Author Topic: Steve McManaman - Legend or big time charlie???????? (Read 67384 times)

readybreck · « **Reply #80 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:01:15 am »

Legend my arse

shangtsung · « **Reply #81 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:47:27 am »

Fantastic, fantastic player, unfortunately a grade A tosser. And do people seriously doubt his ability? If he was available for 4 million and so was Benayoun, he would take Macca every day of the week. And we would be definite contenders for the title with him in the squad.

Johnnyboy1973 · « **Reply #82 on:** August 13, 2007, 07:58:45 am »

We still have not replaced him and if God is a legend so is he.

Sir Harvest Fields · « **Reply #83 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:03:08 am »

i thought he was very good for us. i still remember his goal against celtic. hell of a run. but Legend? no way. not gonna rate him along digger, kenny, rush and robbie.! shite pundit too

shangtsung · « **Reply #84 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:05:02 am »

Quote from: Johnnyboy1973 on August 13, 2007, 07:58:45 am

We still have not replaced him and if God is a legend so is he.

Legend status is more than just on the pitch exploits. Mcmanaman has never endeared himself to the fans like Growler has.

Johnnyboy1973 · « **Reply #85 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:08:21 am »

Thats Souness fucked then

shangtsung · « **Reply #86 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:09:45 am »

In his time he was, I don';t think many Reds like him now.

bigbear · « **Reply #87 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:13:42 am »

Quote from: Johnnyboy1973 on August 13, 2007, 08:08:21 am

Thats Souness fucked then

Souness's on-pitch exploits far out-weight MacMananamans. Don't want to open up the rest of the shite but Souness is a legendary player, Macca is not, just a good one who you got the feeling wasn't really that arsed about it although he did carry a poor side in his last year.

The problem I have with Macca is that he always seems to carry a chip on his shoulder as though he's not pleased that this Liverpool side is better than his. When you hear most pundits talk they usually display some affection for their old club but don't think he really does.

StevieG26 · « **Reply #88 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:18:13 am »

Big time Charlie. No way is that man a legend.

Johnnyboy1973 · « **Reply #89 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:20:08 am »

I know but it was said that legend status was linked to off field actions. U cant mention Souness and Macca in the same sentence but you can Macca and God - no difference. Lawrensons chip is larger.

bigbear · « **Reply #90 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:28:18 am »

Quote from: Johnnyboy1973 on August 13, 2007, 08:20:08 am

I know but it was said that legend status was linked to off field actions. U cant mention Souness and Macca in the same sentence but you can Macca and God - no difference. Lawrensons chip is larger.

I know but it's a combination and Souness's on-field exploits demand legendary status even if he's hated now, he's a hated legend !

Fowler was a better player than Macca and I always think it was the Rudddock's and Macca's who led him down the garden path which leads to a loss of conditioning and injuries. The attitude of the first team in the Evans days left a lot to be desired and Macca was part of that.

BIGdavalad · « **Reply #91 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:28:43 am »

Quote from: redmark on August 12, 2007, 11:53:39 pm

That Liverpool team wasn't at all bad; a truly great McManaman (more goals, slightly better final ball on occasions) would have taken it to a title. My personal definition of great includes some element of achievement and longevity, not just abillity.

Or one of the nine players outside of him and Fowler could have occasionally done something?

Fantastic player. Dragged us through the 90s along with Fowler when we were truly truly fucking awful. Fucked over by the club with the Barcelona thing and I don't blame him for leaving after it to be honest, although the way he did it was disappointing.

Quote from: rushyman on August 12, 2007, 11:07:59 pm

McManaman and Owens departure left a bad taste in the mouth yeah, but it was there loss. In Owens case unbelievably so. Left to win CL the very year we won it and was even on the bench v Graz away

I bet he was gutted that all he got at Real was a couple of European Cups, a cracker of a goal in the final, the man of the match for the final, a couple of league titles and everything else they won when he could have been at Liverpool struggling to qualify for the UEFA Cup, again.

ArthurNunez · « **Reply #92 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:12:20 am »

Not a legend, but not a big time charlie, just a good player. Him and Fowler were the two shining lights of the 90s for us (Rob Jones wasn't too bad either...) but at the end of the day we didn't win a great deal, even if we should have won more.

Whether or not he's a gobshite...the recent comments about how he doesn't think we'll win the league weren't actually as scathing as the headlines made out if you read his actual quotes. Just an honest opinion on how he thought we'd do.

worthers · « **Reply #93 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:27:51 am »

Quote from: ArthurNunez on August 13, 2007, 09:12:20 am

Not a legend, but not a big time charlie, just a good player. Him and Fowler were the two shining lights of the 90s for us (Rob Jones wasn't too bad either...) but at the end of the day we didn't win a great deal, even if we should have won more.

Ditto. Playing wise good to v.player (goal against Celtic sticks out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzZ0k8fZZTg&mode=related&search=)

What I really dislike is the way (if i remember correctly) the fuck us over contract negotiations. He kept saying he would sign, and held out for a Bosman, we lost millions in a transfer fee.

djphal · « **Reply #94 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:29:54 am »

Liked him when he played for us

after the way he left and some of the shit he comes out with i dont like him anymore
he is also bringing his kids up as evertonians the blue nosed tosser

Grobbelrevell · « **Reply #95 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:37:55 am »

Quote from: redtillded on August 12, 2007, 10:30:31 pm

yeah but dont forget the club tried to shaft him by agreeing to sell him to barca only to find out they were being used by barca, after that his mum took ill and you cant really blame him for leaving on a free, it was the club who showed their hand first !

Exactly. And if you believe robbie, then Macca was all set to sign a new contract with it all agreed before the club backed out and then offered half the amount that they had previously agreed on.

Dont think that he is quite the rebel that the club tried to make out.

Great player when he was with us as well. Would have loved for him to had stayed a bit longer than he did.

Not sure about him as a pundit, probably on the same level as barnsey!

Dubred · « **Reply #96 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:39:50 am »

Liked him when he played for us. Played good football in an underachieving team. What I think of him now is irrelevant and should have no impact on legend status.

He is not a Liverpool legend. How can a player be a legend when he won practically nothing with the club? Surely a legend is a player who led us to repeated success and contributed to it massively? Not to be confused with a player like Traore who has a Champions League medal but is far from a legend.

Thats my 'rough' criteria for a Liverpool legend anyway. Probably the only player in Liverpool history who I can think of who did not win all the honours some of his predessors won but is definitely still a legend is Robbie Fowler, for what he meant to the club, but also for the fact he was so prolific and close to breaking club records.

McManaman.....good player.....no Legend.

Johnnyboy1973 · « **Reply #97 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:45:56 am »

So Dubred, Owen was a legend?

GBF · « **Reply #98 on:** August 13, 2007, 09:51:07 am »

I liked Macca...and still does! I dont understand the bad feelings towards him....its the Liverpool management who is to be blamed, not Macca! Parry and his boys seems to like having a pissing about with players contracts every seasons. I think its only this year we showed some improvement in that level!

xabi rules · « **Reply #99 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:03:41 am »

Quote from: alonsoisared on August 12, 2007, 10:20:30 pm

Legend

definitely not

Quote from: cuppatea on August 12, 2007, 10:21:50 pm

Very good player for us at the time, but not a legend.

Agreed

Quote from: Aldridge 8 on August 12, 2007, 10:31:52 pm

shitbag and a snide

Bit harsh

Quote from: Tony18:5 on August 12, 2007, 10:37:30 pm

Tosser

Ah he's not so bad

Quote from: wickolfc on August 12, 2007, 10:46:03 pm

Great player.

Talented not 'great'

Quote from: carraggeriise on August 12, 2007, 10:53:48 pm

great player

gobshite

neither assessment is entirely true.

I always felt that he was talented but flattered to deceive. I also think that he would fit in well as a squad player in the current set-up. His opinions are his own and have no bearing on my opinion of him as a footballer, in the same way that I remember Souness as a great player despite his performance as manager and his decision regarding 'that paper'

Ron · « **Reply #100 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:06:50 am »

http://stage6.divx.com/Liverpool-Documentaries/video/1213494/22---Steve-McManaman

Legend, what does that word really mean anyway ?
But have a look and tell me he wasn't a great player for the club.
If you do I'll tell you what you are.

Everybody is always angry about him leaving for free.
But think about your own job for a minute.
If you can better yourself by working for another company, wouldn't you do it ?
You'd be mad not to.

Also something to consider, the team around him and Fowler was very very limited and he wasn't, he was world class. (another meaningless term, but what the hell)

flying red · « **Reply #101 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:10:13 am »

Good but inconsistent player in a mediocre, inconsistent team at the time. Whilst on their day Macca, Robbie and Jamie could be very effective, that day didn't come round nearly often enough.

The fame of being a local lad made good fueled his complacency - he was cut more slack than any overseas player simply because he's a scouser. He didn't fulfill his potential. I don't hold the way he left against him - we all want the best paid job we can get.

It takes more than a couple of great goals on Youtube to be a legend - it's about putting the work in, every match. If you we used good goals scored as the criterion for conferring legend status then Cisse would be right up their for his Cup Final volley.

I reckon Macca would have been a better player if he'd been managed by Rafa.

Ron · « **Reply #102 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:11:50 am »

Quote from: flying red on August 13, 2007, 10:10:13 am

I reckon Macca would have been a better player if he'd been managed by Rafa.

Yes ! I think your right.

Dubred · « **Reply #103 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:17:27 am »

Quote from: Johnnyboy1973 on August 13, 2007, 09:45:56 am

So Dubred, Owen was a legend?

IMO yes. He was one of our most prolific strikers, won trophies at a time we were crying out for success.

Why, when someone like Owen, is afforded the term Legend, is he automatically compared to perhaps other legends like Dalglish? Surely like everything else, there are different levels even within the term legend. If there wasnt then we would only have one legend - Kenny Dalglish.

Souness hardly endeared himself to fans during his managerial term and some of the 'events' that happened back then, but of course he is a Liverpool legend.

Regardless of what Owen did when leaving the club, it can not be forgotten what he brought on the pitch.

Life is full of opinions so I dont expect you to agree with me but yes, I would afford Owen the legend status, although Fowler, for example, is a bigger legend.

boyham · « **Reply #104 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:17:35 am »

Good player, not a legend. If you have to debate it, they are certainly not a legend.

He has just jumped on the band wagon that most pundits do, hear something another has said and just go with that, no need to slate him any more than others just because he played for us.

bigbear · « **Reply #105 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:23:49 am »

In 98-99 he carried the team. Ran his arse off with a load of shit around him.

One of the worst nights of my footballing life was when we played Leicester at home in 1999 and Utd were playing Juve away. They came from 2-0 down to win 3-2 as part of their treble year and we lost 1-0 to a last minute goal to Ian fcuking Marshall.

I actually wanted to stay at home and watch the Mancs as I hoped they'd get beat but knew it would be a good game and I knew our game would be awful which it was. However, I just couldn't do that.

However, the point of the story was that MacManaman ran himself into the ground that night playing next to a load of shit, I can't remember our side but I couldn't have blamed him for leaving and especially not to Real Madrid for a pot of cash. He was also always someone who was abit more interested in other cultures etc so it was a good match.

Good luck to him for that but I wish he was a bit more positive about us and made it look like he cares about the club now, or alternatively, go and commentate on Everton for all their big games.

If he was asked a question who he'd prefer to win the Derby, I'm not sure what the answer would be whereas with Robbie you don't even need to ask.

Rox · « **Reply #106 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:29:28 am »

If I came up with a all time Liverpool XI, a second XI and reserves, he wouldn't even come near to the reserves.

His inconsistency held us back as a team, trying to put everything through one man who could only deliver once in every twenty games.

My favourite moment of 'Macca' was when Grobs smacked him one for being a gobby twat.

Life · « **Reply #107 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:32:04 am »

Great player - and I don't say that lightly either.
He'd walk into any Liverpool team since.

Don't know what everyone means about him as a pundit either - not heard him for a few months, but he always sounds intelligent to me.

BIGdavalad · « **Reply #108 on:** August 13, 2007, 10:38:14 am »

Quote from: Rox on August 13, 2007, 10:29:28 am

His inconsistency held us back as a team, trying to put everything through one man who could only deliver once in every twenty games.

I don't think it's really his fault that he was one of only a couple of our squad who knew what to do with the round bouncy thing when he got, is it? We relied far too much on Macca and it showed once teams got wise to it and started putting two man markers on him, but we relied on him because the rest of the team was fucking gash. If he'd have been in a team that was at the level we are now then we wouldn't have had to try and put everything through him and no-one would have noticed that he, like pretty much every other flair player in history, could be inconsistent.

shangtsung · « **Reply #109 on:** August 13, 2007, 11:48:37 am »

Macca would easily be a stand out player for us now.

Dick Emery · « **Reply #110 on:** August 13, 2007, 11:56:38 am »

A slightly better player than an outstandingly average bunch of players we had at that time.

Tim-Cross · « **Reply #111 on:** August 13, 2007, 11:57:55 am »

Good player, could have been great, but i suppose he won enough in Madrid (plus scored in the Champions League Final) to put him in a high class of footballer.

I loved him when i was growing up, and was gutted when he left, although i can understand that he wanted to go to Real, and, unlike Owen, he was right to and it worked out well for him.

I think "Legend" is used too often and i would reserve it for other players, who either acheived more in a red shirt (he only got FA and Coca Cola Cup with us) or had that extra "something" in their on or off the field attitude.

Probably fair to say he stands out as a 90's LFC player with Robbie, although didn't have the "cheeky scouser" tag which Fowler had. But not a legend, i would reserve that for others.

And I would not include Owen in a list of Liverpool legends, just becasue he never felt like a Liverpool player to me, always an England player who also played for us.

shangtsung · « **Reply #112 on:** August 13, 2007, 11:58:53 am »

Owen is definitely NOT a Liverpool legend.

Deadlogic · « **Reply #113 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:08:03 pm »

Macca is far from a "legend", but by the same measure - is far from a big time Charlie too.

On the pitch along with Fowler, he kept the team afloat throughout the 90's (well who else was going to; Ruddock, Babb, Scales, Bjornebye, James, Redknapp, Leonhardsen?), and without him, we would've been fucked.

Let's not forget (as others have rightly pointed out) that Liverpool attempted to sell him without notice to Barca (and the notion that it was "because he was thinking of leaving" is untrue...). He left on his own terms, and in hindsight - who can blame him? Our team at the time was on a downward spiral, and the chance to join Madrid who at that time were rightly regarded as the biggest team in football was (as much as it pains me to say it...) the right move for him.

Off the pitch, don't ignore the fact that Macca along with Fowler donated large amounts of their weekly wage to the Liverpool dockers for almost the entire strike (something which they kept quiet at the time) to help keep food on the tables, and a roof over the heads of the families who were part of the struggle (and I wont go into the work and money he donated; and still does; to various Childrens charities in the city).

Big time Charlie?

Absolute bollocks.

Legend?

No - merely our best player for at least 6 years.

bigbear · « **Reply #114 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:17:33 pm »

Quote from: Deadlogic on August 13, 2007, 12:08:03 pm

Macca is far from a "legend", but by the same measure - is far from a big time Charlie too.

On the pitch along with Fowler, he kept the team afloat throughout the 90's (well who else was going to; Ruddock, Babb, Scales, Bjornebye, James, Redknapp, Leonhardsen?), and without him, we would've been fucked.

Let's not forget (as others have rightly pointed out) that Liverpool attempted to sell him without notice to Barca (and the notion that it was "because he was thinking of leaving" is untrue...). He left on his own terms, and in hindsight - who can blame him? Our team at the time was on a downward spiral, and the chance to join Madrid who at that time were rightly regarded as the biggest team in football was (as much as it pains me to say it...) the right move for him.

Off the pitch, don't ignore the fact that Macca along with Fowler donated large amounts of their weekly wage to the Liverpool dockers for almost the entire strike (something which they kept quiet at the time) to help keep food on the tables, and a roof over the heads of the families who were part of the struggle (and I wont go into the work and money he donated; and still does; to various Childrens charities in the city).

Big time Charlie?

Absolute bollocks.

Legend?

No - merely our best player for at least 6 years.

Certainly one of our best 2 players and well put re the rest.

Grobbelrevell · « **Reply #115 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:19:33 pm »

Quote from: Life on August 13, 2007, 10:32:04 am

He'd walk into any Liverpool team since.

Is right.

Including this one.

Grobbelrevell · « **Reply #116 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:22:59 pm »

Quote from: Deadlogic on August 13, 2007, 12:08:03 pm

Macca is far from a "legend", but by the same measure - is far from a big time Charlie too.

On the pitch along with Fowler, he kept the team afloat throughout the 90's (well who else was going to; Ruddock, Babb, Scales, Bjornebye, James, Redknapp, Leonhardsen?), and without him, we would've been fucked.

Let's not forget (as others have rightly pointed out) that Liverpool attempted to sell him without notice to Barca (and the notion that it was "because he was thinking of leaving" is untrue...). He left on his own terms, and in hindsight - who can blame him? Our team at the time was on a downward spiral, and the chance to join Madrid who at that time were rightly regarded as the biggest team in football was (as much as it pains me to say it...) the right move for him.

Off the pitch, don't ignore the fact that Macca along with Fowler donated large amounts of their weekly wage to the Liverpool dockers for almost the entire strike (something which they kept quiet at the time) to help keep food on the tables, and a roof over the heads of the families who were part of the struggle (and I wont go into the work and money he donated; and still does; to various Childrens charities in the city).

Big time Charlie?

Absolute bollocks.

Legend?

No - merely our best player for at least 6 years.

Well put mate.

Think people believe far too much of what they read in the gutter press to be honest. The papers inflate a 'story' to make headlines and everyone swallows it as the truth.

EndOfTheStorm · « **Reply #117 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:47:56 pm »

McManaman

Life · « **Reply #118 on:** August 13, 2007, 12:48:24 pm »

Quote from: Istanbul05 on August 13, 2007, 12:22:59 pm

Well put mate.

Think people believe far too much of what they read in the gutter press to be honest. The papers inflate a 'story' to make headlines and everyone swallows it as the truth.

I know, us of all people too. Wasn't the Fowler t-shirt thing really Macca's idea, but Fowler just got the goal first, otherwise it would have been Macca showing the doCKers t-shirt to the world?

Quote from: shangtsung on August 13, 2007, 11:58:53 am

Owen is definitely NOT a Liverpool legend.

And it's all about opinions eh, but our top scorer for 6 seasons, the trophies we won in 2001 and 2003 and his part in them all say he is in my book.

They're two players who seem to get no respect ound these parts - short, short memories some people have...or they're bitter enough to make an evertonian blush...

Joe Rogans Chin · « **Reply #119 on:** August 13, 2007, 01:20:27 pm »

Absolute utter Garbage being posted in this thread, think the treble year, Istanbul and Cardiff have clouded a few peoples judgement of McManaman and his contribution to LFC from his break through as a raw teenager till the time he left for Real Madrid.

The lads playing ability is unquestioned, the best player Ive seen for us bar Gerrard. You don't get to play for Liverpool & Real Madrid and win European trophies unless you are truly a great player.

At the time of his move to Real, he was the most sought after player in Europe.

It's already been stated that he carried us between 98 - 99, I'd go further and say it was for a lot longer, at least 4 season from 1995.

Yes, he's a blue nose and now says some things on setanta that we might not want him to, but the fact that he left on a Bosman seem's to have made a few Reds bitter, just like peoples attitude to Owen.

Both are Legends in my eyes, just a shame some of you can't seem to admit how important both where to LFC during their times with the club. What Gerrard is to us now, both Owen and McManaman where at different periods for LFC.