Topic: Round Table: Swansea 0-0 Liverpool

[rednich85]

It was all so predictable, wasn't it?

That's not a negative, nor is it a positive. I just feel this side is still trying to adapt, adjust. Our ability to recycle the ball and keep possession is getting better but there's a lack of imagination, lack of a spark that's needed to turn possession into goals. Sure, there's Luis Suarez, doing what he does but (about to state the obvious) apart from him, there's very little to get excited about. Sterling? Of course, he's an amazing prospect but I fear he's already seen a bit too much action. Not that you would think that to look at his performances to date.

Pepe's distribution was fantastic, especially when Swansea pushed a high line and pressurised the defense, Pepe was able to cut out 3-4 Swansea pressers with a simple 30 yard lofted pass. Simple in theory, not so simple to execute time and time again.

I've watched the game back, was it just me or did the pitch seem a bit heavy? I'm not trying to make excuses or nothing but it was clear both teams looked fatigued at the 70 minute mark. Even Sterling in full flow looked a bit slower than his usual fleet footedness.

Gerrard is looking more and more redundant in the role he's been asked to do. Enrique provides a willing runner on the left. Thats about it. Allen looks like he needs an extended rest. The lad looks spent and the frightening efficiency of his, has been missing recently. He looks like he has the whole world on his shoulders at times. Probably a consequence of playing with an ineffective Gerrard.

As fans it's frustrating. The improvements are of small increments.

[John C]

I think this one goes down as one of the most predictable results of the season so far.

You're right mate and I think that brought the frustration out of me immediately after the game hence I wrote this and still stand by it ..............
I’m struggling to be positive about that point because it was predictable, most of us had genuinely hoped for a point and worried about defeat, so after 90 minutes with not much to enthuse about apart from some first half possession it just makes me pause for thought. I said at half time we could have pressed on and won but we were incapable and the late, wrong subs didn’t help.

The highlight of the afternoon was Downing being subbed for Cole, I’m not sure whether we or Downing should be more concerned because its just not cricket.

SG was poor, Allen gave the ball away and Henderson was an average footballer today. When the heart of your team is like that with no cavalry on the bench we have to take stock.

Glen, Skrtel & Agger were great and Enrique put another fairly good shift in. Suarez needs competent attacking support, but we know that.

We lacked flair, tempo, penetration and guile imo, and the misses don’t provide the usual ‘if only’ for me. Perhaps if Glen had lifted in over the keeper in the first half the rest of the game would have been more positive.

Liverpool Football club went to Swansea, could only match them in the game and many are relieved. So, that’s where were are, perhaps we are a couple of buys away from making a leap but that’s is whats needed – we cannot rely on our current squad including Stevie.

I’m more than aware they beat us last year and they've taken a few scalps but if a draw at a perceived tough ground is all we can continue to muster then the quicker some of our expensive players are replaced with players that match their appropriate value, the better.

I’m not criticising BR, I’m fully behind him and I hope the weight of 31 days in January is.

Rodgers made a big play about being able - in all areas of the pitch - to get 'behind' the opposition, whether that's the line of defence or the line of midfield. We're not getting anywhere near enough of that from our midfield, whilst making it very easy for the opposition.

Exactly, how many times do you find yourself pointing and saying there's the space.

[gandalf50]

There's still more questions than answers. Still shoving round pegs into square holes to meet some unseen but ever present law. Of course, there's the lack of depth in the squad and injured players to use as an excuse, but let's face it, Stewart Downing at left back... I just don't get it.

No doubt, people will read that and think I'm going to slate Downing. Far from it, if I could have a word in his ear, I'd say "go to work, pack your gear, go home, without looking in the "Let us down" envelopes, refuse to go back and start rooting for a new club before you're career is completely fucked up."

I'm not Downing's biggest fan, but I'm not stupid enough to think he's the absolute dross some make him out to be. I wonder if they have ever played on the wing and been forced into playing foolback. It's not on. The two positions are as different as night and day. I played on the wing back when they played with a head in a sack. And I had to fill in at full back once. It was horrible. I know some wingers can make the adjustment, but for most of them it's like swimming with deep sea diving boots on.

Nowadays, full back is one of the most demanding positions in a team. Downing clearly can't play it. The lad doesn't have the nous. But let alone being caught out of position, once that ball went over his head, his confidence was completely shot. So, he hid and fucked things up when someone was forced into playing him the ball. I swear the lad will become a drooling, shaking, shell shocked, nervous wreck if he stays here.

What has all that got to do with yesterday's game? Draw your own conclusions, but I reckon it's pretty obvious and has an awful lot to say about what is going on at the moment. Does that mean I'm pissed off with the all powerful philosophy that must be obeyed like gravity, yeah. In a nutshell, yeah. And for the first time in me life, I've accepted that LFC are a mediocre mid-table team. Even under Hodge Podge, I didn't think that. But I have came to accept that we have thrown this season away, and that we won't be going anywhere fast next season, either.

No doubt, that will get screamed down as heresy. That's alright. I'm quite comfortable now that I've accepted what we are, what the aims are, and how things are probably going to be for sometime to come. I know that will piss lots of people off. So, be it. I'm comfy with it. I'm a Liverpudlian. Even though I don't go the match anymore, I'll still watch week in week out. I'll hope for the best and accept what ever happens. I'll take no notice of the Shankly like rhetoric coming from the owners, management and players. I'll look at the reality of the other statements, and I'll just accept more and more games like this. And, in answer to the expected bollockings, I've always supported LFC no matter what state it was in. I'm doing no different now. The club is what is, and, I suppose, what is now, is a step up from worrying about formidable opponents like Northampton.

If the club manage move people like Cole, Downing etc on early in January and let Brendan spend a decent amount on some quality players, would you trust him to bring in players that would improve us immediately and in the medium to long term?

[Groundskeeper Willie]

He had a nicer way of putting it than me, but that's basically my outlook... just watch it, try to enjoy it, hope for the best, expect and demand nothing. And coming to that conclusion is a bit of a relief, really.

No offence but it sounds like you´ve given up. I´m sure that´s not the case and I know I haven´t.

I expect and demand a lot of things. It´s just that we´re such a mother of a ship to turn around and that will take some time and some doing.

So what I  expect and demand right now is to see improvement over time, from game to game. I expect and demand everyone connected to the club to give their all to set things right to get us back to the top end of the table. In time. For a lot of well known reasons we aren´t there now, we can´t be there now.

There are still lots of question marks to straighten out, but I have a positive feeling about Liverpool Football Club now. More than I´ve had since Rafa left. I see (in my limited knowledge) positive signs out there on the pitch.

If I should make a comparison between game 1 of the season and game 13, I will argue until my last breath that we are a better team now and I see no reason why we won´t continue to improve. It will no doubt be a long, hard journey with plenty of bumps in the road but that will only make it so much sweeter in the end.

I´ll put the weed away now. 

[steveeastend]

And if you want to feel a bit better look at the teams around us, Arsenal barely creating a chance against the worst Villa team in living memory and losing at Norwich, Spurs losing at home to Wigan and shipping 5 goals against their north London rivals, Everton unable to turn over QPR or Norwich and losing to Reading.

It´s because the intensity of a game went up dramatically compared to a couple of years ago. Gerrard mentioned it himself in his book.

There is no way to outplay a team without being on absolute 100% fitness wise, as all the teams nowadays are physically that strong and fit to make it narrow enough for having to pass the ball in full speed as quick as possible without any rest for finding spaces. Tackles are very intense and all of this again proves the need for a top tactical set up in order to (out)pass rather than relying on individual quality by playing a direct game.

Basically, with too many games, it has become very tough for the top teams to win games on a regular basis like it used to be.

I like it as it kind of breaks the dominance of money, the greed of the CL backfires on the big clubs as even the biggest clubs cannot affort to have two entire top eleven around. It´s simply not possible in a competitive european football enviroment.

[didi shamone]

I've resigned myself to the fact that nothing is going to change before January. We've improved to the point of no longer being a soft touch and unbeaten runs are not to be sneezed at, but without strikers I believe we've hit the wall in terms of improvement.  Interestingly enough in a week when Kuyt, Carroll and even the much maligned Charlie Adam scored, Liverpool failed to do so again. No joy for Maxi or Bellamy mind you. But the point is with some or all of these players, or even one or two adequate replacements, our lot would be much healthier.
We now stand one long term injury to Suarez away from a potential relegation battle, or possibly one quality striker away from a tilt at fourth place. It really feels that delicately balanced. Vulmea is spot on in his post about the fact that our squad isn't weak..its just chronically imbalanced. Had we signed Dempsey we'd still be a Suarez injury away from having no striker. It's a ludicrous situation for any club to find themselves in.

As for Sunday, I couldn't see Downing as a fullback in any of his appearances. He just doesn't have the positional sense. Sooner or later it will see us come unstuck. Robinson should be doing his job there.

Johnson is a class player. Is he getting better every year, or was I just not aware of how good he actually is?

Our centre halves were quality. Thank fuck Agger stayed. One of my all time favourite reds.

I've made it clear many times that I'd rather see Gerrard further forward. Looks like we won't see that until Lucas returns. He simply can't play three full games in a week either and Rodgers is going to have big calls to make.
Allen did ok. but again further forward is where I'd like to see him. I thought Henderson did well but was a little unsure of his role. Is he capable of becoming a more dynamic player? Only time will tell.

Substitutions had little impact but I can see the logic in why they came on. It just didn't work.

Expectations for Spurs is more of the same.

[Flinstone]

hmmm...i don't expect anything just enjoy watching the games and i feel we are progressing.just a few problems.

everyone knows this is a long term project so-

1)why not start giving jack robinson a shot at left back.if wisdom was deemed ready he surely is.

2)what is the future position of gerrard?if brendan see's it as deep then he's going to be a bench player because lucas and allen are ahead of him.unless allen is going to be furthest forward which he isn't suited to.

3)if we get a player to fill the space that suarez vacates where exactly is suarez going to play?

4)why are carra and coates both on the bench?

oh and we need to learn when to speed up play and when to slow it down soon

[tomred]

We're a couple of things short of being a very good team. We're missing a few players (a couple more strikers, Lucas back from injury, possibly a left back and a defensive midfielder) and we're missing the collective arrogance and hunger that demands that we win games rather than draw them. Time will sort out the gaps in the squad. The hiring of the psychologist will hopefully help to address the arrogance/hunger point, but ultimately that comes down to the manager. We have some players at the club that think they've made it by being at the club. We need to shift that mentality to one where a draw against Swansea is seen as devastating/unacceptable.

[Fat Scouser]

If the club manage move people like Cole, Downing etc on early in January and let Brendan spend a decent amount on some quality players, would you trust him to bring in players that would improve us immediately and in the medium to long term?

I think the question is more, will he get the money to bring them in.

No offence but it sounds like you´ve given up.

No offence taken. I have gave up. I don't even go the match any more. But that's not to say I don't care. I'm just going to sit back, watch and see what happens. Well, that's how I feel right now, any way. Couple of pints and a spliff, no doubt I'll be ranting about world domination, again, for the umpteenth time.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Couple of pints and a spliff, no doubt I'll be ranting about world domination, again, for the umpteenth time.

Looking forward to it.

[John C]

We're half a season into Rodger's reign, with a naive mistake on FSG's part meaning we were left very short in attacking options and not surprisingly we are finding it difficult to score. I don't think we should necessarily be drawing conclusions about weakness's in Rodgers systems from this situation. When you're building you get both glimpses of the problems as well as glimpses of the future.

Fair points there mate.

[Fat Scouser]

Fair points there mate.

It is, indeed. But let's be honest, it seems like a hell of a lot longer.

[John C]

He may forever be the lad who can do 100 keepy-uppies with a tennis ball but doesn't seem to have the balls to impose his skills on a game of eleven-a-side.

I'm surprised to read this from you yorky, I thought you were a massive fans of Henderson and didn't realise you'd started to see him differently.

[Gitsy606]

We're half a season into Rodger's reign, with a naive mistake on FSG's part meaning we were left very short in attacking options and not surprisingly we are finding it difficult to score. I don't think we should necessarily be drawing conclusions about weakness's in Rodgers systems from this situation. When you're building you get both glimpses of the problems as well as glimpses of the future.

3rd of the season, which makes your point even more valid.

[John C]

It is, indeed. But let's be honest, it seems like a hell of a lot longer.

Undeniably FS, the scarcity of wins becomes concerning. I'm mindful that a draw at Swansea can be regarded as a decent point when big name casualties are thrown at you, but for me it was another predictable point. Put it another way, how many will seriously predict a win on Wednesday against Spurs?

[Fat Scouser]

John mate, people seem to think I've been having a pop in this thread. I haven't. I think expecting fuck all is a good way to look at things. We mightn't have won the league in 23 years, but I always thought we could and it was only a matter of time till we did. I suppose, even that hasn't changed. I just accept that it's not going to be any time in the foreseeable future.

That's not a dig at Rodgers. It's just the way it is.

[Yorkykopite]

I'm surprised to read this from you yorky, I thought you were a massive fans of Henderson and didn't realise you'd started to see him differently.

I've never been a 'massive fan' John. I think my first reaction  - certainly here on RAWK - on seeing him play was that Kenny had invested a worryingly large amount of money in a player who was surprisingly "raw". It seemed like Henderson had such a lot to learn when he arrived. Against that there was something about the lad's humility that, at the right club, made you feel he would absorb what he was told and improve. He had natural attributes that all good footballers want as well. He was full of stamina and could move at a decent lick. And I must say that whenever he played in central midfield he seemed to show definite promise, being reasonably neat in possession and full of running. 

Eighteen months on though I feel I'm broadly looking at the same player. He's not a bad one by any means, but he's nowhere near the calibre of player you wanted him to be when he first arrived. Some of his off the ball running still looks a bit stupid to me. A lot of his decision-making is just plain wrong. He's not particularly composed and intelligent on the ball. But nor is he a truly dynamic presence like Ramirez or Dembele or the QPR lad. He's certainly not going to be anything like a replacement for Steven Gerrard.

Will he be happy playing second fiddle, getting three or four league starts a season? Do you know what? I think he will. That maybe gets to the heart of his problem. He doesn't really believe in himself.

[Garcepticon]

Im worried, because I think we are going to get smashed by Spurs and I don't think our fans will react well to it at all.

Which is fair enough, in this game Everton, Newcastle and others we should have got more points. I enjoyed some of the game, but I think we are genuinely scared of attacking because of how open we were early on. We dont want to over commit and that was ludicrously obvious towards the end. Henderson's energy was misplaced, we needed that alongside Allen to win the midfield completely and build a solid platform for a win. Rodgers 4-1-4-1 shape was pretty solid out of possession, didnt look like conceding.

[Fat Scouser]

Well, I'm off now, but my truthful assessment of this game before I lay down on the floor and try to sleep (not been in a bed for nearly six months with sciatica)... like most games, Brendan seemed to be doing his boy at the Dyke impression, yet again. The question is, is he plugging the holes only for them to appear elsewhere, or is he plugging one and creating more?

Obviously, it's far too early to answer. Thinness of squad, injuries, needing more time and more of his own players, so many factors make it impossible to give a proper assessment and opinion.

In earlier games, I seen a huge problem with the tippy tappy malarkey at the back, the wide spread center backs, the pushed up full backs, and big gaps between the banks of players. Any team with a bit of pace only had to sit back waiting to hit us on the counter, or push up onto our center halves and harry them until they eventually played themselves into trouble by arsing about with the ball. He seemed to solve that. We stopped over egging the pudding. When called for, we hit it long and more direct without hoofing. We got tighter. We lost a few players, the gaps appeared between the banks of players again and different problems popped up on other areas of the pitch. We've gone 9 unbeaten now, but there doesn't seem to be much cohesion from one game to another.  From what I can see and what's being said at the club, it's going to be like that for some time.

I could go on, but in a nutshell... in me better moments I call it patience. I've preached it for over 2 decades. Now, I've just decided to not expect or want anything. And I'm sure it's going to be more enjoyable that way.

[gandalf50]

Im worried, because I think we are going to get smashed by Spurs and I don't think our fans will react well to it at all.

Which is fair enough, in this game Everton, Newcastle and others we should have got more points. I enjoyed some of the game, but I think we are genuinely scared of attacking because of how open we were early on. We dont want to over commit and that was ludicrously obvious towards the end. Henderson's energy was misplaced, we needed that alongside Allen to win the midfield completely and build a solid platform for a win. Rodgers 4-1-4-1 shape was pretty solid out of possession, didnt look like conceding.

Going by our results against them, over the last couple of seasons, I don`t see too many having anything more than hope going into this game rather than expectation.
But we still seem to raise our game when up against the better teams.

[Thog]

Pepe Reina was bloody good today, wasn't he? Used the ball efficiently, shot stopping was good, and his punching from corners were solid. Makes you think back to that punch at Goodison earlier in the season...
 
I thought he was improved but hardly had anything really testing his limits. Some decent punches, yes, but that's what you expect from a good goalkeeper. Though when he came out for the 50/50 he showed great reading of the game and bravery to put his body on the line. Distribution and footwork was excellent as always.

I thought Skrtel and Agger had their best day as a pair today too. The clean sheet was nice, yeah, but more than that they looked like a proper centre half pairing today.

Don't think it was their best performance together but they were definitely solid. And it will only get better once Lucas returns - Agger and Skrtel are being told to try and nick the ball off the strikers when played into them at all times because we don't have a natural ballwinner in there currently and therefore we concede soft free kicks at times. Also we are playing a much higher line on and off the ball, something we cannot do with Carragher in the side and it deters us when he does play. We may not notice it but their partnership is improving all the time, we usually think of them as the reliable guys but this is a new system for them aswell. I don't think they are particularly used to the centre backs splitting so far apart and it's a real learning curve for them. They are getting a better understanding of when to split etc and it's these little things that will keep us steadily improving.
 
Is it already time to press the detonate button on the Downing at left back experiment?
 
It wasn't his best performance but it is a new position for him after all and I thought he was excellent on Thursday in that position. The only problem is if people watched that game they will know about his weakness in the air and target it. This isn't like the La Liga where they can get away with it e.g Jordi alba. He bottles it, in tackles aswell and it's quite embarrassing really. I'd give him a few games from now until January as a chance to prove himself as we do have a lot of games coming up so rotation will be required but as it stands, would definitely sell him in January. The worst thing about it, he actually has quality, watched him at Aston Villa and thought he was a completely different player to the one at Middlesborough who I thought was overrated - but even there he was better than he was there. Those first few games, he was brilliant for us but once we lost those two games on the trot, he went back into his shell and just dropped his head completely.

Glen Johnson is magnificent, eh? If you disagree, just keep your opinion to yersel'. 
 
First half he was exceptional, and it's clear for everyone to see that right back is his best position if it wasn't already. We have maybe found a new position for Enrique who should have had his second goal in two starts in that position so a left back could be on the agenda for Rodgers in January. Should have done better with his chance though. That little backheel to Suarez in the box was sublime. Made some good penetrating runs aswell but wasn't found the majority of the time. You certainly get the sense that he's enjoying playing under Rodgers and it's no surprise really as Johnson was one of the first players Rodgers spoke to and told him he wants him to stay. He's also come out on record to say he thinks Johnson is up there with Dani Alves.

Did our midfield three function well? Did Rodgers get the positioning right by playing Henderson highest of the midfield three?

I thought it did, and once Shelvey came on it actually made us worse. Thought the sub was made at the right time though, Henderson put a right shift in and was tiring. Don't think Henderson was actually the highest of the midfield three but was made to look that way as he was pressing them and working his bollocks off in comparison to Gerrard who only seems to bother when we are attacking. They cut through our midfield at times and it's why sometimes I feel we need to have 2 at the base. The problem with that is it doesn't help us when we are trying to press. Catch 22 here for Rodgers and until Lucas comes back it's a big problem. Henderson and Allen at the base with Gerrard in his pomp just ahead would be perfect.
 
Does Enrique bring more positives than negatives at left wing?

For sure. Does his bit defensively aswell, helped Downing out no end. Should have 2 goals to his name in just 2 starts in that position which is telling us he's getting into the right positions and doing the right things. Like I said before, this could be his new position so a left back could be on the radar for Rodgers.
 
What did we make of Rodgers' subs?
 
Can see why he brought Cole for Downing, I think I might have done it if I was in his shoes aswell because of the goal on Thursday but felt we were were struggling to maintain possession and lost control of the game, unlike the first half. This meant that when Cole came on, he was starved of the ball and failed to make an impact. Felt Sahin should have come on for Henderson rather than Shelvey. Suso should have come on for Gerrard to try and exploit those spaces left open by Swansea, seems to excel in that no.10 role when coming off the bench, but it was never going to happen so would have taken Downing off for Suso, drop Enrique back, with Suso on the right and Sterling on the left, give something different for Rangel to think about, same for their left back who's name evades me.

[jaffod]

This was one of the strangest Premiership games I've ever seen. It had all the tempo of a pre-season friendly and felt at times as if both teams were more concerned about 'out-footballing' each other than actually winning the game. Both sides feared the humiliation a long ball would bring and it reminded me of the old adage 'death before dishonour'.
 I'd have taken a point beforehand because I'm a natural pessimist but in all honesty I thought we made Swansea look very average. W kept possession well and bossed it for the main part but as we all know we have about as much penetration as John Wayne Bobbitt did in the weeks after his Mrs lopped off his cock. It was the same old story as we passed it to death. Admittedly Johnson and Sterling were unlucky not to score and on another day Enrique's goal might have stood but does anybody ever watch us and think "we are going to score in a minute" like you do when you watch the likes of Man U?
 That Johnson and Enrique look our most dangerous players atm (with the obvious exception of Suarez) is cause for concern. There is very little goal threat from midfield and I worry that this will be compounded when Lucas returns. It really is time for BR to try something different with Stevie if only to shut up all the ungrateful quims on these boards.
 I'm a glass half full sort of bloke as many will already know but with LFC being what they are these days I think it's fully justified. Despite an 8 game unbeaten run we still can't climb into the top half of the table and I don't see any reason to believe that will change on Wednesday night. I think Spurs will turn us over as they generally do and then we are into December with 6 games we would have won with ease back in the day and we will desperately need to take 12 points minimum from them otherwise patience will start to wear thin.
 Just a word on the Downing at left-back disaster. I seriously can't believe BR ever thought this was an option. To play him there when there are at least 3 better alternatives available was madness. I was actually quite happy to see him in the starting 11 in the hope he might finally come good but not at LB ffs! Let's hope it doesn't happen again.

[John C]

I've never been a 'massive fan' John.

I've misinterpreted something then yorky. Earlier this season, perhaps even late last season when I've struggled to see what he's offered I've posted something like "I need some of yorkys inspiration" thinking you saw something special in him.

[steveeastend]

I am surprised how quick people would point to us "passing it to death".

I didn´t have the impression at all at the moment, to me it just looks like playing some proper football but that  just shows how different football can be seen and judged.

[TitanTrigger]

I am surprised how quick people would point to us "passing it to death".

I didn´t have the impression at all at the moment, to me it just looks like playing some proper football but that  just shows how different football can be seen and judged.

I think it just comes from a frustration where people can perhaps see a more direct route to goal. However the stats show that we are creating on average 3 extra chances per game than we were last season. Retaining possession and trying to pick through a defense rather than crosses coming in and being cleared by defenders.

[steveeastend]

I think it just comes from a frustration where people can perhaps see a more direct route to goal. However the stats show that we are creating on average 3 extra chances per game than we were last season. Retaining possession and trying to pick through a defense rather than crosses coming in and being cleared by defenders.

For playing more direct you need better quality. We are far from that, it´s simply not possible at the moment. And IF you have this quality around then again one could raise the point why waste the ball when it´s easier to rest being in possession and wait for the best opportunity in order to play as efficient as possible for staying fresh for the entire length of a season.

[Yorkykopite]

I've misinterpreted something then yorky. Earlier this season, perhaps even late last season when I've struggled to see what he's offered I've posted something like "I need some of yorkys inspiration" thinking you saw something special in him.

Probably not mate. I often operate according to the principle of hopeless optimism.

[farawayred]

I am surprised how quick people would point to us "passing it to death".

I didn´t have the impression at all at the moment, to me it just looks like playing some proper football but that  just shows how different football can be seen and judged.

Maybe the giving it away all too often took the glare off our passing game and we never clicked into gear. Any gear higher than first that is. There were a few moments when the engine was revving only for the exhaust to go boom-boom-boom...

I thought there was too little risk taking on both sides, and we did have enough chances to win, but again, we didn't take them.

[GrkStav]

Personally, I think that we're not passing the ball "to death" enough, sometimes. Enrique (in general) and Johnson in the second half, for example, needlessly surrendered possession by not making the obvious, direct, easily executable, pass or even series of passes. For a possession and passing oriented team, thoughtless either holding on to the ball individually or iffy passing are cardinal sins.

It seems simplistic, but you gotta see three-four moves and passes down the line, and so does practically every one else on your team. If you dilly-dally and miss out on the opportunity for the direct, indicated pass, then choose an alternative pass, then move, and then receive and execute a now easier pass in the originally intended direction. If you've made a move intended to draw a defender out of position so that a team-mate can become free if he moves, then when you receive the pass make sure the defender has 'registered' your movement and has responded before passing it back to the sender to execute the next, more incisive pass, or making the pass to the team-mate yourself.

[DanA]

I don't think there was a problem with the approach or excessive passing. It's more too do with the lack of ideas up forward. It's a worn out discussion, like many have said, we have too few goal threats with really the only plan right now being give it to Suarez. As good as he is he can't do it alone, we need other genuine goal threats to draw defenders from him. Enrique and Sterling have played some good football but they're not 10-15 goal a season players. Until we have that goal threat teams will play tight on Suarez we'll look like we did here against Swansea. Which is a little dull and toothless.
 

[tamadic]

To reverse the more logical role for Gerrard and Henderson was kinda surprisingly to me.
Everyone in the world (who watching PL) knows Gerrard loves to bombing forward, why just let him be the AM?
And, Henderson has no determination and confidence being the offensive engine, why didn't we just stick him in the old Lucas role??
And again, can we just once, play Gerrard as the RW/RF for the team?

[Halibut-Thumb]

I can't wait for a fit Lucas. Him and Allen could give Stevie/Jonjo/Sahin the space and cover they need to dictate a game.

[Xxavi]

I watched the game and here is what I thought about it:

The control of the ball and hence game when to back and forth. In the end, it looked like a team of very comparable quality, which I think is a bad sign for Brendan Rodgers, because the squad is certainly better at Liverpool. There was a distinct lack of creative spark for Liverpool, and in the second half, when Swansea got tired, he should have made changes earlier. His subs didn't have a positive impact at all, may be Shelvey had a little with that shot. The changes should have been sooner, and I think Suso should have been the one to come on as well, because he could create something. Potentially at least.

Honestly, I expected a Swansea domination and a win, so I thought Liverpool did well in a sense. Rodgers cannot buy a win, and he has to re-think about some of the things he does because you can be "unlucky" only so much, at some point you end up think "may be this has nothing to do with luck, it's just Liverpool's current level". He has to get serious about all competitions, get a win or two to bring up morale and confidence. Very careless in Europa League and League Cup, bad mistakes.

[Xxavi]

Oh and if I can criticize Rodgers little more, whilst installing a midfield based game is something that I consider the most important part of team building, it's not going to bring success alone in itself. I am yet to see one game where there's a team game up front . Some fluind passing and moving. The goals come from these scrappy pieces of individual play mostly from Suarez. I think he should put some team game, a lot of midtable teams like Swansea have a better team game up front.

The defense part of Liverpool's game is so and so, but I guess the big problem is attack at this point. What do you actually do with the ball that you have? Besides passing to Suarez that is.

PS With a team game, you can get a team that is better than sum of its parts. Without it, you are going to get a team that is less than sum of its parts. Rodgers, by no means, is getting the best out of the players he has at the moment. You can get away by relying on individuals if you are ManCity. If you are not, then you cannot as Di Matteo sacking showed it. Di Matteo was also clueless in installing a team game, it was 3 magicians getting the results.

[Max_powers]

Oh and if I can criticize Rodgers little more, whilst installing a midfield based game is something that I consider the most important part of team building, it's not going to bring success alone in itself. I am yet to see one game where there's a team game up front . Some fluind passing and moving. The goals come from these scrappy pieces of individual play mostly from Suarez. I think he should put some team game, a lot of midtable teams like Swansea have a better team game up front.

The defense part of Liverpool's game is so and so, but I guess the big problem is attack at this point. What do you actually do with the ball that you have? Besides passing to Suarez that is.

PS With a team game, you can get a team that is better than sum of its parts. Without it, you are going to get a team that is less than sum of its parts. Rodgers, by no means, is getting the best out of the players he has at the moment. You can get away by relying on individuals if you are ManCity. If you are not, then you cannot as Di Matteo sacking showed it. Di Matteo was also clueless in installing a team game, it was 3 magicians getting the results.

I think our "team game" has improved a lot to be honest and was probably better than Swansea the other night. The execution just wasn't there. The Pass for the enrique's goal was brilliant. Suarez and Sterling tried the one-two that failed and there were few more instances. Swansea on the other hand were completely reliant on Hernandez and there players missed many great opportunities to play the killer pass.

Even if you look at goals in Wigan game we didn't just score by passing the ball to Suarez and asking him to do everything. One of the goals was cross by sterling, other a brilliant through ball by Enrique and third came after a good one-two between suarez and sterling.

[DanA]

I think our "team game" has improved a lot to be honest and was probably better than Swansea the other night. The execution just wasn't there. The Pass for the enrique's goal was brilliant. Suarez and Sterling tried the one-two that failed and there were few more instances. Swansea on the other hand were completely reliant on Hernandez and there players missed many great opportunities to play the killer pass.

Even if you look at goals in Wigan game we didn't just score by passing the ball to Suarez and asking him to do everything. One of the goals was cross by sterling, other a brilliant through ball by Enrique and third came after a good one-two between suarez and sterling.

I agree that Enrique and Sterling are doing a good job supporting Suarez but it still remains that everything is pretty much going through him. The three examples you mention....Suarez was the scorer or the catalyst for the scoring opportunity. I'd struggle to think of a league goal this season he hasn't been involved in.

[Fat Scouser]

It's not over passing. It's predictable, slow and ponderous passing that's the problem. Yes, there's quite a bit of needless passing, but it's the tempo and sideways, sideways, back, nature of it that we've got to sort out. I think it was in the Reading game, one of our players was trapped in our half, quite near our goal, pretty much standing on the touch line. Expecting one of them early season possession disasters, I roared "Don't fuckin' lose it, knock it out!" I can't remember all the players involved, but within seconds, in a matter of about four passes the ball was in Reading's net.

I'm ashamed I can't remember all the people involved, fucking alcohol, pot and age. But I can see the goal in my head right now, and I'm not fantacising it. It was a thing of simple beauty. It gave me belief in Brendan's philosophy. I thought, if that's it in full flow, that'll do for me. And maybe it was. Maybe that's what we're in for when he's had the time, and money, to put it all together. But like I said, only time will tell and I'm just going to watch it unfold with no expectations.

And word of warning, far too much expectations are being put on Lucas. Best we just hope the lad comes back to being the player he was, instead of heaping pressure on him. He's had too much of that as it is.

[Max_powers]

I agree that Enrique and Sterling are doing a good job supporting Suarez but it still remains that everything is pretty much going through him. The three examples you mention....Suarez was the scorer or the catalyst for the scoring opportunity. I'd struggle to think of a league goal this season he hasn't been involved in.

Although Suarez was involved in all those goals the goals didn't have to be crafted solely by him. We are relying less and less on Suarez to create something out of nothing and more and more on him just doing the job a striker is supposed to do which is link up play and put the ball in the net. That to me is also the reason why Suarez has  better goal return this year.

[helmboy_nige]

Pepe Reina was bloody good today, wasn't he? Used the ball efficiently, shot stopping was good, and his punching from corners were solid. Makes you think back to that punch at Goodison earlier in the season...


Solid and safe.  i think he really needed that after young boys.  I know we were asking a lot for him to save those two against them, but Reina doesn't seem to have made many saves for such a long time.  On sunday he looked more like the old Reina and how we expected him to be under Rodgers in terms of his distribution.

I thought Skrtel and Agger had their best day as a pair today too. The clean sheet was nice, yeah, but more than that they looked like a proper centre half pairing today.

These two are so key to us.  As much as I like our young lads in Wisdom, Coates and Kelly the back line never feels secure without Skrtel and Agger together.  Gotta keep these guys fit.

Is it already time to press the detonate button on the Downing at left back experiment?

I think if we'd scored one of those first half chances I don't think we'd even be discussing Downing.  On one side we didn't concede a goal so you'd argue that Downing had a part to play in that, but it does feel like Downing is playing simply because we don't have a deep squad and to 'put him in the shop window'.  His career seems to be over at LFC.

Glen Johnson is magnificent, eh? If you disagree, just keep your opinion to yersel'. 

This man, when he attacks is a monster.  combined with Enrique we might have struck gold.

Did our midfield three function well? Did Rodgers get the positioning right by playing Henderson highest of the midfield three?

As others have said, elephant in the room with Gerrard.  Had a poor game.  Thought Henderson and Allen together did work, but Gerrard just destroys the balance.  I still can't figure why Gerrard isn't pushed up into the front positions when you consider that we could try a middle three of Shelvey, Henderson and Allen.  Plus we have Sahin and Lucas due back.  I do think Gerrard needs pulling out of that midfield, but am not sure if Rodgers will do it.

Does Enrique bring more positives than negatives at left wing?


Tough one.  He is very dangerous on the break, but his final ball can often let him down.  Having said that look at the passes to Suarez for the couple of goals in recent weeks.  He needs to spend more time in that position and let's see what happens.

What did we make of Rodgers' subs?

I always big up Rodgers when he makes some smart tactical choices, but I felt he got it wrong on Sunday.  I think a lot of it comes back to Gerrard and how he is used.  He was poor but Rodgers didn't sub him off.  I don't blame him as it takes a level of toughness to do it, and maybe Rodgers doesn't feel as secure in his position yet to take on a club legend.

on the whole the result was a good one, but perhaps we were setup to ensure we didn't concede first rather than push for the win.

[steveeastend]

Oh and if I can criticize Rodgers little more, whilst installing a midfield based game is something that I consider the most important part of team building, it's not going to bring success alone in itself.

That´s true but it is the foundation. Some people cannot stand comparisons with Barca as they are pretty unreachable at the moment but if you take out Messi the goal threat probably goes down by 50%.

If we manage to buy a top striker, Suarez could, and I think will, be "our Messi", dropping back to midfield, like he already does at the  moment, and causing massive trouble for the defense. We just don´t have the players benefiting from this at the moment up front.

One of the experiments which turned out to be pretty successful is playing Enrique upfront. No offense to Enrique, but you know there is something very wrong with the quality of the squad if we hope for Enrique to have a good game upfront.