Author Topic: Re: FIGHT BACK. WE HAVE TO STOP RBS REFINANCING!!!  (Read 121175 times)

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Re: FIGHT BACK. PART II... RBS REPLIES... BUT WE'RE NOT HAVING IT! JOIN US!
« Reply #400 on: June 25, 2010, 06:46:16 pm »
This quote was also in the article that has been quoted by Greyfox:

'And the Royal Bank of Scotland, which holds most of the team’s financing, plans to call in $144 million of that debt for payment this month. If Hicks and Gillett can’t pay, RBS has hinted that it will foreclose on their loans.'

If true, it may mean that this is optimum time to apply pressure to RBS, fats.


Is right mate. I'm going to clean this thread up in a minute and hopefully get people back on it. We can't stop pushing just when their looking wobbly.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Re: FIGHT BACK. PART II... RBS REPLIES... BUT WE'RE NOT HAVING IT! JOIN US!
« Reply #401 on: June 25, 2010, 06:48:08 pm »
The quote below is from the Off the Pitch threat article.....if you were to send RBS numerous emails with (due credit to the publisher..who bytheway seems to be an independent viewer...) with just that line on it, I would think that would get noticed...

One line, more effective than a wordy reasoned arguement, and its repitition constantly will make them think.....


“The default has finished him,” says the source who has seen Hicks’ books. “No one will personally lend to Tom Hicks again. His career is over.”
Okay mate. That's seems fair enough. But I also think we have to keep bombarding them with letters and emails. Like I just said to the beastie fella, 666, I'm going to get this thread sorted out, and push it again.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Re: FIGHT BACK. PART II... RBS REPLIES... BUT WE'RE NOT HAVING IT! JOIN US!
« Reply #402 on: June 25, 2010, 06:56:03 pm »
Right...
If you've been keeping tabs on this, you can see we're getting somewhere now. That's not just me geeing up the troops. The proof's all over the place. And I don't want to go on here, so straight to the point.....

I'm relaunching the letter. This is what has been drawing the replies out of them. So, I think it's still more than useful and relevant. And I think it should still be copied and sent. Letters carry so much more weight than emails.

But, I'm also going to post the form reply they've been sending. It's really important that we refuse to be placated by them. But anyway, here's the original letter for now, and the relevant people to mail it to. Make sure John Hourican and Vince Cable are amongst your targets....

To:
John Hourican
Chief Executive, Global Banking and Markets
RBS
36 St Andrew Square
Edinburgh
EH2 2YB


Distribution list:
cc. Suneel Kamlani, GBM
cc. Marco Mazzucchelli, GBM
cc. Alan Dickinson, UK Corporate
cc. Mark Catton, UK Corporate
cc. Roger Lowry, Head of Public Affairs
cc. Dr Vince Cable, Secretary of State BIS (1 Victoria Street London
SW1H 0ET)
cc. Jeremy C*nt, Secretary of State, Sport (2-4 Cockspur Street London
SW1Y 5DH)



Dear Mr Hourican

I wish to convey my ongoing and extreme dissatisfaction over the
management of the RBS loan facility provided to Tom Hicks and George
Gillett, that continues to prop up their catastrophic ownership of
Liverpool Football Club.

I am not a member, but the supporters union, Spirit of Shankly, one of
the most vociferous opponents of the current regime, recently ran an
billboard advertising campaign targeting the ownership of the club
that used the appropriate tag line "Debt, Lies, Cowboys". I am going
to unashamedly borrow that line as a structure to this letter.

Debt
As you know, the club's debts as of last July stood at £351m, of which
£237m constitutes the loan facility provided by RBS, the remainder
being in high-interest intra-company loan from Hicks and Gillett's
offshore holding company, Kop Cayman. These figures may have changed
slightly over the past 11 months since the accounts entered into the
public domain, but no additional investment has been secured by the
owners, and there remains no doubt that the overall debt is escalating
to a point whereby negative equity will very soon come into effect, if
not already a reality.

In addition to this, the club's ongoing ability to service such a debt
has become highly unsustainable. Improving sponsorship income is
relatively insignificant, and the only measure which could have
significantly supported this level of borrowing - the building of a
new stadium - has not in over 3 years, proceeded beyond architectural
renders, the apparent cost of which, an obscene £50m, has also been
put on the club's balance sheet. Against this backdrop of
unserviceable loans and gross financial misconduct, it is therefore no
surprise that the club's auditors, KPMG, have for the second year
running raised red flags, expressing "material uncertainty about
(the club's) ability to continue operating as a going concern". A
damning indictment that instigated the Premier League to demand that
the club's newly-installed Chairman, Martin Broughton (more on him
later), appear before their Chief Executive and Board of Directors in
person to provide verbal assurances that the club would in fact be
able to meet its fixture list for the forthcoming 2010-11 season.
Leaving aside the embarrassment, it is not difficult to see the
Premier League's perspective. The phrase "living hand to mouth"
springs to mind.

Forgive my stating the obvious to a senior professional banker at this
point, but it is purely to set up and illustrate a point. Like any
borrowings, the conditions for obtaining a credit facility of this
type is based on the financial background of the individuals in
question, their existing commitments, the value of the purchased
asset, and in the case of refinancing, I would imagine their recent
history and behaviour when it comes to servicing the existing loan,
and any others held by them. Which brings us to Tom Hicks.


Lies
Liverpool fans and credible media (both UK and global) are clear in
that Tom Hicks tells lies. The list is a long one but here is the
latest relevant example, provoked by the condemnation by the club's
former Chairman who deeply regrets selling to Hicks and Gillett. You
can view it online at the following URL, together with valid
deconstruction, here:http://www.spiritofshankly.com/news/Tom-Hicks-_-You-Couldn-sss-t-Make-It-Up-(Well-Actually,-Tom-Can).html

So, in addition to his established propensity for lies, l wish to
address the basis for the latest extension of the RBS facility, which
was conditional on the agreement that the club be officially put up
for sale, with Hicks conceding to step back from the process in order
to realise a quick transfer of ownership. This agreement was ratified
by the appointment of the aforementioned Martin Broughton, who has
confirmed that his is a short-term part-time role, the sole remit of
which is to find and approve an appropriate buyer for the club at a
fair market price. It is not difficult to assume therefore that his
appointment was at RBS' express request, via an intermediary third
party. "Within months" was Mr Brougton's statement on the timescale
for sale, upon taking up the position in April.

However, since then, there have been numerous interview quotes from
Hicks, arrogant and belligerent as ever, claiming that irrespective of
the 'For Sale' announcement, he will continue demand up to a totally
unrealistic £800m for the club and that he is willing to prolong the
situation and take up to two years to sell. He is even boasting in the
US media about how profitable Liverpool FC will be for him, all
bluster designed to divert attention from the harsh reality that he is
in financial dire straits and has been for some time. These comments
are clearly a stark contradiction of those reassurances he provided
the RBS with, and thus render them meaningless. Like us, the fans, you
are being lied to. It is not difficult to surmise that Hicks'
agreement to sell was simply a ploy to obtain 'breathing space' -
which you duly obliged with, at least verbally - in which to further
his agenda of financial pillage, possibly even petty revenge (on the
fans who have rightly not allowed him to act without accountability,
the "terrible personal price" he often complains about) but ultimately
a desire to seek personal profit whatever the cost to the club, or its
creditors.


Cowboys
Talking of creditors, what surely must be of even greater concern to
the RBS, is the eerily similar situation Hicks finds himself in with
his US sporting assets, the Dallas Stars and the Texas Rangers. In
April 2009, Hicks willingly allowed both clubs (operated by Hicks
Sports Group) to default on $525m loan, a premeditated decision that
Hicks himself insisted was a "negotiating tactic" designed to force
the banks to renegotiate the terms of the loan. I must try that line
myself next time I wake up one morning and take a sudden dislike to my
existing RBS mortgage rate, the one I happily agreed to on signing. In
fact, I would be, quite literally, betting my mortgage on the outcome
of that particular conversation.

Not content with just that small matter of defaulting on a half-
billion dollar loan, Hicks has now, as of a few weeks ago, forced the
Texas Rangers to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, following a
protracted and now stalemated sale process. Sound familiar? It gets
even worse, as although the Rangers owe $540m to their creditors, (the
majority secured against the club, the remainder against, yet again,
Hicks Sports Group, another part of Hicks Holdings LLC, the onus being
on the 'limited liability' aspect) under the terms of the sale
(preferred one of the two deals offered) that Hicks is trying to force
through, it seems the creditors only stand to receive $230m of the
$540m the club is being sold for. This has been extensively covered in
the US media and the facts verified. In which case, if I was sitting
in the RBS' shoes, I would have extreme concerns about Hicks
attempting the same financial sleight of hand, and asking myself
exactly what tangible assets the £237m loan I've provided is actually
secured against, given the paper trails of Hicks' myriad of limited
companies all end up offshore and with zero personal liability. Yes,
there is 'the club', but the owners are continuing to asset-strip
(sales of high value players required for ongoing success and
Champions League income, and the recent sacking of a highly-respected
manager who was outspoken in his condemnation of Hicks and Gillett's
ownership), siphon off funds and are unwilling to provide or accept
additional investment, all the while the value of the club is
depreciating along with the chances of realising the repayment on your
loan capital.

It should also be worth noting that latest reports this week state
that Hicks has yet again blocked any sale to two separate potential
buyers, simply on the basis of his wholly unrealistic asking price.
This adds considerable weight to the already strong opinion that,
unlike his co-owner George Gillett, Hicks has no intention of wanting
to sell the club. His asking price is said to include added valuation
for the future revenues generated by a stadium that he failed to
build, and that a new buyer will have to pay to build instead, a
stance that is as bizarre as it is illogical and which therefore
represents an insurmountable block to any sale, now or in the future.

Essentially, these actions speak, in fact, shout of a man whose
shameful conduct and objectionable character raises deeply concerning
questions about RBS' continuing exposure on this £237m loan and
subsequently, a very real threat to the continued existence of
Liverpool FC in its current status as one of Europe's leading football
clubs. This latest agreement for refinancing for up to 12 months,
ostensibly to allow a sales process to go through unimpaired and
without pressure, serves no-one's benefits except Tom Hicks. What will
be the excuse when he, as his history and substantial current evidence
suggests he will, sells off the prize assets, and files for bankruptcy
as per the Rangers, leaving the club in terminal financial decline or
worse, and with the RBS, the club's major creditor out of pocket? Not
to mention, the wider political consequences at allowing this to
happen unchallenged. Do not underestimate this last point, as this
matter is not an isolated one (the Glazer family's ownership - £1.2bn
of debt's worth - of Manchester United for example) but as with the
banking crisis that forced RBS to seek government bailout, you will
unfortunately be viewed as culpable through negligent inaction and
held to account.


Summary
And so to the crux of my expression of disgust and request for action.
Aside from the financial hand grenade that is currently being juggled,
the RBS and its majority shareholder HM Government have both a
collective financial and moral responsibility to ensure that such a
prestigious UK global export is not driven into unmanaged
administration and ruin by the stubborn and irresponsible actions of
two US nationals, one of whom in particular has a clear agenda and is
leveraged up to their neck in debt. By providing yet another loan
extension and/or refinance in order not to influence a sales process
(one that Hicks is clearly not committed to), the RBS and HM
Government are therefore willingly complicit in this unfolding
disaster, a fact which will not go unnoticed or unchallenged. I am
aware the Bank has provided the club with day-to-day banking services
for many years long predating the arrival of Hicks and Gillett, and I
only hope that this long-term relationship engenders a mutual desire
to see financial stability and success.

Fortunately, there is still an opportunity to halt this seemingly
inexorable decline. This can be achieved by withdrawing any existing
agreement to extend the loan effective immediately, essentially
foreclosing on the loan to Hicks and Gillett (as Kop Football Ltd)
secured against the club. Informal short-term administration by any
other name, would I assure you be welcomed by all Liverpool fans, if
it ensured the removal of the current owners. This action would then
allow Martin Broughton to facilitate the sale of the club quickly
(there remains many interested buyers out there at a realistic market
price, as Barclays Capital will attest) under your mandate without
veto or negative interference from Hicks.

By doing so, you will be sending out a strong and positive message
about supporting UK interests, corporate prudence and cleaning up
financial mismanagement, a message that all addressed recipients of
this letter, both at the RBS and the new Coalition Government, would
surely benefit from given their own past events and the current
financial climate. I'll sign off with an unfortunate but apt analogy
using another Liverpool-related world famous entity. This is a last
chance to steer a footballing Titanic hard to starboard to avoid a
looming and malevolent iceberg and towards a bright and prosperous
future. Actively ensuring the ship keeps to its current course,
however, is not an appropriate action and history will judge the RBS
accordingly.

I implore you on behalf of fellow Liverpool stakeholders, please act
now in the best interests of the club and indeed yourselves.

Yours faithfully,

(name withheld)
Former shareholder of Liverpool FC=
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Here's the reply people have been recieving. It's a standard form letter, but don't under estimate that.
I have it from a very reliable source, that this little campaign of our's is getting taken very seriously. But don't just take it from me. Read some of the posts in here. You can see for yourself, that things are beginning to happen. So we can't stop now.

If you're going to reply to the replies, address it to Roger Lowry, Head of Public Affairs, and write anything you want. I could get a template to put up in here, but I think individual and unique letters carry much more weight, and will get a better response. And let's face it, there's so much shit that we can sling at these bastards in our boardroom, it's not as if we're short of ammo.

So, anyway, here's the reply. Tell them it just doesn't wash and get as many other people as you can to do the same thing. They're wobbling, one really big heave and they might start to topple.
 

Thank you for contacting RBS concerning our ongoing relationship with Liverpool Football Club.
You will have seen the press release from Liverpool Football Club, announcing the appointment of a new, independent Chairman, Martin Broughton, and details of the formal sales process launched by the current owners, Thomas Hicks and George Gillett Jr. This process needs to be allowed sufficient time to maximise the chances of the Club being sold to ownership capable of realising its long term potential. However, we are confident that the Chairman and the Board will be mindful of the need to avoid any unnecessary delay in concluding a sale, as it is in no one’s interest to risk deterioration in the performance of the Club prior to it being sold.
Our common goal is the long-term success of Liverpool Football Club and the Bank’s primary objective is to ensure financial stability, so that the Club can continue to perform both on and off the football pitch.
There is little more I can add at this juncture, only to reiterate we are supportive of the steps that have been taken and we hope to have the opportunity to continue our financial support for the Club under its new ownership, once determined.
Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to write to us. I appreciate that the Club’s finances have been a source of frustration for many supporters but it is in the interest of the fans, the Club and the Bank that we continue to support it through this process to ensure its longevity for all concerned.
Yours sincerely,

Roger Lowry
Head of Public Affairs
Royal Bank of Scotland Group
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline GaryM

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 746
  • Nunca Caminarás Solo.
I've taken to printing off copies for my friends and giving it to them so the all the lazy bastards have to do is sign the thing.

What the fuck is wrong with people?  There are a lot of people who better not dare call themselves Liverpool supporters to me again.
"There's not one club in Europe with an anthem like You'll Never Walk Alone. There's not one club in the world so united with the fans. I sat there watching the Liverpool fans and they sent shivers down my spine. A mass of 40,000 people became one force behind their team ... For that I admire Liverpool more than anything" Johan Cryuff

Offline hiphopdj

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,056
Hi All,

Got this response from

Robert.Gardikiotis@Culture.gsi.gov.uk


Dear Mr Q
 
 
We understand why fans are becoming increasingly concerned at the level of debt accumulated at some clubs, and we have raised this as a keen concern of ours with the football authorities whose responsibility it is to run the game.


It is not for the Government to regulate football, or to comment on the specific financial situation of any one football club – that is down to the football authorities, and for the clubs themselves to manage their finances correctly.


However, the Government will encourage The Football Association, Premier League, and Football League to work closely together to improve the governance and regulation of the national game. We have said we are keen to see action in four areas: financial transparency, the relation of debt to turnover, the fit and proper person test for club owners and more independent governance on the FA board.
 
UK Financial Investments Limited (UKFI) has been set up to manage the Government’s investments in financial institutions, including RBS, as an active and engaged shareholder, operating on a commercial basis and at arm’s length from Government.
 
The framework document between HM Treasury and UKFI sets a requirement that UKFI will not intervene in the day-to-day management decisions of RBS. The bank is retaining its own independent board, which will manage the bank and determine its strategy. UKFI’s overarching objective is to protect and create value for the taxpayer as shareholder with regards to the maintenance of financial stability and to act in a way that promotes competition.
 
In this context, HM Treasury and UK Financial Investments do not have a role in advising on the personal or corporate financial arrangements of Liverpool Football Club and do not comment on the individual products or commercial decisions of RBS.
 
 
Yours sincerely
 
Robert Gardikiotis
Department for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport
Public Engagement and Recognition Unit
For those of you watching in blue and white this is what a european cup looks like.

Offline No666

  • Married to Macca.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,769
We need to get those stickers done, start attacking their logo/image publicly - embarrassing them to a wider audience than LFC supporters.

On that thought and considering the power of reputation - those we know who are not LFC supporters - we can influence them simply by saying we've closed our accounts with RBS and know many others who are doing the same for very good reasons. All perfectly true. We don't have to mention LFC. If baseless bluenose rumours about Gerrard can spread with the speed of wildfire, let's use the same technique against our enemies.

Offline hiphopdj

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,056
Was in a meeting today and something came up that got me thinking.

It takes year's to build up a reputation but it can all be destroyed in a matter of minutes no matter of their financial might. Most people will go of their reputations of the company before considering financial strength.

The example was BP their reputation and been destroyed after the gulf of Mexico oil spill.

If we can tarnish the reputations of Carlsberg, Adidas, Standard Chartered & RBS hopefully they will put enough pressure on G&H to sell at a reasonable price.

Just a quick thought
For those of you watching in blue and white this is what a european cup looks like.

Offline -HH-

  • 'cocky bastard'?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,405
  • Never forget the Hillsborough victims
    • Footy fans
Was in a meeting today and something came up that got me thinking.

It takes year's to build up a reputation but it can all be destroyed in a matter of minutes no matter of their financial might. Most people will go of their reputations of the company before considering financial strength.

The example was BP their reputation and been destroyed after the gulf of Mexico oil spill.

If we can tarnish the reputations of Carlsberg, Adidas, Standard Chartered & RBS hopefully they will put enough pressure on G&H to sell at a reasonable price.

Just a quick thought

It's good to see people thinking of ideas and I don't want to discourage you but I think there's a massive difference between tarnishing someone's reputation and putting pressure on them. That's even assuming we could tarnish their reputation even if we wanted to - it's hard enough getting yourself listened to.

I'd argue that either way it would be counter-productive. We don't want to get sponsors off side for the sake of it. They can't make the owners sell. As for RBS, I really think we're much better off keeping the pressure up with letters and emails than actually going all out to tarnish their reputation.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline Bamba

  • La?
  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
The letter campaign DEFINITELY has RBS wobbling and more power to Fat Scouser and all the rest of you who've been on this full time. But, but, but....they won't cave in unless and until we start pulling the rug on their bottom line: and that, my friends, is cashflow. Even if it's just a targeted, short-term campaign of mischief - pickets outside RBS branches, petty vanadalism (stickers/chewing gum) on cash machines, default on credit card payments and loans, closing down bank accounts - it all adds to the cumulative effect of making the bank think; "Know what? For £237million we can do without all this. Let's bail.."

And they WILL pull the plug. At this end, I'm talking to one of the weightier national newspapers about how we can co-ordinate something meaningful and powerful in time for July 4th. In the meantime, keep piling the pressure on the RBS - and Barlcays, for that matter. And FS, you heroic fella, keep doing what you've been doing my chubby comrade. Keep on rattling everyones cages and prodding all these sleeping dogs until everyone can look themselves in the eye and say: "I did something to help save my club..."

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Hi All,

Got this response from

Robert.Gardikiotis@Culture.gsi.gov.uk


Dear Mr Q
 
 
We understand why fans are becoming increasingly concerned at the level of debt accumulated at some clubs, and we have raised this as a keen concern of ours with the football authorities whose responsibility it is to run the game.


It is not for the Government to regulate football, or to comment on the specific financial situation of any one football club – that is down to the football authorities, and for the clubs themselves to manage their finances correctly.


However, the Government will encourage The Football Association, Premier League, and Football League to work closely together to improve the governance and regulation of the national game. We have said we are keen to see action in four areas: financial transparency, the relation of debt to turnover, the fit and proper person test for club owners and more independent governance on the FA board.
 
UK Financial Investments Limited (UKFI) has been set up to manage the Government’s investments in financial institutions, including RBS, as an active and engaged shareholder, operating on a commercial basis and at arm’s length from Government.
 
The framework document between HM Treasury and UKFI sets a requirement that UKFI will not intervene in the day-to-day management decisions of RBS. The bank is retaining its own independent board, which will manage the bank and determine its strategy. UKFI’s overarching objective is to protect and create value for the taxpayer as shareholder with regards to the maintenance of financial stability and to act in a way that promotes competition.
 
In this context, HM Treasury and UK Financial Investments do not have a role in advising on the personal or corporate financial arrangements of Liverpool Football Club and do not comment on the individual products or commercial decisions of RBS.
 
 
Yours sincerely
 
Robert Gardikiotis
Department for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport
Public Engagement and Recognition Unit

You see that?
Well to me it's all spagehetti, tied in a knot and hidden in an aul woman's knitting bag, in the back of the transistor radio... a load of gobbeldeduk specifically written to answer us but designed to shut us up...
Bollacks to that.

When you get something like this, just answer their answers with more questions....

"We understand why fans are becoming increasingly concerned at the level of debt accumulated at some clubs, and we have raised this as a keen concern of ours with the football authorities whose responsibility it is to run the game."

Great. Thank you.
 

"It is not for the Government to regulate football, or to comment on the specific financial situation of any one football club – that is down to the football authorities, and for the clubs themselves to manage their finances correctly."

But I'm sorry, I beg to differ... ultimatelly it is the Government's responsibilty to regulate football. Obviously, the clubs cannot be trusted to manage their own finances correctly or two of the most major clubs, in what is now a global industry and major British export, such as Manchester United and Liverpool FC wouldn't be verging on the brink of financial collapse.

FFS don't argue the symantics of that. I'm half bladdered and talking shite, but still making a point...

Don't be fobbed off. Answer the answers with more questions. Keep on them. They're already starting to buckle and, somewhere along the line, something or someone will cave in.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 02:17:18 am by FAT SCOUSER »
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Red_Isle_Chap

  • Hairy Fool
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,577
  • Blimey!
Another letter to RBs is winging it's way from me on the back of the replies that everyone else seems to be getting.

Get on it people, get at them, at the sponsors, at everyone. Let's push all the bullies back and then kick them in the nuts!!
And when you find yourself along the untrodden path
Remember me with a smile, a drink, a gesture or a laugh
And a toast for the man who loves every hour of every day
And a feast for the friends and faces met along way
Gratitude

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Another letter to RBs is winging it's way from me on the back of the replies that everyone else seems to be getting.

Get on it people, get at them, at the sponsors, at everyone. Let's push all the bullies back and then kick them in the nuts!!
At the end of the day, that's all it is mate....
We keep harrasing them.

There's no magic formula. Good knowledgable people can put us on the right track and give us pointers, but the fact is.... like any battle, it's us, the footsoldiers that get the results, and we get them by not giving in.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Red_Isle_Chap

  • Hairy Fool
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,577
  • Blimey!
At the end of the day, that's all it is mate....
We keep harrasing them.

There's no magic formula. Good knowledgable people can put us on the right track and give us pointers, but the fact is.... like any battle, it's us, the footsoldiers that get the results, and we get them by not giving in.
Fucking right FS, as always. Time to do the rounds in the other threads again I think.
And when you find yourself along the untrodden path
Remember me with a smile, a drink, a gesture or a laugh
And a toast for the man who loves every hour of every day
And a feast for the friends and faces met along way
Gratitude

Offline Mother.F

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,436
I've had quite a few email responses, but I've not had any through the post.


Another letter will be making it's way to each of them in the morning.

Offline GaryM

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 746
  • Nunca Caminarás Solo.


Don't be fobbed off. Answer the answers with more questions. Keep on them. They're already starting to buckle and, somewhere along the line, something or someone will cave in.

Exactly, if nothing else they will give in just to shut us up.
"There's not one club in Europe with an anthem like You'll Never Walk Alone. There's not one club in the world so united with the fans. I sat there watching the Liverpool fans and they sent shivers down my spine. A mass of 40,000 people became one force behind their team ... For that I admire Liverpool more than anything" Johan Cryuff

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Well, I'm going to take me dog for a walk down the river, via the alehouse. So, bumpety bump, bump... you know the script - get on it.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Davvo7

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,066
  • STILL walk a million miles for one of your smiles!
Just posted mine. Tried a different tack this time, "I'm not an RBS account holder at present, but will certainly open one if you deal with the situation in a decisive and positive manner. Forclose on the debt and you stand to gain far more than you lose." Not sure they will be arsed about my overdraft, but worth a try I suppose. Hope you enjoy your pint FS, you've earned it matey!
Boocoo dinky dau

Offline SpionBob

  • I have a signed Kenny Dalglish shirt on my wall-is that a bit gay?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,680
  • WITH JURGEN kLOPP WE WON IT 6 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Public enemy number one: On the RAWK watch list for offering alternative views, supporting Rafa and abusing ill informed WUMS with dubious agendas. Where's the crime in that? Victim of self-important mod with itchy finger.

Offline JetmirLFC

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Rafael Benitez
Just saw this:


HICKS & GILLETTE LOWER THEIR ASKING PRICE

It appears that hated American owners of Liverpool, Hicks & Gillette have lowered their asking price down to £560 million due to pressure from RBS (finally) and Watchovia, the two banks they are in hock to.
The despised duo are apparently in talks with a middle east consortium to buy the club at a far more realistic price.
This will please every Liverpool fan, if it turns out to be true.
It also seems likely that the prospective new owners wish to install Guus Hiddink as the new Liverpool boss, although he is contracted to manage the Turkish national side and may be hard to get.
He would be an ideal candidate for the job at Liverpool.
More news to follow.


http://www.friendsofliverpool.com/2010/06/hicks-gillette-lower-their-asking-price.html

Personally don't know what to think as I don't know the credibility of the source ???
"I can guarantee one thing – I will not sell my house. It is our home and we will come back. I don't know when but we will come back for sure." - Rafael Benitez on 24.06.2010

Offline SpionBob

  • I have a signed Kenny Dalglish shirt on my wall-is that a bit gay?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,680
  • WITH JURGEN kLOPP WE WON IT 6 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope its true but I'll only believe it when the BBC report it as a fact.
Public enemy number one: On the RAWK watch list for offering alternative views, supporting Rafa and abusing ill informed WUMS with dubious agendas. Where's the crime in that? Victim of self-important mod with itchy finger.

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Just saw this:


HICKS & GILLETTE LOWER THEIR ASKING PRICE

It appears that hated American owners of Liverpool, Hicks & Gillette have lowered their asking price down to £560 million due to pressure from RBS (finally) and Watchovia, the two banks they are in hock to.
The despised duo are apparently in talks with a middle east consortium to buy the club at a far more realistic price.
This will please every Liverpool fan, if it turns out to be true.
It also seems likely that the prospective new owners wish to install Guus Hiddink as the new Liverpool boss, although he is contracted to manage the Turkish national side and may be hard to get.
He would be an ideal candidate for the job at Liverpool.
More news to follow.


http://www.friendsofliverpool.com/2010/06/hicks-gillette-lower-their-asking-price.html

Personally don't know what to think as I don't know the credibility of the source ???
Nice one for posting mate. But there's a million of these rumours floating around. And to be honest, if H&G told me the time, I'd check me watch at least 3 times.. twice to see they was telling the truth, and once to see if they'd stole it.

So my advice tak no notice and press on with the fight... send the letters, question the replies and get everyone you can to do the same.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline JetmirLFC

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Rafael Benitez
Nice one for posting mate. But there's a million of these rumours floating around. And to be honest, if H&G told me the time, I'd check me watch at least 3 times.. twice to see they was telling the truth, and once to see if they'd stole it.

So my advice tak no notice and press on with the fight... send the letters, question the replies and get everyone you can to do the same.

You're right mate. But it's interesting to see the updated version of this story as the bottom line says 'more to follow'
"I can guarantee one thing – I will not sell my house. It is our home and we will come back. I don't know when but we will come back for sure." - Rafael Benitez on 24.06.2010

Offline Ingumsky

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 402
    • Russian-speaking Liverpool supporters
Re-post from Purslow: No credibility thread...

>>> I'm sure we should get rid of Purslow. Now. The knife he has put in Rafa's back was the only thing he _really_ did by the moment. Rafa has gone for Champions of Europe and we took some dozens steps backward because in Rafa we had top-manager who loved Liverpool in place but now we haven't. Was it the very same job Purslow had been hired for? I don't know but it was he and his employers who turned Liverpool Football Club into the "sinking ship" literally. <<<
We've been hesitant for so long that we missed the moment those morons won the war. We had to defend our beloved club with the same passion and pride we supported it but we didn't. Now it's not our title claims but the very existence of this club as a major force that's under the serious threat. We have to fight back. We have to make it happen. We should get rid of those c*nts and save Liverpool FC by whatever means necessary.
Wild rover, Irish rover

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
I've took me dog for a walk, went the alehouse, came home, had me tea, drank a few cans and a few ports, watched a bit of Glastonbury on the telly, now I'm off to bed... H&G must be shitting bricks.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline John C

  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,272
I've took me dog for a walk, went the alehouse, came home, had me tea, drank a few cans and a few ports, watched a bit of Glastonbury on the telly, now I'm off to bed... H&G must be shitting bricks.
Fucking hell FS, that's not the image we want of you, unless you meant the equivalent of a few ports of lager.

Offline -HH-

  • 'cocky bastard'?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,405
  • Never forget the Hillsborough victims
    • Footy fans
Just saw this:


HICKS & GILLETTE LOWER THEIR ASKING PRICE

It appears that hated American owners of Liverpool, Hicks & Gillette have lowered their asking price down to £560 million due to pressure from RBS (finally) and Watchovia, the two banks they are in hock to.
The despised duo are apparently in talks with a middle east consortium to buy the club at a far more realistic price.
This will please every Liverpool fan, if it turns out to be true.
It also seems likely that the prospective new owners wish to install Guus Hiddink as the new Liverpool boss, although he is contracted to manage the Turkish national side and may be hard to get.
He would be an ideal candidate for the job at Liverpool.
More news to follow.


http://www.friendsofliverpool.com/2010/06/hicks-gillette-lower-their-asking-price.html

Personally don't know what to think as I don't know the credibility of the source ???

Sounds like bollocks to me, simply on the basis they call £560 million a 'much more realistic' asking price. Wooo, they've lopped £40 million off the asking price, let's all do a dance. Even if it's true, they need to drop it by more. £400 million would be much more realistic. The owners would come out with £25 million profit each and they'd be fucking lucky to get even that.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Fucking hell FS, that's not the image we want of you, unless you meant the equivalent of a few ports of lager.
Oh any Port in a storm me John... you should try it mate. Lecky Vimto... fucking lovely and a bit kinder on us aul fat fellas than the vodka. Mind you, if we don't get shut of these bastards soon, it could be a bag of brown and a crack pipe.
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline electricghost

  • Might haunt your wiring, but will usually stop if requested to. Lives in a spirit house in Pra Kanong.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,684
That story originates from the Daily Mail.
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

Offline JetmirLFC

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Rafael Benitez
That story originates from the Daily Mail.

No it doesn't.

Actually i wrote a comment on that story and the one who wrote that replied to me.


here's the bit:

 Anonymous said... (ME):
So according to the bottom line there's definitely more to this story and it's just a matter of time till you get it and more importantly you WILL definitely get it, is that correct?


Paul said...
Paul Liverpool,
I can confirm this rumour has been txt to me from a reliably informed person close to Liverpool football club.
The txt actually reads "Liverpool football club has been sold for £560 million to a member of the Abu Dhabi family and the deal will be formally announced on July 15th 2010". I have also been informed that no managerial appointment will be made prior to this announcement and the names currently linked are smoke screens.
I personally hope this is true.
Paul
"I can guarantee one thing – I will not sell my house. It is our home and we will come back. I don't know when but we will come back for sure." - Rafael Benitez on 24.06.2010

Online Hazell

  • Ultimate Movie Night Draft Winner 2017. King - or Queen - of Mystery. Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex conch.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,897
There have been rumours circulating about that. Don't believe it until it happens.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline JetmirLFC

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Rafael Benitez
There have been rumours circulating about that. Don't believe it until it happens.

same with me. Roll on 15th of July (not that my hopes are high tho)
"I can guarantee one thing – I will not sell my house. It is our home and we will come back. I don't know when but we will come back for sure." - Rafael Benitez on 24.06.2010

Offline GaryM

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 746
  • Nunca Caminarás Solo.
Just saw this:


HICKS & GILLETTE LOWER THEIR ASKING PRICE

It appears that hated American owners of Liverpool, Hicks & Gillette have lowered their asking price down to £560 million due to pressure from RBS (finally) and Watchovia, the two banks they are in hock to.
The despised duo are apparently in talks with a middle east consortium to buy the club at a far more realistic price.
This will please every Liverpool fan, if it turns out to be true.
It also seems likely that the prospective new owners wish to install Guus Hiddink as the new Liverpool boss, although he is contracted to manage the Turkish national side and may be hard to get.
He would be an ideal candidate for the job at Liverpool.
More news to follow.


http://www.friendsofliverpool.com/2010/06/hicks-gillette-lower-their-asking-price.html

Personally don't know what to think as I don't know the credibility of the source ???

I won't be pleased until the tumours are gone.
"There's not one club in Europe with an anthem like You'll Never Walk Alone. There's not one club in the world so united with the fans. I sat there watching the Liverpool fans and they sent shivers down my spine. A mass of 40,000 people became one force behind their team ... For that I admire Liverpool more than anything" Johan Cryuff

Offline No666

  • Married to Macca.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,769
The rumour has been going round for weeks/days; some say it has been circulated to take the sting from our anger and to drain our protests. So ignore it and keep the pressure up, lads.

Offline Walk on, walk on

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,255
  • You'll never walk alone.
same with me. Roll on 15th of July (not that my hopes are high tho)

I won't get my hopes up. Some of the "ITKs" are now saying that the "announcement date" has been "pushed back" a further 2 weeks. Don't you see, this rumour-mongering has been going on for 2 years.

All a smokescreen to douse the anger for our 4th July event.
Liverpool don't turn up against shit teams so Wenger picks the shittest line up possible.
The man is a genius!

Offline Red_Isle_Chap

  • Hairy Fool
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,577
  • Blimey!

All a smokescreen to douse the anger for our 4th July event.
This is the only way anyone should view any news regarding our ownership until the day actually arrives that it's been confirmed by the club themselves that the tumours have finally gone.
And when you find yourself along the untrodden path
Remember me with a smile, a drink, a gesture or a laugh
And a toast for the man who loves every hour of every day
And a feast for the friends and faces met along way
Gratitude

Offline Walk on, walk on

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,255
  • You'll never walk alone.
This is the only way anyone should view any news regarding our ownership until the day actually arrives that it's been confirmed by the club themselves that the tumours have finally gone.

Amen.
Liverpool don't turn up against shit teams so Wenger picks the shittest line up possible.
The man is a genius!

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
There's no point being sidetracked by baseless, sourceless rumours.

Let's just act on what we know....
And the only thing we should be doing right now is sending letters to RBS, questioning the appointment and actual job being done by Purslow.

That doesn't mean giving up on Broughton, include him in any letters you send, but make sure to target Purslow this time round.

It's another little chink in their armour.... let's go for it.

I don't want to put up a template. Individual letters will carry more weight. We've got the proof they're getting through. We've got the replies to quiz, and Purslow's lawyers trying to gag use as ammo.

If we all do only one thing these work, let's have a go at this and try to get everyone else we can to do it.

It's Monday morning... brand new start. We can just give in now. Let's all do as much as possible, but make sure we get that done at the very least.

It's a few letters, and a few emails.... not much to do to try and save our club.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 08:37:21 am by FAT SCOUSER »
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Done this to all 3 threads now, tidied up and easy to get at the needed information. These are the people we need to go after at RBS....

John Hourican
Chief Executive, Global Banking and Markets
RBS
36 St Andrew Square
Edinburgh
EH2 2YB


Distribution list:
cc. Suneel Kamlani, GBM
cc. Marco Mazzucchelli, GBM
cc. Alan Dickinson, UK Corporate
cc. Mark Catton, UK Corporate
cc. Roger Lowry, Head of Public Affairs
cc. Dr Vince Cable, Secretary of State BIS (1 Victoria Street London
SW1H 0ET)
cc. Jeremy C*nt, Secretary of State, Sport (2-4 Cockspur Street London
SW1Y 5DH)
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/

Offline Fat Scouser

  • Trolley Dolly with a 54 2/3 inch waist - last seen shopping on Scottie Road for speedos. Is just a bit.....you know.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,906
Here's the reply from them...


Thank you for contacting RBS concerning our ongoing relationship with Liverpool Football Club.

You will have seen the press release from Liverpool Football Club, announcing the appointment of a new, independent Chairman, Martin Broughton, and details of the formal sales process launched by the current owners, Thomas Hicks and George Gillett Jr. This process needs to be allowed sufficient time to maximise the chances of the Club being sold to ownership capable of realising its long term potential. However, we are confident that the Chairman and the Board will be mindful of the need to avoid any unnecessary delay in concluding a sale, as it is in no one’s interest to risk deterioration in the performance of the Club prior to it being sold.

Our common goal is the long-term success of Liverpool Football Club and the Bank’s primary objective is to ensure financial stability, so that the Club can continue to perform both on and off the football pitch.

There is little more I can add at this juncture, only to reiterate we are supportive of the steps that have been taken and we hope to have the opportunity to continue our financial support for the Club under its new ownership, once determined.

Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to write to us. I appreciate that the Club’s finances have been a source of frustration for many supporters but it is in the interest of the fans, the Club and the Bank that we continue to support it through this process to ensure its longevity for all concerned.

Yours sincerely,

Roger Lowry
Head of Public Affairs
Royal Bank of Scotland Group
"A peasant you are. A peasant you will remain. And we shall use all our wealth and power, to make your lot even worse and keep you exactly where you are, Bondage!"    The Boy King, Richard II, after  putting down the The Peasants Revolt in 1381.

http://misterinobody.weebly.com/