Topic: Man City - cheating bastards rumbled

[Lynndenberries]

City only got away with it last time on a technicality - Don't think they'll be so lucky this time

Exactly. This isn't just about teams like us or United who lost titles, which is obviously massive. This also affects Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Leicester, basically anyone who narrowly missed out on European places because of what they have done. Clubs throughout the league should be up in arms about this. City have arrogantly belittled everyone.

[lfc_col]

They have zero access. HMRC does not have a legal disclosure gateway with the PL. These payments were almost certainly disclosed to HMRC

Plus arent they HMRC pretty ruthless at times too

[lfc79]

I wondered about that. The ramifications touch so many aspects (broadcasting contracts, bonuses, add-ons, prize money, trophies, gambling payouts etc). The fallout is massive and widespread

Apparently bookies T&C are that bets are paid out on the official result at the time, so subsequent disqualifications etc do not matter.

[stockdam]

It's brilliant stuff:

"The whole thing stinks, I think football was more enjoyable before this Premier league bollocks. I know we've been blessed with the last 15 years of our success but the money has taken over to the detriment of the game. As a club we can't go on allowing ourselves to be butt fucked all the time, we need to go after the clubs /people setting the narrative."

So on one hand it's great that they had 15 years of success but now money is ruining the game! Say wot! Which club has ruined the game? He may as well have said "let's go after the PL with all the ill-gained money we have".

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Any punishment should then be expanded into new wider PL/EFL rules to prevent barbarians such as Qatar/Saudis etc from owning PL clubs, due to their horrendous human rights abuses.

[Sharado]

"if that means fooking the Premier league up and collapsing it then brilliant let’s go back to the days when it was a fair sport and not corrupted to help certain clubs to remain at the club"

I mean that's literally what I'd like to happen, so fair play to them imo.

[JackWard33]

Man City stripped of their titles? Liverpool being awarded them? Some truly outlandish predictions on here, even by RAWK standards.

Don’t get your hopes up. This has happened before. Accept that City’s punishment will in no way reflect the severity of their wrongdoing.

I don’t think they’ll do anything retroactive …. But in fairness this has never happened before in the premier league

[Statto Red]

Man City stripped of their titles? Liverpool being awarded them? Some truly outlandish predictions on here, even by RAWK standards.

Don’t get your hopes up. This has happened before. Accept that City’s punishment will in no way reflect the severity of their wrongdoing.

United have been cheated out of a couple of titles by City's cheating too, not just us, if United kick up a fuss over this, then i can see City being stripped of the titles, but i'm not expecting much to come from it other than a fine.

[rafathegaffa83]

We were the best non doped team the seasons we finished 2nd, we smashed over 90pts in 2 of them, we well earned the medals and the trophies, so I'm happy to be retrospectively awarded them

Absolutely. They were well earned. Both ourselves and Man Utd should be awarded. Having a title not awarded label next to so many would be an absolute embarrassment for the PL

[Schmidt]

If they dont, then I'd imagine the Super League moves a lot, lot closer.

The Super League that City were invited to?

[CowboyKangaroo]

Plus arent they HMRC pretty ruthless at times too

Having provided legal advice on a fair few HMRC (including some FIS) investigations in my career, tenacious is the word I would use.

[Sharado]

If they dont, then I'd imagine the Super League moves a lot, lot closer.

I think this is an interesting point. If this investigation is toothless, and the punishment not significant, then the competition's rules are meaningless aren't they?

So why do massive clubs like liverpool, united, blah blah you know the ones need to stick around in a league that is the plaything of a nation state or two?

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

These charges... definitely backed up with evidence?

I'd settle for them having a transfer ban imposed sometime between now and May 31st, if it meant a decent shot at Bellingham.

Hard to see punishment being inflicted when this news would not have come as a shock to anyone.

[Darren G]

I still cant still the PL doing much to them there spineless they wont want to risk upsetting city owners

It's been a four year investigation, the result of which is 100 breaches by City over 14 years.  I don't think that the PL will give a flying fuck about upsetting the City owners at this point . The nature of City's response won't exactly put them in the PL's good graces either.  I was as sceptical as anybody on here about the UEFA/CAS shit-show, but I agree with Lynndenberries in that this feels different.

[lfc79]

Plus arent they HMRC pretty ruthless at times too

I guess that would be the one good thing if City did fight any ruling having players give evidence under oath about what payments they received, the truth ids beyond just Man City, the player who signed on those kind of deals are cheats too.

Sadly no-one cares, look at Messi, I would give any player a lifetime ban from the world cup for tax evasion.

[rob1966]

I still cant still the PL doing much to them there spineless they wont want to risk upsetting city owners

Spineless is doing nothing, this is now all over the media all over the world. Its massive and they cannot just sweep this under the carpet now.

[PeterTheRed ...]

But they almost certainly haven't. The information they are required to disclose to the PL is different to the information they are required to disclose to HMRC. Breaking a private organisations rules is one thing. Committing a serious crime is another

If they are convicted by the PL for their cheating, they will inevitably be investigated by the financial authorities as a consequence. Fake accounting, double bookkeeping, money laundering, tax evasion. All of these crimes will be under consideration ...

[Coolie High]

These charges... definitely backed up with evidence?

I'd settle for them having a transfer ban imposed sometime between now and May 31st, if it meant a decent shot at Bellingham.

Hard to see punishment being inflicted when this new would not come as a shock to anyone.

20 points deducted for the next season and a 4 window transfer ban would do.

[rocco]

So this goes to a three man panel then appeal goes to another new three man panel , then decision is final

?

[rob1966]

The Super League that City were invited to?

That was trying to reign them in, they will never be included in it now.

[El Lobo]

The Super League that City were invited to?

Thats the one

[jillcwhomever]

I'd love to see them relegated and the titles handed over but surely that won't happen will it

No one knows as this is a completely new situation there are a number of punishments they could unleash on them if guilty. Anything from points deduction, fines or even relegation.

[Sharado]

20 points deducted for the next season and a 4 window transfer ban would do.

Cheslea got a 2 window ban for 2 breaches btw.

City have over 100.

Strip their titles and relegate them.

[CowboyKangaroo]

If they are convicted by the PL for their cheating, they will inevitably be investigated by the financial authorities as a consequence. Fake accounting, double bookkeeping, money laundering, tax evasion. All of these crimes will be under consideration ...

Fraud would be only one (and given the PL is pursuing their on sanctions without referring the case to the FCA/relevant body this seems remote to me). All the others would be dependent on what they have disclosed to the relevant statutory bodies (of which there is absolutely no evidence that they have misrepresented anything there). They also cannot be convicted by the PL. They are not a prosecuting authority of any kind. The rules they are being accused of breaching are not legal in nature.

[RedSince86]

They have allegedly paid managers and players off the books according to charges brought by the Premier League.

They gave Pellegrini a Lowry painting, must have been worth a few millions to knock off the compensation letting him go with years left on his contract.

[Coolie High]

Cheslea got a 2 window ban for 2 breaches btw.

City have over 100.

Strip their titles and relegate them.

Bloody ell.

[Barneylfc∗]

I wondered about that. The ramifications touch so many aspects (broadcasting contracts, bonuses, add-ons, prize money, trophies, gambling payouts etc). The fallout is massive and widespread

Apparently bookies T&C are that bets are paid out on the official result at the time, so subsequent disqualifications etc do not matter.

Correct

If that's a serious question - No, it's time barred 

I 'won' over £1300 on BetVictor on Gareth Bale scoring a free kick v Ukraine in the world cup play off last summer but they refused to pay out. It was initially given as an own goal but changed to a Bale goal months later. It's in the T&Cs that markets being changed over 72 hours (Maybe 48, can't remember) after the event won't change the settlement.

[Samie]

Perez will fuck them over somehow with the European Super League. 

[Lynndenberries]

Spineless is doing nothing, this is now all over the media all over the world. Its massive and they cannot just sweep this under the carpet now.

They would be putting their product at risk if they just let it go.

[clinical]

FSG and Glazers should sue them for loss of earnings. This could become huge. If they have cheated which we all know they have it could get worse for them.

[didi shamone]

So this goes to a three man panel then appeal goes to another new three man panel , then decision is final

?

Six new millionaires

[Black Bull Nova]

And, just on football, as everyone is talking about our failures. Is there any explanation why City are Shitty this year when all they have done is add the world's most prolific striker who is currently breaking all records?

[naka]

20 points deducted for the next season and a 4 window transfer ban would do.

asterisk beside their league/cup wins and relegation to league 2
punishment has to be meaningful

[Samie]

I saw we kick them out of the ESL.

[CowboyKangaroo]

For those thinking there are criminal implications beyond fraud by misrepresentation (which seems remote) - do you realise how much harder it is to get away with that stuff (with absolutely no benefit - they don't care about paying a tax bill) than accounts submitted to the PL?

[PeterTheRed ...]

I'd love to see them relegated and the titles handed over but surely that won't happen will it

At this point, no one really knows what will be the outcome. The fact that the charges have been made by the PL, and not by the FA, and the fact that Man City can't appeal any punishment to CAS, makes it very interesting ...

[Coolie High]

Six new millionaires

 

[Kopenhagen]

Cheslea got a 2 window ban for 2 breaches btw.

City have over 100.

Strip their titles and relegate them.

Oof. I'm listening now!

[rocco]

Six new millionaires

It’s the one bloke that picks both panels

[Reds r coming up the hill]

Any punishment should then be expanded into new wider PL/EFL rules to prevent barbarians such as Qatar/Saudis etc from owning PL clubs, due to their horrendous human rights abuses.

So in addition with Their owners refusing to co-operate since 2018 how are they allowed to compete in the league when they are refusing to abide by the leagues rules in submitting required financial documents. Surely the PL can and should kick them out right now, until they hand over the docs they should be suspended from the league immediately.