Topic: Ferguson: Benitez has spent more money

[royhendo]

Rafa's gotten under his skin with the 'how to beat them' speech by the way. Oh, and the result last week I guess... there's always that.

[vintage74]

the fella's pissed.  But shows hes worried.  Com' on

[Hazell]

In terms of 'sir' alex, that's an astonishing rant, I can't believe a manger would attack another in that way. Twice in a week, he should concentrate on his own club. He's cracking up.

Exactly. And what's even funnier is he wrong. About the spending AND the youth systems. Either he's lying or doesn't have any idea about our youth system. What's definite is that he's a gin soaked twat.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

rafas going to kill him off. either this season or next i predict.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Coffin-dodging pisshead.

Shame its Roy " We're Fucked if we play Man U" Hodgson's side who play them this weekend.

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

Coffin-dodging pisshead.

Shame its Roy " We're Fucked if we play Man U" Hodgson's side who play them this weekend.

indeed. i was thinking the other day, is hodgson not bringing the game into disripute?

i wonder what would happen if mega money went on united winning at the bookies?

[lamonti]

He's cracking up, eh?

[Art Vandelay]

He's shitting himself.....



He's also worried about Rafa.

Ba-Dum-Tshhh.

[skidz73]

Can he count to 4?

He's taken an awful long time just to be able to count to 18.

[Slave]

What happened to Carson was that he made one mistake against Juventus and he got dropped. On top of that, he was competing with one of the world's best goalkeepers who was only in his early twenties himself at the time. Insua's confidence could only be destroyed by his manager and his team mates, not by one bad performance. It's a managers job to keep players confident.

You speak as if I've said that we should only play reserves and they should all be first team players. What I'm saying is that a first team lineup that has:

Reina, Carragher/Skrtel/Agger, Gerrard/Alonso/Mascherano and Torres as a core can easily accommodate Insua or Darby or Anderson or Leto (when he can play) or Pacheco or even two of those at the same time. I haven't said drop Kuijt, Babel, Yossi, Arbeloa and Aurelio.

That's bollocks. Riera is ahead of Leto and Anderson. Darby and Pacheco hadn't played a first team game up until this season and Dossena is a full international. If we hadn't of brought cover in then our squad would have been pushed beyond its limits, it's struggling to cope as it is.

The one big mistake of last season's summer transfers was buying Keane. As it happens he was needed for a good part of the season due to Torres' injury but even still it didn't really work out for us. There were also extenuating circumstances as Parry had more to do with his signing than he should of and not many were predicting that he would be a total flop when he first joined so I can forgive Rafa for that one.

You say we should have trusted Insua to deputise for the inconsistently fit Aurelio and use Rafael as an example of how Ferguson would of played it yet they have four options in that position and we would have only had two. Ferguson has had O'Shea in there a lot of the time this season and if Brown or Neville were fit I doubt Rafael would of had a look in. 

[Cloggs]

You mean the great Carson that's kept West Brom out of trouble?  To some extent it is the managers job to keep moral up but his first obligation is to get the results and if he doesn't think Scott fucking Carson can do that who am I to argue?  Insua, as it happens, has played well and has, surprise surprise, gotten more starts.  If we weren't pushing for the top four and trying to continue our European dominance, yes, there's plenty of room in the first team for Darby, Anderson, Leto, and Pacheco.  In fact, why not sell our first team, minus Gerrard, Torres, and Mascherano and play as many youngsters as possible, that is our priority right, get as many 15 year olds on the pitch as possible, and that means you automatically win right?  You say you're not advocating doing just that but you then hang Rafa from your own absurdly simply cross.  "Ya we're tied for second but why don't we play more youngsters", "We're good in Europe but we need more million pound players we can't afford".  Get behind the fucking team and stop nitpicking.

Haha...so I say one thing but that doesn't really fit your rant so I must mean another.

Stick to singing the helicopter song and let the footy talk to the adults kid.

[Gedo]

hasn't rafa got loads of youth players over the last few years as well? and isn't he trying to overhaul the academy so we can bring players through?

That's why we've won the Youth Cup twice in 3 years and the Reserves last year,who the fuck have they brought through since Beckham,Giggs,Neville etc

[nocturnalvin]

err...for us...he made his debut in the 2006/2007 season. The point I tried to make was that in spite of Insua already having played first team football for us, we still brought in Dossena. Whereas, with Gary Neville ageing, Ferguson throws in Rafael and only looks at buying someone if that doesn't work out.

get what you're saying, but its unfair to make a sweeping statement regarding Rafa. Alot of things are on hindsight. I have never vehemently defended Rafa, and i don't intend to do that if facts prove otherwise.  In fact, i still struggle to understand if gross spend or net spend is a better indicator as both have their merits.

He got Doss in because there was a need to, with Aurelio getting injured all the time, even with Insua availabe. Riera has proven to be a good purchase, even though has suffered a poor run recently.  Keane was the major disappointment, but so did many of Fergie's purchases.   The fact is, the Mancs can afford to spend massive dollars, and if it doesnt work, no big deal, whereas the poorer us can't afford to.

[mikeb58]

Rant?

Rattled

This had made my fucking day.

The man is....well, he's cracking up.

It took Rafa a little time, but he's well and truly got this fucker sussed now.

Remember the Steve Martin / Michael Caine ( forget the title now) were Martin is the new, young brash and smarter con man in town...this reminds me of Rafa and Ferguson.

Rafa is the future of management, soon Ferguson will have had his day, and at this rate he'll be dragged off kicking and screaming ' if it wasn't for Rafa this, if it wasn't for Rafa that'

[tomtom]

Haha...so I say one thing but that doesn't really fit your rant so I must mean another.

Stick to singing the helicopter song and let the footy talk to the adults kid.

So basically your saying the ressies are all good enough to be called upon therefore we should only be spending money on the best players in the world?

If only Rafa could see winning the league is this simple.

[Varmenni]

That's why we've won the Youth Cup twice in 3 years and the Reserves last year,who the fuck have they brought through since Beckham,Giggs,Neville etc

Wes Brown   And probably half the squads at Sunderland and Stoke ( Pugh, Higgenbotham, Bardsley, Shawcross, Healy, McShane)

[Cloggs]

get what you're saying, but its unfair to make a sweeping statement regarding Rafa. Alot of things are on hindsight. I have never vehemently defended Rafa, and i don't intend to do that if facts prove otherwise.  In fact, i still struggle to understand if gross spend or net spend is a better indicator as both have their merits.

He got Doss in because there was a need to, with Aurelio getting injured all the time, even with Insua availabe. Riera has proven to be a good purchase, even though has suffered a poor run recently.  Keane was the major disappointment, but so did many of Fergie's purchases.   The fact is, the Mancs can afford to spend massive dollars, and if it doesnt work, no big deal, whereas the poorer us can't afford to.

I get it, I really do. And with Riise leaving we had only two left backs left, one of them being Insua. Keane also didn't work out.

The way I see it, you take care of your first 11 first, then your squad.

[The Nihilists]

Tomkins' take:

http://tomkins-blogs.typepad.com/paul_tomkins_blog/2009/03/ferguson-is-wrong.html

[Cloggs]

So basically your saying the ressies are all good enough to be called upon therefore we should only be spending money on the best players in the world?

If only Rafa could see winning the league is this simple.

That's not what I'm saying. Read all the posts, then reply. Get back to me then if you disagree.

[nocturnalvin]

I get it, I really do. And with Riise leaving we had only two left backs left, one of them being Insua. Keane also didn't work out.

The way I see it, you take care of your first 11 first, then your squad.

and what would you have done ?

[drmick]

I've copied a Gedo post from another thread:

Ye,am just disecting that bollocks on Sky last night, since Rafa arrived he's spent more that Ferguson  over that period,not a fuckin chance.
Berbatov £30m
Rooney £28m
Anderton £18m
Hargreaves £18m
Carrick £17m
Nani £17m
Tosic £10m
Tevez £10m loan
Saha £11m
Heinze £7m
Park £6m
Smith £7m
Van De Sar 2m
Kuszczak £2m
Pique £2m
That's not including the Brazilian Twins as well.

I know they've had money in for;
Van Nistelroy £15m
Heinze £7m
Smith £5m
Richardson £4m
Pique £4m
Kleberson £2.5m
Djemba-Djemba £1.5m
Silvestre £1m

Rafa's spent approx £195m for that period and has recouped £95m approx.

I'm amazed that 5 pages in, nobody here has tried to verify the facts of the statement.

Two confounders: Tevez' fee is probably not included for Utd, while Cisse's fee is probably being included with Benitez despite Cisse not really being a Rafa signing.

Get going with the calculators folks!

[tomtom]

I've copied a Gedo post from another thread:
I'm amazed that 5 pages in, nobody here has tried to verify the facts of the statement.

Two confounders: Tevez' fee is probably not included for Utd, while Cisse's fee is probably being included with Benitez despite Cisse not really being a Rafa signing.

Get going with the calculators folks!

We all knows Ferguson is talking out of his arse, don't bother. I couldn't give a flying fuck if Rafa has spent twice as much as Ferguson has since 2004. The figures means absolutly nothing when you consider Ferguson has had 15 years head start.

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Fuck me. This bloke is an utter cock smoker. I got a 24 ban last week because of this lot, but when this old fart spruks about shite like this is no wonder why!!!

[Phatz]

Would developing young players be like splashing out £12m on Cristiano Ronaldo at 18 (when our record transfer at that time was £11m)?
Or perhaps the total combined transfer of Anderson and Nani for £35m, with add ons, who have turned out to be rather muck in the past few seasons?

Or bringing in 18 year old Rooney for £27m with add ons and converting him from a number 9 style striker to a dogsbody?

Maybe he means splashing almost £15m on Tosic in January?

Maybe he'd like to consider that one season he had to bring in only one player because the previous 5 they'd smashed transfer records almost every season?

Anyway, I think it's fucking hilarious that he himself admits he "got some of the people in the sports technology department to check that out."
That's x number of Manchester United staff having to stop working on their own club and focus on ours.

I'm pretty sure Rafa must be laughing his arse off. Wasting time and resources while we're preparing to catch them up.
You'd have to be blind not to see how fucking scared he is.

On-the-fucking-nose.

We concentrate on our preparation. They concentrate on us.

Shitting his strides, the jumped-up gobshite that Mr. Ferguson is.

[lfc_bhoy]

Haha...so I say one thing but that doesn't really fit your rant so I must mean another.

Stick to singing the helicopter song and let the footy talk to the adults kid.

No, you cannot elaborate an intelligent point and result to cliche's like, "the youngsters need to play more".  You then say that we can fill the squad with our ressies without displacing any other players and say nothing as to how Rafa can change the amount of players on the field.  You then show that obviously don't understand very simple concepts about football like, potential doesn't not equal success, or our basic need to stay competitive in two major competitions and how fielding Reserves isn't the path to glory.  You precede to call me childish because I questioned Sir Cloggs's Recipe for Success (tm).  How about you shut your miserable gob for one second, look at where we are relative to where we were, see that you're just another internet simpleton clinging onto whatever moronic in vogue notion the media is spouting, and hopefully move on to rotation or something.

[rafasredangel]

Bless him - he shouldn't try adding up while he's pissed!

[thredworm]

It really is quite incredible how fucking stupid people are. To sit there and completely dismiss the notion that any club wanting to catch up with the current champions, and the club with the strongest squad, actually HAS TO spend more money to do so just boggles the mind.

They honestly do their calculations based on a 5 year period? Just since Rafa took over? Is that how it works now then? We just forget about the money spent before that? Ok then.

In that case Spurs will now be better than us next season and winning everything in site. Seeing as they've spent more and we can conveniently forget about our squad being stronger and winning trophies before they started to spend lots of money.

And clubs like Stoke, West Brom, Hull etc. can all just spend a few million more than us per season for the next 5 years and they'll be winning league titles and champions leagues in no time at all. Because that's how it works. Everything is just measured over a 5 year period, and nothing that went before it matters now. Ferguson and the media said so.

I mean seriously, how fucking retarded do you have to be to come to these conclusions?

I myself never even think about it. I don't sit there and work out sums of money spent on individual players over a 2-3 year period and use my findings to work out who wins what at the end of the season, and which manager should be under pressure based on a net spend. Why the fuck would anyone do that? Why is it so important to people?

Fact is we're closing the gap. We've closed it on Chelsea, we've surpassed Arsenal, and we're closing in on the mancs. In Europe we're number 1, we're the side who nobody wants to face, and that's because we've worked harder than any other club in that competition. Now in the league we're building a squad which only looks like 2-3 players away from dominating, and it'll continue to look that way until we find the right players. How fucking hypocrtical of twats like Ferguson to sit there and judge the amount of money we're spending in order to dominate this league. This is exactly what he's doing year on year!

Ferdinand, Rooney, Berbatov, Anderson, Carrick, Tevez....
That list of players above didn't need to be bought to build a SQUAD, they were bought to strengthen and dominate. No other reason. We ourselves are building to BE in that position. Is that so fucking hard to understand?

Apparantly so.

[StormyDog]

What happened to Carson was that he made one mistake against Juventus and he got dropped. On top of that, he was competing with one of the world's best goalkeepers who was only in his early twenties himself at the time. Insua's confidence could only be destroyed by his manager and his team mates, not by one bad performance. It's a managers job to keep players confident.

You speak as if I've said that we should only play reserves and they should all be first team players. What I'm saying is that a first team lineup that has:

Reina, Carragher/Skrtel/Agger, Gerrard/Alonso/Mascherano and Torres as a core can easily accommodate Insua or Darby or Anderson or Leto (when he can play) or Pacheco or even two of those at the same time. I haven't said drop Kuijt, Babel, Yossi, Arbeloa and Aurelio.

In an Ideal world I would agree with you, our squad should be able to blood the younger players, but as we all know, the result are so important due to the need for no.19 that Rafa needs to win the title before he'll be given time to allow his kids to develop.
While we continue to wait for the title it will be hard for OK/good players to break through, Great players (Gerrard etc.) will always shine.

[Neil D]

I love this. Shows we've got him rattled and we're finally their number one rival.

Wenger and Ferguson were always at it, until Arsenal became irrelevant. Now he is talking about Rafa because he realises Rafa is the man to end his reign.

This is no different to loads of spats between Ferguson and other managers over the years.

Ferguson's cracking up...

[Neil D]

What happened to Carson was that he made one mistake against Juventus and he got dropped.

Bullshit. He wasn't dropped and he had other chances. Luton springs to mind, where he almost cost us the tie and was fucking awful. Whenever he came in the team suffered. So he was shown the door and rightly so.

[thredworm]

That's why we've won the Youth Cup twice in 3 years and the Reserves last year,who the fuck have they brought through since Beckham,Giggs,Neville etc

To be fair...

Evans, Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown & Foster spring to mind.

[Dubit10]

Complete idiot of a man. Deluded from years of downing whiskey and red wine.

[Dubit10]

Bless him - he shouldn't try adding up while he's pissed!

[Passmaster Molby]

To be fair...

Evans, Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown & Foster spring to mind.

Foster cost £1mill from Stoke.

[G a r y]

No way on Earth has Rafa spent more than Ferguson during the same time period.

Cisse was not a Rafa purchase either.

[Cloggs]

and what would you have done ?

My first priority would have been Silva or Arshavin - if possible (BIG BIG if) both. Both had just had a great Euro and had shown their class.

[tomtom]

My first priority would have been Silva or Arshavin - if possible (BIG BIG if) both. Both had just had a great Euro and had shown their class.

Zenit were asking for 20+million for Arsharvin at the time and clubs like Barca were sniffing about, whilst Silva is reported as often feeling home sick playing for Valencia.

As it turns out we did spend big but on the wrong player this year, the other year we bought Torres though... I don't see where this argument is going because Rafa has shown that he is willing to spend money on one player now he has a fairly strong squad. Let's see what the summer brings?

[Cloggs]

Zenit were asking for 20+million for Arsharvin at the time and clubs like Barca were sniffing about, whilst Silva is reported as often feeling home sick playing for Valencia.

As it turns out we did spend big but on the wrong player this year, the other year we bought Torres though... I don't see where this argument is going because Rafa has shown that he is willing to spend money on one player now he has a fairly strong squad. Let's see what the summer brings?

Is why I said "I hope we spend more wisely this summer"

[brunny]

To be fair...

Evans, Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown & Foster spring to mind.
[/quote

and which one exactly woulf you let anywhere near the liverpool squad

[Jase]

Get back to your Glenfiddich you drunken ratbag.