Author Topic: Suarez and Liverpool FC  (Read 70544 times)

Online TepidT2O

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #640 on: June 25, 2014, 07:54:15 pm »
That would be great, can't see it though.

This looks to me like a perfect opportunity for FIFA to 'prove' it is cleaning up its act by giving a very over the top penalty to a star player. It won't impact FIFA as he is out of the World Cup anyway and probably helps Brazil's laborious trudge to the latter stages.

Luis has only got one chance of getting off with this. Hard cash/15 brown envelopes/FIFA's exec turn a deaf'un.
I'm not sure that FIFA really care about proving that though....

He could get nothing if the ref says he saw it and didn't see anything in it, he could get four games for violent conduct.... Or he could get two years....

It's impossible to tell.... But we will know by Saturday one way or another at least
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Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #641 on: June 25, 2014, 07:55:00 pm »
Saw an angle from a Brazilian sports channel yesterday and from that angle it looks bad.

I'm hoping it's only a 4 match international ban.

Oh yeah, and all the ex players should stop answering their f-ing phones right now.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #642 on: June 25, 2014, 07:55:50 pm »

So you're saying that Liverpool players can do anything when they're away from club and wont reflect on us?
Doesn't make any sense to me, of course this reflects on Liverpool, ridiculous to say otherwise.

No I'm not saying that, John.

I'm saying that we have to take the individual case on its merits, see how severe - or not - it is, and then make a judgment from there.

People want him sold for being an idiot. I can't comprehend the idea of selling a player because he did something stupid on the field in the heat of the moment.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #643 on: June 25, 2014, 07:55:56 pm »
He's become a danger to the team. For example, Gerrard never realized how close to danger he was:



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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #644 on: June 25, 2014, 07:56:09 pm »
Fair enough mate but for me he is only matched by Dalglish for being a genius on the pitch. We`ve had some greats in our time, Rush, Fowler, Keegan, Hunt, Torres and Owen (both for a short while) to name but a few, but none of them come close to Dalglish and Luis for sheer jaw dropping magic.

That's why I don`t care about selling at his peak/resale value. We could win the league with Luis and we also could end up fifth but the magic he provides along the way is worth it for the memories.

There is a an argument to be had about what he brings to the clubs image, but fuck it mate, the magic in his boots and his sheer will to win blows away any issues I have with that.

Good points.  It's not really that I want to sell him just because of the resale value, it's that the timing of this incident combined with his age and all the previous issues might convince the club to start listening more seriously to offers, as long as they meet our valuation of course.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #645 on: June 25, 2014, 07:56:30 pm »
As far as I'm concerned, he stays if he wants to stay, we stick by him. I believe if the club do wish to wash their hands, then that decision comes from the top, out of fear of marketing meltdown. Which is a fucking shame, but that's modern football when you have a big brand like us to market. If we (they) keep him, I think I'd actually be really proud of the club.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #646 on: June 25, 2014, 07:56:53 pm »
whatever the owners do, will be the right choice. but ex players are letting the club down by speaking out and putting pressure on brendan/fsg

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #647 on: June 25, 2014, 07:57:10 pm »
No I'm not saying that, John.

I'm saying that we have to take the individual case on its merits, see how severe - or not - it is, and then make a judgment from there.

People want him sold for being an idiot. I can't comprehend the idea of selling a player because he did something stupid on the field in the heat of the moment.

I agree, but when it happens three times, and it's broadcast globally, it's a little more severe a situation I think.
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Quote from: shanklyboy on April  3, 2006, 12:04:44 AM

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #648 on: June 25, 2014, 07:57:26 pm »
Agree for the most part, my main point is that in a year or two Luis's value will drop considerably, and if we don't win anything next season or look like we will soon, Luis will, IMO, push for a move anyway. 

Well hopefully the club have slightly more optimism and drive and think we may well actually win the league in the next next year or two, rather than thinking 'well, may as well sell anyone at their peak in value as may not win the league'.

Quote
But I want to support him, the main thing is he needs to get his behaviour sorted out, whatever that requires.  There is an argument to be made that he is tarnishing LFC's image, which while sometimes overblown, is a legitimate concern I think.

Is there any evidence of the image being tarnished? I mean we've got record commercial income, huge for a club not in the CL, and thats on the back of two domestic bans for incidents involving Suarez whilst in a Liverpool shirt.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #649 on: June 25, 2014, 07:57:28 pm »
As far as I'm concerned, he stays if he wants to stay, we stick by him. I believe if the club do wish to wash their hands, then that decision comes from the top, out of fear of marketing meltdown. Which is a fucking shame, but that's modern football when you have a big brand like us to market. If we (they) keep him, I think I'd actually be really proud of the club.
Exactly.... But by fuck, he's going to be wearing a gum shield in future
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #650 on: June 25, 2014, 07:58:20 pm »
the fact that our rivals want us to sell him now, or for the fact that they want him to get a 2yr ban in all competitions, just makes me love him even more
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #651 on: June 25, 2014, 07:58:20 pm »
We need to train him to throw an elbow or head butt the next time he feels the urge taking over him. Ok to do that.

Diego Costa threw the nut in Spain's first game at a corner. Ignored.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #652 on: June 25, 2014, 07:58:47 pm »
Well hopefully the club have slightly more optimism and drive and think we may well actually win the league in the next next year or two, rather than thinking 'well, may as well sell anyone at their peak in value as may not win the league'.

Is there any evidence of the image being tarnished? I mean we've got record commercial income, huge for a club not in the CL, and thats on the back of two domestic bans for incidents involving Suarez whilst in a Liverpool shirt.

All right, you've convinced me.  I'm talking bollocks.   :)
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Quote from: shanklyboy on April  3, 2006, 12:04:44 AM

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #653 on: June 25, 2014, 07:59:00 pm »
It's violent conduct towards an opponent, and it's unusual.

But how do you define how more wrong a bite is, really? Can you really ban someone for longer than the standard violent conduct just because it was done in a bizarre fashion? I don't know.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #654 on: June 25, 2014, 07:59:26 pm »
Apparently a decision will be made tonight or tomorrow


@richard_conway: Breaking: Fifa disciplinary panel member tells BBC Sport he believes a decision on Luis Suarez will be made "tonight or tomorrow."
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Offline bclfc

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #655 on: June 25, 2014, 07:59:33 pm »
We need to train him to throw an elbow or head butt the next time he feels the urge taking over him. Ok to do that.

Diego Costa threw the nut in Spain's first game at a corner. Ignored.

That's probably a good idea... Luis, here is a more, er, constructive way to go about it...
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Quote from: shanklyboy on April  3, 2006, 12:04:44 AM

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #656 on: June 25, 2014, 07:59:34 pm »
Now how about instead of throwing out random names and rebutals and unresearched facts about 1000's of Uruguayans ... instead you give me examples of completely normal, down to earth favela kids who made it to the top and didnt exhibit wild behaviour.

No. Because I can't and you know I can't, no more than you can prove otherwise. So why are you trying to draw me into an argument that neither of us can prove? because I disagree with you? - I'm sorry, but if you're saying it is in Luis' culture, then you prove it. There are and have been thousands of players who will have trained as children in similar or worse situations, yet do not exhibit this type of behaviour (x3). 

Could it be that it could just be Luis? (The Horror of it).
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #657 on: June 25, 2014, 08:00:31 pm »
He's like Dennis the menace pulling the pants down on defenders and Gnasher all rolled into one :D

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #658 on: June 25, 2014, 08:00:48 pm »
I agree, but when it happens three times, and it's broadcast globally, it's a little more severe a situation I think.

Only if you pay attention to the media.

For me, it's just a temperamental player being stupid.

Last month, I heard an opposition player call another player a "f'n Asian slant"

Is a bite or attempted bite worse than that?
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #659 on: June 25, 2014, 08:01:17 pm »
Well hopefully the club have slightly more optimism and drive and think we may well actually win the league in the next next year or two, rather than thinking 'well, may as well sell anyone at their peak in value as may not win the league'.

Is there any evidence of the image being tarnished? I mean we've got record commercial income, huge for a club not in the CL, and thats on the back of two domestic bans for incidents involving Suarez whilst in a Liverpool shirt.
We could even be cute and market that side of him, the troubled street kid come good.

Settled family life, lovely wife, 2 lovely kids, national hero but the dark side lingers despite his valiant attempts to overcome it.

The dark side costs him is life long dream.......now he is on the road to redemption and determined to take his club and all those that stuck with him to glory......

Offline iamrobk

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #660 on: June 25, 2014, 08:01:54 pm »
Apparently a decision will be made tonight or tomorrow


@richard_conway: Breaking: Fifa disciplinary panel member tells BBC Sport he believes a decision on Luis Suarez will be made "tonight or tomorrow."
Hope its tonight just so we can find out what it is and get on with things. Its the uncertainty thats the worst.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #661 on: June 25, 2014, 08:02:23 pm »
No I'm not saying that, John.

I'm saying that we have to take the individual case on its merits, see how severe - or not - it is, and then make a judgment from there.

People want him sold for being an idiot. I can't comprehend the idea of selling a player because he did something stupid on the field in the heat of the moment.



Fair enough, seemed like you were saying that because he wasn't playing for us that it doesn't reflect on us.
I'm not fussed to be honest... We should keep him and help him and get him the help he needs.
Yes the world hates him, yes the rest of the Premier league fans and UK media are doing their best to hype and ramp it up and get him banned, but fuck 'em.

I do understand those sayng we should sell him and cash in etc, I don't agree and I think he's key to us winning trophies, but I do see the argument for his sale and there was talk of him leaving before this.
He certainly wanted to a short time ago, We'll just wait and see how this all pans out I guess

The best result would be he stays at Liverpool and this puts off the Spanish clubs, he gets a short international ban and someone else does something even more stupid and violent at the World Cup and this is forgotten.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 08:09:07 pm by johnsmithlfc »
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #662 on: June 25, 2014, 08:02:34 pm »
I'd genuinely rather be bitten (non-invasive) than have my leg broken.
What! I'd literally rather be hung from my nipples by meat hooks, with alsatians snapping at my bollocks, all the time being forced to wear a pair of flip flops, than be bitten.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #663 on: June 25, 2014, 08:02:40 pm »
Hope its tonight just so we can find out what it is and get on with things. Its the uncertainty thats the worst.
If it's tonight Brazil time, it will be in the morning here don't forget
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #664 on: June 25, 2014, 08:03:57 pm »
Good points.  It's not really that I want to sell him just because of the resale value, it's that the timing of this incident combined with his age and all the previous issues might convince the club to start listening more seriously to offers, as long as they meet our valuation of course.

I couldn´t give a shit about resale value. Luis Suárez is a player that wins leagues and cups. It's exactly that reason why Cantona was begged to stay at United by Ferguson when he wanted to leave England. He came back and delivered 2 leagues and an FA Cup (with the only goal in the final against us) in 2 years. He flykicked and repeatedly punched a supporter. In contrast, Suárez bit an opposing player on the shoulder.

If found guilty, Suárez will be punished and rightly so. Liverpool should stick by and rehabilitate him as far as possible. Then let him go out and win us a few trophies before selling him at 29 for stupid money by which time we could be at the very top picking up the next Neymar and trying to work out how to minimize our risk when those bad habits learned as a kid resurface.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #665 on: June 25, 2014, 08:04:01 pm »
Only if you pay attention to the media.

For me, it's just a temperamental player being stupid.

Last month, I heard an opposition player call another player a "f'n Asian slant"

Is a bite or attempted bite worse than that?

Sure, but we all pay attention to the media.  Otherwise, we wouldn't even know this had happened, or that there was a shitstorm brewing about it. 

And a bite AND a racial slur are both bad, not mutually exclusive.
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Quote from: shanklyboy on April  3, 2006, 12:04:44 AM

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #666 on: June 25, 2014, 08:04:38 pm »
Apparently a decision will be made tonight or tomorrow


@richard_conway: Breaking: Fifa disciplinary panel member tells BBC Sport he believes a decision on Luis Suarez will be made "tonight or tomorrow."

Do FIFA have an "independent" committee or is it Blatter and a couple of guys from the Seychelles who make the decision?
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #667 on: June 25, 2014, 08:04:57 pm »
We could even be cute and market that side of him, the troubled street kid come good.

Settled family life, lovely wife, 2 lovely kids, national hero but the dark side lingers despite his valiant attempts to overcome it.

The dark side costs him is life long dream.......now he is on the road to redemption and determined to take his club and all those that stuck with him to glory......



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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #668 on: June 25, 2014, 08:05:45 pm »
FIFA, the ultimate arbiters of ethical goodness and truth. Right.
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Quote from: shanklyboy on April  3, 2006, 12:04:44 AM

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #669 on: June 25, 2014, 08:06:47 pm »
Sure, but we all pay attention to the media.  Otherwise, we wouldn't even know this had happened, or that there was a shitstorm brewing about it. 

And a bite AND a racial slur are both bad, not mutually exclusive.

I know they are both bad, but they are not equal in magnitude.

But people are treating Suarez's incident as if it was on par with racism, drugs, match-fixing or domestic violence, rather than the stupid incident on the field caused by a flash of the red mist that it is.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #670 on: June 25, 2014, 08:08:26 pm »
I know they are both bad, but they are not equal in magnitude.

But people are treating Suarez's incident as if it was on par with racism, drugs, match-fixing or domestic violence, rather than the stupid incident on the field caused by a flash of the red mist that it is.

To be honest, I think the whole Evra incident has clouded judgment on this anyway (and no, we don't need to get into that, I know it was BS for the most part).  What I mean is, these three bites on their own points to a psychological pattern of misbehaviour, but that coupled with the Evra thing plants in some people's minds that Luis is just a "bad person" basically.

I watched the ESPN coverage here in the US and Van Nistelrooy and Roberto Martinez were just aghast.  Almost speechless, on live television. Then they played all three biting episodes, and then added "oh, and also convicted for racism".  And oh, by the way, he plays for Liverpool.  This was broadcast to millions of people.  I mean, it just isn't good.  Luis, FFS, get your shit sorted, mate.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 08:13:05 pm by bclfc »
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Quote from: shanklyboy on April  3, 2006, 12:04:44 AM

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #671 on: June 25, 2014, 08:09:09 pm »
Apparently a decision will be made tonight or tomorrow


@richard_conway: Breaking: Fifa disciplinary panel member tells BBC Sport he believes a decision on Luis Suarez will be made "tonight or tomorrow."

Sooner the better than we can get back to how good the World Cup has been

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #672 on: June 25, 2014, 08:09:09 pm »
There are a couple of things i cannot get my head around regarding this situation. Firstly what happened to innocent until proven guilty. For me Suarez has already been hung drawn and quartered in a pretty despicable example of trial by media. Shouldn't we be waiting and finding out what the actual evidence is before we prejudge the issue. What I have seen upto now is pretty inconclusive.

Secondly what happened to our ethos of us being a family. If and for me it still an if Luis has done something wrong then what happened to rallying around and supporting each other through the hard times. We are all human and we all mistakes and if Luis has made one then for me we should be rallying around him and supporting him. That doesn't mean trying to be tribalistic and looking to defend the indefensible but acknowledging that we all make mistakes from time to time but you have to recover from those mistakes.

In my twenties  I frequently did things that were wrong and things that I am not proud of and would hazard a guess that the people who are so quick to condemn Luis probably did the same. It's not about the mistakes you make in life but how you react to them that counts.

Why not stick to together ride out the storm and lets see how it pans out.

Al, I don't disagree with you.

I supported Luis through every previous conviction, and I still stand by him. I also know that no one is hurting more right now than Luis himself. In a way he is caught between a vicious circle now of having to come out and apologize or play it down as not to detract from the rest of Uruguay's campaign. If Lugano or whoever maintains that nothing happened, then fair enough. However, FIFA know it happened and they will most likely come out with a statement soon (this evening or tomorrow). From then on it's very important how this situation is handled. If Luis and Uruguay continue to downplay it and maintain their stance it could be extremely damaging for Luis, even more so than right now. It could also have a bearing on Liverpool, because they could disagree with Luis's version of events and force a public apology. Not only that, it could be damaging for Liverpool because Standard Chartered or any one of our commercial partners could turn around next week and say 'fuck this, I don't want to be associated with this shit because it is damaging our brand'. I could be wrong, but the last time this happened didn't they make it clear that this type of behavior has to stop if players are wearing their name on their chest?

I'm far away from England right now, but I have had countless people come up to me asking me why he's done it, and what an idiot he is. They're asking me because I'm a Liverpool fan. They don't even see it from the perspective of Uruguay. I try to explain that he just loses it for a few minutes and he can't control it, but they don't' understand how a grown man can have continuous moments of madness, and attribute that to anything but a deep rooted problem. I don't even care about that, but I care about my club being mocked to the rafters. The most important thing is to change the perspective immediately. Stop trying to beat around the bush and acknowledge the incident, and admit there is a problem. Otherwise he'll continue to be the villian and public enemy #1.

It's a real shame this has happened, and it's a long way back from here. The club will support him, I am sure of that, but we'd be lying if we said they won't talk about it for a great length of time and discuss what potential impact it could have on them as a brand.
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Offline iamrobk

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #673 on: June 25, 2014, 08:09:41 pm »
If it's tonight Brazil time, it will be in the morning here don't forget
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Offline RoverAndOut

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #674 on: June 25, 2014, 08:09:54 pm »
Apparently a decision will be made tonight or tomorrow


@richard_conway: Breaking: Fifa disciplinary panel member tells BBC Sport he believes a decision on Luis Suarez will be made "tonight or tomorrow."

If they make a decision this quickly it won't be a global ban. 3/4 international matches most likely. Enough to rule him out of the WC and a friendly or two.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #675 on: June 25, 2014, 08:10:43 pm »
If they make a decision this quickly it won't be a global ban. 3/4 international matches most likely. Enough to rule him out of the WC and a friendly or two.

Tend to agree but couls see 8 or 10 - miss the rest of this WC and the next FIFA sanctioned event.
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Offline YJT

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #676 on: June 25, 2014, 08:10:51 pm »
I don't think the action was as big a disgrace as it's being made out in the papers. The problem is though that our opinions don't count for much. The FA have already shown what they think of incidents like this. This time last year he was sitting off a 10 match ban. After all the drama surrounding his last bite you would have thought we'd seen the last of this behaviour but a year later he has probably bit himself out of the world cup. That it has happened again after everything which has gone on means it could very likely happen for a fourth time in the future. If he repeats the bite in England or does something similarly mental he's probably looking at a 15-20 game ban. Because of this I don't see why it is so ridiculous to think about selling him.

Of course he may score 40 goals next season winning us the league but based on his previous 4 years he is just as likely to do something really mental and get himself banned for half a season which will ruin at least one if not 2 seasons for us and would cost us shit loads of money in wasted wages and reduced value. I thus think it's only normal a sale will be contemplated if the fees which are rumoured get offered.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #677 on: June 25, 2014, 08:11:00 pm »
No. Because I can't and you know I can't, no more than you can prove otherwise. So why are you trying to draw me into an argument that neither of us can prove? because I disagree with you? - I'm sorry, but if you're saying it is in Luis' culture, then you prove it. There are and have been thousands of players who will have trained as children in similar or worse situations, yet do not exhibit this type of behaviour (x3). 

Could it be that it could just be Luis? (The Horror of it).

I gave you a list of 7 players who have remarkable similarities to Luis' beginnings in football and all demonstrate similar problems. I live right next to the neighbourhood that Edmundo was born and grew up and have seen first hand EXACTLY what happens there. You are talking from a position of zero knowledge, experience and frankly, complete ignorance.

I don´t need to "prove" anything. I can see it. I am telling you what I have seen.

You talk of those thousands of players and yet the examples you have given is someone who grew up in a middleclass family hundreds of miles away from the nearest favela.

Again, you are looking for an exception to a rule. I am not saying there is a rule, merely explaining the reasons why players of that background are SOMETIMES the way they are. Obviously, there will be instances where I am wrong. And, as proven with a list of examples, plenty of cases where I am right.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #678 on: June 25, 2014, 08:11:25 pm »
It's violent conduct towards an opponent, and it's unusual.

But how do you define how more wrong a bite is, really? Can you really ban someone for longer than the standard violent conduct just because it was done in a bizarre fashion? I don't know.

i think grabbing someones balls like Drogba did to Van Bommel is more bizarre,and it's some form of sexual violence

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #679 on: June 25, 2014, 08:11:37 pm »
He's like Dennis the menace pulling the pants down on defenders and Gnasher all rolled into one :D

Loveable rogue!

Expertly put, Dennis the menace and Gnasher are his Jeckyll and Hyde sides
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