Topic: RAWK Web Development Circle

[aaronaldo]

Can anyone recommend some good drupal tutorials?

[Claire.]

Been a while but I used: https://www.drupal.org/documentation when I was learning the ropes years ago, and the Apress Pro Drupal Development book - should be easy to find as an ebook.

[danwms]

Any software developers looking for work in the Manchester area?

[conman]

pretty simple question for some of you guys & I'm in a mad hurry to get this sorted as I need the site live tomorrow.

Ive registered a domain on register365 & created a very very simple website with wordpress.com.
I used wordpress's "map a domain" feature to map my register365 address to the wordpress subdomain, so that the domain goes live.
I've also set the domain as primary in wordpress.com, so that the subdomain doesn't take precedence.

A few hours ago i changed the NS records on register365 to the following:

NS1.WORDPRESS.COM
NS2.WORDPRESS.COM

Is it just a matter of waiting now? and in all likelihood, will it be complete within 24 hours?

[CraigDS]

In my experience it's always been refreshed within 24 hours (normally a lot quicker). Make sure you're doing a hard refresh though so pulling the latest from your server and not just what's in your cache.

[conman]

In my experience it's always been refreshed within 24 hours (normally a lot quicker). Make sure you're doing a hard refresh though so pulling the latest from your server and not just what's in your cache.

well, it's between wp.com & register365, so i don't have any control over that.

[CraigDS]

well, it's between wp.com & register365, so i don't have any control over that.

Presumably you've visited the site though and it's showing whatever the old DNS pointed to, so this will be in your browsers cache. If you're just refreshing your browser normally then it won't reset your browser's cache and it could just keep serving up that old site.

If you force refresh, not sure how to do it on windows but on a Mac it's CMD + R, then it will reload the page totally so if the DNS has migrated then it'll show.

[conman]

Presumably you've visited the site though and it's showing whatever the old DNS pointed to, so this will be in your browsers cache. If you're just refreshing your browser normally then it won't reset your browser's cache and it could just keep serving up that old site.

If you force refresh, not sure how to do it on windows but on a Mac it's CMD + R, then it will reload the page totally so if the DNS has migrated then it'll show.

Super.

I've tried that. But i guess it will take more than a couple of hours for propagation.

[SP]

Super.

I've tried that. But i guess it will take more than a couple of hours for propagation.

Try a different device. That usually negates the caching issues...

[conman]

Try a different device. That usually negates the caching issues...

will do, though I'll do it later as it's probably much too early to expect it to have changed right now.

[GregCharrua]

DNS propagation usually takes < 2-3 hours. Typically changes don't appear because you're looking at cached content stored in your browser - a hard refresh can do it. You can also ping your domain and see if the IP address has updated if you're really unsure.

I've never had a site take longer than a few hours at the most, so by tomorrow you should be well set.

[conman]

all is good in the hood now.
thanks guys

[tubby]

Hoping someone here can point me in the right/any direction.

I'm looking into options for building a quote module for the business I work in - what I basically need is a souped up version of Excel, something that can hold a large amount of data, and then the users can select whichever options they want from drop down menus (client name, project-type, etc) and can enter data (number of items, time estimated, etc) which will cross-reference cost matrices, pre-defined metrics, whatever, and then give me a quote based on all that at the end of it.

I guess there's a few similar things available to buy online but I'm toying with the idea of trying to build something myself.  So the question is can someone let me know what coding language/approach would be best suited for something like this?

Bearing in mind I have zero coding experience, but am fairly technically-minded (I can totally embed youtube videos on RAWK).

[SP]

Is it external facing? If it is, don't touch it. That would be a job for someone with coding experience.

Do you want a full audit record? If so, I would probably go pro again.

If you want to make a souped up spreadsheet available to selected users, you could use a Google Docs spreadsheet and and build the functionality off that.

That said, I would still probably steer you away from homebrew for a system that needs to be maintained, and had multiple users. Getting nearly right code in place is a piece of piss. The final 5% and the ongoing support is what will kill you. With no experience it is far more likely to be a trainwreck than a roaring success.

[tubby]

Solely for internal use, just the output being sent to clients, no audit record or anything, it wouldn't be a controlled document.

What advantage does Google Docs have over Excel?  I can basically do everything I need in Excel but the amount of formulas and data in there would make it cumbersome and a huge pain to maintain, which is why I'm thinking of other options.  I wouldn't expect there to be any support needed, basically I'd just create a template that has everything everyone needs and then send that sucker out into the world, maybe with some instructions to everyone else on how to update it if they need to make any changes.  Wouldn't be updated real time by multiple users, everyone would have their own copy and select what they want when they need to knock up a quote for a client.

[SP]

Solely for internal use, just the output being sent to clients, no audit record or anything, it wouldn't be a controlled document.

What advantage does Google Docs have over Excel?  I can basically do everything I need in Excel but the amount of formulas and data in there would make it cumbersome and a huge pain to maintain, which is why I'm thinking of other options.  I wouldn't expect there to be any support needed, basically I'd just create a template that has everything everyone needs and then send that sucker out into the world, maybe with some instructions to everyone else on how to update it if they need to make any changes.  Wouldn't be updated real time by multiple users, everyone would have their own copy and select what they want when they need to knock up a quote for a client.

The advantage of Google Docs would be that it was web based and thus would allow remote access, use from mobile devices etc. the downside is that it is more of a pain than Excel to cod.

[tubby]

Got it.  Thanks for the tips, I shall investigate.

[Kashinoda]

Reseller hosting, any recommendations guys?

I was going to use 34sp.com as they've always been stellar, but £30 a month is pushing it without a huge amount of clients.

Nevermind, went with Smart Hosting... seems a good ticket.

[aggerdid]

Anyone in this thread involved in web design/logo design and based near liverpool? Been trying to get quotes and nobody is getting back to me. Even been emailing uni lecturers to see if any students want the work.

[Kashinoda]

Anyone in this thread involved in web design/logo design and based near liverpool? Been trying to get quotes and nobody is getting back to me. Even been emailing uni lecturers to see if any students want the work.

Guy who does it for me can give you a quote, though I'm based in the South East.

[aggerdid]

Yeah thats fine direct message me his details if you would. Just would have prefered a face to face but a skype call would be just as good

[Malaysian Kopite]

How do you guys figure out how much to charge/quote?

[Kashinoda]

How do you guys figure out how much to charge/quote?

By no means treat this as accurate but I done a bit a research a few months ago based on quotes and displayed prices per-page and found a trend line.



This doesn't include e-commerce mind you, and prices are skewed towards businesses in the South East.

[Malaysian Kopite]

Seems expensive that, especially when if you just knock up a few pages on Wordpress and find a great theme.

[SP]

Seems expensive that, especially when if you just knock up a few pages on Wordpress and find a great theme.

With a small business client there is no "just". Convert those into an hourly rate, and it is not far off. 

[Claire.]

I used to do estimates on the time I'd need and then times it by my day rate, adding on 25% or so for change requests and bug fixes & QA. Small businesses are the worst for asking for changes, deffo no such thing as 'knocking a few pages' up in my experience.

[Kashinoda]

I used to do estimates on the time I'd need and then times it by my day rate, adding on 25% or so for change requests and bug fixes & QA. Small businesses are the worst for asking for changes, deffo no such thing as 'knocking a few pages' up in my experience.

It's a massive annoyance, especially when you're starting off and it's them who seem to think they're doing you a favour.

Seems expensive that, especially when if you just knock up a few pages on Wordpress and find a great theme.

You say this mate but honestly you can end up spending ages on the smallest things, nature of the business. Also Wordpress is a fantastic backend but just because a theme is pretty doesn't mean it's entirely functional or will do what you want it to do. You really need CSS skills and a bit of PHP under your belt to get the most out of everything, then things start to fall under skilled labour. 

[PaulF]

Solely for internal use, just the output being sent to clients, no audit record or anything, it wouldn't be a controlled document.

What advantage does Google Docs have over Excel?  I can basically do everything I need in Excel but the amount of formulas and data in there would make it cumbersome and a huge pain to maintain, which is why I'm thinking of other options.  I wouldn't expect there to be any support needed, basically I'd just create a template that has everything everyone needs and then send that sucker out into the world, maybe with some instructions to everyone else on how to update it if they need to make any changes.  Wouldn't be updated real time by multiple users, everyone would have their own copy and select what they want when they need to knock up a quote for a client.

If it's going to be too big and cumbersome and a pain to maintain in Excel  ( which you are familiar with). Then it's unlikely you'll be able to build anything better in another technology.
In theory, you can architect it correctly and use a database to help out. But the learning curve to get there is too much.
Better off sitting down for a day and working out how you'd rebuild the spreadsheet to implement the model more effectively.
Given the huge volumes the boys in the city throw at Excel for modelling it'd be a surprise if you can't rebuild your spreadhseet to do as you want. Possibly with a few macros to help things along?

[Barneylfc∗]

Not sure where to put this, so in here will do as there's bound to be someone that knows.

how do I convert an xml file to something that is readable?

[SP]

Not sure where to put this, so in here will do as there's bound to be someone that knows.

how do I convert an xml file to something that is readable?

Open it in internet explorer is the simple answer. Beyond that, what is readable?

xslt is the techie answer.

[tubby]

If it's going to be too big and cumbersome and a pain to maintain in Excel  ( which you are familiar with). Then it's unlikely you'll be able to build anything better in another technology.
In theory, you can architect it correctly and use a database to help out. But the learning curve to get there is too much.
Better off sitting down for a day and working out how you'd rebuild the spreadsheet to implement the model more effectively.
Given the huge volumes the boys in the city throw at Excel for modelling it'd be a surprise if you can't rebuild your spreadhseet to do as you want. Possibly with a few macros to help things along?

Thanks for the tips.  I've managed to secure some development resource (by whingeing like crazy for days at my manager), so I'll work something out with those guys.

[Barneylfc∗]

Open it in internet explorer is the simple answer. Beyond that, what is readable?

xslt is the techie answer.

Tried that. Didn't work. May aswell be trying to read wingdings. What is xslt?

[Claire.]

Tried that. Didn't work. May aswell be trying to read wingdings. What is xslt?

http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/ enjoy!

[Claire.]

It's a massive annoyance, especially when you're starting off and it's them who seem to think they're doing you a favour.

You say this mate but honestly you can end up spending ages on the smallest things, nature of the business. Also Wordpress is a fantastic backend but just because a theme is pretty doesn't mean it's entirely functional or will do what you want it to do. You really need CSS skills and a bit of PHP under your belt to get the most out of everything, then things start to fall under skilled labour. 

Yep! Part of the reason it's a well paid profession is because 99% of the time you're dealing with people who have absolutely no idea what it is that you do

Re Wordpress, I wouldn't be trying to sell wordpress sites unless you know how to make a theme, or at least customise and add to a simple base theme. I've only done bits and bobs wordpress but I have done drupal sites and I'd be ashamed of myself if I'd took someone else's work, added some content and flogged it on. That's not development.

[Kashinoda]

Yep! Part of the reason it's a well paid profession is because 99% of the time you're dealing with people who have absolutely no idea what it is that you do

Re Wordpress, I wouldn't be trying to sell wordpress sites unless you know how to make a theme, or at least customise and add to a simple base theme. I've only done bits and bobs wordpress but I have done drupal sites and I'd be ashamed of myself if I'd took someone else's work, added some content and flogged it on. That's not development.

There's whole businesses who do it though.

My friend worked for a local company who employed 5-10 people, his work consisted of customising existing WP themes and selling them on. I'd understand if you were going solo but the whole place was based on it, bizarre.

[Claire.]

Suppose they get away with it because so much is open source and most developers are quite generous in what they share. If you wanted to you could copy and paste your way to success, only thing you have to know is what needs to go where. You'd obviously get found out going for jobs but self employed, or find a company like that, and you'd be fine I guess.

Still, don't think I could do it myself, no point if you're not learning or understanding what you're doing.

[SP]

Suppose they get away with it because so much is open source and most developers are quite generous in what they share. If you wanted to you could copy and paste your way to success, only thing you have to know is what needs to go where. You'd obviously get found out going for jobs but self employed, or find a company like that, and you'd be fine I guess.

Still, don't think I could do it myself, no point if you're not learning or understanding what you're doing.

If you charge a rate proportionate to the amount of work, it could be the correct solution for a particular client. I could do it for a client, but would not want to make a habit of it - it is tedious if nothing else.

[Claire.]

At the mo, I'm digging round in the ABCpdf docs and if someone could give me a solution that would work for what I need to do, I'd happily copy and paste it. Doing my fucking head in.

[PaulF]

I'd be ashamed of myself if I'd took someone else's work, added some content and flogged it on. That's not development.

Surely most software (web) development is copy\pasting other people's work? 
That's not to say there isn't a huge degree of skill\experience in knowing what to copy and to where to achieve a goal, or to add creative genius to the mix.

OOP is basically about code reuse...

[Claire.]

That was in reference to people who download a skin for wordpress, apply it, add some dummy content and then sell it on as if they've done all the work.