Topic: Joël Matip (Job Joël André Matip)

[Farman]

His runs forward are fantastic. Of course he's been making these runs for years but it really does give us another passing option and I don't see many teams tracking his runs.

When he does this I make up my mind whether he looks magnificent or just ungainly. He’s like an adolescent gazelle.

[Bobinhood]

his reaction was 100% understandable.  that wasn't a foul in a million years.

More than that he put his body on the line and took a hard hit to make an excellent brave and important tackle. Tierney's shit bias unbalanced the entire world.  More or less represented evil incarnate at that moment. To me as well.

God i hope we give him an extension. He was brilliant yesterday.

[So… Howard Philips]

When he does this I make up my mind whether he looks magnificent or just ungainly. He’s like an adolescent gazelle.

More like one of those gazelles born when the herd is on the move and has to learn to trot straight away to avoid being eaten by lions.

[Wingman]

Ibou’s been fine but Joel’s been the better player so far this season
Him, Ali, Virgil, Dom, and Mo. On form, those are (or should be) our first choice starters right now.

[farawayred]

Give him another year please! Always been a top player even when he couldn’t get his not even he team.

A good joker too; that smack of Hendo’s head comes to mind…

[koptommy93]

Matip could easily be considered a liverpool legend when his time here is done

[Kalito]

Matip could easily be considered a liverpool legend when his time here is done

He is a legend already. No doubt about it.

One of the best in our history.

[paulrazor]

He is a legend already. No doubt about it.

One of the best in our history.

Hansen, Yeats, Hughes, Smith, Thompson, Lawrenson, Van Dijk, Carragher and Hyypia would be ahead of him

[Kalito]

Hansen, Yeats, Hughes, Smith, Thompson, Lawrenson, Van Dijk, Carragher and Hyypia would be ahead of him

For me, no chance.

Matip probably equal to Hyypia, if not better (more pace), but way better defender than Carra. Not even close for me.

As I said, one of the best in our history along with the greats of the past and has consistently been a top performer since he's arrived (8th season now, and Carra's only had about 4-5 seasons as a top centre half).

[So… Howard Philips]

For me, no chance.

Matip probably equal to Hyypia, if not better (more pace), but way better defender than Carra. Not even close for me.

As I said, one of the best in our history along with the greats of the past and has consistently been a top performer since he's arrived (8th season now, and Carra's only had about 4-5 seasons as a top centre half).

I’d agree. I don’t recall Hyppia making any Matip themed mazy ball carrying runs.

[Knight]

For me, no chance.

Matip probably equal to Hyypia, if not better (more pace), but way better defender than Carra. Not even close for me.

As I said, one of the best in our history along with the greats of the past and has consistently been a top performer since he's arrived (8th season now, and Carra's only had about 4-5 seasons as a top centre half).

Hyypia and Carragher have got heroic, backs against the wall, performances in games we were massively outgunned going for them though. The FA Cup final in 2001 or various 2005 CL games spring to mind. And  it was in a period coming out of the wilderness too. Matip has been brilliant for us (and is certainly a better player than Carra ever was, perhaps Hyypia too) but he's been brilliant in a less memorable way.

[Eeyore]

I’d agree. I don’t recall Hyppia making any Matip themed mazy ball carrying runs.

Sami did manage to score in 3 different CL quarter finals though. Leverkusen, Juve and Arsenal.

[Sheer Magnetism]

For me, no chance.

Matip probably equal to Hyypia, if not better (more pace), but way better defender than Carra. Not even close for me.

As I said, one of the best in our history along with the greats of the past and has consistently been a top performer since he's arrived (8th season now, and Carra's only had about 4-5 seasons as a top centre half).

But how has he looked when he hasn't been playing next to Van Dijk? Hyypia and Carragher led defences that were generally as mean as the ones under Klopp while Matip hasn't even been an automatic first choice for much of his time here. Eight seasons sure, but he's only had one since his debut year where he's started more than 22 league games. A top player no doubt but you're being very harsh on Hyypia and Carragher.

[Dim Glas]

For me, no chance.

Matip probably equal to Hyypia, if not better (more pace), but way better defender than Carra. Not even close for me.

As I said, one of the best in our history along with the greats of the past and has consistently been a top performer since he's arrived (8th season now, and Carra's only had about 4-5 seasons as a top centre half).

yep, no way is Matip behind Carragher and Hyypia.

Sami was fantastic, but he became as bad a hoofball merchant as Carragher.

Matip, not just a quality player, but a full set of trophies too, already a legend of course!

[jepovic]

Probably our most underrated player, with Jota perhaps, especially among non Liverpool fans and media. Never gets mentioned as the top CB he is. More subtle than VVD

[paulrazor]

But how has he looked when he hasn't been playing next to Van Dijk? Hyypia and Carragher led defences that were generally as mean as the ones under Klopp while Matip hasn't even been an automatic first choice for much of his time here. Eight seasons sure, but he's only had one since his debut year where he's started more than 22 league games. A top player no doubt but you're being very harsh on Hyypia and Carragher.

I think its harsh too, he hasnt even got to 200 league games in this his 8th season.

Hyypia wasnt as good on the ball but he was way bigger goal threat than Joel

For me, Carra and Hyypia were better players even if they didnt win the league.

What holds Joel back for me is his injuries. Two of the seasons with us (including when we won the league he didnt even play that much)

[blamski]

I don't know about bests or pantheons or any of that stuff, but if I had to name an all time 11 of players I most enjoy or enjoyed watching, he's my first choice centre back.

[JP!]

It's bloody nice to debate Matip, Hyypia or Carragher - for me Matip and Sami are probably pound for pound two of our best signings of all time.

I can't really be objective about Carragher post 2010 and in his current gobshite status as a media pundit so its hard to comment.

[Knight]

It's bloody nice to debate Matip, Hyypia or Carragher - for me Matip and Sami are probably pound for pound two of our best signings of all time.

I can't really be objective about Carragher post 2010 and in his current gobshite status as a media pundit so its hard to comment.

Really? Ex players being annoying pundits holds so little weight compared to their actual on pitch performances, surely? I mean, who cares if he's a muppet on camera given Istanbul?

[paulrazor]

Really? Ex players being annoying pundits holds so little weight compared to their actual on pitch performances, surely? I mean, who cares if he's a muppet on camera given Istanbul?

yep if you are going down that road then you have to say the likes of Lawrenson, Smith and Hughes could be complete muppets off the pitch

Its irrelevant stuff

[JP!]

Is it?  There are probably many who do think that about Lawrenson, Smith and Hughes too I should think. Quite vocally in some cases.

As a sidenote, do you all love Souness then?  And yes, that's an extreme example, but I can respect what he did for the club and still think he's a tit.

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly, it doesn't change my view of his ability - I think Carragher was a good player (although good's about it) - but in the context of him using the club being in danger of going out of business to line his pocket and extend his career, getting one of our best managers sacked and being a gobshite on TV about us on a regular occurrence, yes it does taint my view of him. Sorry.

[Sheer Magnetism]

I think Carragher was a good player but in the context of him using the club being in danger of going out of business to line his pocket and extend his career, getting one of our best managers sacked and being a gobshite on TV about us on a regular occurence, yes it does taint my view of him. Sorry.

Seriously? You really think Carra was 'using the club being in danger of going out of business to line his pocket' - how would that even work hypothetically? You think he was primarily responsible for getting Rafa sacked, rather than our league form plummeting and Rafa constantly railing against the owners? Because both seem absolutely bonkers to me.

[JP!]

Seriously? You really think Carra was 'using the club being in danger of going out of business to line his pocket' - how would that even work hypothetically? You think he was primarily responsible for getting Rafa sacked, rather than our league form plummeting and Rafa constantly railing against the owners? Because both seem absolutely bonkers to me.

He got a 3 year contract when we were about 2 days from going into administration when he didn't deserve one.

He was definitely involved in getting Rafa sacked, this has been documented multiple times on here by multiple people and is one of the few times I agree with Al/Eeyore.

Can see it's an uphill argument to have but ultimately yes that is how I feel.

[paulrazor]

Is it?  There are probably many who do think that about Lawrenson, Smith and Hughes too I should think. Quite vocally in some cases.

As a sidenote, do you all love Souness then?  And yes, that's an extreme example, but I can respect what he did for the club and still think he's a tit.

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly, it doesn't change my view of his ability - I think Carragher was a good player (although good's about it) - but in the context of him using the club being in danger of going out of business to line his pocket and extend his career, getting one of our best managers sacked and being a gobshite on TV about us on a regular occurrence, yes it does taint my view of him. Sorry.

Its Irrelevant in the context of saying who is the better player, and its irrelevant to what they done on the pitch.

How on earth did Carra get Benitez sacked?

"but in the context of him using the club being in danger of going out of business to line his pocket and extend his career"

That makes no sense

[JP!]

Its Irrelevant in the context of saying who is the better player, and its irrelevant to what they done on the pitch.

How on earth did Carra get Benitez sacked?

"but in the context of him using the club being in danger of going out of business to line his pocket and extend his career"

That makes no sense

Yknow, I've posted elsewhere in this thread explaining that. It's well documented. It's a Matip thread, let's take this discussion to Carragher's thread (if there is one?!) if we're going to have it.  It was a throwaway comment re: comparison with him to Matip/Hyypia that seems to have upset you all so much.  On purely football he wasn't even as good as either of them anyway to be perfectly honest.

[paulrazor]

Who is getting upset?

[JP!]

Who is getting upset?

Well, in fairness, your responses have been more level headed out of some of the strange replies.

I dunno. I can't always extract what I think of someone as a person/what they were like to/about the club when it comes to rating them as a footballer. I really don't think it's a hanging offense. It may be irrelevant to you and more power to you; I just don't think that way.  On balance I think he was a limited footballer who was lucky to have a manager who built around and accentuated his positives rather than his limitations, and I think his actions towards that manager (refusing to play right back against Middlesbrough is something else that has just come to mind) and in the twilight of his LFC career taint my more positive feelings about that.  I also think he's a shit pundit. That has (far) less weight than the other stuff but it does cause me to think of him less fondly.

Sorry if you disagree, but that's the way it goes I suppose.

I see no value in this continuing for what it's worth, it's not a Carragher thread, if I can find one we can continue it there.  I'll leave it at that.

[paulrazor]

Well, in fairness, your responses have been more level headed.

I see no value in this continuing for what it's worth, it's not a Carragher thread, if I can find one we can continue it there.  I'll leave it at that.

happy to leave it there

[Sheer Magnetism]

Maybe if you don't want to talk about something you shouldn't bring it up in a thread? Just a thought.

[disgraced cake]

Really? Ex players being annoying pundits holds so little weight compared to their actual on pitch performances, surely? I mean, who cares if he's a muppet on camera given Istanbul?

This is how I feel about it too. The Carragher debate has been had loads of times on various threads over the last few years and so many are obviously blinded by the media stuff. I'm not really a fan of his and he obviously isn't one of the 'elite' defenders we've had on the level of a Van Dijk for example, but he was some player for us. 737 games for Christ's sake! In his prime he was superb for Liverpool. Some not so good times but if you're going to play that many games it'll come with a few stinkers. I feel a lot of people are in the process of doing the same with the lads who have gone over to Saudi Arabia now, actually. Henderson for years was lauded as hugely underrated by everyone outside of Liverpool fans and now many of the same people think he was crap and should have been sold years before 

I think for a lot of his time playing alongside Van Dijk that Matip has been nearly as good as him. Obviously not in that same standout way where Van Dijk looked literally unbeatable for a good couple of years, but still around his level for sure. I suppose in that way I'd have to say Matip has been a better footballer than Carra but there's so many different factors involved that I feel the whole argument might be a bit pointless. He's been absolutely key for a good number of years, and even before Van Dijk came he was good, just needed someone of Virgil's quality alongside him if we were to compete. Swerving Cameroon at international level to focus on Liverpool will also not be forgotten by me anytime soon. You could spend 80 million on a centre half and not even get 1/100th of what Matip has given us, sometimes you might just luck out and get one for free. Right up there with Hyypia in terms of value for money centre halves. Joe Gomez at a few million also springs to mind.

[JP!]

Maybe if you don't want to talk about something you shouldn't bring it up in a thread? Just a thought.

Christ. It formed part of my opinion.  For some reason multiple people waded in on it. It then started to take over the thread so I suggested it be talked about elsewhere.  It's really not hard.

Anyway, Matip. Class and surely for free one of our best signings ever.  Pretty much VVDs best partner as well, even now, despite Gomez, Konate and others being touted to replace him at different times.

(And yes, I rate both, just to prevent this becoming a Gomez/Konate thread as well...)

[newterp]

Christ. It formed part of my opinion.  For some reason multiple people waded in on it. It then started to take over the thread so I suggested it be talked about elsewhere.  It's really not hard.

Anyway, Matip. Class and surely for free one of our best signings ever.  Pretty much VVDs best partner as well, even now, despite Gomez, Konate and others being touted to replace him at different times.

(And yes, I rate both, just to prevent this becoming a Gomez/Konate thread as well...)

Don't be put off. It's a weird comment - as if you need to be prepared to talk about every potential statement you make across 20 or 30 posts (especially when it's not a key to the main discussion). That's just silly.

There is a segment of fans that just don't want to believe that Gerrard and Carragher played a role in getting Benitez sacked (as you note it's well detailed elsewhere - you have no obligation to repost it or find it). Were the results bad for the prior season - yes worse than usual - but you'd figure he should have been given a chance for 1 more season.

[SinceSixtyFive]

Hansen, Yeats, Hughes, Smith, Thompson, Lawrenson, Van Dijk, Carragher and Hyypia would be ahead of him

None of that lot know a damn thing about coconuts.

[Scottymuser]

Matip for me showed both his good and bad qualities vs Brentford - made a couple of fun mazy runs (coming to, as usual, not even a shot on goal), but got caught out of position on a half dozen times, rushing out to intercept balls that were not there to win, and was at fault for their best 3 chances (and if it weren't for VVDs covering speed would have been more).   

[Studgotelli]

Great game again.

[farawayred]

Boss that lad. Keep him for another year.

[Gods_Left_Boot]

Great performance, got in the way of everything. Gave the ball away in the build up a couple of times, and it cost him a yellow as well, but on the whole he was excellent.

[Ghost Town]

Finished at the top level? Yer 'avin a giraffe

[gazzalfc]

One of the best performances he's had for us. Made up for him

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Arguably the best defender in the World.

Get him a new contract!