Topic: Emre Can

[classycarra]

Top sides aren't queuing up for him though, are they...? Juventus are seemingly in a one person queue.

And given the club aren't falling over themselves to give in to his demands, you could argue we're sort of half queuing and waiting to see on the off chance we get to the front of the queue because Juve have decided against him.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Isn't it damning with faint praise that when Can is talked up, it's frequently citing only his height.

City want better footballers in their midfield than Can, and can afford to (and will) pay top dollar for more consistent players. And ones who show better signs of being capable of learning and developing.

Not really. Height and aerial ability is a very tangible skill for a pivot midfielder, particularly in this league. I haven't checked the stats but, to my eyes at least, Can was a monster in that regard again on Saturday, especially when they started pumping long second half.

You may well be right on the second sentence. Equally it wouldn't stun me if they were interested.

[classycarra]

Not really. Height and aerial ability is a very tangible skill for a pivot midfielder, particularly in this league. I haven't checked the stats but, to my eyes at least, Can was a monster in that regard again on Saturday, especially when they started pumping long second half.

You may well be right on the second sentence. Equally it wouldn't stun me if they were interested.

True, but his aerial ability isn't really cited because he isn't good in the air. He's half decent at best, if it's a long ball coming straight at him. If he has to attack the ball (whether trying to score or to aggressively compete), he's probably not even half decent. And when he has to mark/disrupt an attacker in the air, he's even worse.

I think on Saturday he got involved in a little (and shortlived) physical battle with Carroll. I don't think he was at all dominant, let alone a monster. Better than usual though, for sure. Would have preferred Lucas or even Alonso there, if we're looking back at recent alternatives.

I would be pretty stunned, I think they've already got a midfielder in Delph who provides depth and versatility but isn't good enough to be a regular starter (and he has the benefit of being left footed, physically up to being a full back, home-grown and capable of concentrating). Would expect him to play five, maybe ten, mostly substitute league appearances for them, if that ever arose

[PoetryInMotion]

If Henderson was free, do you think Juventus, Bayern or City would show any interest?

Bayern are in due to their obvious history with him. Do you think they will play him consistently ahead of Tolisso, Thiago or Vidal? No chance. If he wants to stay in permanent bench (like Reina did), he can go to Bayern.

Juventus will obviously pick Pjanic and Matuidi/Khedira ahead of Can for now, but they're taking a gamble to see if he can take the place of the Matuidi and Khedira in the few years and develop him. As a free transfer, it's the best gamble they can take.

If you think Can has any business as a regular in City midfield, you and I see football in absolute different ways.

Henderson is English, how many foreign sides have wanted British players at the high end of wages that much? Only side I remember is Real Madrid and we know that neither Can, nor Henderson are good enough to play for Real Madrid.

We're clutching at straws here.

[zero zero]

What Bayern interest are we talking about?

Anything concrete or just because Heynckes mentioned Can.

[BabuYagu]

Bayern are in due to their obvious history with him. Do you think they will play him consistently ahead of Tolisso, Thiago or Vidal? No chance. If he wants to stay in permanent bench (like Reina did), he can go to Bayern.

Juventus will obviously pick Pjanic and Matuidi/Khedira ahead of Can for now, but they're taking a gamble to see if he can take the place of the Matuidi and Khedira in the few years and develop him. As a free transfer, it's the best gamble they can take.

If you think Can has any business as a regular in City midfield, you and I see football in absolute different ways.

Henderson is English, how many foreign sides have wanted British players at the high end of wages that much? Only side I remember is Real Madrid and we know that neither Can, nor Henderson are good enough to play for Real Madrid.

We're clutching at straws here.

In terms of Champions League squads, Can counts as a club trained player for Bayern. As Man City have shown, finding home grown players that are useful is tricky. Signing a club trained German international on a free is an easy decision, even if there is no place for him immediately in the side.

I think if Can goes to a high pressing side, he will end up a center back. He just doesn't have the tactical side of his game at the level it needs to be at to be a #6 and doesn't have the physique to play any further forward than that. However, at a side that plays low/mid block, counter attacking football like Man Utd, Chelsea or Atletico then he would be a midfielder you could build a side around. Rafa would build a great side around a player like Can, truth be told. I reckon he would give him that Momo role of roaming destroyer with less tactical framework in his game. Let him play on instinct.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

True, but his aerial ability isn't really cited because he isn't good in the air. He's half decent at best, if it's a long ball coming straight at him. If he has to attack the ball (whether trying to score or to aggressively compete), he's probably not even half decent. And when he has to mark/disrupt an attacker in the air, he's even worse.

I think on Saturday he got involved in a little (and shortlived) physical battle with Carroll. I don't think he was at all dominant, let alone a monster. Better than usual though, for sure. Would have preferred Lucas or even Alonso there, if we're looking back at recent alternatives.

I would be pretty stunned, I think they've already got a midfielder in Delph who provides depth and versatility but isn't good enough to be a regular starter (and he has the benefit of being left footed, physically up to being a full back, home-grown and capable of concentrating). Would expect him to play five, maybe ten, mostly substitute league appearances for them, if that ever arose

A bit like that other lad everyone said was shit anyway who went there? 

We're clutching at straws here.

Indeed, you are. All I see is excuses everywhere for us losing a very talented footballer on the up who we've invested some money and considerable time into for nothing.

[PoetryInMotion]

Except there's absolutely nothing to indicate this has anything to do with playing time.

57 league starts in 75-80 games under Jurgen Klopp.

Only happened due to the combination of below factors.

According to transfermarkt from the start of 2016/17,

Lallana hasn't been available for 28 games,
Henderson was injured for 13 games,
Coutinho wasn't a midfield option last season and has already missed 8 games this season
and finally Milner was not a midfield option last season as he was LB (Milner may or may not have impacted, but all the same).

For me, he is just above Milner in the pecking order and clearly behind all of Coutinho, Lallana, Wijnaldum and Henderson for the midfield spots. Klopp agrees as well. Last season, when all were fit and available, Klopp's primary midfield was Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum with Coutinho playing in the front three and that was the best football our midfield produced in years.

I don't see even a single reason why a few consider him 'miles above everyone except Coutinho', he has more weaknesses than any of them. Good player, sad to lose him if we do, yes, as he was able to cover for a midfield spot quite often with not that much of a reduction in standards and we needed him as one or the other from our rest of midfield gets injured every now and then. But we're well covered next season with Keita coming. I'm not worried quality wise, or depth wise.

I'd have been worried depth wise, if it had been this season that we were losing him. Keeping him when he has refused to sign and running down the contract and helping depth wise this season is not at all a bad decision for me, the actual failure lies in getting him to sign before getting to this stage. Nothing we can't cope with, though.

[PoetryInMotion]

In terms of Champions League squads, Can counts as a club trained player for Bayern. As Man City have shown, finding home grown players that are useful is tricky. Signing a club trained German international on a free is an easy decision, even if there is no place for him immediately in the side.

I think if Can goes to a high pressing side, he will end up a center back. He just doesn't have the tactical side of his game at the level it needs to be at to be a #6 and doesn't have the physique to play any further forward than that. However, at a side that plays low/mid block, counter attacking football like Man Utd, Chelsea or Atletico then he would be a midfielder you could build a side around. Rafa would build a great side around a player like Can, truth be told. I reckon he would give him that Momo role of roaming destroyer with less tactical framework in his game. Let him play on instinct.

Got to agree. His skill sets and style suit a Rafa type side, yes.

He may struggle a bit at Atletico due to their pressing, but they would use his physical presence a lot more than we do. He'd look even better for United or Chelsea, could easily play ahead of Bakayoko.

[PoetryInMotion]

A bit like that other lad everyone said was shit anyway who went there? 

Indeed, you are. All I see is excuses everywhere for us losing a very talented footballer on the up who we've invested some money and considerable time into for nothing.

Which part of my post on the sides that are in for Can for which you replied to is an excuse? There was nothing in that post of mine talking about the money/time that we invested on him, it was completely about the reported interests of Bayern, Juventus and City on Can and a response to whether Henderson would be wanted by those clubs or not (which is not really relevant and ignoring a whole lot of context, and that is exactly what was outlined in my post).

You could constructively respond to the post rather than make a vague accusation, that is if you're interested in a proper discussion.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

True, but his aerial ability isn't really cited because he isn't good in the air. He's half decent at best, if it's a long ball coming straight at him. If he has to attack the ball (whether trying to score or to aggressively compete), he's probably not even half decent. And when he has to mark/disrupt an attacker in the air, he's even worse.

I think on Saturday he got involved in a little (and shortlived) physical battle with Carroll. I don't think he was at all dominant, let alone a monster. Better than usual though, for sure. Would have preferred Lucas or even Alonso there, if we're looking back at recent alternatives.

I would be pretty stunned, I think they've already got a midfielder in Delph who provides depth and versatility but isn't good enough to be a regular starter (and he has the benefit of being left footed, physically up to being a full back, home-grown and capable of concentrating). Would expect him to play five, maybe ten, mostly substitute league appearances for them, if that ever arose

Just to add to this, Can won 4 aerial duels on Saturday, more than any of our players. Only Matip and Firmino won more than 1 fwiw.

I find your first paragraph about him completely baffling. In a defensive sense Emre Can is very good in the air whether it's a free header or he has to compete. The stats back my eyes up on this one. I don't think I've ever seen his miscue a header as laughably badly as Henderson against City when unopposed for example.

Delph is a tidy footballer and has proven himself useful but he's not really competition for them in that number six role. The truth is they don't really have any and have been forced to use Danilo - because of his height? - there once or twice this season. Hence why I don't think it'd be ridiculous for them to be looking at a cheap, younger alternative to Fernandinho who also adds height to a small mix of midfielders. Babu might say Pep isn't interested in height, but I disagree. I don't think he's as interested, but this is a manager who loved Seydou Keita and played Busquets and Alonso - both six foot plus - as his holding midfielders pretty much every week at Barcelona and Bayern.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Only happened due to the combination of below factors.

According to transfermarkt from the start of 2016/17,

Lallana hasn't been available for 28 games,
Henderson was injured for 13 games,
Coutinho wasn't a midfield option last season and has already missed 8 games this season
and finally Milner was not a midfield option last season as he was LB (Milner may or may not have impacted, but all the same).

For me, he is just above Milner in the pecking order and clearly behind all of Coutinho, Lallana, Wijnaldum and Henderson for the midfield spots. Klopp agrees as well. Last season, when all were fit and available, Klopp's primary midfield was Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum with Coutinho playing in the front three and that was the best football our midfield produced in years.

Ifithadntbeenfor etc. Emre Can has had injuries too.

As for the last paragraph, you don't know that Klopp agrees with that. I do know that he has started him in 75-80% of his league matches in charge. I also know that he has chosen Can ahead of Wijnaldum in plenty of games when those four you mention have all been fit. The 6-1 against Watford and 4-2 against Palace are two examples last season. Spartak away & Burnley at home more recently. I also know that he's chosen Can ahead of Henderson in plenty of games. Burnley at home, Maribor home & away recently. Albeit with Henderson I do think it's often with the dual purpose of giving Henderson a rest and Can a partial rest, i.e. not having to undertake as many intensive sprints playing in that deeper role.

[PoetryInMotion]

Ifithadntbeenfor etc. Emre Can has had injuries too.

As for the last paragraph, you don't know that Klopp agrees with that. I do know that he has started him in 75-80% of his league matches in charge. I also know that he has chosen Can ahead of Wijnaldum in plenty of games when those four you mention have all been fit. The 6-1 against Watford and 4-2 against Palace are two examples last season. Spartak away & Burnley at home more recently. I also know that he's chosen Can ahead of Henderson in plenty of games. Burnley at home, Maribor home & away recently. Albeit with Henderson I do think it's often with the dual purpose of giving Henderson a rest and Can a partial rest, i.e. not having to undertake as many intensive sprints playing in that deeper role.

Never denied that Can has started individual games ahead of one of the others. We will see more of it this season, with us having regular midweek fixtures.

But if you look deeper, those were the exceptions rather than the norm, weren't they? Who was the least used midfielder out of the four in the first half of last season when all were fit? It was Can. Who were the regulars? Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum. Let's not revision that period. We can count appearances and minutes until Lallana got injured. Last season, when we were blowing teams away and playing fluent football in the middle, this set of Hendo, Lallana and Wijnaldum were getting high praises and rightly so. I don't remember Can being exclusively noted for that part, where we were looking like genuine title contenders. In individual games, yes he has featured and done well here and there, but he won't be remembered as a big part of that midfield at all.

Minutes clocked in the league by our midfielders last season overall (I'm giving the entire season, including when he started to play regularly later in the season to give Can a better chance)

Can - 2368 mins (missed a month due to injury)

Wijnaldum - 2978 mins
Henderson - 2118 mins (missed 3 months due to injury)
Lallana - 2113 mins (missed approx 3 months due to injury in three different spells)

You would think his minutes tally would be closer to Wijnaldum's than the other two if he was that much of a first choice, as both Henderson and Lallana missed a third of last season due to injury, however that's not the case.

If we only consider the minutes played by Can until the end of Dec (Lallana and Can missed a month due to injury each within this period),

Can - 778 mins

Wijnaldum - 1378 mins
Henderson - 1668 mins
Lallana - 1205 mins

This is a reality check for those who think he has been first choice under Klopp at any of the No. 6 or No. 8 midfield positions. Especially, not at No. 6 ahead of Henderson. The difference in minutes played when all are available is alarming.

On the contrary, Can was a big fixture in the second half of last season. Underlying context - no Lallana for some more time, not Henderson for a long time. As fourth choice for a three man midfield, he was definitely going to play if any of those got injured.

[Doc Red]

Meh. Not overly fussed if he decides to leave.
Not see there is that much he can improve onplaying within this system and as the 3rd cm and occasional dm.
Can see why he'd be interested in playing in a different league and under a different style. Klopp's style doesn't bring the best out of him.
Would have rather we could cash in on his transfer, especially considering our role in developing him to this stage, but it is what it is.

I'm more concerned on who we bring in to replace him, or to play in his position.
Hopefully we keep Coutinho alongside Keita, bring in Lemar, and add a player akin to Jorginho or the Argentine fella in Roma playing dm.

[BabuYagu]

Meh. Not overly fussed if he decides to leave.
Not see there is that much he can improve onplaying within this system and as the 3rd cm and occasional dm.
Can see why he'd be interested in playing in a different league and under a different style. Klopp's style doesn't bring the best out of him.
Would have rather we could cash in on his transfer, especially considering our role in developing him to this stage, but it is what it is.

I'm more concerned on who we bring in to replace him, or to play in his position.
Hopefully we keep Coutinho alongside Keita, bring in Lemar, and add a player akin to Jorginho or the Argentine fella in Roma playing dm.

Keita, Coutinho & Jorginho would be technically the best midfield in the world

I love Jorginho, but suspect he is too small to be an option for Klopp as a #6. Suspect if there was interest in him from Klopp, it would be more for the #8 role than #6. Saul, Fabinho, Weigl - those are my favourite three to get picked up for that deepest #6 role if possible.

[PoetryInMotion]

Meh. Not overly fussed if he decides to leave.
Not see there is that much he can improve onplaying within this system and as the 3rd cm and occasional dm.
Can see why he'd be interested in playing in a different league and under a different style. Klopp's style doesn't bring the best out of him.
Would have rather we could cash in on his transfer, especially considering our role in developing him to this stage, but it is what it is.

I'm more concerned on who we bring in to replace him, or to play in his position.
Hopefully we keep Coutinho alongside Keita, bring in Lemar, and add a player akin to Jorginho or the Argentine fella in Roma playing dm.

I think Keita is that upgrade on Can, and if so adding a Fabinho/Jorginho type player would really step-up our midfield regardless of whether we lose Coutinho or not.

If we lose Coutinho, we can either get Lemar or a replacement, or we can simply get a consistent goal scoring striker and switch to 4-2-3-1. We have options. After a long time, I'm not worried about our midfield at all.

[Coolie High]

Keita, Coutinho & Jorginho would be technically the best midfield in the world

I love Jorginho, but suspect he is too small to be an option for Klopp as a #6. Suspect if there was interest in him from Klopp, it would be more for the #8 role than #6. Saul, Fabinho, Weigl - those are my favourite three to get picked up for that deepest #6 role if possible.

You missed out on Diawara, i think he's about 6ft as well.

[Johnny Foreigner]

Can has now 104 games in prior two seasons and this one. Henderson has 68 and has now pulled out of the high profile internationals. Can is 4 years younger and will improve. Stupiditet of highest order if the club continues to throw money after Henderson and let can leaves. Should have learnt after sturridge

[Sheer Magnetism]

Can has now 104 games in prior two seasons and this one. Henderson has 68 and has now pulled out of the high profile internationals. Can is 4 years younger and will improve. Stupiditet of highest order if the club continues to throw money after Henderson and let can leaves. Should have learnt after sturridge

Why are you so sure he'll improve? He hasn't improved that much since he came to the club and nothing I've seen suggests he's doing so now. He pulls out the odd great moment but he's never been on the same level as 2014 Henderson as a box-to-box midfielder or 2016 Henderson as a holding midfielder. Keita is an upgrade on every level bar height and as someone else pointed out, Can's never been that great in the air for someone of his height. Plus we have Grujic coming up.

[RJH]

Can has now 104 games in prior two seasons and this one. Henderson has 68 and has now pulled out of the high profile internationals. Can is 4 years younger and will improve. Stupiditet of highest order if the club continues to throw money after Henderson and let can leaves. Should have learnt after sturridge

What do you mean by "throw money after Henderson"?
Henderson signed a new contract two and a half years ago - that's before your "prior two seasons and this one".
At that point, he'd missed 13 league games in 4 seasons.

What should the club have done differently with Henderson?

[SlowRap]

Think people are massively undervaluing his leadership qualities haven't seen it mentioned much when describing his skill set, one of our only good leaders if I remember Kolo called him our true captain and that's a man who's played with a good few leaders himself so knows what he's talking about here:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/kolo-toure-emre-can-become-8805001

[CraigDS]

Think people are massively undervaluing his leadership qualities haven't seen it mentioned much when describing his skill set, one of our only good leaders if I remember Kolo called him our true captain and that's a man who's played with a good few leaders himself so knows what he's talking about here:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/kolo-toure-emre-can-become-8805001

He doesn’t say one of our only good leaders, at all.

[El Lobo]

He doesn’t say one of our only good leaders, at all.

 

You made the mistake of thinking that article was relevant to what he posted too eh?

[Lastrador]

He doesn’t say one of our only good leaders, at all.

To be fair to Jacob, I think that he missed a comma after that phrase, although Kolo didn’t say he was our true leader in that article either. 

[BabuYagu]

To be fair to Jacob, I think that he missed a comma after that phrase, although Kolo didn’t say he was our true leader in that article either. 

And yet still more fact based that most of his other posts.

[riismeister]

Ifithadntbeenfor etc. Emre Can has had injuries too.

As for the last paragraph, you don't know that Klopp agrees with that. I do know that he has started him in 75-80% of his league matches in charge. I also know that he has chosen Can ahead of Wijnaldum in plenty of games when those four you mention have all been fit. The 6-1 against Watford and 4-2 against Palace are two examples last season. Spartak away & Burnley at home more recently. I also know that he's chosen Can ahead of Henderson in plenty of games. Burnley at home, Maribor home & away recently. Albeit with Henderson I do think it's often with the dual purpose of giving Henderson a rest and Can a partial rest, i.e. not having to undertake as many intensive sprints playing in that deeper role.

In Klopp's first season Can started 92% of the league games he was available for (not suspended/injured).
Since the summer of 2016 he's started 77% of the league games he's been available for.
Since the summer of 2016 Wijnaldum has started 86% of league games.
Since the summer of 2016 Henderson has started 97% of league games he was available for.
Since the summer of 2016 Lallana has started 87% of league games he was available for.

Can's started a much lower percentage of league games in which he was available after Wijnaldum was signed even when Henderson and Lallana has been injured for almost a full season combined. He's still played a lot, but it seems quite clear that since Wijnaldum's arrival, when all are match fit Can's the one missing out more often.

[BabuYagu]

I would add, in Wijnaldum's first season Klopp seemed to give him a month off at the start after about 4 games as he wasn't in tune to the system yet. After that, he started every game bar one - Hull - which he was clearly rested as it was sandwiched between big games against Chelsea & Spurs. If you ignore that handful of games at the start of the season - which is just new player/new system - it's very clear Gini was first name down when fit.

[Johnny Foreigner]

In Klopp's first season Can started 92% of the league games he was available for (not suspended/injured).
Since the summer of 2016 he's started 77% of the league games he's been available for.
Since the summer of 2016 Wijnaldum has started 86% of league games.
Since the summer of 2016 Henderson has started 97% of league games he was available for.
Since the summer of 2016 Lallana has started 87% of league games he was available for.

Can's started a much lower percentage of league games in which he was available after Wijnaldum was signed even when Henderson and Lallana has been injured for almost a full season combined. He's still played a lot, but it seems quite clear that since Wijnaldum's arrival, when all are match fit Can's the one missing out more often.

And that is probably the reason Can is leaving. Henderson is available 2/3 of what Can is, captain - top earner and always starts whenever he is fit..

Klopp cant really complain about Can leaving, as he has clearly shown the pecking order..

Fair enough, but based on availability and skills, I'd would have taken the captaincy from henderson and sold him to west brom for 20 millions - and kept can, but what do i really know

[Lastrador]

And that is probably the reason Can is leaving. Henderson is available 2/3 of what Can is, captain - top earner and always starts whenever he is fit..

Klopp cant really complain about Can leaving, as he has clearly shown the pecking order..

Fair enough, but based on availability and skills, I'd would have taken the captaincy from henderson and sold him to west brom for 20 millions - and kept can, but what do i really know

You seem to have a good grasp on football simulation games.

[classycarra]

A bit like that other lad everyone said was shit anyway who went there? 

Sorry late to reply, and I'm sure you're just joking, but I was never one of those people. Never tried to rationalise his loss as being fine, in terms of his talent (nor did I think Ibe was secretly actually better or whatever that ridiculous shout was ha)

Sterling, even then, is so much better in his position(s) respectively than Can is currently in any of his. And much more difficult to replace, in terms of scouting similar talent around Europe.

[CraigDS]

So we have offered 160k per week. If he turns that down then ...

Source?

[red_lfc_costello]

Source?

Hopefully a good one because all I could see was that indy fella on twitter said it last night and loads of people have jumped on it. Hopefully he saw it from someone reliable first and there's some truth in it.

[CraigDS]

Indy fucking Kaila. No wonder he put up a vague post without mentioning the source.

[Glen C]

Indy fucking Kaila. No wonder he put up a vague post without mentioning the source.

You mean there are people out there that actually still read what Indy Kaila says?

[jepovic]

And that is probably the reason Can is leaving. Henderson is available 2/3 of what Can is, captain - top earner and always starts whenever he is fit..

Klopp cant really complain about Can leaving, as he has clearly shown the pecking order..

Fair enough, but based on availability and skills, I'd would have taken the captaincy from henderson and sold him to west brom for 20 millions - and kept can, but what do i really know

It's very unlikely that he would play more for Juventus...
He couldn't play much more for us, even if he was first choice. He needs some rest sometimes anyway.

I think the release clause issue makes more sense. Can had one when we bought him after all. He seems happy here, but I think there are a few other clubs that are his real dream clubs. Juve, Bayern perhaps?

[classycarra]

I think the release clause issue makes more sense. Can had one when we bought him after all. He seems happy here, but I think there are a few other clubs that are his real dream clubs. Juve, Bayern perhaps?

Yeah possibly.

Given how we signed him (past behaviour being an indicator of future behaviour etc.), it's not unrealistic he and his agent always intended on him just staying for one contract, or the equivalent amount of time. Maybe he's always intended on travelling, or sampling a few of the top leagues. It's part of why I find it odd that people are criticising the club about something that may never have been possible (they may have deliberately strung the club on, with false reassurances, as Owen did).

I don't mean this to sound like an attack on him - or that I'm saying it's definitely the case - players careers are short and they have to look out for themselves. Just trying to point out a perceived failure of the club in retaining him may actually have been unavoidable

[Dim Glas]

So we have offered 160k per week. If he turns that down then ...

I would be stunned if Liverpool offered him that sort of money.  It'd be a very dangerous route to take.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Indy fucking Kaila. No wonder he put up a vague post without mentioning the source.

Sorry mate, saw it elsewhere and it being from the mirror, but havent actually checked. I have no idea who Indy Kaila is btw

[CraigDS]

Sorry mate, saw it elsewhere and it being from the mirror, but havent actually checked. I have no idea who Indy Kaila is btw

He's some chancer on Twitter mate 

[paulrazor]

He's some chancer on Twitter mate 

thats it in a nutshell