Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD

[royhendo]

In other words--you've removed Gini's minutes and replaced them with Balsa wood!

It's not the first time it's happened (and I'm not including last year's centre half issues either). It's the downside of his appetite for risk and his belief in his group. The upside was the Barca 2nd leg, cos they did it for him big style then (and there are a few more examples of that too).

[JackWard33]

It's not the first time it's happened (and I'm not including last year's centre half issues either). It's the downside of his appetite for risk and his belief in his group. The upside was the Barca 2nd leg, cos they did it for him big style then (and there are a few more examples of that too).

I do get that and you’re absolutely right about the philosophy but the reality is we’ve persisted with players he doesn’t trust or want to play. (Namely Origi Minamino Keita Ox Williams and to an extent Jones) - so he fosters a group mentality but really only trusts 15 or 16
This can obviously work (we’ve got the trophies to show for it) but the last two years our inability to successfully rotate has cost us

Not an easy problem to solve with the limitations on budget and player movement the last two years but more work should have been done to remedy it this summer
Having the shadow of James Milner starting big games was preventable 

[lionel_messias]

Yeah sounds sensible. I’d probably prefer even just losing the first two, signing two more and keeping Naby.

I too like Naby. I like the idea of Naby even more than the reality. That said, please Robbie Fowler he gets back from Africa in one piece, then I'd start him in the majority of games in a row and see what we get from him, let him build up his rhythm. One last blast for him leading up to the crucial summer.

[FowlerLegend]

It's not the first time it's happened (and I'm not including last year's centre half issues either). It's the downside of his appetite for risk and his belief in his group. The upside was the Barca 2nd leg, cos they did it for him big style then (and there are a few more examples of that too).

Do you think its down to Klopp or budget or a bit of both?
I get Jürgen likes a trim squad and maybe he just has massive faith in his players but I don't get that he would choose to go with this squad this season. On the one hand he is always looking for marginal gains but on the other he seems oblivious to Naby and Thiago being made of chocolate and Milly being much less effective and also 36. Hendo not being able to do quite what he could either.
He must have known Gini was off and that he had to play him virtually all of last season. His attitude in big games of overlooking Naby, Jones and the Ox also speaks volumes.
Sure, I think he could never have predicted the injury to Elliot but if he is as happy with his squad as he says publically he has a funny way of showing it in practice.
I think he is an optimist, pragmatic, works with what he has and realises the counter-productiveness in talking about what the squad lacks in public but I cannot see how he would be doing what he does if he was genuinely happy with it.

[royhendo]

Do you think its down to Klopp or budget or a bit of both?

Both. When we've had budget, we've not forced the issue and brought the player in earlier - the two main examples are Keita and Werner, both of whom we could have done earlier (Werner was kiboshed due to a COVID rethink). We did it with Virgil though. So I guess it depends, but they tend heavily towards not doing anything in January.

[CraigDS]

We did it with Virgil though. So I guess it depends, but they tend heavily towards not doing anything in January.

Mostly because we got stopped from doing the VVD move in the prior summer.

[royhendo]

Mostly because we got stopped from doing the VVD move in the prior summer.

yeah exactly.

[Dim Glas]

Do you think its down to Klopp or budget or a bit of both?
I get Jürgen likes a trim squad and maybe he just has massive faith in his players but I don't get that he would choose to go with this squad this season. On the one hand he is always looking for marginal gains but on the other he seems oblivious to Naby and Thiago being made of chocolate and Milly being much less effective and also 36. Hendo not being able to do quite what he could either.
He must have known Gini was off and that he had to play him virtually all of last season. His attitude in big games of overlooking Naby, Jones and the Ox also speaks volumes.
Sure, I think he could never have predicted the injury to Elliot but if he is as happy with his squad as he says publically he has a funny way of showing it in practice.
I think he is an optimist, pragmatic, works with what he has and realises the counter-productiveness in talking about what the squad lacks in public but I cannot see how he would be doing what he does if he was genuinely happy with it.

you honestly think Jürgen Klopp is oblivious to Milner’s limitations now? I mean last night the only issue for me was that he wasn’t subbed half time. Jones not starting 2 games in a few days was expected for me, as he had a long layoff.

I do think he doesn’t trust Keita though, and is frustrated that he’s not been as coachable as other midfielders (Hendo and Gini being the prime examples of ultra coachable midfielders he’s had here), and also the fact he’s just not been able to stay fit and be one of those ‘go-to’ players every coach needs a few of.

[FowlerLegend]

you honestly think Jürgen Klopp is oblivious to Milner’s limitations now? I mean last night the only issue for me was that he wasn’t subbed half time. Jones not starting 2 games in a few days was expected for me, as he had a long layoff.

I do think he doesn’t trust Keita though, and is frustrated that he’s not been as coachable as other midfielders (Hendo and Gini being the prime examples of ultra coachable midfielders he’s had here), and also the fact he’s just not been able to stay fit and be one of those ‘go-to’ players every coach needs a few of.

No, I don't, that was kind of my point. His actions and his words don't align. He says how happy he is with his squad but keeps going to Milner for the big games.

[FowlerLegend]

Both. When we've had budget, we've not forced the issue and brought the player in earlier - the two main examples are Keita and Werner, both of whom we could have done earlier (Werner was kiboshed due to a COVID rethink). We did it with Virgil though. So I guess it depends, but they tend heavily towards not doing anything in January.

I agree, I don't think they will do anything in January.
Klopp said didn't he that it doesn't make sense to buy a player in Jan unless he was a player you couldn't get the previous summer or one you intend to buy this.
Hopefully the budget will be there in the summer.
I also hope it isn't sales dependent. The one thing that gives me hope that it won't be is the approach the summer we wanted to buy Van Dijk. From memory early in the window it was known we wanted Van Dijk, Keita and one other way before there were any noises about Coutinho wanting to go
In the end we got Keita and had to wait until the December to get Van Dijk. On that basis the selling of Coutinho had nothing to do with the Van Dijk money and the club always intended to go big that summer regardless of sales.
That or the club knew early that Coutinho would be going to Barcelona and it was all stage managed. Hopefully not!

[skipper757]

Do you think its down to Klopp or budget or a bit of both?
I get Jürgen likes a trim squad and maybe he just has massive faith in his players but I don't get that he would choose to go with this squad this season. On the one hand he is always looking for marginal gains but on the other he seems oblivious to Naby and Thiago being made of chocolate and Milly being much less effective and also 36. Hendo not being able to do quite what he could either.
He must have known Gini was off and that he had to play him virtually all of last season. His attitude in big games of overlooking Naby, Jones and the Ox also speaks volumes.
Sure, I think he could never have predicted the injury to Elliot but if he is as happy with his squad as he says publically he has a funny way of showing it in practice.
I think he is an optimist, pragmatic, works with what he has and realises the counter-productiveness in talking about what the squad lacks in public but I cannot see how he would be doing what he does if he was genuinely happy with it.

Don't think it's oblivious as much as the numbers.  We've got Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Ox, Curtis, and Harvey in midfield.  Even with Gini gone, that's a lot of players.  Klopp doesn't trust everyone the same amount obviously, but he's got faith in all these players to give them time.  Even given the injury-prone nature of a few of the players, he couldn't have foreseen Harvey's injury for example.  In the end, we had a crazy year last year, and I'd like to think he'd want to have at least a final look and for players to have another shot (in a more "normal" year) to win their places.

Given that Milner's contract is up and that Keita and Ox both have 1 year left in the summer, we might see some more movement now.

[Bergersrightwingviews]

You could argue Taki needs the game time of course but would have been nice to see Gordon come on and stay wide right and Jota left

I’d rather give the minutes to Gordon to be honest. I can’t see Minamino establishing himself as a potential starter now. I’d sell him personally.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

No, I don't, that was kind of my point. His actions and his words don't align. He says how happy he is with his squad but keeps going to Milner for the big games.

You don't think maybe he picks Milner because he's been a very consistent player for almost 20 years in the top flight?

[MD1990]

Keita is a talent.
Problem like Minamino he isnt very strong. Pushed off the ball too easily at times.

[FowlerLegend]

You don't think maybe he picks Milner because he's been a very consistent player for almost 20 years in the top flight?

I think the fact that he doesn't trust the others to offer more than Milner gives now is a damning indictment of what he thinks they can offer.

[FowlerLegend]

Don't think it's oblivious as much as the numbers.  We've got Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Ox, Curtis, and Harvey in midfield.  Even with Gini gone, that's a lot of players.  Klopp doesn't trust everyone the same amount obviously, but he's got faith in all these players to give them time.  Even given the injury-prone nature of a few of the players, he couldn't have foreseen Harvey's injury for example.  In the end, we had a crazy year last year, and I'd like to think he'd want to have at least a final look and for players to have another shot (in a more "normal" year) to win their places.

Given that Milner's contract is up and that Keita and Ox both have 1 year left in the summer, we might see some more movement now.

He couldn't have foreseen the injury to Harvey or the freakish injury to Curtis but the rest was depressingly predictable.
I think they probably did play a numbers game but even then if you are chopping and changing every week that is almost as bad as being short on numbers.
The point is that I don't think it would have been his choice to go with this squad this season but that it was more the budget wasn't there.
Gini left having played virtually every game and everyone bar Harvey (who doesn't play his position) were here last season. So the risk of Gini being heavily missed if not replaced was very apparent.

[El Lobo]

People will seemingly bang that drum for many years, but it still boggles my mind that people are looking at this season and going ‘Yeah, it’s Wijnaldum they’re missing’

[Asam]

He couldn't have foreseen the injury to Harvey or the freakish injury to Curtis but the rest was depressingly predictable.
I think they probably did play a numbers game but even then if you are chopping and changing every week that is almost as bad as being short on numbers.
The point is that I don't think it would have been his choice to go with this squad this season but that it was more the budget wasn't there.
Gini left having played virtually every game and everyone bar Harvey (who doesn't play his position) were here last season. So the risk of Gini being heavily missed if not replaced was very apparent.

You always get unexpected injuries, we also have predictable injuries to cater for

We also seem obsessed with trying to do make it as hard for ourselves as possible to compete by not strengthening adequately

[Dim Glas]

I think the fact that he doesn't trust the others to offer more than Milner gives now is a damning indictment of what he thinks they can offer.

I think reliability is a big part of that lack of trust, as in an unwillingness to start players who are sadly just not robust! A preference to bring on someone like Keita (and Ox as well) on as a sub with 20-30 mins to play.  But that of course then brings up the queston of going into seasons with too many players who maybe are not reliable enough - as many have stated.

As for him saying one thing, that’s just him, he’s always going to stick up for players and won’t make public any dissatisfaction.

[FowlerLegend]

You always get unexpected injuries, we also have predictable injuries to cater for

We also seem obsessed with trying to do make it as hard for ourselves as possible to compete by not strengthening adequately

Yeah, don't disagree. One impact injury shouldn't impact you as much (especially when you have had the exact same experience the season before).
As I said, hopefully they will move away from the bare minimum approach if the last 3 summers

[Coolie High]

People will seemingly bang that drum for many years, but it still boggles my mind that people are looking at this season and going ‘Yeah, it’s Wijnaldum they’re missing’

We’re missing a CM who can play 35 games in the league, or in the bigger games a player who is press resistant, has a good touch, and doesn’t just lob the ball in the air when heavily pressed. I actually didn’t mind him going, but looking at how the season in games where we’re playing Milner and Henderson as 2 of the 3, I think maybe we do miss him, just for the fact he ticks boxes other doesn’t, most notably the ability to stay fit for 99% of the season.

[FowlerLegend]

I think reliability is a big part of that lack of trust, as in an unwillingness to start players who are sadly just not robust! A preference to bring on someone like Keita (and Ox as well) on as a sub with 20-30 mins to play.  But that of course then brings up the queston of going into seasons with too many players who maybe are not reliable enough - as many have stated.

As for him saying one thing, that’s just him, he’s always going to stick up for players and won’t make public any dissatisfaction.

Yeah, I agree and he knows exactly what he will get from Milner - fitness and performance.
Have no problem with him always backing his players in public. I think he was aware of the issues with the midfield going into the season, hopefully he has been waiting for the right player to come available this summer.

[El Lobo]

We’re missing a CM who can play 35 games in the league, or in the bigger games a player who is press resistant, has a good touch, and doesn’t just lob the ball in the air when heavily pressed. I actually didn’t mind him going, but looking at how the season in games where we’re playing Milner and Henderson as 2 of the 3, I think maybe we do miss him, just for the fact he ticks boxes other doesn’t, most notably the ability to stay fit for 99% of the season.

I’d imagine we’ve comfortably replaced his minutes with Fabinho and Henderson not playing CB and Ox and Naby playing more. And I’m not sure there’s much else that he provided last season that those four haven’t.

The issues I think we’re having this season are COVID disrupting our rhythm and returning players not quite being at the level they were before injury. The Wijnaldum thing is just a convenient excuse.

[A-Bomb]

Can't see it happening, but Pedri is the player i would love to see here....he's a fabulous talent and would be fantastic in Klopps system as an 8.

[Hazell]

I'm impressed with the consistency of the formatting of your posts.  That's it. 

If this means what I think it means, it has amused me.

[Egyptian36]

I wondered after the Super League farce whether it was the beginning of them looking to get out. Followed up by renewal of contracts for high value assets but little external investment gave more rise to that belief and that maybe Redbird would be in the wings for a  bigger role but I think I was wrong about that.
I am not sure what their plan is but I think they will invest quite big in the summer. Letting things slide doesn't make financial sense.

Who knows maybe they are looking to get out especially since things they wanted to happen didn't like strict FFP rules or a different broadcasting deals structure, I don't know but to be fair credit to them, building a successful team despite all the challenges and the starting difficult position we were in is an amazing achievement. The thing is, a big reason of this success was down to us selling very well but right now we can't generate money like before from selling because of many reasons.

The situation as I see it. Players will be leaving on free if we don't extend their contracts and we don't have money to replace them not to mention extending their contracts with a bigger salary is bad for us too. I don't think they will invest, they will find a solution and I bet many of us won't like it.

[FowlerLegend]

Who knows maybe they are looking to get out especially since things they wanted to happen didn't like strict FFP rules or a different broadcasting deals structure, I don't know but to be fair credit to them, building a successful team despite all the challenges and the starting difficult position we were in is an amazing achievement. The thing is, a big reason of this success was down to us selling very well but right now we can't generate money like before from selling because of many reasons.

The situation as I see it. Players will be leaving on free if we don't extend their contracts and we don't have money to replace them not to mention extending their contracts with a bigger salary is bad for us too. I don't think they will invest, they will find a solution and I bet many of us won't like it.

My biggest concern at the time was the whole principle of the SL. Either it was a powerplay to get more out of Uefa from the reforms that happened that week (which could well have been the case) or it was an attempt to pull the drawbridge up on Newcastle etc and lock Liverpool's revenues in.
If it was the latter and it failed, it's a bit much to think John Henry just gave it up and was happy to carry on business as usual.
The world and it's mother can see we will soon need big investment to stay competitive and without obvious options to sell it surely has to come from the owners.
It will be an interesting summer for sure and yes, we may not like their solution.

[cdav]

I don't think players will leave on a free and I think we will extend Mo's contract. But, if we were in that negative situation, the wage bill would drop significantly (with a number out of contract) and would allow for more transfers

*If* we complete this season with fans then this year our wage bill should be around 55-60% of revenue so we should be in a stronger position.

[Fromola]

It's not the first time it's happened (and I'm not including last year's centre half issues either). It's the downside of his appetite for risk and his belief in his group. The upside was the Barca 2nd leg, cos they did it for him big style then (and there are a few more examples of that too).

True, but we also lost 3-0 in the away leg with Gini up front. If Barca could have hit a barndoor at Anfield the tie was over first half.

We also crucially dropped points at home to Leicester in the league with Henderson at right back just after we'd let Clyne go. Just before that we sneaked out wins against Brighton and Palace with a very makeshift defence.

[Samie]

The type people looknig to spend $3 billion to buy us and then on top of that satisfy some of your needs to compete financially with the financial dopers are limited to a very few people and that may require us to be financial dopers too if you want to go down that route.

[Chris~]

Clyne 

[JRed]

The type people looknig to spend $3 billion to buy us and then on top of that satisfy some of your needs to compete financially with the financial dopers are limited to a very few people and that may require us to be financial dopers too if you want to go down that route.

I agree with this, which is why club valuations are pretty pointless now. Clubs have become so expensive that only sportswashers can buy out a top club then also invest enough money to compete with the sportswashers already in the game.
This doesn’t mean current owners cannot still invest in signing players tho. I don’t think anyone in here wants it a to become a sportswashing project, however there should have been more investment in player in the last few years.

[FowlerLegend]

The type people looknig to spend $3 billion to buy us and then on top of that satisfy some of your needs to compete financially with the financial dopers are limited to a very few people and that may require us to be financial dopers too if you want to go down that route.

Assuming FSG are not planning to sell up, I don't think they need to be financial dopers to keep us competitive. I never quite understand how it is binary, that you either run the club so it's completely self sustainable or you run it like City and Chelsea. There are plenty of clubs who have spent more than us over the last 3 years to improve themselves but less than City and Chelsea. We as a club were always run somewhere in between until the point H&G took over.

[67CherryRed]

We need fresh blood, that goes without saying, but I think we need a change of philosophy.

We don't tend to take a punt on a 19/20 year old (Olise, Eze for example) and instead wait an extra 2/3 years until they're proven and then we're happy to pay 3 times the price and presumably pay 3 times the wages.

This means we've got a small-ish squad full of first team players (wage wise) and then the drop off to the U23s / youth is huge.

Maybe we should look and distributing the big money across 14/15 really top grade players (A+, instead of the mix of A+ to Bs we have now), and then have half a dozen bright young things waiting for their chance.

We're an ageing squad so we need major surgery soon, we need both quality but also quantity.

[PeterTheRed ...]

I have never been a FSG apologist, but we have just finished a new state-of-the-art £50 million training complex, and we are upgrading the stadium with 7,000 new seats, in a middle of a pandemic and a world economic crisis. Personally, I'd like a bit more turnover in the squad (especially in the second XI) every season, including the January tranafer windows, but I am also glad that we are introducing more and more youngsters to senior football. I guess we will have to wait for the crisis to be over, so we can see what is the plan for the future ...

[Sangria]

I have never been a FSG apologist, but we have just finished a new state-of-the-art £50 million training complex, and we are upgrading the stadium with 7,000 new seats, in a middle of a pandemic and a world economic crisis. Personally, I'd like a bit more turnover in the squad (especially in the second XI) every season, including the January tranafer windows, but I am also glad that we are introducing more and more youngsters to senior football. I guess we will have to wait for the crisis to be over, so we can see what is the plan for the future ...

That's prudent from their business perspective. But AFAIK none of that spending counts towards FFP.

[Asam]

Yeah, don't disagree. One impact injury shouldn't impact you as much (especially when you have had the exact same experience the season before).
As I said, hopefully they will move away from the bare minimum approach if the last 3 summers

If the club wants to actually challenge then yes but since the majority of supporters don’t seem bothered about not doing more then it wouldn’t surprise me if next summer is the same

We can the expect another summer of being lectured why a single first team player is all that’s needed only to see the title challenge end in December

[careful on these streets, I've heard stories]

It's not crazy to expect that we could have done better with our squad building over the past few windows even with the pandemic, there were a few areas that needed attention.

In attack we have bodies but in terms of profiles of players that really fit into our team and are good enough to contribute there is only Salah, Mane, Firmino, and Jota. If we really pushed we could have found a way to sell Origi and Taki to help generate funds towards taking a punt on 25m on a young pacy wide player who is yet to make that step that makes them super expensive like Adeyemi, Anthony.

In midfield I feel like we've just been kicking the can down the road and ignoring the issue, we have some good players in there but overall there are way too many potential selection issues. We really should have made the decision to sell either Naby or Ox and bring in someone else who would be a bit more reliable.

[BarryCrocker]

How would Ndombele go in our midfield? Maybe a loan as he's on the outer at Spurs.

Just asking. He was outstanding in a great Lyon team and is has only just turned 25.

[newterp]

How would Ndombele go in our midfield? Maybe a loan as he's on the outer at Spurs.

Just asking. He was outstanding in a great Lyon team and is has only just turned 25.

This presumes he will no longer be lazy and unfit? Thungs he could get away with in France it seems.

He was hailed as a great purchase by spurs by all.