Author Topic: Suarez and Liverpool FC  (Read 70539 times)

Offline the 92A

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Suarez and Liverpool FC
« on: June 25, 2014, 10:50:16 am »
Post from Jackh that gives a considered view of how the latest incident effects Liverpool FC. Please note we want this thread to be kept open for sensible debate about how this may effect Liverpool FC. Tabloid type shite will be deleted

Luis Suarez…Luis, Luis, Luis…
 
I initially intended to leave this issue well alone. I didn’t see the closing 2014 World Cup Group D encounter between Italy and Uruguay live, nor Luis Suarez’s alleged (and, let’s be honest, pretty apparent – attempted or otherwise) seventy-seventh minute bite of Giorgio Chiellini.  I was made aware of it before the game finished, though – being shown clips via Twitter, I was asked to offer my opinion.  I found myself struggling for an opinion on it.  I love talking about Luis Suarez – I love watching him play football and I love looking forward to watching him play football during the build-up to a match-day.
 
As a Liverpool supporter, I’ve enjoyed watching some fine talents represent the Club – even during relatively fallow periods between the successes that have punctuated my near twenty-seven years as a supporter. Robbie Fowler, Steve McManaman, Sami Hyypia, Didi Hamann, Steven Gerrard, Xabi Alonso, Luis Garcia, Fernando Torres, can all lay claim to being right up there, but Luis Suarez tops the lot in terms of the sheer pleasure derived from watching him play – even the mere anticipation of it.  Suarez’s performance against Norwich City back in December was just ludicrous – his whole December was; his entire season was.
 
Again, I love talking about Luis Suarez – I love watching him play football and I love looking forward to watching him play football during the build-up to a match-day. Asked to offer an opinion on Tuesday’s incident, though, I just couldn’t summon one.  I figured it was suggestion of some sort of exhaustion about discussing opinions on the controversy that surrounds Luis Suarez – the controversy that he somehow inadvertently but inexplicably courts.
 
The stories are familiar. During the 2010 World Cup, he handled a goal-bound effort late on in the Quarter Final against Ghana – celebrating wildly when, having been dismissed, the subsequent penalty was missed and Uruguay proceeded to the next round.  When he arrived at Anfield, he was serving a ban for biting PSV’s Otman Bakkal whilst playing for Ajax in November 2010.  The infamous race-row concerning Luis Suarez and Manchester United’s Patrice Evra kicked-off less than a year later, in October 2011 – following a lengthy ban, there was a furore over a non-handshake in the return fixture in February.  In April 2013, he allegedly bit Chelsea’s Branislav Ivanovic – unseen by the referee, Suarez went on to score a late equaliser before being issued a lengthy ban spanning the summer.  Sometime during these seasons, tales of Suarez assaulting a referee as a youngster became something between myth and legend – Wright Thompson recently pursued this story in a fantastic article for ESPN.  Whilst serving this ban, he attempted to engineer a move away from Anfield – Manager Brendan Rodgers and the Club’s hierarchy stood firm, however, and neither Arsenal nor Real Madrid could secure Suarez’s services for the 2013-14 season.
 
Luis Suarez then went on to underline his footballing genius during Liverpool’s 2013-14 unexpected title-challenging campaign. ‘Best player in the world’ has long been a two-horse race – it was during the last year, too.  But Suarez was one of those two horses.  Up until last season, Suarez was generally loathed by the footballing world but it was his footballing ability that began to dominate the headlines last season.  The World Cup, drawing England and Uruguay together, brought more of a ‘pantomime villain’ tag than any of the vitriol previously on show – a returning Suarez delivered on his ability during the meeting between the sides, demonstrating his class with two fine finishes to win the match.  Less than ninety-minutes of international football later, Suarez shed the ‘pantomime villain’ tag – inviting vitriol once again through the clash with Chiellini.
 
As I say, I couldn’t be bothered offering an opinion initially. I think I’ve long since reached a saturation point with the controversy that surrounds Luis Suarez – whatever the opinions I have previously attached.  Perhaps Luis Suarez, Liverpool footballer, is one subject that has led me to let my values slip – a guilty pleasure of sorts; a value beyond values.  Perhaps his football, and ours with him, is just so good that I’m willing to take the rough with the smooth.  I suspect I’m not alone amongst Liverpool supporters.  They can hate us for that if they want – I reckon we’re comfortable enough with it.
 
I was in mocking denial when I first heard about Tuesday’s incident. Then, when the tone of the informants suggested truth, it became more of an eye-rolling frustration.  “He has to go”, they said, “£56m plus Alexis Sanchez suddenly sounds good!”.  No (erm…) bite or reaction, though – just a subtle, disbelieving, headshake.
 
Arriving home, I switched on BBC One – preferring to watch Colombia-Japan rather than Greece-Ivory Coast, I switched to BBC Three and my initial disappointment at hearing the voices of Jonathan Pearce and Mark Lawrenson (who really does hate football) was compounded when they began discussing the Luis Suarez incident during the opening moments of the match. Eventually I saw clash between Suarez and Chiellini on the television – first it looked better (less bad?) than the clips I’d seen on phones, then it looked worse; then it looked really bad.  Gary Lineker introduced the segment in a sombre tone, gazing into the camera in a manner suggestive of a news-breaking tragedy having occurred.  Alan Shearer (“the pictures are damning”) and Robbie Savage (“that is absolutely shocking”) offered their condemnation whilst, over on BBC Three, Dion Dublin (calling for a half-season ban) and John Hartson offered theirs.
 
Exchanging a couple of text messages with my Dad and a family friend before taking a look at Twitter and RAWK from behind the sofa, it became clear that this was going to be a tough one to avoid.  There’s also the likelihood of sofa-duty on The Redmen TV’s ‘Brazil 2014 Uncut’ and ‘Reds Roundup’ shows next week – ensuring that the latest Luis Suarez incident is going to have to be on my mind for at least the next six days!  Paul has already alluded to the convenient hysteria that lies ahead and will likely offer initial reaction on Wednesday, whilst a recent tweet of John’s appears wryly amusing in hindsight.  I’ve also got a job to go to tomorrow, so being without an opinion on the incident seems somewhat untenable.
 
Lineker read out some reported post-match quotes of Luis Suarez’s via the BBC – that “these things happen in the box” is no great excuse, nor is it particularly precise use of the term ‘these things’, but there’s an argument for him not being far wrong. There is no excuse whatsoever for biting a fellow professional footballer on the field of play, just as there is no excuse for any person biting another in any scenario – ever (I’m sure we can all hear Chris piping up at this point – I’ll qualify that with ‘maliciously’!).
 
With there being no excuse, I shall make no attempt to excuse Suarez for his behaviour – he was in the wrong and is deserving of a suspension according to footballing rules. In addition, you’d hope and expect that Liverpool Football Club will endeavour to give the incident, it’s causes, and it’s consequences, their attention – indeed, you’d hope that they’ve been doing so behind-the-scenes for fourteen months already.  Luis Suarez engaged Giorgio Chiellini in an act of violent conduct and is fully-deserving of appropriate disciplinary punishment.
 
It’s the hysteria that is frustrating, however. It’s the hysteria that makes the incident frustratingly difficult to avoid.  Everyone involved with or interested in football is going to be talking about this on Wednesday.  Indeed, even some not even interest in football are likely to pass comment and judgement – rather like in the aftermath of the unusual incident between Eden Hazard and the Swansea City ball boy in January 2013.  Suarez’s was an act of violent conduct – not unsual within a footballing context – that was shocking due to its unusual nature.  Pundits have already grapped with the incident – Danny Murphy tip-toed around implying that it would have been more acceptable had Suarez been provoked, whilst Savage and Hartson considered the alleged bite as higher up an imaginary violent-conduct hierarchy than a headbutt or lashing-out with an arm or a leg, respectively.
 
The FA and FIFA definitions of ‘violent conduct’ are almost identical, citing the use of “excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball”.  Hysteria, with apologies for repetition, is what will follow Tuesday’s incident amongst football supporters, commentators, and media, as well as footballing ‘outsiders’.  I wish not to get drawn into a hierarchical assessment of various historical and recent incidents, but a torrent of vitriolic opinion inevitably looms I can’t help but think that it’s somewhat disproportionate to its source – even within the surreal boundaries of the footballing context.  It’s perfectly understandable that the incident will command disproportionate media attention, carrying such news value (a nod to Galtung and Ruge!) – it’s shock value is its most striking attribute, whilst the fact it concerns repeat offender and world-class footballer, Premier League-villain, Luis Suarez only heightens its claim to column inches.  Second-thoughts are surely warranted, however.
 
In earlier cases concerning Luis Suarez, Jermain Defoe’s bite of Javier Mascherano in 2006 has been cited – as Defoe was booked, the FA declined to take subsequent disciplinary action.  The only remotely similar incident that springs to mind immediately is Fernando Torres’ scratch of Jan Vertonghen in 2013 – like Defoe, Torres escaped punishment.  Suarez’s castigation in the coming days will eclipse these examples as if they never existed.  Is it worse?
 
Ben Thatcher’s assault on Pedro Mendez in 2006 is one of the worst footballing offences that springs to mind and the then-Man City player was duly chastised and punished for his offence (the FA applying an initial eight-game ban).  Roy Keane’s horrific and infamous challenge on Alfe-Inge Haaland in 2001 was dealt with in a routine manner until Keane’s revelation that it was pre-meditated prompted the FA to issue a five-match ban.  Many think that Luis Suarez should face greater sanctions due to his World Cup misdemeanour.  Was his act worse than these two examples?  What about Mourinho?
 
In a number of rapid-fire messages to my Dad, having seen the BBC pundits, Twitter, and RAWK offer opinion on Tuesday’s incident, I suggested that Luis Suarez’s act was inexcusable but that ‘thousands’ (this may have been an ambiguous detail, admittedly) of worse offences that have no place on a football pitch have occurred on football pitches. I suspect that ‘thousands’ more will.  Look out for a few of them during this World Cup – you’ll have already seen a couple.
 
I make no apologies for making use of Liverpool-focused incidents – they’re naturally my most convenient resource and I’m writing this well-beyond midnight, midweek. Was Suarez’s act against Chiellini worse than Gerrard on Gary Naysmith (three-match ban)?  Was it worse than Michael Essien on Hamann?  How about Frank Lampard on Alonso, or Daniel Agger on Torres?  Was it worse than when Carragher hurt Nani, or Kevin Mirallas on Suarez himself?  How about Samuel Eto’s hatchet-job on Jordan Henderson?  Thinking about England’s recent World Cup warm-ups versus Ecuador and Honduras, was Suarez’s offence definitely worse than that of Antonio Valencia on Raheem Sterling or Emilio Izaguirre striking the ball at Daniel Sturridge maliciously from close range?  Zinedine Zidane has yet to serve his World Cup ban, whilst Neymar’s recently avoided a ban and serial-‘elbower’ Marouane Fellaini has netted during this World Cup.
 
Again, I wish not to be drawn into tit-for-tat arguments over Luis Suarez’s clash with Giorgio Chiellini but it is clear that there will be an awful lot of comment on the incident and, indeed, there is already a clamour for a significant ban. We await FIFA’s likely disciplinary action, with it seemingly unthinkable that they will take none.  The FA are unlikely to act, though they’d probably love to, due to the precedent it would set – many will, however, turn their attention onto the AUF and Liverpool Football Club to see if any internal action is taken.
 
There’s no excuse at all for Luis Suarez’s apparent bite of Giorgio Chiellini during Tuesday’s 2014 World Cup Group G encounter – nor is there any excuse for any form of violent conduct within a footballing, or any other, environment. He’s fully deserving of any extra criticism that comes his way as a repeat offender, too.  Nor should these throwaway comparisons with other ugly scenes from footballs recent past be seen as making light of Suarez’s act – it was truly despicable and, as with all others, has no place in or out of football.    ‘It wasn’t as bad as…’ just doesn’t cut it as an excuse.
 
My opinion on the act itself goes little beyond that – I can’t revert to the initial mocking denial but the eye-rolling frustration still seems appt. It can’t be blindly ignored but neither do I think it means that Liverpool and Suarez must sever ties.  I just hope that we can see Tuesday’s incident for what it was – Luis Suarez committed a deplorable act of violent conduct and is deserving of disciplinary retribution.  Amidst the inevitable vitriol and hysteria, an act of violent conduct was committed – it should be judged as such, rather than for its novel and shock value.


http://hartejack.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/luis-suarez-giorgio-chiellini-bite-incident/
http://www.theredmentv.com/blog/p/15360
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:47:47 am by The 92A »
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Offline Paul JH

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2014, 11:01:33 am »
Quote
There is no excuse whatsoever for biting a fellow professional footballer on the field of play, just as there is no excuse for any person biting another in any scenario – ever (I’m sure we can all hear Chris piping up at this point – I’ll qualify that with ‘maliciously’!).
 
My opinion on the act itself goes little beyond that – I can’t revert to the initial mocking denial but the eye-rolling frustration still seems appt. It can’t be blindly ignored but neither do I think it means that Liverpool and Suarez must sever ties.  I just hope that we can see Tuesday’s incident for what it was – Luis Suarez committed a deplorable act of violent conduct and is deserving of disciplinary retribution.  Amidst the inevitable vitriol and hysteria, an act of violent conduct was committed – it should be judged as such, rather than for its novel and shock value.


Personally think this is the best I could say about it all. I'm amazed at any LFC fan, of which I've already seen many, trying to deflect, play down or generally dismiss the incident as anything other than what is is, summed up in those few sentences above.
Deserves everything coming his way, and it's impossible to defend or compare or say 'well it wasn't a leg breaker, it's fine' etc.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:04:41 am by The 92A »
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Offline owens_2k

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2014, 11:05:29 am »
At the end of the day if biting comes under violent conduct then it should be punished the same as any other violent conduct violation.

Offline No666

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2014, 11:06:03 am »
A post from Yorky that pretty much sums it up from the World Cup thread:

One day there'll be a statue outside Anfield of Suarez biting an opponent. A bit like that one outside the French national stadium of Zidane head-butting the other Italian.

It's hard to know what to think about Tooth-gate. Those people in outright denial that it even happened (a few Reds, all of Uruguay) are clearly a bit mad themselves. Those talking about it as if it's up there with the Armenian genocide as an international atrocity are even madder. I think I read somewhere that Danny Mills believes Luis should be banned from football for ever. The hypocrisy on all sides is breathtaking. Including mine. If it was Rooney who'd done the biting I'd probably be speaking like Danny Mills. So would you. We're all opportunists at heart.

In truth my first reaction was to laugh. Then I thought about it for a bit and laughed again. Then I felt relieved that he wasn't a wearing a Liverpool shirt when it happened. My main concern now is that our club isn't punished for his crime. I couldn't care a damn if Luis misses the rest of the World Cup but what happened in international football should stay in international football.

The bloke's clearly fucking mad of course - at least when he gets on a footy pitch. We all knew that anyway. It's what makes him dangerous, in both senses of the word. I think he probably does need help, although as a Liverpool fan you'd have to fear a little bit that therapy might also tamper with his genius. A gum-shield might be a better idea. It'd be a little bit humiliating at first (like Pennant's ankle tag) but Luis would probably turn it into a status symbol of some kind after a few outings (think of the potential for new goal celebrations). And a gum-shield would allow defenders to concentrate on the game rather than play in fear of the roving incisor.

Then  again, should defenders be totally free of this fear? Here's the hypocrisy again. I sort of think some defenders should be bitten. I especially think Chiellini should be bitten. Anyone who saw the rest of the Uruguay-Italy game will know what I mean (or anyone who knows anything about Italian football, period). The constant kicking at opponents, the feigning of injury when it was in the Italian interest to waste time, the repetitive clutching at his head in order to get an opponent sent off, and even the little dig he gave Luis less than 30 seconds before he got his comeuppance.

Pirlo too was a candidate for a revenge bite. At one point this fraud turned round and gave Suarez a fearful blow with his elbow. The Ref didn't spot it. Commentators did - on the channel I was watching at least - and called it an 'accident'. Pirlo is seen as some kind of Olympian on the field you see. Hypocrisy again.  In a way, when you think about it, it's no accident that Italians were on the receiving end of both Zidane and Suarez's 'interventions'. As a football nation they've probably elevated gamesmanship and cheating to the highest level over the years. Except Borini of course. Oh, and Aquilani when he was at Liverpool.

Someone made the good point earlier that Luis knows he's done wrong. I bet the regret began to sink in at the same time as the teeth. In fact he was so confused and upset by what he'd done that he started clutching his teeth as soon as he did it. It was almost as if he were saying to FIFA, "Please help me. Take these teeth out. They're not mine!" Then of course he cut a disconsolate figure as he left the pitch. He knew what he'd done and he was frightened and ashamed.

I think he's probably got it out of his system now. I always thought he had three bites in him, not just the two. So did a Norwegian fella, according to the Beeb, who just took the bookies to the cleaners with a crafty punt on a Suarez World Cup bite. Well done that man! But though the last Suarez bite was a big one but this is bigger. The globe watched it. It won't go away. The saddest thing for Luis, I think, is that despite the fact that he's done some incredible things on the footy field and will go on to do much more, he'll always be known now as the footballer who bites. Who cares, right? So long as he wins us the League? Well, I'm sure he will. But that's his look out.


Offline RedPat

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2014, 11:07:29 am »
Fabulous piece thanks.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2014, 11:15:35 am »
I got up this morning and watched the bbc news on the hour headline, and was faced with the the presenter announcing 'Luis Suarez faces a two year ban from football....'. 

I tuned out at that point.  Suarez either seemingly bit or attempted to bite Cellini yesterday & only he knows why, and perhaps even he can't explain it.  But get ready for the inevitable media circus, where hyperbole will abound. 

It's all so fuckin tiresome, predictable and seemingly even inevitable with Suarez.  And yet once it's over and he serves whatever ban (& you'd assume it won't be for two years despite the BBC's 'headline') comes his way I hope he still plays for Liverpool at the end of it.

Offline CoventryYNWA

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2014, 11:18:07 am »
A lot of sense spoken, it's a shame the the journo's and "pundits" do not use the same frame of mind during their "analysis".

It's in excusable. It's wrong. It deserves punishment. There will be dark times for Suarez both on the field and off it and whilst he is a Liverpool player, we need to support him through those times. God only know what goes through his mind in those moments of madness. Sometimes without provocation. He has to find it within himself to seek advice and help to help maintain that, but I will reiterate. He wears the red shirt and he mustn't walk alone.

Offline Reds Flag

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2014, 11:19:45 am »
Good post from Jackh. Suarez is a flawed genius who had a difficult upbringing that occasionally shows through and I'm totally prepared to take the rough with the smooth with him. Biting someone on the football field is a crazy thing to do and if he plays no further part in the World Cup he'll have been justly punished. But that's it. To me it seems very excessive and counterproductive to put on a display of moral outrage. I'm more bothered by the reaction than the incident itself. His behaviour for us this last season was impeccable, really...what happens at the World Cup can stay at the World Cup.

Offline 1892tillforever

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2014, 11:21:34 am »
I got up this morning and watched the bbc news on the hour headline, and was faced with the the presenter announcing 'Luis Suarez faces a two year ban from football....'. 

I tuned out at that point.  Suarez either seemingly bit or attempted to bite Cellini yesterday & only he knows why, and perhaps even he can't explain it.  But get ready for the inevitable media circus, where hyperbole will abound. 

It's all so fuckin tiresome, predictable and seemingly even inevitable with Suarez.  And yet once it's over and he serves whatever ban (& you'd assume it won't be for two years despite the BBC's 'headline') comes his way I hope he still plays for Liverpool at the end of it.
The media circus is indeed as predictable as it is boring, hyperbolic and hypocritical. I mean we see the headline 'Ban This Monster' in The Telegraph. What the fuck? He did an extremely twattish thing and should certainly be severely punished but a 'monster'? Last I checked he didn't kill anyone. The worst thing is that the gullible public and idiot 'fans' of other teams will agree with every word and make him out to be the worst person who has ever existed.

Unfortunately, this does impact Liverpool FC whether we like it or not. Suarez is possibly the most talented player I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt (I'm in my early thirties) but we have to ask the question: Have we got to the 'he's more trouble than he's worth' stage? I'm certainly not saying he is but I understand those who take that point of view.

It will be interesting to see how Brendan, FSG and the club in general handle this situation.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:23:36 am by 1892tillforever »

Offline Reds Flag

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2014, 11:22:29 am »
A lot of sense spoken, it's a shame the the journo's and "pundits" do not use the same frame of mind during their "analysis".

It's in excusable. It's wrong. It deserves punishment. There will be dark times for Suarez both on the field and off it and whilst he is a Liverpool player, we need to support him through those times. God only know what goes through his mind in those moments of madness. Sometimes without provocation. He has to find it within himself to seek advice and help to help maintain that, but I will reiterate. He wears the red shirt and he mustn't walk alone.

We should all remember this.

Offline BabsLFC

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2014, 11:25:42 am »
Im sorry I don't have a long comment to add to this, and I almost find it funny that its "happened" again and obviously he has some mental issues when it comes to being in the "zone" while playing. But can you imagine the look on Brendans face when he saw/heard whats happened?

Offline TSC

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2014, 11:26:44 am »


Gary Lineker introduced the segment in a sombre tone, gazing into the camera in a manner suggestive of a news-breaking tragedy having occurred.  Alan Shearer (“the pictures are damning”) and Robbie Savage (“that is absolutely shocking”) offered their condemnation whilst, over on BBC Three, Dion Dublin (calling for a half-season ban) and John Hartson offered theirs.
 



This is what I thought also once the BBC tuned in to the late games last night & the panel sat their seemingly in collective shock.  It reminded me of the time Diana died, or when the Tsunami hit.  I thought Linekar was going to give the eulogy at one point.   Madness.

Offline Frizzo

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2014, 11:27:52 am »
This article sums up everything I was thinking about posting and more.

Forget about the "what it is and isn't worse than" comparisons, everyone has their own view. On one side, it's animalistic and shocking and one of the worst things you can do to another human being (but is it that much worse than spitting, scratching, or flinging snot at someone?). On the other you have the "how much physical harm did/can it actually do?" argument (but flipping your knob out and waving it at a player might not cause him physical harm, but I'm sure it would still carry a ban).

Neither of these perspectives are right or wrong, just different ways of looking at it.

He has transgressed, and should be punished. The typical suspension for biting seems to be 7-10 weeks (or none if you're English playing in England). I would expect a suspension of this length. The 'repeat offender' bullshit is just that. Will Rafael get a longer ban for his next two-footed tackle because he's done it twice before? No, he'll get 3 games because that's what it's deemed to be worth. This bite has to be treated with the same logic...7-10 games, regardless of whether I or you or anyone think that's too long, or not long enough.

I just can't be having Alan Shearer (a man for whom you could just as easily make a compilation of his kicking, elbowing and stamping as you could his passing, shooting and scoring) moaning on about how he should be "hammered". Oh for the number of camera angles and replays we have now being available back in his heyday.


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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2014, 11:30:20 am »
The media circus is indeed as predictable as it is boring, hyperbolic and hypocritical. I mean we see the headline 'Ban This Monster' in The Telegraph. What the fuck? He did an extremely twattish thing and should certainly be severely punished but a 'monster'? Last I checked he didn't kill anyone. The worst thing is that the gullible public and idiot 'fans' of other teams will agree with every word and make him out to be the worst person who has ever existed.

You can't blame the media. The reason there is such a 'circus' as you describe it is because he has previous. Biting someone on the field of play once is bad enough, but 3 times? Isn't that a total of 5 bans for various indiscretions (to put it mildly) now? There is absolutely no way any of you would be trying to defend him if he wasn't a Liverpool player.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2014, 11:31:36 am »
You can't blame the media. The reason there is such a 'circus' as you describe it is because he has previous. Biting someone on the field of play once is bad enough, but 3 times? Isn't that a total of 5 bans for various indiscretions (to put it mildly) now? There is absolutely no way any of you would be trying to defend him if he wasn't a Liverpool player.

How many times can people say they're not trying to defend him before people understand it?

Offline stewy17

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2014, 11:32:41 am »
He's either not right mentally or he's just basically a fucking idiot.

As great a player as he is I'm personally disgusted with him for this and not because of the ban or anything but more for the piles and piles and piles of negative shit that this is going to throw on our club and our manager and the rest of our young squad.

3 times for fucks sake? and the last two times unprovoked?

Also, lets not play silly and cry and moan about the ensuing media storm. This is the biggest stage in the biggest sport in the world and is going to go down as one of the most infamous incidents ever on that stage. Anyone expecting a lenient or "balanced" view from the media is plain daft, especially after Suarez baiting them after the England game.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was the final straw for the owners and the manager, where do you go next with someone like this?

Cheers Luis, another fine mess lad.

Offline 1892tillforever

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2014, 11:35:35 am »
You can't blame the media. The reason there is such a 'circus' as you describe it is because he has previous. Biting someone on the field of play once is bad enough, but 3 times? Isn't that a total of 5 bans for various indiscretions (to put it mildly) now? There is absolutely no way any of you would be trying to defend him if he wasn't a Liverpool player.
You can clearly see I am in favour of him being punished if you bothered to read what I wrote.

So you think this ridiculous media hysteria is warranted? Of course you are a City fan  ::)

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2014, 11:36:36 am »
For me, it is obvious Suarez has a mental issue where he lashes out in this way for whatever reason.

He isn't constantly diving in with two feet, throwing elbows, or constantly diving in late into tackles - which to me is a deliberately dirty player. He is acting on impulse and without thinking.

For that reason I think he needs help. Yes he needs a ban for what he has done, but he needs the club and it's fans to support him in getting his head around this mental issue he has.

BTW - this view would go if it was for the clubs current best player, or a squad player. He need's help, and hopefully the club continues to give it.

Offline BurnCK

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2014, 11:39:02 am »
How many times can people say they're not trying to defend him before people understand it?

I'm not saying all and it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular...but there's some on here that are. You just have to read their posts.

Even trying to play it down is bad enough.

Me being a City fan has nothing to do with it. I'd be of the same opinion if it was a City player. Biting someone once I could possibly forgive but still would think it despicable...but 3 times? No, sorry.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:40:35 am by BurnCK »

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2014, 11:39:17 am »
Cheers folks.

If you click the links there are actuality links to articles, images, and videos to colour my words a little!

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2014, 11:40:09 am »
I'm not saying all...but there's some on here that are. You just have to read their posts.
Even trying to play it down is bad enough.

There's trying to play it down, and then there's trying to take a balanced view. It's possible to not think he needs a 2-year ban and still have your head screwed on.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2014, 11:40:23 am »
I find all of the comparisons between dangerous two footed tackles, or other violent conduct and Suarez's biting incident completely misleadingng. What you have here is essentially a player assaulting another player off the ball. It's worse than if he'd just punched the defender in the face, because of risks of infection due to the mouth carrying lots of bacteria. Even if you were brawling in a pub, biting is seen as a no no, it's a societal taboo. Hence the reactions.

Let's put it this way, if someone went around biting people on a regular basis, they'd have a fairly reasonable chance of being sectioned. He needs punishing, but more importantly he needs some sort of psychiatric treatment to help eliminate this quite major character flaw.




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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2014, 11:42:06 am »
You can't blame the media. The reason there is such a 'circus' as you describe it is because he has previous. Biting someone on the field of play once is bad enough, but 3 times? Isn't that a total of 5 bans for various indiscretions (to put it mildly) now? There is absolutely no way any of you would be trying to defend him if he wasn't a Liverpool player.
With respect, we don't need fans of other clubs telling us the score. This is really a thread for a considered response from Liverpudlians. Last thing we want is a partisan club orientated bun fight thanks, we've enough on our plates as it is. ;D
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2014, 11:43:28 am »
Looking at his muted reaction after the match I think it has finally clicked as you could see his mind was going at 100%... He attempted to look happy to with his celebratory team mates & sheepishly blew a kiss to I assume his family in the crowd. No such reactions happened previously.

With the probably ban he has let his country down completely & ruined a shot at the World Cup. After all his club level horrible on pitch acts he has been rewarded with big money moves & multiple new improved contracts so maybe it will have a much bigger impact this time for his country.



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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2014, 11:46:48 am »
I find all of the comparisons between dangerous two footed tackles, or other violent conduct and Suarez's biting incident completely misleadingng. What you have here is essentially a player assaulting another player off the ball. It's worse than if he'd just punched the defender in the face, because of risks of infection due to the mouth carrying lots of bacteria. Even if you were brawling in a pub, biting is seen as a no no, it's a societal taboo. Hence the reactions.

Let's put it this way, if someone went around biting people on a regular basis, they'd have a fairly reasonable chance of being sectioned. He needs punishing, but more importantly he needs some sort of psychiatric treatment to help eliminate this quite major character flaw.

I actually find this stance even more absurd.

He's given him a tiny bite on the shoulder...through his shirt...I don't think it's possible to transmit bacteria like that.

Offline Les Willis

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2014, 11:49:01 am »
I actually find this stance even more absurd.

He's given him a tiny bite on the shoulder...through his shirt...I don't think it's possible to transmit bacteria like that.

A few years back, my Mum lost her rag with my Dad. She bit him on the arm. He ended up in hospital for a month with MRSA.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2014, 11:50:11 am »
For me, it is obvious Suarez has a mental issue where he lashes out in this way for whatever reason.

He isn't constantly diving in with two feet, throwing elbows, or constantly diving in late into tackles - which to me is a deliberately dirty player. He is acting on impulse and without thinking.

For that reason I think he needs help. Yes he needs a ban for what he has done, but he needs the club and it's fans to support him in getting his head around this mental issue he has.

BTW - this view would go if it was for the clubs current best player, or a squad player. He need's help, and hopefully the club continues to give it.

Fuck that if it was Aspas he'd be legging it round Liverpool One with people chasing him with torches and pitchforks

Offline BurnCK

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2014, 11:52:32 am »
There's trying to play it down, and then there's trying to take a balanced view. It's possible to not think he needs a 2-year ban and still have your head screwed on.

Agreed. I don't think he should be banned for 2yrs...but I don't think a 6 month worldwide ban would be over the top considering it's not a first or even second offence. FIFA converted the FA's 8 month domestic ban for Cantona's Kung-Fu kick into a worldwide one.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2014, 11:53:56 am »
Agreed. I don't think he should be banned for 2yrs...but I don't think a 6 month worldwide ban would be over the top considering it's not a first or even second offence. FIFA converted the FA's 8 month domestic ban for Cantona's Kung-Fu kick into a worldwide one.

You're entitled to that view, but I would argue that's excessive. Other repeat offenders don't get massively inflated bans, they just get a penalty proportional to the indiscretion they've committed. So should Suarez here.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2014, 11:56:04 am »
I think its quite naive to think this wont have any effect at all on LFC.

We all know that Suarez is a ticking bomb. But after the Ivanovic incident atleast I tought that this is it.

Now he did in fact let his whole country down. I wonder - When will he let LFC down again?

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2014, 11:57:10 am »
Agreed. I don't think he should be banned for 2yrs...but I don't think a 6 month worldwide ban would be over the top considering it's not a first or even second offence. FIFA converted the FA's 8 month domestic ban for Cantona's Kung-Fu kick into a worldwide one.

That's because you're bias. A world wide ban would be ridiculous as they are normally extended to incidents of match-fixing and doping.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2014, 12:00:36 pm »
Just saying on Sky News 888 poker is reviewing its relationship with Luis and I guess the club.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2014, 12:04:07 pm »
Just saying on Sky News 888 poker is reviewing its relationship with Luis and I guess the club.

Didn't even know there was one until you posted it. 

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2014, 12:04:47 pm »
To be honest, my only emotion is that I feel let down. Not angry. Not embarrassed. Not defiant. Just let down. The kid is a genius, but a flawed one (as so many are).

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2014, 12:05:20 pm »
I feel sorry for him, not because I'm a Liverpool supporter, and not because I condone it at all, but because this is quite clearly a deep-seated mental issue for him that will in all likelihood now end his world cup dream after he's done so much to keep it alive.

He reverts to an animalistic/primitive (some would say aggressive toddler) state in these moments, and seemingly cannot help himself. He does require psychological aid, counselling or CBT or something.


The consequences this will have for himself, Uruguay and us are just so huge now, with him having done it thrice now and served lengthy bans, the last being considered a 'final warning' to amend his behavior (which he seems to have done very well, in Red at least). It's mad, bad, sad.
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Offline Red_Rich

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2014, 12:06:46 pm »
Does anyone know what disciplinary action was taken against Zidane after his headbutt in 2006?

To me, that incident was far worse.

The main thing going against Luis is that it is the 3rd time he has committed this offence and that is why I fear he will get a bigger ban.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2014, 12:07:07 pm »
Agreed. I don't think he should be banned for 2yrs...but I don't think a 6 month worldwide ban would be over the top considering it's not a first or even second offence. FIFA converted the FA's 8 month domestic ban for Cantona's Kung-Fu kick into a worldwide one.

They're not comparable. That was not an in-game incident. You elbow someone another player on the pitch, you get a competition ban. You elbow a fan at the game, you get a ban from football.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2014, 12:09:56 pm »
Just saying on Sky News 888 poker is reviewing its relationship with Luis and I guess the club.

They don't sponsor the club.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2014, 12:11:06 pm »
Luis is probably the most talented player I've ever seen play live and he's probably in the top 5 most talented players we've ever had at the club.

That said I think it's gotten to the point that he's now more trouble than he's worth.  There's a lot of talk on here about not walking alone; well that cuts both ways guys, there comes a point when his club and his country can require him to show a little bit of self control.  What realistic chance do Uruguay have in the last 16 without him?  What chance have we of realistically competing for silverware if he's going to miss 6-10 games a season for totally avoidable or unnecessary bans? 

He also needs to think of the impact that these incidents are having on his family.  You can accuse me of hyperbole if you wish, but Luis himself admitted that his wife had suffered quite badly from the stress following his past controversies.  Luis might not be 100% responsible for the media circus that surrounds him, but he keeps fueling the fire. 

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2014, 12:11:08 pm »
Agreed. I don't think he should be banned for 2yrs...but I don't think a 6 month worldwide ban would be over the top considering it's not a first or even second offence. FIFA converted the FA's 8 month domestic ban for Cantona's Kung-Fu kick into a worldwide one.
Yeah, at the request of the FA to stop him joining a foreign club.  This has nothing to do with the FA.