance on the field

[RK7]

10 games in i've made up my mind, i'm anti hodgson and i wouldn't blink an eye if he was sacked tomorrow. i'd rather have owen coyle. seriously.

Pathetic support, Liverpool FC is dead and you are part of it.

[Crank]

It's not about whether you were pro-Rafa or anti-Rafa, it's just plain ridiculous to be arguing with each other of his merits or lack thereof when:

1) He's gone
2) He isn't coming back
3) The fans didn't get him sacked

Live in the past all you want, but it ain't going to get us anywhere.

[TSC]

Rafa did a lot more for us than Roy has done. And you're missing the point. Roy has to earn the trust and credit Rafa earned. Until he does, Roy will continue to be "demonised", especially when he has us putting on some very pathetic performances.

He doesn't have to earn respect from faceless net warriors.  It is the match going support, and while they will turn eventually if we struggle all season, they won't do it after 5 games.

[Phil M]

Lucas was missed today.

[hesbighesred]

Since when did that matter? He was penalised for wrestling someone to the ground as last man. I've seen players kick the ball closer to the corner flag than the goal (or out for a goal kick) when rounding a goalkeeper but it's still penalty & red card given because of the opportunity. Crazy decision.

Of course it matters, and the 'rounding' issue is totally different - you could always argue that the player had the ball under control until they see the keeper racing wildly towards them - indeed you can see a lot of times the player is knocking it badly because they are also trying to prepare for/avoid the 'keepers fouling lunge. That can be exploited of course, but it's still hugely different - in one situation the player never had control of the ball, and was never going to get it. In the other situation the player did have control of the ball, and then lost it.

Most of the time you don't even see a free kick given for those kind of off the ball challenges, let alone at OT. I won't credit Webb because he still had an inconsistent game but he actually got that one spot on, I think.

[LiverBirdKop]

Don't lose sight of the real issues - the ownership and what messrs Broughton et al are doing.  Football is merely a sideshow at the moment, and will continue to be so until there is some stability at the top.

Exactly. A "good" season under Roy will just be a huge bonus. Enough damage control to keep the majority of the fan base apathetic is what it's about right now and is what you get from Roy's post match comments. A fake diagnostic if you like.

[Hazell]

jesus look at what chelsea are doing........why bother stopping at 2-0?

Wrong thread mate. This is the Rafa thread.

[rednich85]

Why? 

The most obvious being we have a different manager and different players.....as have the teams who you are comparing us with.

An example.....Utd were there for the taking today. If we had of played a pressing game we would of had a lot more joy. Letting players like Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs cruise through games......old men....having the time and space.

Playing teams under different circumstances

Brum is another example.....

Arsenal too.....first game of the season at home...new manager...general good feelings etc.

You can't just compare like for like. People grasping at straws trying to defend the old manager last season resorted to this sort of thing.

[weezernumber5]

Shall I list the differences again? I'll try and do them in descending order of obviousness:

1) No pressing whatsoever, or very, very little.
2) No adaptation in approach according to the opposition, both in defence and attack.
3) No atttempt to nullify opposition strengths.
4) No attempt to target specific weaknesses.
5) Deep defensive line as basis of our entire approach rather than an option (which, granted, was arguably overused last season - with the caveat that Rafa had tons of injuries to contend with. This is clearly Roy's preferred approach - he's had no real injury issues whatsoever, bar Torres to start the season.
6) Midfield 4 plays in a flat line, basically identical to our defensive line, with very little room between them.
7) We don't use the DM's as a platform from which to build possession anymore. Fulham's 'platform' was Zamora - Torres is, thus far, failing very hard indeed in that role.
'Wingers' were more like AMs under Rafa, more intented to play between the lines, more emphasis on keeping possession and 1-2s rather than running at people/running to get into position. This goes a long way to explaining why Maxi's looked a lot worse this season.
9) Under Rafa there was much more emphasis on the full-backs to provide width.
10) On the whole, the midfield and defense were a LOT more aggressive in looking to win the ball back - even when we played deep we'd only stand off to a certain point. Under Roy we retreat into position and stand off until the opposition reaches us.
11) We now man-mark from set-pieces (that should be higher in the 'obvious' list but I can't be arsed to change it again )

Anyway - I'm sure I could think of more, and admittedly some of those are variations on the same theme, but the basic ones of pressing, defensive line and especially variation are pretty bloody huge, fundamental and glaring differences.

Our form (away from home) may be similar, but the approach is hugely, hugely different. Roy may well be right - I emphasise this is a horrible run of games, especially in terms of our attack gelling and confidence building - but it'll be the same in the next few games. These games are crucial - if Roy can improve our form against lesser teams then he's probably done exactly the right things tactically. We'll get gifted the ball a lot more in the games to come so we'll see more how effective these tactics can really be, but they ARE very different. To be honest that should be pretty obvious to anyone actually paying close attention, I would have thought.

What he said....somebody buy this man a drink!

[Deadlogic]

You know what, I'm not going to stop going on about Rafa. Fuck all yous who want to moan about it.

We got shot of a fucking amazing manager, a bloke who got us, a bloke who stuck up for us, a bloke who stood up to the pricks we hate, a bloke who stood up to the owners and wouldn't be bullied, and a bloke who took us to within a whisker of the title. A bloke who won us the champions league, made us a fucking terrifying proposition in Europe, a bloke who delivered batterings to the likes of the team we played today and Real Madrid, and you want people to NOT go on about him?!?

Fuck off. He was the mustard. The dogs bollocks. As good as it gets. And we got rid of him after ONE shite season to replace him with a yes man, a lovely old gent who kisses the arse of Ferguson and who has one of the worst records in the league.

No, I won't stop going on about Rafa, and I won't stop comparing the two. If you don't like it that's just tough shite.

I very rarely post on here anymore, but just want to say - absolutely spot on.

[cornelius]

Rafa did a lot more for us than Roy has done. And you're missing the point. Roy has to earn the trust and credit Rafa earned. Until he does, Roy will continue to be "demonised", especially when he has us putting on some very pathetic performances.

Yeah you're right fuck it, the owners have abandoned the Liverpool way so we should too...

[silver 5 star]

On a plus note United are worse than last season and won't be adding to their league or champions league tally for a while.

in the meantime Chelseaki are already 4-0 up against Blackpool

[Dr Manhattan]

but it ain't going to get us anywhere.

Bit like Roy Hodgson.