Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD

[killer-heels]

Personally don't think Tsimikas is anywhere near Robertson's level, but that is by the way. Only Jota and Konate are regulars in the side (and that is because Matip is so prone to injury, unsurprising in a player his age). As I said, you need 4-5 more players pushing the first teamers, not 1-2. If tomorrow one of Henderson, Fabinho or Thiago are injured for months, who comes in? Milner (36), Cahmberlain (28) or Keita(26)? Only two of those are in a good age range and none are a good like-for-like replacement. Up front Jota, covers the front three, but after that it is a big drop off; we are panicking because Salah and Mane are gone for a few weeks, what if that was for months? Origi? Minamino? At the back there are riches at CB, but no cover for right back and if Alisson was out for a few months, would it be ok to use Kelleher every week?

All the young players mentioned can fill a gap short term, but none are medium to long term solutions and none are pushing first teamers out of the side; only Jota and Konate are doing that.

The first team is good, but its old, and there is very little competition for places. I don't think that's a positive profile for the squad.

I disagree on us needing 4-5 and of course if we lost Mane and Salah for months then it would be a problem, but it would be a problem for everyone.

[CraigDS]

The first team is good, but its old, and there is very little competition for places. I don't think that's a positive profile for the squad.

Alisson
Kelleher
Trent
Konate
Gomez
Matip
VVD
Robertson
Tsimikas
Henderson
Fabinho
Thiago
Milner
Keita
Jones
Elliott
Mane
Jota
Salah
Bobby

That's 20 players I'd not grumble if I saw their name on the team sheet vs any side in the world. Now we can argue over a few for sure, and some are young and possibly not going to be consistent (although we've seen young players take the opportunity to play consistently when given in the past), but I'd say that's a pretty decent amount of competition for 11 spaces.

[cdav]

When have we ever spent £60-£80m net?

Klopp has net spend of £150m in total in 6 years.

We did about £120m net in 18/19 when we bough Alison/ Naby etc, after turning a £30m profit the year before selling Coutinho/ buying VVD I think

[clinical]

We did about £120m net in 18/19 when we bough Alison/ Naby etc, after turning a £30m profit the year before selling Coutinho/ buying VVD I think

Pretty certain half of that coutinho fee went on Alisson.

I reckon we'll spend net £15m or so with the rest made up from sales.

[DonkeyWan]

The midfield needs work, I agree, and I think we'll likely see that this summer.

The keeper could be the best in the world for 5+ years yet.

Our fullbacks are decent ages, with Tsimikas a younger back up to Robbo. At CB Gomez and Konate are both young, and VVD strikes me as a player who will be in his prime for a while yet.

Midfield, yeah I agree we need some new blood.

The forward line is a funny one. I expect Salah to be signed up, and Jota is a good age. I think we may look at another younger option and move on one of Bobby or Mane.

That's not a shit load of transfer work we need to do, and it certainly doesn't all need doing over one summer window.

Personally think you are looking at 4-5 players, optimally (RB cover, 2 midfielders, 1-2 forward) and soon. If you take your time over the next few windows you will just keep replicating last season and this season (nearly men status). There is also a financial incentive, particularly if the club wants to use sales to finance purchases. For example, Mane is no longer the effective player he once was. Maybe he wil have an Indian summer and have 1 or 2 decent seasons on the next 2-3 years. But the cost is what could be gained from his sale as well as the vigour and dynamism of a younger player coming in. Do you keep Mane knowing his peak is probably past? Or sell him to Newcastle for £50m and invest it? It's a balance, but currently Liverpool seems to be leaning too much one way. 

[DonkeyWan]

Alisson
Kelleher
Trent
Konate
Gomez
Matip
VVD
Robertson
Tsimikas
Henderson
Fabinho
Thiago
Milner
Keita
Jones
Elliott
Mane
Jota
Salah
Bobby

That's 20 players I'd not grumble if I saw their name on the team sheet vs any side in the world. Now we can argue over a few for sure, and some are young and possibly not going to be consistent (although we've seen young players take the opportunity to play consistently when given in the past), but I'd say that's a pretty decent amount of competition for 11 spaces.

In a one off, yes, but for a sustained run of games, that is the real issue.

[Fruity]

That's a provocative statement I reckon. It's one way to do it, certainly... but it's not the only way. Which player in Man City's team is the best in the world in his position?

When I say best in the world I don't mean No.1 but say top 5 or even top 10. Both Mane and Salah would have been top 5 in 2019. Alisson top 3. VVD no.1 etc.
The point though is what we are saying about the youth currently like Gordon, Elliot, Morton etc is that they need to become Top 10 or we need to bring in players that will - at least for the interim as most are years off.

[JackWard33]

snip

Yeah its a good squad - I think people are being a bit overly negative at the moment and misdiagnosing the problem
We're putting up +1.4 xg per 90 in the league - that's insanely good.
Or to put it in non-nerd... our team and squad are comfortably good enough to win the CL this season (and would have been good enough to win the league if they hadn't been up against a historically great City team and/or had been a bit less unfortunate/better able to close down games in key spots)

The problem is staying at this level and building to get as close as we can to City and to do that over the next 3 years when several key players are ageing
Specifically it needs 2 or 3 more in the 21-25 bracket who the manager trusts as first team players to replace the squad players that he doesn't

[clinical]

The midfield needs work, I agree, and I think we'll likely see that this summer.

The keeper could be the best in the world for 5+ years yet.

Our fullbacks are decent ages, with Tsimikas a younger back up to Robbo. At CB Gomez and Konate are both young, and VVD strikes me as a player who will be in his prime for a while yet.

Midfield, yeah I agree we need some new blood.

The forward line is a funny one. I expect Salah to be signed up, and Jota is a good age. I think we may look at another younger option and move on one of Bobby or Mane.

That's not a shit load of transfer work we need to do, and it certainly doesn't all need doing over one summer window.

I think everyone has come to the same conclusion though.  A young midfielder and attacker is key and to do so we'll probably have to sacrifice Mane or Bobby along with several other squad players like Keita, Origi, Phillips, Chamberlain to be able to afford them along with Salah's contract.

[mkingdon]

Our model is we fund purchases through earnings and that isn't going to change.

There's a lot of talk of the age of midfield and attack which I get, but Elliot and Jones are already trusted starters for Klopp. Elliot was starting EPL games ahead of older players at the start of the season. They will hopefully be the foundations of our next midfield evolution, of course hopefully supported by Naby and AOC (insert the usual fitness caveat here).

Whatever we do up top will be funded from sales. All we need to do is sell some players to Newcastle who just paid £25m for Wood!

I'm not saying I want these players to go but they are the ones that could be use to generate the funds to address our "aging" front line.

Origi
Taki
Gomez
Phillips

There will be players outside of that list that others may include, Naby maybe for the right money.....but the money generated plus our "usual" £30m net spend is what we will have to bring in a mid 20s forward who can eventually take their place in our front three.

Hopefully players like Gordon, Morton and the others young players starting to get minutes can also help with our average age, but if not they will be sold for a few million in the coming years of course.

There's lots of talk every window about an Mbappe or Haalland type players but we just don't buy those players. Aside from a huge fee, they will want stupid wages and we don't seem eager to pay those to a player who is the best in the world right now who has won the lot with us.

Our model is our model and broadly it has worked, mainly thanks to Klopp and the recruitment team. We just have to hope we sell those we want to for the maximum we can and use those funds wisely again.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

I'm not saying I want these players to go but they are the ones that could be use to generate the funds to address our "aging" front line.

Origi
Ox
Keita
Taki
Gomez
Phillips

Prefer this

[CraigDS]

I think everyone has come to the same conclusion though.  A young midfielder and attacker is key and to do so we'll probably have to sacrifice Mane or Bobby along with several other squad players like Keita, Origi, Phillips, Chamberlain to be able to afford them along with Salah's contract.

With Milner leaving I can't see us selling both Keita and Ox too. Prob one of them sure.

Would leave us with Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago, Keita, Elliott and the newbie. The worry for me there is the first 4 of those have shown they can pick up regular injuries so I could see why we're maybe interested in Zakaria.

[dutchkop]

The above posts all make a lot of sense

I think signing up Salah will be a challenge but done.

Hopefully the scouting team and Edwards replacing team do the same on the few tweaks to our squad needed this summer.

Although I think a surprise incoming player would have been nice this transfer window - But as Taki, Div and Phillips are all injured the outgoing sale was also difficult.

[royhendo]

Personally don't think Tsimikas is anywhere near Robertson's level, but that is by the way.

It's funny - for me Robertson's a pretty unique profile of left back, but somehow Tsimikas, while a different type in some ways, slots in and offers something important. I think he adds to the flat track bullying qualities though, whereas you want Robertson in the big head to heads. It's an important point though - he's younger and he's already developed since he arrived... will that stop or will he get better?

Only Jota and Konate are regulars in the side (and that is because Matip is so prone to injury, unsurprising in a player his age).

So that's 2 of the 11 with a younger age profile already.

As I said, you need 4-5 more players pushing the first teamers, not 1-2.

So the gaps is 3 young players pushing first team players. I think that's fair comment DW. I also think it's fair on the quality of cover, but the manager's signing off on the approach. We still went 6 wins in the CL group with Morton, Williams et al getting game time. Even Phillips.

if Alisson was out for a few months, would it be ok to use Kelleher every week?

On this one, yeah - I think Kelleher's pretty excellent really.

All the young players mentioned can fill a gap short term, but none are medium to long term solutions and none are pushing first teamers out of the side; only Jota and Konate are doing that.

The first team is good, but its old, and there is very little competition for places. I don't think that's a positive profile for the squad.

I'd agree we're maybe a few players in the right age profile off the ideal position, and I do think we'll allow Ox and Keita to leave once we're comfortable we have cover of the right standard; Milner's already confirmed as off at the end of the season too.

We have an acid test for  the worst case scenario too in the shape of last season. A whole department knocked out of commission that threw the spine of the team off and by extension undermined the midfield, and the whole set up of the team... and we qualified for the CL - yes it was tight, but we did it.

I'm glass half full is all but we've had that discussion before. I think you're right but I don't think it's difficult to fix. I think it's more difficult for us to keep hold of Salah than to fix the age profile - I think natural churn and good recruitment will sort that aspect.

[royhendo]

Anfield Index posted up this today. [edit - should include the link! https://twitter.com/AIUnderPressure/status/1481577652230234116 ]



Ox, Keita and Milner are the ones headed for the exit door aren't they?

[DonkeyWan]

I'm glass half full is all but we've had that discussion before. I think you're right but I don't think it's difficult to fix. I think it's more difficult for us to keep hold of Salah than to fix the age profile - I think natural churn and good recruitment will sort that aspect.

I agree, I have a much more cautious, glass-half-empty mindset for team and squad building, and things rarely turm out too badly, but when even the positive folk are saying we need replacements, then we defintitely need replacements.

I am annoyed nothing is happening this window though, I really hoped to see some new blood blooded for next season. I hate leaving it to the summer and starting next season with a slightly not good enough squad, again.

[Chip Evans]

I hate leaving it to the summer.

There's not even a sniff of a Konate style - "we have an agreement and it'll be done on day 1 of the summer" rumour at the minute. Thought there'd be a bit more flying around myself - especially on fringier outgoings.

It's been a weird 4 weeks in football-land with the new wave of covid. It feels like momentum has slowed, even in the media and transfer land, not just our own month of hell. It's all a bit dead and quiet. Expected more to be happening in this window everywhere.  But there's a bit of uncertainty has creeped in - and I think we tend to sit on our hands in that situation, which can feel like a bit of missed opportunity - but it might just be smart.

[royhendo]

I agree, I have a much more cautious, glass-half-empty mindset for team and squad building, and things rarely turm out too badly, but when even the positive folk are saying we need replacements, then we defintitely need replacements.

I am annoyed nothing is happening this window though, I really hoped to see some new blood blooded for next season. I hate leaving it to the summer and starting next season with a slightly not good enough squad, again.

I just think they're all over the contract situation to the extent they can be. If they had unlimited money they'd have cover in all slots to the extent Jurgen wanted them I reckon. The only time he's seemed annoyed though was with letting Wijnaldum go, and he was in the elderly bracket.

[Asam]

Anfield Index posted up this today.



Ox, Keita and Milner are the ones headed for the exit door aren't they?

Based on the second graph you can see why they might be surplus

[Asam]

Alisson
Kelleher
Trent
Konate
Gomez
Matip
VVD
Robertson
Tsimikas
Henderson
Fabinho
Thiago
Milner
Keita
Jones
Elliott
Mane
Jota
Salah
Bobby

That's 20 players I'd not grumble if I saw their name on the team sheet vs any side in the world. Now we can argue over a few for sure, and some are young and possibly not going to be consistent (although we've seen young players take the opportunity to play consistently when given in the past), but I'd say that's a pretty decent amount of competition for 11 spaces.

I’d say 2-3 for the first team assuming Elliott and Jones are able to play much more minutes next season

Forward - Gouiri
Midfield -  Bellingham

+ a few youngsters in the same class as Elliott/Gordon

The problem isnt the squad overall it’s the drop down in class, system fit and ability to rest players

[killer-heels]

I’d say 2-3 for the first team assuming Elliott and Jones are able to play much more minutes next season

Forward - Gouiri
Midfield -  Bellingham

+ a few youngsters in the same class as Elliott/Gordon

The problem isnt the squad overall it’s the drop down in class, system fit and ability to rest players

Dont think its a drop down in class but availability and past injury issues that have led to this point where players are not trusted enough. Ox doesnt get that bad injury and Keita is durable when he arrives, we have no problem and they get played and in their prime.

[clinical]

Dont think its a drop down in class but availability and past injury issues that have led to this point where players are not trusted enough. Ox doesnt get that bad injury and Keita is durable when he arrives, we have no problem and they get played and in their prime.

I think we'll always chose the right players whilst klopp is here. But our problem is shifting the players we no longer want. For all the talk Edwards is a genius in selling players since covid we've really struggled.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Sergej Milinkovic-Savic has previously been 'linked' with us.

Never seen him play but he sure knows where the net is. 54 goals in 214 appearances for lazio, no pens

[Samie]

Newcastle want Nat Phillips. That's  £80m for the Bolton Baresi thank you very much.

[The G in Gerrard]

Newcastle want Nat Phillips. That's  £80m for the Bolton Baresi thank you very much.

How many central defenders they after? Thought they were after one from Monaco and one that plays in Spain?

[Samie]

Badiashile (Monaco) and Botman (Lille) have been linked but they seem to be most interested in Diego Carlos of Seville but can;t agree a fee. Nat they think is a cheaper option. 

[The G in Gerrard]

Hahaha. How much is being touted price wise for those players?

[FowlerLegend]

Badiashile (Monaco) and Botman (Lille) have been linked but they seem to be most interested in Diego Carlos of Seville but can;t agree a fee. Nat they think is a cheaper option. 

Could be using it to call Sevilla's bluff on Carlos

[Samie]

No idea mate but certainly more than the £25m they've bid for Diego Carlos which was rejected. They want  40 million.  So I presume Monaco and Lille want around similar prices for their talent.  Badiashile is one of the next gen French Central Defenders off the conveyor belt that they're producing so he will cost a fair amount.

[pathetic]

We need to start selling our players. We already lost a first teamer willingly last year on a free when we were certain that he was gonna leave. Why not sell him for a fee? Why let him wind down his contract? We're not a rich club so letting players leave on a free or selling them with 1yr/6months on their contracts shouldn't be an option as their value is greatly decreased. If we had sold Wijnaldum, we would have at least covered Thiago's fee, alas we didn't and we have to find money from somewhere for another midfielder come next summer. Same thing with Can. Let's hope it's not the same thing for one of Mane/Salah/Firmino/Ox/Keita etc etc etc

[The G in Gerrard]

No idea mate but certainly more than the £25m they've bid for Diego Carlos which was rejected. They want  40 million.  So I presume Monaco and Lille want around similar prices for their talent.  Badiashile is one of the next gen French Central Defenders off the conveyor belt that they're producing so he will cost a fair amount.

Ok £39 million for Nat then

[Fruity]

I agree, I have a much more cautious, glass-half-empty mindset for team and squad building, and things rarely turm out too badly, but when even the positive folk are saying we need replacements, then we defintitely need replacements.

I am annoyed nothing is happening this window though, I really hoped to see some new blood blooded for next season. I hate leaving it to the summer and starting next season with a slightly not good enough squad, again.

I like a lot of what FSG have done. I fully expect them to sort the Salah contract - but imagine it's a case of brinkmanship at the moment and that we are not gonna cower to player demands etc - but I think we will sort the deal out.

I don't necessarily agree with everything they do and felt they have missed a trick in regards to transfer policy at times. I do think not finding a suitable replacement/subtitute for Mane or Salah is an issue especially with AFCON. The fact is we could have been a few points clear at the top at this point of the season and then what would have happened? Would we have desperately tried to bring in a replacement then? Maybe we would have done nothing. But it feels like we are hoping the situation works rather than planning to make sure there is no problem. Obviously this would have all had to be done last summer. So there is a part of me that wonders about their desire to win or just be top 4 say.

Anyway on my twitter to the right it says FSGOUT is trending. Is that correct or is it because I just generally look at Liverpool or football related stuff???

[RyanBabel19]

I like a lot of what FSG have done. I fully expect them to sort the Salah contract - but imagine it's a case of brinkmanship at the moment and that we are not gonna cower to player demands etc - but I think we will sort the deal out.

I don't necessarily agree with everything they do and felt they have missed a trick in regards to transfer policy at times. I do think not finding a suitable replacement/subtitute for Mane or Salah is an issue especially with AFCON. The fact is we could have been a few points clear at the top at this point of the season and then what would have happened? Would we have desperately tried to bring in a replacement then? Maybe we would have done nothing. But it feels like we are hoping the situation works rather than planning to make sure there is no problem. Obviously this would have all had to be done last summer. So there is a part of me that wonders about their desire to win or just be top 4 say.

Anyway on my twitter to the right it says FSGOUT is trending. Is that correct or is it because I just generally look at Liverpool or football related stuff???

Its algorithm based stuff because of what you interact with. There are post with that hashtag recently but it's not a top trending hash tag

[Sangria]

Its algorithm based stuff because of what you interact with. There are post with that hashtag recently but it's not a top trending hash tag

So if I've been chatting with Al-555 about the best restaurants to visit on a budget, my twitter feed will trend FSGOUT and #DEATHTOJOHNHENRY?

[scatman]

For me you sign Rice (yes yes WH play him as a 6 but everything about him screams or Bellingham this summer for that midfield 8 role. Milner by all accounts is leaving, and you sell one of Ox or Naby. Wages and incoming fees from say those 2/3 plus Nat Phillips would cover that midfielder. Plus if you're getting rid of Milner and Ox, it's gotta be one of those English boys replacing them

Also agree with shouts of we need a Jota age range attacker signing (no idea who). But whether that means we'd sell Mane/Firmino to get that, remains to be seen.

anyway thats my fantasy/footballl manager rantings for the day.

[Sangria]

For me you sign Rice (yes yes WH play him as a 6 but everything about him screams

I love it when autocorrect completely changes the meaning of a sentence (hover over the emoticon).

[Fromola]

Personally don't think Tsimikas is anywhere near Robertson's level, but that is by the way. Only Jota and Konate are regulars in the side (and that is because Matip is so prone to injury, unsurprising in a player his age). As I said, you need 4-5 more players pushing the first teamers, not 1-2. If tomorrow one of Henderson, Fabinho or Thiago are injured for months, who comes in? Milner (36), Cahmberlain (28) or Keita(26)? Only two of those are in a good age range and none are a good like-for-like replacement. Up front Jota, covers the front three, but after that it is a big drop off; we are panicking because Salah and Mane are gone for a few weeks, what if that was for months? Origi? Minamino? At the back there are riches at CB, but no cover for right back and if Alisson was out for a few months, would it be ok to use Kelleher every week?

All the young players mentioned can fill a gap short term, but none are medium to long term solutions and none are pushing first teamers out of the side; only Jota and Konate are doing that.

The first team is good, but its old, and there is very little competition for places. I don't think that's a positive profile for the squad.

By 2024 Adrian, Matip, Milner,  Thiago, Ox, Mane and Firmino will all be out of contract. Only maybe 1 or 2 of these players will still be here by 2024/25. We need to be investing now in early-mid 20s players to (or elite teenagers like Belingham) to take the baton and bring the average age down.

Obviously by 2024 other late 20s players will then be in their 30s and Virg and Henderson are still under contract till 2025. Time will tell with Salah.

It's just something the club need to manage properly, but it takes good strategy, investment and not trying to get away with doing the bare minimum every year (which has seen the average age creep up). FSG have always been sell to buy so letting a squad age is worrying from that point of view as well. We don't want to be back to the early 90s again as the Klopp reign ends.

[DonkeyWan]

I like a lot of what FSG have done.
I don't necessarily agree with everything they do and felt they have missed a trick in regards to transfer policy at times.
Anyway on my twitter to the right it says FSGOUT is trending. Is that correct or is it because I just generally look at Liverpool or football related stuff???

Ditto.
Ditto.
I think there is still a core of support hoping for a fan takeover that emerges everytime the owners make a mistake (like the ESL, though I am convinced now the only mistake was announcing it too early and under-developed). Personally, a fan takeover fills me with fear, I would take a hard-nosed professional over well-meaining amateurs any day of the week.

[FowlerLegend]

I agree, I have a much more cautious, glass-half-empty mindset for team and squad building, and things rarely turm out too badly, but when even the positive folk are saying we need replacements, then we defintitely need replacements.

I am annoyed nothing is happening this window though, I really hoped to see some new blood blooded for next season. I hate leaving it to the summer and starting next season with a slightly not good enough squad, again.

I too consider myself more cautious, glass half empty on squad building.
I don't think we will do anything this window, hopefully because we have people lined up for the summer.
 I think a couple of players bought for the first team can make an absolute massive difference. If say we bought a midfielder that stopped teams playing through us and gave a platform for the others and a forward that had pace and also offered a real goal threat I think we would be pretty well set.
Elliott looks like he will be class, Gordon potentially too. I just think they are players that offer us something when we have the ball but don't solve our problems when we don't have it.
But if next season we are lining up with a team consisting of Alisson, Konate, Alexander-Arnold, Bellingham/Tchounanemi, Elliott, Jota and another youngster I think we could match anyone in terms of creativity, fitness, intensity etc. 

[Scottymuser]

I disagree on us needing 4-5 and of course if we lost Mane and Salah for months then it would be a problem, but it would be a problem for everyone.

Other than Chelsea and Man City you mean - our direct rivals for the league?  Chelsea lost their two main strikers for months (Werner and Lukaku) and whilst had some drop off, didn't experience as large a drop off that we might if we lost both Mane and Salah for 10+ games - from those 10 games they got 24 points - or 2.4 points per game, easily enough to challenge for the title if that is the "so called blip" - 91 points a season that would get them.  And for City, it's obvious they can handle injuries to 2 main attackers given their strength in depth.