Hey Nando.You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, and I understand that, I really do. The deranged and needless nature with which Liverpool Football Club dismantled Rafa's Rojas will forever be a black mark on our history. One ludicrous decision by a man who never should have had the power to fire the third winningest manager in our history - indeed, one who amassed *the* most impressive collection of European scalps in our history bar none - and you, Rafa, and others would probably still be here, looking forward to playing Champions League football after only a short one-year hiatus, backed by owners with deep pockets and something to prove. You're likely taking potshots at the same folks we look upon with disdain as the reasons behind the tearing up and the subsequent burial of the Spanish proving grounds of the north - the former owners, Purslow, and Hodgson - who ended up overseeing an exodus of talented Latins just as Spain doubled up the European and World Cups. In hindsight, it was a pathetic bet. As Spanish football broke out, as the footballing nation that produced Rafa, Nando, Alonso, Arbeloa, and Reina furthered their assault on the peak of world football, Liverpool Football Club instead chose to bet on Hodgson, Cole, Konchesky, and Poulsen. It was ludicrous. And I personally still appreciate what you've done for us. Back when you were blonde, you scared the living hell out of our opponents. What you did to Vidic time and again makes me grin with giddy joy. You didn't leave until after Roy turned us into relegation fodder. Your sale gave us 15m plus a 22 year old beast, or alternatively, 28m plus a 23 year old legend to be. You're also a one hundred million quid anchor around the neck of Chelsea Football Club. Thanks. I mean that. But it's quite obvious that something is getting lost in the translation. Each time you open your mouth, we are dismayed by what emerges. What is delivered through the press is likely not what you mean, I'll give you that. No sane person really thinks that you're disparaging the fans of Liverpool Football Club - without a shadow of a doubt, the greatest supporters on the planet if not the universe - but you need to pay attention and tone it down. In fact, you likely need to stitch your lips together and fire your PR person, not necessarily in that order. There are legends who have left Liverpool Football Club in the past under dire circumstances, but have retained their status. Some have returned under different circumstances to enjoy success and adulation. One legend, who had his project prematurely neutered by a banker and two thieves, shall return one day, djes. That return will be unlike anything you can imagine.You, on the other hand, seem hell-bent on ensuring that never happens. It's alright to blame Cecil Purslow; I do. The former owners carry much of the blame - you're welcome to give an interview in some Spanish rag about how those two fucking cancers almost wrecked us. Go ahead. We'd respect you for it. And you can even tell us about how Hodgson broke whatever will you had to stay here. But you're not doing any of that, and you're certainly not going about it like Rafa is, with dignity and class.Furthermore, you weren't even dealt that bad a hand, at age 27, with the world at your feet, earning a million quid plus a month, and likely hiding it from the taxman in an economy that's going down the tubes. You certainly didn't leave like Kenny Dalglish, crushed under the weight of 96 funerals and the fallout that followed. You didn't leave like Robbie Fowler, visibly shocked and dismayed at the reality of playing for a club outside his city. You didn't leave like Sami Hyypia, a stoic Viking reduced to tears of frustrated rage that Number Nineteen was not to be his testimonial at home. And you certainly didn't leave like Rafa Benitez, pushed out by some banker who was anonymous before - and likely after - he almost wrecked Liverpool Football Club.They held their heads up high, Nando. You, son, seem to be afraid of the dark.
Hmmmm, now... How to post from another thread?El C with an enlightened and delightful message to our former number 9.
Only a few moments remaining until Goku arrives.Next week:Goku is almost there, can he stop the ginyu force? Next week:Goku is about to arrive, is he up to the challenge?
If we are playing with a Carroll type player upfront,it is imperative to have proper wingers who cross the ball,who can stretch the play,which will ultimately give people like Suarez more space to operate with.
No it isn't. With a player like Carroll in the team it's imperative, IMO, that we resist the temptation to turn ourselves into Spurs. Look at how the youth and reserves side play. Look at Barca, or Real or any number of teams. Touchline hugging wingers don't make space...they limit it. They are ineffective in central areas, limiting the potential for through balls, limiting the potential for pressure through possession (that's part of the reason why Spurs don't even attempt to build patiently or keep hold of the ball, and are pretty much incapable of holding possession under pressure, a massive problem in British football in general). Wingers who don't cut inside make it harder for central players, and occupy the space that good attacking full backs drive into. Even with a player like Bale crossing to someone like Carroll it's still a low percentage play. Limited sides like Stoke and Fulham have CBs who can deal with those kind of tactics all day every day, because it's meat and drink to just about any team who gets promoted from the championship and competes well against the many other sides who try to play like that in the prem.There is no reason whatsoever why width in that sense can't come primarily from full backs, and in Johnson we already have one of the best of those around. Ideally we would have wide players who can do a bit of both, that's what we should be aiming for, but going for touchline huggers would be a massive step backwards.It would also be a sure fire way of totally divorcing our first team tactics from those of the best set of youth players we have had in our entire history. We would be utterly wasting all those talents if we expected them to adapt to a wingers, get it crossed in type formation after what they've been playing. It would be a total waste of the talents of someone like Sterling.It's great to have players who can do both, who can give that option, but crossing as a main tactic has fallen out of use for good reasons. Sacrificing our potential for a really effective possession based game just to get the supposed best out of Andy Carroll is a very, very stupid way to go IMO. It also begs the question of just what we then do when Carroll's injured? Yeah, maybe he is so huge that we could just about make it work with him, if he's fit all the time, but he's pretty much one of a kind. What Carroll gives us is an amazing option, and the potential for real variety, and a massive threat from set pieces. He shouldn't be the 'tactic' we build our team around, the key word there being team.
I don't know why I'm bothering me arse. I've got better things to do, but here we go...What some people don't seem to understand, is it's not just a question of whether Rafa done this, that or the other. The man's record stands for itself. Against all odds, at a club living in the past, ran by morons and eventually in absolute turmoil, with the English gutter press propaganda machine in full swing against him, and with the mafia of the LMA gunning for him, Rafa not only brought us success he dragged the club into the present. We should all know what Le Ged had done at the academy, but the fact is Rafa transformed it from an old boy's club into what we have now... and it will still be a few seasons before we know the full effect of his work, but hopefully he's built a modern day conveyor belt for the best of young talent in the game. A couple of star players is all it will take to justify and prove everything he done at youth level. But even if the coaches he appointed, the methods he introduced, and the young talent he brought in, and hopefully we continue to bring in, just make the club a few quid when sold on it's still a huge success compared to what we had. And, despite the billions he's said to have wasted on thousands of duff players, we will make money from the academy. And let's not forget how much dough we wasted on transfers in and out before Rafa arrived. We leaked money like a sieve on player sales until Rafa put an end to that. It was his wheeling and dealing, that turned us back into a club that sells players on at a profit and used the money to upgraded the first team and squad. And he had to fight the other pair of pricks tooth and claw to do that. We'd have seen fuck all of that money if it wasn't for him.But of course he made some mistakes in the market. Who fucking doesn't. I'd love to see the track records of the infallible ones who constantly criticise the man's mistakes, make mountains out of his molehills, and refuse to give him credit for what he did right. But anyway, on top of revamping the youth set up, he also updated the scouting regime and methods. He also updated the nutrition and training methods and dragged the medical staff into the 21st century...One of the most disgraceful strokes I seen the media pull was a story saying how the savage heartless Benitez sacked the man who saved Gerrard Houllier's life after the heart attack. They forgot to mention old Doc Waller was about 906 years old, about to retire and was being replaced by a sports doctor who was wanted by just about every top sporting "franchise" on the planet.And that is the thing that gets me, some of our own being happy to accept shite like that and even use it against Rafa. I know there's no turning back the clock, but imagine what would have happened if they'd tried this shit in Shanks's trophyless years. We'd have surrounded Anfield in our thousands and murdered anyone who as much as looked sideways at the man. And that's why Liverpool was made for him, and he built the club into what it was. We had no right to become the monster we became. Fan base, city population, etc, we should have been on a par with Sheffield Wednesday. But Shankly seen us, and knew we were the people he could build a bastion of invincibility around. Rafa seen the same thing. He said it himself after Valencia whacked us.. "These people are different, no?" That's why he came here. That's what he fell in love with. That's why he worked to change the club back into what it had been, by keeping the traditions that made us great but dragging us into the modern day.His biggest mistake was probably winning the European Cup in his first season. The bandwagon jumpers would never be satisified with anything less again. It made me sick listening to them and seeing them join in the crusade against the man during his final season. But I expect no different from them type of people. When they were calling for his head on here, loads of us tried to warn them to be careful what they wished for - which was mainly Hodgson, as instructed by the propaganda machine. Some of us wasted our time trying to warn them to look at Hodgson's record instead of listening to the media bollacks. They ploughed on regardless, preferring a fella with one UEFA cup final and a League manager of the year award against the fella who'd gave them number 5 and the best football memory they'll probably ever have. And, needless to say the very same people were the first to start calling for old Hodge Podge's head after a couple of games. I was that sickened by what happened there, that I really worried about Kenny getting the job. Make no mistake, there's plenty of them going on about "The King" who would have turned on him if things had gone badly. I was really worried about that. I think I'd have been finished with LFC for good if that would have happened. But thankfully, they haven't had the chance and wouldn't dare now. But I don't doubt for a second that they would have, if things hadn't have worked out the way they have. But I really couldn't give a shit about people like that. What does my head in is, seeing people who should know better act like twats when it comes to Rafa. If were going to compete in this bollacks of a global entertainment industry that football has became, we need our 12th man. We haven't got the resources of the mega corporations or multi-billionaires play things, so we need everything we've got, including the loyalty and traditions that made us what we are. I'm not expecting the Kop to suddenly jump back 50, 40, 30, even 20 years. But if we finally loose what made it the most famous support in football, and become like Chelsea or Man U fans who don't give a fuck about nothing but tin pots, well, I think that would finally be it for the club, nevermind me.And I really don't know why I'm bothering typing all this shit out. But the thing is, RAWK is actually the most Rafa friendly site there is. Except for a few people who know no better and some knobs with agenda's, most people on here recognise what Rafa did for us and thank him for it. It's one of the reasons why I still come on here and don't bother with anywhere else on the internet. It's the same reason, I still go to games with fellas I've known for knocking on 50 years. It's not about Rafa. It's about LFC, and what we want the club to be. As league titles go, Man United will finally push us off our perch this week. It's hard to take, but here's the only consolation I can come up with... The fans of that club have never made a song up for the man who made that his mission and succeded in doing it by any means possible. And he might be a graceless horrible old bastard, but think about it... not one song have they ever made up for that old piss bag. Unbelievable.And that's why they'll never be as good as us as supporters, and are baffled by the way we are. They just cannot understand us, or why we stand by Rafa. In fact, they take the piss out of us for doing it. I don't give a toss about them. I'm sorry I even mentioned them. But I'm only using the Green and Gold you do as you're told mob, as an example. There's no difference in this than when a load of us arl arses tried to make people see what could happen if we let them push Rafa out the door and bring in the men they wanted. This is our club. If we want it to be truly great again, as well as pushing forward, we have to keep the traditions that made it great. United might have taken our title record but they've lost their soul in doing it. And I probably seem like some sentimental old fool to the johnny come latelys for talking like that, but I couldn't give a fuck about them. The day we all turn into them, is the day this club is finished.
Thing is, if you're going to have a massive beard then you simply MUST have a 'tache with it. Otherwise you just look like you've dipped your sticky chin in to a box of fannies.
I said this quite a bit during the H&G years a large part of professional sports is psychology to put it another way you are either a big club or you are not ; traditionally of course we have been a big club and we will be able to draw players here even without champions league because players who want to be 'big' want to be at a big club all players want to be at a big club - but part of the definition of 'bigness' in this context is the will and the ambition to win players have short careers, they want to win things, they want to know that the club they are at feels the same if you look at the team/ squad that rafa assembled they were no different - there were quite a few 'world class' players there - reina, alonso, masher (he was world-class once), gerrard, torres, players are criticised for being all about the money, but in a 20 year career players do actually want more than that - a team/squad that is only there for the wages will never, ever prosper, there has to be ambition, there has to be a vision, there has to be something there that equates with the essence of sport, and professional sport at that under rafa, in the H&G years the club, the players, everyone came to the sinking realisation that this club did not have ambition, didn't have vision, and didn't equate with the essence of sport; we were not here to win, we were here to exist, tick over and pay off the debt accumulated by those spawns of satan torres, reina, and the other players knew that this club at that time was going nowhere; profits were going to go to the banks, investment in the squad would not happen, medals would not be won, they would while away their best years playing at a club that no longer corresponded with the definition of a 'big club' they they thought that they were signing for the summer when xabi was sold was pivotal in pointing that out/ bringing that home to the squad - one of the best midfielders in the world was sold and the money was not reinvested (we sold about 50million that summer if I remember and bought aqua) - the message sent out to the players was clear - we were going nowhere the loss in the following season was not just the loss of alonso, it was the loss of ambition, hope, the light at the end of the tunnel amongst the playersrafa, who we all accept is not perhaps the best man-manager in the world could not turn around the resulting malaise from the sinking realisation amongst the players that they were not at the club that they had signed up for that was the season that torres began to turn into a bitching whining little moan who didn't like being tackled anymore that was the season we finished 7th - that was the season where the insipid corrosive effect of the H&G regime began to become apparent to the most sheep-like of fan the mentality of that season, which rafa could not overcome, and the personal battles and political rivalries that that effect led to, where rafa I believe did everything to fight for the club and the fans led to the 'mutual consent' "(c) Christian 'c*nt' Purslow, 2009" that saw rafa's departure and the signing of another nail in the 'we are going nowhere coffin', i.e. Roy '2 lines of 5' Hodgsonthe squad was dealt another psychological blow by the further confirmation that we were a club going nowhere, with no ambition here now we had signed a manager who was the walking embodiment of lack of ambition the malaise deepened, the pundits told us how bad the squad was...some of the fans started to believe them then new owners bought the club, fans danced in the streets outside the High Court but corrosive elements from the old regime remained - then Hodgson left, then Purslow left, then Kenny cameafter 1 - 2 - 2.5 seasons of malaise and corrosion the squad saw again the light at the end of the tunnel Kenny can take a lot of credit for 'turning it round' but the re-introduction into the club of actual ambition, of actual vision has a lot to do with it we are riding the crest of a wave and the effect is such that the momentum will carry into next season, the rebuilding needed is not as drastic as the media, and Hodgson, led us to believe - just bring back the ambition and hunger which is a necessary ingredient of proper, successful, professional sport and the squad looks a hell of lot better, to such an extent that we ourselves begin to question whether it needs such a massive overhaul after all lucas is good, maxi is on form, kuyt is revived, etc. etc. etc.the players we had, when you give them a bit of belief and a better working environment are not as bad as the media made out a few tweaks, a bit of deadwood got rid of we will be in very good shape next season, and we are not expecting a title next season, as the OP believes I think, but we are expecting to be in amongst itand anybody who doesn't expect us to be in amongst it next season is 'the only one' as suggested by the OP
my scouse corner shop pyramid conspiracy man’s plaything club Phoolan Devi FC got fearful salt an’ batter savagin’. Bic bad wolf Libpool FC is show “no merci” just like Cobra Kai Dough Joe demand from blonde karate snob kids. Yes, despise bein’ soul child friendly London sax club an’ hens call John Craven Cottagers, Canny Sahib order them be put “OUT OF COMMISSION!” an’ Libpool crack ninja squadre obey “SIR YES SIR!” an’ bust an’ raid the Phoolan’s backdoor like got plausible major tipped off from sum snout “you slags” WRIT SABU PUNDIT. Chief dirty cop an’ head kicker was toothy an’ increase beer-loved Shetland equine bitesman Mr Lewis Avarice an’ he had ‘em defence on grill Hovis awe night specially 9ft No Ouija santa back and grandson off Hollywood Mate Marion, the Bree De Havilland. Avarice such appetite him settle quicker than fly on doo doo ain’t it an’ this muss Shirley ogre well for the Caesar to come he is a jolly good. Like many inch deficient plays off Iniesta year, he difficult knock-off ball an’ have the ink triggered clothes control that lead get heathen more freed kick than ex Red and most favoured germ Hair Deirdre Hormone. He is grate fan off Gremlins on account borne in You-Mogwai an’ is already the indispensable gizmo in Libpool engine room with chillin’ proviso “Donut feed it après mitt night.” Avarice workrate is envy off Stakhanov an’ capacity mine for all manner metal ore is yet a nutter facet to his being that owner Mr Jaw Hendry muster toke Inter consideration at point of sale. This was truly remarkable gem for Rhetts an’ it was Swarfega because everythin’ was coming off an’ very damn quickly isn’t it? Shrunken horse head Mr MadXerox-Regis is doin’ a Lawd Jesus by returnin’ from stiffs an’ roll back the jeers an’ the stone an’ all wiv’ this sickened trilby- trick in three mad chicks, “he is spoilin’ us” like the Embarrassor’s reception an’ the Ferrari Rochelle. An’ Mr Dog Cow is nut so march inner reach vain off form as knockin’ off the mother’s load isn’t it? Like a Kink Miners in the ancient Geek Myth, Evra think he touches up is turning to goal. Libpool is havin’ a ray off terrifyin’ midget this day an’ rest of leak struggle cope their shore tars antics e.g fun size local yokel Mr Chase Perrin who is give up lucrative contract as Stewie Griffin in “Flamini Guy” to star in Canny team. He is deadliest baby sins Chuckey isn’t (not Morally MuraLutheran)? Recent discovery off boy wonder hideous Master Fannygun off the permanently open gobs is in gender colossal fear an’ this chinless child horror is poster boy for all banjo devotee already although faece stiff competition from Nosferatu Aloo Peas head Mr Gonzo Selfish: YOU BEEN BAD MA. The scouse must not Forget (not Guy) that this was Very Special Episode for Jammy CarrotGrower who chalky up the 666 mill stone around this permanently crimson buzzard neck. Sabu shod like congratulate esteem hoof and remind our lovable ex Sir Semi Hooper retard and Finnish this week at nearly 38 yeahs ode so the Mr Eon Caravan olde thyme wrecker is firmly within the grass like ancient crystallized doggy sheet in kid’s play grunt, near slide. Thanking you very muchSabu Pundit, Ass Choir
Apologies in advance for the self-indulgence you're about to suffer through...I’ve seen a number of attempts on these boards to make sense of FSG’s/Comolli’s/Kenny’s squad construction strategy, and many have brought up good points, but I’d like to share my thoughts on what they might be doing and why I think it makes a lot of sense. I’m a longtime Red Sox fan and have been following JWH and company for about 8 years, and while I cannot purport to know what they’re thinking, I do believe that they are smart people and have a clear strategy. Essentially, I think the strategy can be summed up in a few key headlines: (1) Transfer fees are assets, wages are expenses; (2) Per headline 1, buy young and don’t be afraid to buy big; and (3) English players are more valuable, even more so if you get a bunch of them. Let’s knock these out one at a time:Transfer fees are assets, wages are expenses: When we hear about transfer fees like £35 million for Carroll or £16 million for Henderson, we (understandably) get anxious. Isn’t this a massive outlay? Can FSG afford these fees? Well, if think of these outlays as assets or investments then yes, they probably can. Regardless of whether Carroll gets better or does worse than expected, it is highly likely that his rights will be worth something in the future and that FSG and, if it so chooses, exchange the asset that is Andy Carroll back for cash. Now, in the event that he gets better, Andy is like a bottle of wine and he appreciates over time with the club potentially earning a profit. If he is worse, then he’s not a bottle of wine but a car—a depreciating asset that the club will take a loss on when it’s time to “trade him in,” but not a total loss. Contrast this with wages. As many RAWK-ites have covered nicely, Milan Jovanovic did not cost a lot in transfer fees to bring to Anfield, but he makes >£100K in wages per week. That £100K is money down the drain. It is an expense. Regardless of what Jovanovic does or how well or poorly he plays, that is money that the club will never see again. Too often we obsess over transfer fees but pay such little attention to wages that all of a sudden the Guardian prints Jova’s salary and we’re all shocked because no one noticed. No wonder that JWH reportedly blew an artery when he inspected the wage bill. That is dead money.I would bet that FSG actually appreciate the transfer system—where straight cash is exchanged for the rights to players—because it makes the investment in a player much easier to plan and account for. In all major American sports, transfers come in the form of player for player trades, and these days the trades usually follow the form of Established player / Star for some number of promising, young, prospects on low wages. In fact, cash transfers are typically prohibited above a certain (low) threshold. Therefore, the value you’re giving up to obtain the star player is not some straight cash fee, it’s the initial signing fee for the prospects, the time you put into developing them, etc. Trading cash is so much cleaner, and I think FSG recognizes this and is very willing to pay big for assets.Per headline 1, buy young and don’t be afraid to buy big: Pretty simple stuff here, but if the club sees transfer fees as assets and prioritizes spending on transfers versus spending on wages, it follows that you want to buy players that have the most potential to (a) be appreciating assets, and (b) earn manageable wages. Young players that your scouts identify as having high potential are the type most likely to fulfill these criteria, and why you won’t see FSG splash the cash for players older than ~25-26. When you have players who are 20, like Henderson, or 22, like Carroll, and who most scouts believe are very good bets for success, you can justify spending high fees to pry them away from their clubs because the probability of recouping some of the fee (or even turn a profit) is quite high. Someone like Downing, who is at that borderline age, only makes sense under this policy if FSG assumes that other clubs across Europe will still be willing to place value on ~28-29 year old players (which is how old Downing would be when FSG might be looking to sell him). As long as managers like Harry Redknapp continue to exist, that will not be a problem. English players really are more valuable, especially if you get a bunch of them: I’ve seen a lot of anguish expressed in these forums over the fact that most of LFC’s reported targets are English. Again, this is very understandable. No one is under the illusion that English players are the best in the world, or that targets like Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing are as exciting as the likes of Juan Mata and Gervinho. It is also pretty clear that you have to pay a premium in the Premiership to get English players. No argument from me.There are, however, a number of advantages to stocking up on English talent—especially a core group of young English talent—even if there’s a premium. Here are a few:-It’s looking like FIFA may stipulate that 18-man squads include a minimum number of players of the league’s nationality. If this happens, then English players are necessary and thus good English players are truly more valuable to a premiership club than an equally good foreign player-English players speak a common language-English players may avoid some of the cultural adjustment problems that foreign players face-English players are probably more likely to want to stay in England long term-More importantly, English players will play together on national squads, so if you can get a bunch of good ones, the effect grows. Let’s spend some time here:Imagine if LFC had been successful in bringing in Jones, Wickham, and Henderson all at once. They would literally be playing together all year for perhaps the next 10 years between matches for LFC and England. Add Carroll, Spearing, Kelly, et al to this list and all of a sudden you have a core with an amazing shared understanding and the greatest level of cohesion of any squad in the league. Barcelona isn’t the best team in the world just because their players are exceptionally talented—they’re the best team in the world because they are talented and because they’ve played together since they were young lads and they’ve been on Spanish national sides together forever. Take all of these factors and it becomes clearer why FSG seems to be taking such large “risks” on young English players, and that it’s not really much of a risk at all. Assuming Comolli knows what he’s doing…
excellente posts from FS and somervilleRed
You know what you gonna get from the festively plump Scouser, no surprise there. On the other hand, SomervilleRed had only 11 posts when he popped up with that effort for RAWK. I thought it deserved a mention.
Abrak, thanks, some really enlightening contributions, I feel I understand a layer to Henry's thinking and plan behind how he thinks he can make this work in the modern game and stay up with if not ahead of the robber kings who run the game, and thanks to everyone else for a really interesting thread.I wanted to echo Vork and El C in their attempts to shine some light on the "Fears" about Commoli, so ably expressed by Al 555 and Xerxes. I write this you Al 555, though I think you have just put the fears best into words, and certainly not to criticise your excellent stirring of the thread.I think we are talking about two different "languages", one called heirarchy, one called collaboration. When I listen to your posts Al, there is an assumption that the world, and hence Liverpool fc, can only function as a heirarchy.....where one person is boss, who tells the next person what to do, who tells the next person what to do etc. etc. This is not the way John Henry operates, loud and clear. He sets up a collaborative model where the only "boss" is the mission, the goal, the purpose. Different people have different responsibilities to serve the mission, but they share a common goal to serve the mission, ....we usually use a different word than mission, we call it the club. So the health of the club is the mission, and John Henry, just as Kenny, just as Damien, all serve this mission. One of the reasons for using this model is that the heirarchical model is at its heart a fear based model, ( and fear sucks the life out of everything ), hence in part why you would correctly have fear of commoli in a heirarchical model, because, as Xerxes put it a while back, he would be "over" Kenny, and I like you would have my "concerns" about that to say the least. But that would fundamentally misunderstand that he is not "over" Kenny in this system, for this system is not fear based, but a collaboration, a round table, a boot room.....yes, Shankly clearly understood this, and in my opinion was his greatest gift to the club.....to be 30-40 years ahead of business management theory......and I believe that as supporters our relationship to the club totally connects to this.....we intuit this collaboration and of course feel our part in this collaboration. Look what happened when Hicks came along, heirarchical to the point of being fascist, and we immediately felt the disconnection. ( well those of us who were awake. ) Anyway, just saying, if you look at the management relationships of the club as a series of up/down heirarchies, you'll see fights for control, hidden undermining and general "devilish" behaviour......that's it's language........but if you can allow that these are all secure adults who put their ego aside for the greater goal ( the very definition of one King Kenny ), then the "fears" fall away and you can then not just hear but also believe their own words: Now if it all goes pear shaped and we end up relegated, fear and heirarchy will come frothing out of John Henry's mouth, but this model is always more successful at multiple levels .......co-operation is always more efficient than competition.... It's like how each of us support each other co-operatively within our own family ( at least in the ideal ), so that we can then represent ourself with assurance competitively in the wider world. At it's simplest, I would suggest the difference between Hodgson and Kenny was that Kenny got this inner model, in the sense that we all long to be connected to something bigger than ourselves so that we can self -forget the mountains of self doubt that are our curse as humans .....Hodgson was all about his own doubts and so as 'leader' he condemned everyone around him to suffer in the same inner place. The same players looked reborn after he left, freed from his unconscious burden.
When i think about where we were at as a football club this time last year, and where we ended up eight months ago, i cant help but breathe a little sigh of relief when i see where we are at now.Our future was bleak, our manager was Mike Basset like, our star striker was running down time till the transfer window, the previously world class midfield was gone and a couple of below average hoofers were the extent of our transfers inwards.Now look. Liverpool Football Club appears to be in the hands of astute and ambitious owners, our manager is a legend and a born winner, and we are making moves in the transfer market again. Things are indeed looking up. My reason for this post is simple. I want to remind all the nay sayers, the computer game geniuses who think that assembling a team from the ashes of a once proud club is as easy as it seems on a flickering screen in their darkened bedrooms, the never happy posters on here who think that they know better, i want them to remember where we were and then look at where we are now. And, if you can manage to cast your cynical eye to the future maybe you will be able to see brighter days ahead.The transfer forum is full of clowns questioning the money spent on Jordan Henderson and criticising one performance for a shit under 21 side, while a year ago the same ones were raging when we failed to land the likes of Carlton Cole. Too many posters on here think that LFC only came into existance on one very special night in Istanbul, and are under the illusion that nights like this are the norm. Well they are not. The Torres and Alonsos we once idolised are long gone now, we move on with what we have and we trust in the Manager.To the wannabe scouts and football agents who post on here, bigging up every player who can tie their own boots and constantly spouting the same names over and over, i say this. Put your money where your mouth is, quit your job, send kenny your cv and see if you get hired as our Eastern European talent spotter. Also, when your banned from this site or laughed out of it, stay gone,. Dont change your screen name and come back with the same rubbish. You know who i am talking about.APPRECIATE WHAT WE HAVE. IT COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT WORSE. SUPPORT THE TEAM. RESERVE JUDGEMENT. LOOK FORWARDS.
This forum is a joke
You lot will miss me when I'm gone
OK TIME TO KILL THIS SHIT ONCE AND FOR ALL. Can peolple just fuck up and stop saying the same shit back and forth 100 times holy shit... e.g. Fordy supposedly doesn't want this tread but cant stay away and continues to post the same shit on every page. It's fucking depressing the most boring argument going back and forth - "he doesn't want to be at Liverpool" replied by "he never said he doesn't" ---- repeat x100. Lets just wait and see what happens, the transfer window hasnt even "officially" opened, still a long way to go before it closes.The Situation: The original signing of Aquilani was paying a bit too much imo especially as he was injured. However the original perceived injury length was 5-8 weeks but it turned out significantly longer so bad luck. He had a poor injury record but he was managed well by us and has just completed basically a full season fit for Juve which is one of his best spells in terms of fitness in any league. I still do not know whether he will remain at Liverpool or not but I expect him to put in 100% if he does. Currently in my view for whatever reasons his value as a saleable asset is significantly lower than his talent so I think it would be foolish to sell him for anything around 10M or less but others will disagree and look to flog him off at any price. He is not world class but he definitely has class and is a very good player. If no clubs are interested then good we have more chance to keep him. He had a decent season for Juve and was recalled to the national team whilst maintaining a spot the CM over Marchisio (moved wider) for the whole season but now Pirlo and new coach Conte has come in and maybe dont need/want him.Mental problems? Some should be ashamed of themselves for falling for the media agenda-driven headline. Please read Rafa's actual quotes and see how much it corrolates to the headlinehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/03/alberto-aquilani-liverpool-mental-physical"We don't know if he needs an operation. He has some pain and we will just analyse that with the doctor. It's the same ankle he did before. Some players maybe can manage with the pain, some players when they have pain cannot. When you talk of pain you never know, it depends on each individual and that makes it really difficult." Now honestly its one big fucking stretch to suggest he had mental problems of making up pain just because he said he had pain in his troublesome ankle and couldn't play/train. He also reportedly had some problems with illness but again is it fucking impossible to catch a cold or virus? seen several examples of other players missing games for this reason.STATISTICSSources: http://www.anfieldindex.com/2180/team-part-iii-centre-midfield.html, official PL websiteConsiderations: Aquilani was injured often so couldnt play consistently yet still had favourable stats especially when compared to other mids, had no preseason.Erratic Passing? Aquilani played a mixture of CM and CAM in his time at Liverpool, so did Meireles (though plus wide mid) and Gerrard. Aquilani had a similar pass completion rate to Gerrard over the past couple of seasons and was not too far off Lucas a DM. Admittedly I thought Aquilani's passing could be erratic at times but he seems to take much more criticism that others such as Meireles, dont even start me with Adam (though his large amount of set pieces taken skew it slightly). Look at this:Aquilani pass completion rate: 79-80%Meireles pass completion rate: 73%Adam pass completion rate: 67-68%Aquilani is more creative than Meireles and makes pass and move happen. Meireles makes more gut busting runs but general passing is less precise and has less range. Adam has a great range of passing but he is super erratic especially given he usually plays a deeper role than the above 2. Adam's long passing style is kinda like Gerrard but with less consistency but obviously he excels in set pieces. In the PL Aquilani had 1 goal and 6 assists in 815 minutes of football, Meireles 5 goals 6 assists in 2525 minutes, Adam 12 goals 9 assists in 3049 minutes. It must be noted all of Aquilani's contributions were in open play, some of Meireles' assists were from set pieces. Adam only scored 2 goals and had 4-5 assists in open play. Imo open play is much more important than having a set piece specialist especially when we have plenty who can do a decent job already. I do not think these stats are a good measurement anyhow cos they only involve 1 season and limited game time e.g. Aquilani only played 18 PL games 9 started, 9 off the bench - in Meireles' first 18 which were all starts bar 2, he did not even score and only had 2 assists (period before purple patch). You could also add Aqua scored a goal in Europa league, Meireles played more minutes in that competition and did not make any contribution.Cant tackle? Shits out? Look at the link above. Tackles per 90min average: 3Tackle win success rate: 64%Possession duels won: 52%Now if this is not holding his own, actually winning more 50/50s than losing then I dunno what is. Also look at the considerations regarding his fitness issue, and he says he has improved his defensive side in Italy this season.For comparison although Adam wins 82% of tackles he only goes in for 2.12 per game average and has 51% possession duel win rate.Meireles has 69% tackle win, 56% duel, doesnt tell us how many he goes in for though but I assume it is around 2.5+Gerrard has 63% tackle win with 2.76 tackles per game last season, 53.5% duel winLucas 63% tackle win, over 5 tackles per game.VIDEO SUPPORTHere is a collection of MATCH compilations showing most touches if not every touch in games. Does not include his Burnley match where he got 3 assists (admittedly 2 were lucky but 1 sublime). Don't see where "laziness" comes from, seems very energetic and even passionate to me. Had some erratic passing games such as Bolton and Spurs but came up with important assists in those games. Also Liverpool's MOTM against Fulham and Hull in bland 0-0 draws near end of season where he was the only one creating anything. Only played 3 big clubs Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. Chelsea match he was voted best outfield player for Liverpool though no1 was trying.Aquilani vs Portsmouth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zklgnhA6x_E (domination) before u say they were relegated - Pompey beat us 2-0 earlier in season and made FA Cup final.Aquilani vs Atletico Madrid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwSWZg1aOg (pass and move at it's best)Aquilani vs Wolves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G_vVkcGB8M&feature=player_embedded (first start)Aquilani vs Arsenal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RCpEzxVbEE (debut)Aquilani vs Wigan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy6fPs49fWI&feature=related (nice cameo)Aquilani vs Reading http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaBoh1GWI3o (works tight spaces well) Actually played well contrary to the belief of some.Comparison to Juventus matches (none include goals and a few assists missing), can clearly see less movement, deeper role and more tackling and more long passes. In England people close him down faster but strangely it works in his favour as he has a quick mind and opens up spaces whereas in Italy it looks slow and hard to pick out openings. 2 goals and 6 assists as well or somethin near it over there for the season as well, 90% passing completion rate in the 1st half of the season according to a couple of articles.Aquilani vs Roma http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfjsg8LA304&feature=relmfuAquilani vs Genoa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUCNuyg9wAU&feature=relmfuAquilani vs Lazio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5AEU4FtG44&feature=relmfuAquilani vs Inter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlS9ska-4GoAquilani vs Bologna http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XugPGTyIql4&feature=relmfuAquilani vs Brescia http://www.youtube.com/user/milankakabarosfilms1#p/u/6/sBmYczTQcukA match for Italy:Aquilani vs Slovenia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeXW1MQg5_QSo when ever anyone tries to say he was complete shit, had mental problems, is weak and cant tackle, some1 just copy paste this wall fo text in reply.
If Harry can get Spurs to the CL 1/4 final then he could get England to the World Cup final.
I fucking despise Harry Redknapp. An opportunistic out-for-himself criminal taking advantage of the nationalistic tabloid press's racist obsession with English managers and players, getting more credit and praise for being thrashed by Real Madrid in the Champions league than Rafa did for winning the thing. All he does is lower expectations and talk up the opposition, ignores the vast amount of money he has thrown away on shite English midfielders and complains about Man City and Chelsea's spending, and talks up the fact he managed to fluke a Champions league place and the fact that his sides supposedly play 'attacking football', even though he scored less goals in the league last season than 'ultra-defensive' Mancini's Man City. I can't wait for the day he leaves Spurs in ruins for England, only to be thrashed by the first major European or South American team he plays, in the first major tournament he enters. That day, the press will turn on him like a pack of starving dogs and his horrible fucking reputation will be destroyed forever.
I think one of the primary reasons why some fans don't place Gerrard ahead of Kenny in the upper echelons of Liverpool greats is due to the fact that he has yet to get his hands on a league title. Titles can often be the basis for judgment, especially at a club like Liverpool. Kenny was instrumental in much of the clubs success between the late 70's and mid 80's. He was our best player during that era. It was an era where we were blessed with an array of great players, and Kenny stood above all of them in terms of all round ability. Hence his standing as "The King".However, it must be acknowledged that during Kenny's tenure as a player he was surround by collectively superior players than those which Gerrard has played with. Our team that came close to the league title in 2009 was probably the best team that Gerrard has played in. We were desperately unlucky not to win the title that year. We should have won it. Only 2 defeats all season, whilst being the highest scoring team in the league that year, 86 points, and we still came fucking 2nd? Christ, that season will haunt me forever. Alas, that's a story for another day. The crux of my point is, that although the class of 2009 were an excellent side, they would still be hard pressed to beat any of the sides that Kenny played in.Kenny never ever played in a weak side. His whole playing career with us was one which saw us challenging for top honours every year. That is a luxury that Gerrard has never had. Yet despite that, he has still been by far and away, far more influential than any other player to wear the red shirt in the last quarter of a century, and easily merits contention as Liverpool's best ever player. He has dragged us out of the shit so many times that I've lost count now. He was instrumental in both of our runs to the European Cup finals of 2005 and 2007, and lets be honest, he single handedly broke West Hams spirit at Cardiff. The shootout that day was merely a formality. Once Gerrard leveled the game with that goal, West Ham were beaten.It's true that he may not have a medal collection as impressive as Kenny's, but what he does have is a collection of attributes so broad, that he does indeed stand as Liverpool's greatest ever player IMO. His skill set truly is nothing short of phenomenal. He's a freak, a one off, a player that only comes around once in a generation. I know I've said this before, but we're talking about a guy who has played in numerous positions for us and has never ever once looked incapable of fulfilling his role. Hes played central midfield and has schooled some of the most reputable players in that position. He has played on the right side of midfield and knocked in 20 goals in the process in just 1 season there. He was part of arguably Europe's most potent strike force in 2009 when he played in the hole behind Torres. Not only that, this is a guy who went to right back in a European Cup final and delivered a flawless performance in a position that would be alien to most attack minded players like him. His skill set is that broad, that he can conceivably play anywhere, and not look out of place. His influence is immeasurable.I've long been of the opinion that the truly great players are those who have the innate ability to make intrinsically difficult task look elementary. Zidane is one that springs to mind, but Gerrard is also of the same ilk. To the naked eye it may appear that much of what he does is just run of the mill routine, but it's not. He just makes it look easy. 1 example (out of thousands) being that goal he scored away at Marseilles. It was just mind fuckingly amazing technique, ability, and confidence in ones own ability all rolled into one. That goal was no fluke, he meant it. Few players would even attempt such a shot, yet Gerrard did it and he did it with aplomb. Clive Tyldsley nailed it in the commentary when he said "only Steven Gerrard can do that". And he's right, only Steven Gerrard could score a goal like that.If Gerrard manages to get his hands on the Premier League trophy then I think most fans will finally acknowledge him as our greatest ever player. The memories of his flirtations with Chelsea will dissipate, along with many of the other niggling resentments that some fans bear towards him. Perhaps it will be under Kenny's guidance that Gerrard realizes his dream of leading Liverpool to a league title? I imagine it will. And when that day comes, I don't think even Kenny himself would deny Gerrard taking over the Anfield throne
@Robbie9Fowler robbie fowler@ @hitman8976rawk big spunky seaman was fookin massive... I saw the devil in his eyes and shit my undercrackers
It's not a couple of million. Don't miss the forest for the trees when it comes to valuing players; if you find yourself clinging desperately to simplistic measurements to prove a point, ees a proohlem, djes. The "transfer fee" you quote is not the whole story; if it were, Joe Cole would really have been a "free transfer" and John Henry wouldn't be breaking toilets over Cole's contract being worth one tenth of the total purchase price of Liverpool FC. The entire notion of "free transfers" was killed by RAWK last fall, remember that. Noone talks about "frees" anymore. Sure, Aguero's mustard. 100 goals in 230 appearances for Atletico, and fit too, averaging 35 league appearances each of the last 5 years or so. Superb player, and I mean that. Honest. The reported transfer fee, however, is but the tip of the iceberg.Over the life of their respective contracts after comparable transfer fees, Aguero will cost City almost *three times* as much as Andy Carroll - £52m or so for Aguero versus £18m for Carroll. Compare the headline transfer price - assuming you trust the your scandalous rags - against the total cost of the player. The former is Murdoch's way of dumbing shit down to sell tabloids; the latter is football sense over money. The horny Comrade who buys a fifty million quid mamasita at closing time only to find out he had brown hair doesn't get his money's worth, even if dickheads like you are impressed watching him leaves the disco. Andy Carroll's not a bad alternative to Aguero at one third of the total cost of ownership, minus comparable transfer fees. His strike rate compares favourably to Aguero's at one third of the price - 30 goals in 90 - plus Carroll's a tad younger, more familiar with English football, significantly more likely to worship his legendary manager, odds on to fit in, unlikely to leave in 2 years, frighteningly more imposing at 6 foot 3 than Aguero at 5 foot 7, and guaranteed to write tickets to any parked fucking buses that block our path. We're odds on to murder a lot more defenses with our Geordie beast than we would be sporting a front line of Aguero and Suarez. That's not bullshit. Thank you Newcastle. I mean that.As for one of the few weaknesses of Don Rafa's tenure - set pieces - he'll wryly shrug his shoulders on his couch as Adam and Downing put the ball on Andy's head just as he did when Alonso put it on Nando's against Fat Sam's Blackburn. Rafa rocks. But since he's gone, you don't get to jerk off to expensive Latins anymore. That's the price we pay for letting him Walk Alone, so no jerking off to yer Kuns and yer Matas. That ship has sailed. If Rafa's Spain North project was still around, I might be tempted to consider Aguero at 3 times Carroll. However, certain fucking shitheads chased him and his Spanish project out the door, telling us that going "English" with Roy Hodgson and Joey facking Cole was the way to beat Stoke on a cold night midweek. Well, here we stand motherfuckers. We're "English" now.Fuck fucking Aguero. If one third of Sergio Aguero equals Andy Carroll, I say (three times)HELLO BEASTIE
I was wasted and don't remember writing that. Goddamn internet.
Apologize if this is the wrong thread but couldn't find one on Steve Clarke....Could someone tell me how Clarke and Kenny know each other? What is Clarke's history? I know he was Mourinho's assistant at Chelsea but that's about it, any info is appreciated.Cheers
Rafael Benitez. The man who took us from being a forgotten force in Europe, and turned us into arguably the most feared team on the continent with the highest win coefficient in Europes most elite competition. All in the space of 2 years. He gave us nights like Olympiacos, Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea (2), AC Milan, Inter Milan, PSV, Arsenal, Barcelona, and Real Madrid to name but a few. He conquered them all. Capello, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger, Mancini, Hiddink, some of the supposed big names in managerial terms all tried it on with Rafa in Europe and failed.Not only that, he was the first one to blow the whistle on those 2 frauds that were running the club during his tenure. He could have been a yes man and done what he was told, but he took them head on, and called them on being the miserly lying bastards that they were. The snakes in our boardroom knifed him in the back in the end. Fucking gutless bastards. The way he was treated in the end still leaves a bad taste. But as far as I'm concerned that man is welcome at Anfield any time he likes. He made us European Champions again. We own a European cup for keeps thanks to him. He can have his own corporate box if he wants. He was and still is, everything a Liverpool manager should be. Pure class personified. He's welcome any time he wants
You can read too much into the start of any season, and to read anything from the first game is entirely short-sighted and isn't fair on any team, least of all one that had only 3 players (goalkeeper included) start last season's opening fixture as well as this season's. Having said that there was already a difference to see between a well established title challenging team and one finding its feet. I hate the Mancs, passionately, it isn't a hatred that I received with a Liverpool supporter's club card for my 6th birthday, nor is it a rational one, this hatred was inoculated into me seconds after birth, as it was with anybody else born in Oxford Street maternity hospital, and has festered and continues to gestate with every passing year becoming worse. I try to hide the affliction, "Oh that team down the road, oh they don't bother me..THEY'RE obsessed with US!", and yet I watch. I watch them on Sky, on ESPN, in Europe, even Charity Shields and Super Cups, and why? I want them to lose, I want them to lose badly, I want there to be no more Manchester United and to scratch their name from the annuls of history, where once was a mighty construction in Salford there will be a car park and a sign that reads "The Sami Hyypia car park"...But, fuck me, they're good.What other team can you feel uneasy seeing the opposition winning a corner against, how the fuck can you simply "know" that at 2-0 down away to Blackpool the score will finish 2-3, you even see them losing 2-0 at half time to a multi-billionaires piggy bank and you know they'll win. Today you see both central defenders hobble off (3/4 of the back line now injured), a goalkeeper who it actually looks like is shitting his kecks and a team that's on average a year younger than the one that first featured Giggs, Scholes, Neville etc. and yet you're positive that even at 80 minutes drawing 1-1, away from home, they're going to get the winner.How do they do it every year? The answer is simple, as all good things in football are: Patience.Yesterday we looked fantastic, we passed the ball with ease and purpose, we created space and denied the opposition any chances, we caused problems and all around the pitch looked assured, confident and at ease with the situation. When Suarez missed the penalty we still pushed and got our rewards, a worthy goal. Referees can be blamed for not handing out cards, for denying goals but ultimately the direction of the game, and our play, turned in one instant. Below are the pass completion stats, we start well and when Suarez scores we are even better, we maintain a high pass completion rate and the amount of passes we make remains high. We are sailing, cruising to victory, by how many is the only question to be asked?Suddenly Sunderland score and from that point on there is abject panic. There is no belief in the methods that have created so many chances and the passes become rushed, long, inaccurate and sparse. Andy Carroll soon becomes a magnet for incoming Nike projectiles and the second ball is constantly lost and by the time of the final whistle our pass completion rate has dropped again to its almost lowest point in the game. Liverpool 1 - 1 SunderlandMinutesSuccessFailPercent0-10221068%11-20651680% *21-30431672%31-4047108241-50741682%51-6034880% *61-70331273%71-80391572%81-90622769%* - 11th Minute Suarez scores* - 57th Minute Larsson scoresThere was no sense of calm, a steady head telling the players new to this situation how to react, this has to come with experience and therein lies the difference between our 2 clubs and the mission Kenny Dalglish has on his hands, to instill a consistent philosophy and belief into an impressionable set of minds. While many will focus on referees or the decision to include Flanagan these points are trivial compared to the larger scheme, the entire team had a personality breakdown. Flanagan will take the sharp end of the stick but he won't be the only player to cost us a lead through an error, Pepe Reina did the exact same thing last season, players will make mistakes and that is something that cannot be changed in football, what can be changed is the response to it.Take the Mancs for example. Like us they take an early lead and their pass completion stats rise and plateau at around 80%. Like ourselves they suffer the sting of an equaliser, as more and more time passes without a goal something strange happens, instead of panic there is belief, a self-fulfilling prophecy that Man United will score, and their pass completion rate stays as it was, they have belief in their methods and these methods pay their reward with the winning goal.West Brom 1 - 2 Manchester UnitedMinutesSuccessFailPercent0-10541479%11-20501280% *21-3036980%31-40531281% *41-50671779%51-6060986%61-70461279%71-8038980%81-90591283% *** - 13th Minute Rooney scores* - 37th Minute Long scores** - 81st Minute Reid o.g.This is why those who know football have already targeted 4th and looked no higher. This isn't just a new group of players we have but in the grand scheme of things we might as well have a new club: new owners, new manager, new director of football, new reserve boss, new players, new sponsors, new kit makers, and hopefully new stadium. Kenny Dalglish needs the time Alex Ferguson had to build a dynasty, to instill a sense of belief and calm, to bestow a philosophy upon the faithful and to wrestle the confrontation to any situation from that shower of shite down the road.What we don't need is squabbles over team selection, outcries over substitutions, finger pointing at referees, and general "the end is neigh" prophecies after 90 minutes of football. If you've been brought back down to Earth with a bang after 90 minutes I hate to be the one to break it to you but this rebuilding is going to take years, if not a decade, to truly overtake Man United as favorites for the title.Fans and players alike need patience.
Would sacrifice Fordy in a sacred Mayan ritual to have him as the next Liverpool manager
