Topic: The 'Negative Twats Annoy Me' thread

[conman]

True fans are also entitled to be frustrated with some of the players, at the results and to question some decisions.
But of course we should accept those decisions, and understand that we were at best fighting for third and fourth this year and that we are slowly improving. That said, the losing of ground to other teams, and some of the draws has been utterly frustrating and I as a true fan can be also frustrated too.

yea, thats the catch 22 you see... we have beaten the big teams, thus showing that we can compete, but we have had some poor results against average teams that should be our bread and butter... but we dont seem to be a team that have a selected amount of teams that we will always or nearly always pick points from, every season is different from the previous... sometimes fortress anfield, sometimes everyone elses stadiums are our fortresses, we go through phases of beating the smaller teams but not the bigger teams, now we are beating the bigger teams, drawing to the smaller ones... we have had some poor injuries, but we didnt have a replacement, so we shot our selves in the foot there....

im on of the positive supporters, but with a lot of realism and confusion too... but we have all a right to question, but its best to question with a means to create a positive resolution....

[reldinho]

Have to say this is one of the best threads I've seen on RAWK for quite some time.  It has become so tiring reading certain negative twats post the same old shite after every time we fail to get a positive result (we all know who they are) and then go completely silent when we win. I often wonder why those fans actually 'support' Liverpool.  I swear some of them are actually willing us to fail so they can come out with "Rafa is too negative", "Lucas is shit" etc, etc.

[vicgill]

Not being funny lad, but how old are you?
See, the thing about the old days, is just that... they were the old days - we were winning everything in sight. The media wasn't there waiting to pounce on any/every snippet and spinning it meet their agenda. Also, we had strong but silent fellas like Smith and Robinson in the boardroom, but don't think Shanks wasn't ready to use the media everytime he felt like. There was a time when he was threatening to quit every other day until he got his way over what ever it was he wanted. Sadly, nowadays the reverse of all that is the case. But as for Rafa using the media, on some levels - note I said on some levels so don't be going on one - it's not that much different to Shankly's.

And if Rafa hadn't gone public on some occasions - how the fuck would we have known the extent of the shite going on behind locked doors?

But I know what you mean, and I also wish it wasn't happening. But don't confuse the issue and think it's just Rafa making noise for the sake of it.

Good post mate, sums it all up for me.

[Serenity]

some people love moaning for the sake of moaning and are only happy when they're miserable.

thats just it

[gabialonso]

We have no right to demand anything because Liverpool isn't a product. 
[/quote]

I wish I'd said that.

[JimmyGrunt]

Good thread Andy.

To be brutally honest, im more annoyed with our fans instead of the fact that this season has been our best chance to win the league for years and we've fallen short.

I really hate having the same conversation over and over and over. If its not with the negative-moaning-slit-your-wrists-the-worlds-going-to-end posters on here, its lads i go the match with.....knobheads you hear in the pub.....knobheads at work. Im fucking sick of it!

Yes people have issues with Rafa, his decisions etc, ME INCLUDED but i think people just want to think that they no better. But it must be right....its in the paper. Whaaat the fuck!!??

I honestly think that we are improving under Rafa. We've beaten Chelsea and the mancs and yes we've dropped silly points at home, but turning draws into wins can be fine tuned, we just need that extra little spark. 1 or 2 signings that can create something out of nothing for us, just like Torres turned us into a totally different outfit. Give Rafa a decent budget, let HIM basically sign the players he wants, when and how he wants, give him some more time maybe 2 or 3 years or so and see where we are. No point potting him now just because the mancs have won x amount of league titles. You get rid of Rafa now we might aswel say "here you piss-stained old fart,have another 4 league titles, because us, as a club are too impatient to let the seed grow when we've only just begun to water it".

Saying that, a little tiny part of me actually wants Rafa to walk. Let all the know-betters see how we fare then. To look at them all miserable when were battling for a european slot in the league with pompey and the shite. Bernabeu?distant memory. Nou camp? Distant memory. San siro? Distant memory. These are places we've been to and WON.

I don't even want to talk about football full stop at the moment, a result has never made me like this, not even being beat by the bitters 3-0.....the sad thing is its our own fans making me feel that way.

[smicer07]

Our fans weren't even fully behind the team even when we were top of the league. If we'd got behind them at that point, and made every game like a European Cup semi-final, maybe we'd still be up there now. But no, it's far easier to moan and boo than do that.

[conman]

Good thread Andy.

To be brutally honest, im more annoyed with our fans instead of the fact that this season has been our best chance to win the league for years and we've fallen short.

I really hate having the same conversation over and over and over. If its not with the negative-moaning-slit-your-wrists-the-worlds-going-to-end posters on here, its lads i go the match with.....knobheads you hear in the pub.....knobheads at work. Im fucking sick of it!

Yes people have issues with Rafa, his decisions etc, ME INCLUDED but i think people just want to think that they no better. But it must be right....its in the paper. Whaaat the fuck!!??

I honestly think that we are improving under Rafa. We've beaten Chelsea and the mancs and yes we've dropped silly points at home, but turning draws into wins can be fine tuned, we just need that extra little spark. 1 or 2 signings that can create something out of nothing for us, just like Torres turned us into a totally different outfit. Give Rafa a decent budget, let HIM basically sign the players he wants, when and how he wants, give him some more time maybe 2 or 3 years or so and see where we are. No point potting him now just because the mancs have won x amount of league titles. You get rid of Rafa now we might aswel say "here you piss-stained old fart,have another 4 league titles, because us, as a club are too impatient to let the seed grow when we've only just begun to water it".

Saying that, a little tiny part of me actually wants Rafa to walk. Let all the know-betters see how we fare then. To look at them all miserable when were battling for a european slot in the league with pompey and the shite. Bernabeu?distant memory. Nou camp? Distant memory. San siro? Distant memory. These are places we've been to and WON.

I don't even want to talk about football full stop at the moment, a result has never made me like this, not even being beat by the bitters 3-0.....the sad thing is its our own fans making me feel that way.

i feel the same, hearing mates that read the tabloids talk about what they have heard or read and then let it dominate their mind instad of watching the game and debating / talking with other people what watch equally...

and i can see where they are coming from, but lots of people dont ask why such a sittuation exists...
people say why did we sell keane, and thats debatable, but most likely he wasnt Rafa's first choice and thus didnt suit this system we had laid out, wasnt performing so cut his losses... but left us short for the rest of the season... sure...

with Rafa, i think too that we are progressing, and we need to keep him here, atleast another year or 2, and especially if he is given the authority to buy players he wants, but thus far, i think because of money issues, board room stuff, parry, rafas own stubbornness (which is not necessarily bad), injuries etc, we imo are talking 2 steps forward, one step back... so still progressing, but we could be in a better position that we are in.....

[conman]

Our fans weren't even fully behind the team even when we were top of the league. If we'd got behind them at that point, and made every game like a European Cup semi-final, maybe we'd still be up there now. But no, it's far easier to moan and boo than do that.

we need everyone tanked by mid day for every game, get the throats oiled up...
might be better off

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

Our fans weren't even fully behind the team even when we were top of the league.

That still fuckin' flabbergasts me... hmmm flabbergasts, haven't used that word in a while.

[conman]

That still fuckin' flabbergasts me... hmmm flabbergasts, haven't used that word in a while.

were u reminded by your recent bout of flatulence ?

[redrockydennis]

my gast is flabbered

[mooks]

The club is in tatters and an insult to the way it was run in the past...

The way we do our washing in public these days is a disgrace....every day there is a new headline in the papers...

It should not be happening...sort it out!!!

If you really are a scouser then you sort it out by organizing marches and demonstrations against the owners ...

[mooks]

Look its as simple as this....people have a right to be negative when we are on the papers every day for negative reasons...

whoever is to blame i dont think any liverpool fan could pinpoint, its probably the americans but rafa has to be to blame for some of it....

sort it out!!!

As someone asked - how old are you?

[ALANM]

The frustration probably boils down to the fact that we've comprehensively beaten the Mancs and Chelsea, yet failed to beat the likes of Stoke, Fulham, and Hull.

Worst case scenario we'll finish 3rd. 2nd is up for grabs though and that means not having to qualify for CL group stages. The European Cup is also up for grabs. Let's all raise the volume to maximum on Tuesday night. If Real Madrid think the Nou Camp is intimidating then they've seen nothing yet!!

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

2nd is up for grabs though and that means not having to qualify for CL group stages.

The winners don't need to qualify anyway anymore

[Exiled109er]

Its taken the Mancs 24 years to catch us up. We only have to win it next year and they're playing catch up again.

More like 98.  They last drew level with us in 1911.

[conman]

More like 98.  They last drew level with us in 1911.

u may have been exiled, but not long enough to forget  

[skipper757]

Exactly - I remember the press saying we weren't attacking and were dull - and were two years highest scorers - in one season scoring 126 goals - shit loads more goals than anyone else - and the press said we didn't.

And some of our fans and all the other fans believed them.

Those times we absolutely twat someone - the media always claim it's because 'they're shite'

Precisely.  The negativity towards us in the media will rub off on our fanbase.  If you didn't watch a match and didn't check the scores and based everything on the in-game threads and the analysis from media, then you'd probably think we were 19th and 15 points from safety.

Every time the media or other teams and players question us or slag us off, I use that as motivation and look forward to the day when we prove them wrong.  We've had poor results but this season isn't over yet and if we win the title or finish 2nd (only let's say 5 points from the Mancs) then that is improvement.  It's another step we've taken in the long road to 19.  Not to mention our successes year in year out in Europe (both thanks to Rafa).

I was really disappointed after Boro but as the Sunderland match drew closer and closer, I got more and more excited.  It's another match in an unusually strange league season and there's still a long way to go.  Nothing's decided yet in the league and we're looking strong in Europe.  Let's enjoy the rest of the season, which may end quite fruitfully.

[Damo58]

Good thread Andy.

Cheeky bastard took me ages to write that! 

I was getting so wound up I had to write something and I'm glad people agree. I was so annoyed when people booed when we were top of the League. The same people who would never be happy. If we won the league it won't be by enough points, if we won everything we'd still have a go at Lucas.

[Fat Scouser]

True fans are also entitled to be frustrated with some of the players, at the results and to question some decisions.
But of course we should accept those decisions, and understand that we were at best fighting for third and fourth this year and that we are slowly improving. That said, the losing of ground to other teams, and some of the draws has been utterly frustrating and I as a true fan can be also frustrated too.

I'd take that a step further Hinesy... True fans are also entitled to kick right off if they think something is wrong at the club, and try to change it. In fact, it's their duty. As to just follow like sheep, no matter what is going on, is not being a true fan.

Just imagine mate, if it wasn't for the Toll Puddle Martyrs, you wouldn't be getting the big bucks, fast cars and gorgeous girls that you get for moderating.

So, moaning, whingeing and even kicking up fuck is right. The problem is, directing it properly. I'm convinced that shouldn't be in Rafa's direction. Booing the team, and individual players just isn't on anyway. But as far as I'm concerned, a mental blind man on a fast horse should be able to see what Rafa has/is doing for this club. Others just think he's a fat Spanish dumb waiter.

Where is the People's Front Of Judea when you need them, eh.

[lfc_bhoy]

I'd take that a step further Hinesy... True fans are also entitled to kick right off if they think something is wrong at the club, and try to change it. In fact, it's their duty. As to just follow like sheep, no matter what is going on, is not being a true fan.

Just imagine mate, if it wasn't for the Toll Puddle Martyrs, you wouldn't be getting the big bucks, fast cars and gorgeous girls that you get for moderating.

So, moaning, whingeing and even kicking up fuck is right. The problem is, directing it properly. I'm convinced that shouldn't be in Rafa's direction. Booing the team, and individual players just isn't on anyway. But as far as I'm concerned, a mental blind man on a fast horse should be able to see what Rafa has/is doing for this club. Others just think he's a fat Spanish dumb waiter.

Where is the People's Front Of Judea when you need them, eh.

Fat Scouser for Chief Executive.

[Fat Scouser]

Fat Scouser for Chief Executive.

I think you'll find that's Executive Chief, young man. We hate the Chief Executive's.

[Redshadow77]

Scouserscully I see you're one of the usual "prem, prem, prem, attack at all costs" brigade who has not a clue of what they're speaking but their you go - the ignorant always did have the loudest voices no?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe holding the ball and launching continuous attacks WASN'T our problem - No? Maybe if you'd said something like we don't make enough TELLING/CUTTING attacks (i.e. ones that end in goals or near goals) then your pathetic excuse for an argument may hold water and as for finishing your sad little attempt at a post with "we'll NEVER win the league under Rafa'? That's not only pathetic but laughable and it exposes your 'argument' for the useless waste of time it was - WE probably hold the ball better than United do half the time but what we DON'T do as well as them is make OUR attacks count.

Look at the Riverside on Saturday - total domination with god knows how many shots in BOTH halves and? We get done by their only 2 shots of the game, it was the same at White Hart Lane.  But as to we'll never win the league under Rafa'.  Really prat? WHY have we lost only as many games as the invincible (yea right) pieces of crap from OT that you profess to worship? and WHY are we the SAME number of points behind the Mancs' as Chelsea yet EVERYONE talks of a renewed challenge from them and NOTHING from us? Answer that without sounding like an idiot (again) and you MIGHT deserve some of the respect your previous pathetic post lost you.  Anyway - Fergie took SEVEN years to get anywhere NEAR the top of the table - if This is where Rafa' gets us in 5 then where will he have us in 2 more years I wonder?

I bet you weren't our fan in 2004 were you? Somehow I can't imagine someone like you who whines and moans like its the end of the world when we've lost TWO league games all season being around and sticking it out in Houllier's final, awful season when we had DOUBLE that number of defeats by the end of October alone.  No, I think you're just a wind up merchant and that sad excuse for a 'post' ending from earlier shows it - never win the league with Rafa' indeed.  Really? Someone should tell the players then as they seem to be hanging on quite well at present and what do you know? Our next game is OUR chance to do some real damage to the Mancs ourselves - I'd really love that if we did - then maybe we'd shut up the moaners and who knows maybe even make sure YOU have nothing to moan about - Although I'll take one miracle at a time for now......................

[shanklyboy]

My brother in law is one of the most passionate reds I know.
He's been watching Liverpool since the 2nd Division days and has been all over the world supporting his team.

He's also one of the most negative fans I know.
In Paisleys first season we lost at home against Burnley and he said to us on the way to the pub..."That's it lads..........all over for us now. We'll never get back to where we were under Shanks"

Everyone just laughed it off and it was never mentioned again that day as we all knew what he was like.
It was mentioned many times since though.

We ended the season as runners - up, but the rest as they say is history.

He's always been like that, he's a glass half empty feller in all aspects of his life. but in recent years when things have been difficult he's transformed into a level headed, glass half full feller.

Due to ill health he couldn't get to as many games as he used to but for the past few years he's improved health wise and has missed very few matches.

We were talking the other day about the last 20 odd years.....as you do.
I mentioned his change in attitude over the years and he started to explain a few things that should resonate with some on here.

He said that enforced absence has made him realise what he had for all those years. The privilege of witnessing some of the highest and lowest days anyone could imagine.
Seeing the greats of the game playing for us and for the opposition.
Great managers pitting their wits against each other.

Making great friends and sharing so much with complete strangers.
All of this against a background littered with so much silverware, that if we never won another thing it would have been more reward than any group of fans ever thought they would witness or deserve.
He said that the unfair criticism of the team and manager this season has turned his stomach and he felt he needed to support more to counteract it. To defend his club.
Don't get me wrong, I still have arguments with him as he's got many different views to myself.
However......in the ground......he's a supporter.

Negativity isn't something I subscribe to. I don't have time for it. It's a wasted emotion.

Concern is natural and disappointment is the domain of 90% of all football fans. Frustration probably follows in the same proportion.

Saying that, I've never known the level of bile and incredible stupidity spoken by Liverpool fans like this season.
I've been saying since this campaign started that we have far too many who are not up for the fight.We just didn't have enough experience of a roller coaster title race. Seems like Ferguson was right wasn't he?

I still see it as a privilege to be born into this club.
I still go cold when I see the ground looming out of the sky.
When I see that glorious red kit against the lush green of the Anfield pitch,I'm an 8 year old kid standing on a box at the front of The Kop again.
The day that stops happening is the day they they nail the lid down on me.

What a nightmare season this could turn out to be.
What a glorious season this could turn out to be.

Who knows what will happen next at the house of fun?

One thing I do know is that we have a  unique club with a unique set of supporters.

We just have to find each other again.


 

[3rdStone]

as opposed to Man Utd's holding midfielders, who are of course totally attack minded despite playing just as deeply as ours do, not making any more forward runs and not scoring any more goals

I'm glad I'm not the only who noticed this. It's not all that recent a style for them either. For many years in europe and nearly 2 seasons in the league. 2 Players sitting deep and passing sideways.

[lfc_bhoy]

My brother in law is one of the most passionate reds I know.
He's been watching Liverpool since the 2nd Division days and has been all over the world supporting his team.

He's also one of the most negative fans I know.
In Paisleys first season we lost at home against Burnley and he said to us on the way to the pub..."That's it lads..........all over for us now. We'll never get back to where we were under Shanks"

Everyone just laughed it off and it was never mentioned again that day as we all knew what he was like.
It was mentioned many times since though.

We ended the season as runners - up, but the rest as they say is history.

He's always been like that, he's a glass half empty feller in all aspects of his life. but in recent years when things have been difficult he's transformed into a level headed, glass half full feller.

Due to ill health he couldn't get to as many games as he used to but for the past few years he's improved health wise and has missed very few matches.

We were talking the other day about the last 20 odd years.....as you do.
I mentioned his change in attitude over the years and he started to explain a few things that should resonate with some on here.

He said that enforced absence has made him realise what he had for all those years. The privilege of witnessing some of the highest and lowest days anyone could imagine.
Seeing the greats of the game playing for us and for the opposition.
Great managers pitting their wits against each other.

Making great friends and sharing so much with complete strangers.
All of this against a background littered with so much silverware, that if we never won another thing it would have been more reward than any group of fans ever thought they would witness or deserve.
He said that the unfair criticism of the team and manager this season has turned his stomach and he felt he needed to support more to counteract it. To defend his club.
Don't get me wrong, I still have arguments with him as he's got many different views to myself.
However......in the ground......he's a supporter.

Negativity isn't something I subscribe to. I don't have time for it. It's a wasted emotion.

Concern is natural and disappointment is the domain of 90% of all football fans. Frustration probably follows in the same proportion.

Saying that, I've never known the level of bile and incredible stupidity spoken by Liverpool fans like this season.
I've been saying since this campaign started that we have far too many who are not up for the fight.We just didn't have enough experience of a roller coaster title race. Seems like Ferguson was right wasn't he?

I still see it as a privilege to be born into this club.
I still go cold when I see the ground looming out of the sky.
When I see that glorious red kit against the lush green of the Anfield pitch,I'm an 8 year old kid standing on a box at the front of The Kop again.
The day that stops happening is the day they they nail the lid down on me.

What a nightmare season this could turn out to be.
What a glorious season this could turn out to be.

Who knows what will happen next at the house of fun?

One thing I do know is that we have a  unique club with a unique set of supporters.

We just have to find each other again.

Top class post.  Same goes for me really, can't say I've been an optimist most my life but when it comes to Liverpool FC it shouldn't matter who or what you are as long as your behind the team.  The difficulties come when you expect the club to give you something and when you don't get your way you throw a fit.  That's how a child reacts when he doesn't get his pacifier not how adults, or young adults should react.  The way I see it is you should treat Liverpool like a brother, so what if he got drunk and flirted with your girlfriend or gave you shit in front of your mates, when it comes down to it you'll be behind him no matter what.  Liverpool FC is fucking family, it comes first, and when it comes down to it are you going to throw a fit or fucking get behind us.

[Mother.F]

I think you'll find that's Executive Chief, young man. We hate the Chief Executive's.

Fat Scouser for Executive Chef. Show us how you got so fat. Or maybe that should be Mrs. Fat Scouser for Executive Chef.

[Beninger]

When we see some stability at the club, and control over transfers for Rafa, we'll begin to see that the wait will be worth while.  He's brilliant, but he's not had the level of depth in talent as some of the others have had.  He's had to build the club up...he's got a squad in place, that will be forever changing, I'm sure.  But all he has to do now is get some of the key players we are going to need.  If he fails to keep us improving after having all of this, then I will rethink if he's right for us.  Until then, he deserves a little more than a fair shake considering he's been turning shit into gold.

I don't think it's negative to say that I don't think we'll win the league this year, although I hope we do.  But I know we'll be looking even better next year, and the year after that...who knows if that means the league or not?  Sure, our points are on par from last year, but everyone else has been suffering too from a far more competitive league this year.  It needs to be put into perspective.  It's frustrating to drop points to these teams that are so low, but they're good at parking the bus, and the mancs have been pulling out 1-0 prayers, when many others haven't been able to. 

We have no problem with sides that play open, which means we can beat any top team in the world.  When Rafa picks up these attacking players we need, we'll crack that bus wide open. 

[shelovesyou]

My brother in law is one of the most passionate reds I know.
He's been watching Liverpool since the 2nd Division days and has been all over the world supporting his team.

He's also one of the most negative fans I know.
In Paisleys first season we lost at home against Burnley and he said to us on the way to the pub..."That's it lads..........all over for us now. We'll never get back to where we were under Shanks"

Everyone just laughed it off and it was never mentioned again that day as we all knew what he was like.
It was mentioned many times since though.

We ended the season as runners - up, but the rest as they say is history.

He's always been like that, he's a glass half empty feller in all aspects of his life. but in recent years when things have been difficult he's transformed into a level headed, glass half full feller.

Due to ill health he couldn't get to as many games as he used to but for the past few years he's improved health wise and has missed very few matches.

We were talking the other day about the last 20 odd years.....as you do.
I mentioned his change in attitude over the years and he started to explain a few things that should resonate with some on here.

He said that enforced absence has made him realise what he had for all those years. The privilege of witnessing some of the highest and lowest days anyone could imagine.
Seeing the greats of the game playing for us and for the opposition.
Great managers pitting their wits against each other.

Making great friends and sharing so much with complete strangers.
All of this against a background littered with so much silverware, that if we never won another thing it would have been more reward than any group of fans ever thought they would witness or deserve.
He said that the unfair criticism of the team and manager this season has turned his stomach and he felt he needed to support more to counteract it. To defend his club.
Don't get me wrong, I still have arguments with him as he's got many different views to myself.
However......in the ground......he's a supporter.

Negativity isn't something I subscribe to. I don't have time for it. It's a wasted emotion.

Concern is natural and disappointment is the domain of 90% of all football fans. Frustration probably follows in the same proportion.

Saying that, I've never known the level of bile and incredible stupidity spoken by Liverpool fans like this season.
I've been saying since this campaign started that we have far too many who are not up for the fight.We just didn't have enough experience of a roller coaster title race. Seems like Ferguson was right wasn't he?

I still see it as a privilege to be born into this club.
I still go cold when I see the ground looming out of the sky.
When I see that glorious red kit against the lush green of the Anfield pitch,I'm an 8 year old kid standing on a box at the front of The Kop again.
The day that stops happening is the day they they nail the lid down on me.

What a nightmare season this could turn out to be.
What a glorious season this could turn out to be.

Who knows what will happen next at the house of fun?

One thing I do know is that we have a  unique club with a unique set of supporters.

We just have to find each other again.

Fair do's, thats a top top post mate . I enjoyed it .

[ARI]

Also, if we conceded a STUPID late goal, a la Wigan, (after the most uncontrolled half of British style gung ho 'try and get it to the striker first pass every pass' thoughtless crap football I've ever seen under Rafa),

Allow me to present my view, the view of a non-English fan of Liverpool of over 30 years...

The thing I can't stand about English football is exactly as how you describe above... the running around like 11 headless hens chasing a cock,  the lack of composure and patience in buildups, the main reasons, I feel, why the England has never done well in international football. Never mind that, the fans want to see wingers and love to see the likes of Robson, Gerrard in midfield making crunching tackles and huffing and puffing with little input into overall team play.

But our Liverpool has never played that way, definitely not under Paisley, and was even described by Platini in the 80's as being more European than the Europeans. Under Benitez, we are rediscovering this important element to our game long lost due to the inferior tactics employed under various managers and the lack of flexibility in our game plans. Hence the Newcastle and Bolton game for me was an eyeopener and a throwback to our glory years as we proceeded to tighten the screw on them and piled the pressure with possession football and astute movements, without any Ronaldo like figure dominating the show. Pure and true team effort.

Until Mourinho came, no team ever won the league with 433. The most flexible formation we ever saw then was Arsenal's with a fluid 442/4411 which also coincidentally was the template for the success of  Real Madrid under Del Bosque. For over 40 years since Ramseys wingless wonders, English teams have employed 442 with a little and large combo upfront, even under Shanks. Then came Paisley with a split striker system that gave us so much success, especially in Europe.

Before they won the European Cup in 99, Fergie's Fuckers were always employed in a 442 formation. Interestingly enough, when they did win it, it was with a split striker system, with Yorke and Cole upfront. Just like Kenny, it was almost impossible to get the ball of Yorke, which provided the platform for them to bring so many players into the game when on attack. When they won it again last year it was with a revolving front three. This despite the jammy fans at Old Trafford shouting 442 when Fergie was experimenting with 4411 with Scholes playing the Yorke/Dalglish role

Whilst Wenger provided some opposition to Fergie in terms of competition for league champions and tactical problems, I would argue that it was the introduction of Mourinho and Benitez to English football, later on Capello, that made Fergie change tack and take a serious look at how poorly his team was set up tactically compared to Benitez and Mourinho especially in Europe. Our win in Istanbul opened many peoples eyes none more so than Fergie's. So Mourinho was in fact right when he said Man U improved because he came to England but Benitez is also responsible for that. The Newton Heathens won the league and UCL last season with a strong emphasis on defence, unlike in 99, and a revolutionary formation upfront. Yet fans and pundits alike seem to think all they do is attack. As opposed to fast attacking football, the Newts have now developed their game into possession-based football along with their reknowned fast breaks and counter attacks.

The virulent attacks on Benitez by the press, pundits and fans alike seems to me are the result of them not being able to get their heads around how football has changed over the years and the tactical demands required and posed during matches having been used to a steady diet of 44 fucking 2 over the years and the inside of fergie's bowels with them having their heads so far up his ass. Certainly Rafa's reluctance to be open with them is another bug up their butts.

Their remit is consistently tripe, tiresome and behind time. Footie is an easy game, play your best players all the time, wingers are necessary for width, 442, players playing in their natural positions, left footers play on the left and vice versa, zonal sucks, rotation is a no no et al. Each of these fallacies have been dispelled by Rafa, if one is willing to be honest but not, ironically, until Fergie started implementing them in toto, thus blowing their long held beliefs out of the water, did the critics tone down their vitriol on Rafa. Ever since then it seems, for lack of facts to beat Rafa with, the attacks have become personal. Heck, even Piss Morgan has gotten in on the act! I recall Andy Gray saying something to the effect of .. " I know Rafa was successful with Valencia using rotation but I don't think it can work here!!" Well what do you say now especially this season with Fergie changing up to 7 players match to match?? Notice there was no mention of our lack of squad depth as a disclaimer to that statement either.

As a manager, I believe Rafa has achieved far more now than Fergie did at the same age. Given the proper platform, a supportive board and no off field distractions, I actually believe we will see Liverpool dominate the league for seasons to come with him at the helm. I fervently believe we are seeing the building blocks of a dynasty. Lest we forget, in this day and age of fast food, fast cars, fast women, fast web connection, the best things in life always takes time. Be it seeing your child grow, your love life blossom, your business boom or in our case a football club win titles. Given what's plagued our club in the past 2 years we are well ahead of the curve in our development thanks to Rafa. Just like Paisley, I feel Rafa is a man ahead of his time and just like many geniuses will always be misunderstood now and only appreciated after the passing of time.

Given the dignity he has shown, holding his head up high while walking through a storm, I suggest we the fans do the same too. Our song should never be mere lip service.

YNWA Rafa.





 

[ARI]

Shit, trust me to fuck up the quote function!

[Chinbits]

My brother in law is one of the most passionate reds I know.
He's been watching Liverpool since the 2nd Division days and has been all over the world supporting his team.

He's also one of the most negative fans I know.
In Paisleys first season we lost at home against Burnley and he said to us on the way to the pub..."That's it lads..........all over for us now. We'll never get back to where we were under Shanks"

Everyone just laughed it off and it was never mentioned again that day as we all knew what he was like.
It was mentioned many times since though.

We ended the season as runners - up, but the rest as they say is history.

He's always been like that, he's a glass half empty feller in all aspects of his life. but in recent years when things have been difficult he's transformed into a level headed, glass half full feller.

Due to ill health he couldn't get to as many games as he used to but for the past few years he's improved health wise and has missed very few matches.

We were talking the other day about the last 20 odd years.....as you do.
I mentioned his change in attitude over the years and he started to explain a few things that should resonate with some on here.

He said that enforced absence has made him realise what he had for all those years. The privilege of witnessing some of the highest and lowest days anyone could imagine.
Seeing the greats of the game playing for us and for the opposition.
Great managers pitting their wits against each other.

Making great friends and sharing so much with complete strangers.
All of this against a background littered with so much silverware, that if we never won another thing it would have been more reward than any group of fans ever thought they would witness or deserve.
He said that the unfair criticism of the team and manager this season has turned his stomach and he felt he needed to support more to counteract it. To defend his club.
Don't get me wrong, I still have arguments with him as he's got many different views to myself.
However......in the ground......he's a supporter.

Negativity isn't something I subscribe to. I don't have time for it. It's a wasted emotion.

Concern is natural and disappointment is the domain of 90% of all football fans. Frustration probably follows in the same proportion.

Saying that, I've never known the level of bile and incredible stupidity spoken by Liverpool fans like this season.
I've been saying since this campaign started that we have far too many who are not up for the fight.We just didn't have enough experience of a roller coaster title race. Seems like Ferguson was right wasn't he?

I still see it as a privilege to be born into this club.
I still go cold when I see the ground looming out of the sky.
When I see that glorious red kit against the lush green of the Anfield pitch,I'm an 8 year old kid standing on a box at the front of The Kop again.
The day that stops happening is the day they they nail the lid down on me.

What a nightmare season this could turn out to be.
What a glorious season this could turn out to be.

Who knows what will happen next at the house of fun?

One thing I do know is that we have a  unique club with a unique set of supporters.

We just have to find each other again.

Well said mate. Hopefully this season, whatever it brings, will be a purge of our emotions and we can all come together next season with a true belief that we can beat the big guns and all we need to do is finish off the lower table teams.

[RedMichelFerri]

Also, if we conceded a STUPID late goal, a la Wigan, (after the most uncontrolled half of British style gung ho 'try and get it to the striker first pass every pass' thoughtless crap football I've ever seen under Rafa),

Allow me to present my view, the view of a non-English fan of Liverpool of over 30 years...

The thing I can't stand about English football is exactly as how you describe above... the running around like 11 headless hens chasing a cock,  the lack of composure and patience in buildups, the main reasons, I feel, why the England has never done well in international football. Never mind that, the fans want to see wingers and love to see the likes of Robson, Gerrard in midfield making crunching tackles and huffing and puffing with little input into overall team play.

But our Liverpool has never played that way, definitely not under Paisley, and was even described by Platini in the 80's as being more European than the Europeans. Under Benítez, we are rediscovering this important element to our game long lost due to the inferior tactics employed under various managers and the lack of flexibility in our game plans. Hence the Newcastle and Bolton game for me was an eyeopener and a throwback to our glory years as we proceeded to tighten the screw on them and piled the pressure with possession football and astute movements, without any Ronaldo like figure dominating the show. Pure and true team effort.

Until Mourinho came, no team ever won the league with 433. The most flexible formation we ever saw then was Arsenal's with a fluid 442/4411 which also coincidentally was the template for the success of  Real Madrid under Del Bosque. For over 40 years since Ramseys wingless wonders, English teams have employed 442 with a little and large combo upfront, even under Shanks. Then came Paisley with a split striker system that gave us so much success, especially in Europe.

Before they won the European Cup in 99, Fergie's Fuckers were always employed in a 442 formation. Interestingly enough, when they did win it, it was with a split striker system, with Yorke and Cole upfront. Just like Kenny, it was almost impossible to get the ball of Yorke, which provided the platform for them to bring so many players into the game when on attack. When they won it again last year it was with a revolving front three. This despite the jammy fans at Old Trafford shouting 442 when Fergie was experimenting with 4411 with Scholes playing the Yorke/Dalglish role

Whilst Wenger provided some opposition to Fergie in terms of competition for league champions and tactical problems, I would argue that it was the introduction of Mourinho and Benítez to English football, later on Capello, that made Fergie change tack and take a serious look at how poorly his team was set up tactically compared to Benítez and Mourinho especially in Europe. Our win in Istanbul opened many peoples eyes none more so than Fergie's. So Mourinho was in fact right when he said Man U improved because he came to England but Benítez is also responsible for that. The Newton Heathens won the league and UCL last season with a strong emphasis on defence, unlike in 99, and a revolutionary formation upfront. Yet fans and pundits alike seem to think all they do is attack. As opposed to fast attacking football, the Newts have now developed their game into possession-based football along with their reknowned fast breaks and counter attacks.

The virulent attacks on Benítez by the press, pundits and fans alike seems to me are the result of them not being able to get their heads around how football has changed over the years and the tactical demands required and posed during matches having been used to a steady diet of 44 fucking 2 over the years and the inside of fergie's bowels with them having their heads so far up his ass. Certainly Rafa's reluctance to be open with them is another bug up their butts.

Their remit is consistently tripe, tiresome and behind time. Footie is an easy game, play your best players all the time, wingers are necessary for width, 442, players playing in their natural positions, left footers play on the left and vice versa, zonal sucks, rotation is a no no et al. Each of these fallacies have been dispelled by Rafa, if one is willing to be honest but not, ironically, until Fergie started implementing them in toto, thus blowing their long held beliefs out of the water, did the critics tone down their vitriol on Rafa. Ever since then it seems, for lack of facts to beat Rafa with, the attacks have become personal. Heck, even Piss Morgan has gotten in on the act! I recall Martin Tyler's Monkey saying something to the effect of .. " I know Rafa was successful with Valencia using rotation but I don't think it can work here!!" Well what do you say now especially this season with Fergie changing up to 7 players match to match?? Notice there was no mention of our lack of squad depth as a disclaimer to that statement either.

As a manager, I believe Rafa has achieved far more now than Fergie did at the same age. Given the proper platform, a supportive board and no off field distractions, I actually believe we will see Liverpool dominate the league for seasons to come with him at the helm. I fervently believe we are seeing the building blocks of a dynasty. Lest we forget, in this day and age of fast food, fast cars, fast women, fast web connection, the best things in life always takes time. Be it seeing your child grow, your love life blossom, your business boom or in our case a football club win titles. Given what's plagued our club in the past 2 years we are well ahead of the curve in our development thanks to Rafa. Just like Paisley, I feel Rafa is a man ahead of his time and just like many geniuses will always be misunderstood now and only appreciated after the passing of time.

Given the dignity he has shown, holding his head up high while walking through a storm, I suggest we the fans do the same too. Our song should never be mere lip service.

YNWA Rafa.

 

Top post ARI.

[JimmyGrunt]

Cheeky bastard took me ages to write that! 

I was getting so wound up I had to write something and I'm glad people agree. I was so annoyed when people booed when we were top of the League. The same people who would never be happy. If we won the league it won't be by enough points, if we won everything we'd still have a go at Lucas.

Ha Ha Ha, looking back ive just realised that!! I meant to say 'good post Andy'. And yes, ive been waiting for a thread like this, as you put your opinion on another thread and it just drowns with the rest of the shite thats spewed up.

For me it feels like Anfield has changed this season. The 'buzz' around the stadium....just.....feels so negative. Do people think that Rafa has lost too many of our supporters now, or is it just a case of them being kneejerkers and if we win number 6...all will be forgotten?

At the moment, i honestly don't think we are different to any other club. The split in the supporters, the booing of certain players, no atmosphere at home. Fans will moan and winge to fuck about this or that.....i wonder how long it will take before someone from the team will come out and question the atmosphere. If we are allowed to pick things out and point fingers at the team, then surely they should be allowed to ask for more support or comment on the fact that the atmosphere at Anfield is, at times, no different to OT.

[bod]

Its taken the Mancs 24 years to catch us up. We only have to win it next year and they're playing catch up again.

You're not paranoid with a post like that.  Nice one

[coffeehead]

As I said constructive critism is fine as is disappointment, I'm not claiming to be a superfan, I just see the bright side whereas some people belive we have lost as soon as the team sheet arrives, or boo a player when he comes onto the pitch, or expect disappointment. The ammount of people who held Rafa as a god like being when we were top and then believe he is ruining the club is unbelievable.

Different people react differently. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it will always remain. Why are you so shocked at that? The only difference is in this interweb age you get to read about it a bit more.

Sorry to go against the grain but pointless thread

[JimmyGrunt]

I don't agree that its a pointless thread at all. This thread has more importance for the non-negative posters than 90% of the other threads in the Liverpool Forum.

[fudge]

Not being funny lad, but how old are you?
See, the thing about the old days, is just that... they were the old days - we were winning everything in sight. The media wasn't there waiting to pounce on any/every snippet and spinning it meet their agenda. Also, we had strong but silent fellas like Smith and Robinson in the boardroom, but don't think Shanks wasn't ready to use the media everytime he felt like. There was a time when he was threatening to quit every other day until he got his way over what ever it was he wanted. Sadly, nowadays the reverse of all that is the case. But as for Rafa using the media, on some levels - note I said on some levels so don't be going on one - it's not that much different to Shankly's.

And if Rafa hadn't gone public on some occasions - how the fuck would we have known the extent of the shite going on behind locked doors?

But I know what you mean, and I also wish it wasn't happening. But don't confuse the issue and think it's just Rafa making noise for the sake of it.

Should be the last word on it

[macca888]

I'd take that a step further Hinesy... True fans are also entitled to kick right off if they think something is wrong at the club, and try to change it. In fact, it's their duty. As to just follow like sheep, no matter what is going on, is not being a true fan.

Just imagine mate, if it wasn't for the Toll Puddle Martyrs, you wouldn't be getting the big bucks, fast cars and gorgeous girls that you get for moderating.

So, moaning, whingeing and even kicking up fuck is right. The problem is, directing it properly. I'm convinced that shouldn't be in Rafa's direction. Booing the team, and individual players just isn't on anyway. But as far as I'm concerned, a mental blind man on a fast horse should be able to see what Rafa has/is doing for this club. Others just think he's a fat Spanish dumb waiter.

Where is the People's Front Of Judea when you need them, eh.

Fatty, your death posts will stand as a landmark in the continuing struggle to liberate the parent land RAWK from the hands of the Roman imperialist aggressors negative twats who have got fuck all decent to say, excluding those concerned with drainage, medicine, roads, housing, education, viniculture and any other Romans making funny posts on the Off Topic Forum and contributing to the welfare of Jews Rawkites of both sexes and hermaphrodites. Signed, on behalf of the P. F. J. , etc. " And I'd just like to add, on a personal note, my own admiration, for what you're doing for us, Brian Fatty, on what must be, after all, for you a very difficult time.