Topic: Hillsborough trial collapses

[Thepooloflife]

Establishment closes ranks and protects its own, once more. Shower of fucking shite the lot of them, I sincerely hope they all get some god awful disease and die a painful and lingering death, the shower of self serving fucking gobshites.

Amen to that.

[4pool]

Thanks for the Si Hughes article. I don't subscribe to The Athletic.

[Rush 82]

My heart goes out to the families.

So the establishment, once again, is saying "fuck you" without the slightest trace of remorse, and worse, peddling old lies that were categorically debunked.


JFT96

Aluta Continua! Some day they will pay.


Edit: Just to add "no duty of candour" - I have no words to describe how I feel about that being uttered with a straight face - not that I should be surprised in a world where Bojo and Trump made blatant lying a virtue.

[Thepooloflife]

Like Burnham said, why weren't the defendants stood in the dock......'..do you think that if you're a young person from this city, you can go to court and not go in the dock - you think that happens, I don't think so...'

Exactly right.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Which was a load of shite. He didn't caveat it in any way, just stated lies as facts.

The other thing that had me fuming was his comment that surely anyone in the position of the SYP would want to put their best face forward. No, you absolute c*nt, they should be telling the fucking truth and giving factual evidence.

Fully agree Alan, the fact that he later tried to use that as an excuse in a written response to someone from RAWK suggests that he realised what he said.

The law is not my area of expertise, but I'd be interested to know what the legal position is when a QC openly and publicly  contradicts the findings of an inquest.

[Thepooloflife]

Fully agree Alan, the fact that he later tried to use that as an excuse in a written response to someone from RAWK suggests that he realised what he said.

The law is not my area of expertise, but I'd be interested to know what the legal position is when a QC openly and publicly  contradicts the findings of an inquest.

I think Andy Burnham said yesterday that they'll be looking into any legal redress over that.

[No666]

Complaints to the Bar Council?

[fredfrop]

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[12C]

We still know a few decent ones...

That we do.
Did you catch Prof Phil Scraton’s response last night on the news?

Very politely ripped Goldberg a new one.
Called him out for “Dishonourable” Behaviour.

[Commie Bobbie]

The times for emails to stuck up Tory ridden c*nts has been and gone.

We did all that back in the day, and although the families got the Unlawful Killing verdict - still the c*nts got away with nothing more but a £6,500 fine. No bastard will ever serve time. That is unacceptable.

The only way forward against the establishment and particularly this corrupt and criminal government is action and disruption.

Even if we cannot get any further with this, the authorities must be given a very clear signal that further cover ups on Grenfell and the impending Covid inquiry will not be tolerated.

[12C]

He can fuck off. Smarmy c*nts first reaction was to have a pop at Burnham. Second was to try to prove how clever he is.

That’s how he sells his shitty book

[Hij]

I will catch up with the entire thread shortly.

It might not help anything, but it has helped me to do something.

I have written the following to my MP. I think we need to look around trying to get the Hillsborough Law back in front of the Commons. It would be good I think if we could engage others across the country to write to their various MPs regarding the Hillsborough Law and try to whip up support possibly via a Government petition to ensure it gets heard.

I wonder if the likes of Spirit of Shankly could help us further this to more people.

Dear Daisy,

I watched on with horror yesterday as it was confirmed that absolutely no-one connected to the worst sports disaster in the UK would face a single second of jail time. Only one of those involved in the proven unlawful killings of 96 men, women and children has been found guilty of any crime.

It appears that the defendants got off (rightfully) on a technicality and that the laws surrounding inquiries currently and back then, are not fit for purpose. Doctoring well over 100 police statements to aid in influencing the decision that Lord Justice Taylor came to in the original Hillsborough inquiry cannot be 'perverting the course of justice' because the inquiry itself didn't have a criminal remit.

This is clearly and unquestionably wrong and unfair. A Hillsborough law has been mooted in the past and I would hope to count on your support for such a bill if it came before the house. This would provide more rights to bereaved families and place a 'duty of candour' on public officials.

Such a bill would ensure that a public servant or official would commit an offence if he or she intentionally or recklessly misled the general public or media or misled court proceedings at any inquiry or investigation.

In 2012, the then Prime Minister of the United Kingdom David Cameron said at the dispatch box after the publishing of the Hillborough Independent Panel report: "The new evidence that we are presented with today makes clear that these families have suffered a double injustice. The injustice of the appalling events - the failure of the state to protect their loved ones and the indefensible wait to get to the truth. And the injustice of the denigration of the deceased - that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths".

I proffer that yesterday the families were dealt a third and crippling triple injustice. The total lack of proper accountability for those that committed offences with impunity despite the overwhelming amount of evidence regarding what ultimately happened before and after that terrible day in 1989 coming to light over the years. A gut wrenching scenario, but one that happened as the day felt like it was engulfed in darkness irrespective.

The spectre of Grenfell looms large. Help demonstrate that the Hillsborough families did not fight the establishment over every blade of grass over the last 3 decades for nothing and please contribute the best way you can in determining that through their clearly unwanted but unrelenting sacrifice, dedication and tenacity, that at the very least everything possible will be enacted so that people across our country that befall tragedy in the future can not possibly be subject to the same subterfuge from those with a duty of care, or of proper conduct in public office with no criminal offence having been committed.

This much is clear. In a fair and just world, doctoring statements to mislead any inquiry involving the deaths of our fellow citizens should clearly and patently be a criminal offence.

We used to sing 'Justice for the 96' passionately on the Kop over the long years since 1989, but other than the truth finally being exposed in black and white in 2012, it appears there won't be any tangible justice incoming. This is a further tragedy.

At the very least, please help ensure that their legacy is the greatest possible chance for justice for others in future.

Justice for Grenfell.

I hope I can count on your support in the House of Commons should anything related to this topic come forward in the future.

Yours,

Tom Higham
Bricket Wood

[12C]

That Si Hughes article was very close to home for me. I know the places mentioned and it really brings home the way that at all junctures, those looking to vilify seek cover in the collective.

The fans, a riot, a mob etc. But what that article does, as so many have before it, is paint a picture of individuals who were parts of families, of neigbourhoods, of groups of friends. Those looking to denigrate overlook the human aspect. It's safer to dehumanise and describe them as a mob, no one challenges that. The naysayers should look at who these people were and ask themselves whether they are really any different than those that they attempt to describe as a rioting mob. They should also acquaint themselves with the facts of the case too, but then again the truth is a much devalued currency after the last  few years both sides of the Atlantic.

"Would you do these things? well what makes you think I would" is perhaps one of the most impactful lines I've ever seen from Tony Evans.

Interesting comment from Yorky too. The slippery bastard (not Yorky)even accused someone off here of not listening properly because what he said on radio was what the police had said, not what he believed.
Why then would you repeat something that has been proven to be untrue?

The slippery bastard as you so eloquently call him had that excuse on auto reply. Changed his bloody tune when I asked him where my statement was and who could possible have “lost” it. Basically shit himself when he realised he was dealing with someone who was there.

[12C]

Well I've complained to the beeb.....yes, for what it's worth. I've also emailed the QC - but, sorry, couldn't help myself and told him what I thought of the bellend. No posh wig is gonna tell me how our brothers and sisters behaved on that day - I was there....where was he ?

Probably in his club

[Thepooloflife]

I will catch up with the entire thread shortly.

It might not help anything, but it has helped me to do something.

I have written the following to my MP. I think we need to look around trying to get the Hillsborough Law back in front of the Commons. It would be good I think if we could engage others across the country to write to their various MPs regarding the Hillsborough Law and try to whip up support possibly via a Government petition to ensure it gets heard.

I wonder if the likes of Spirit of Shankly could help us further this to more people.

Very well written Hij, so well done - and I'll do likewise when I've a minute......as you say, even if it doesn't achieve a thing, at least it helps you believe you're doing something.

[24/7]

That we do.
Did you catch Prof Phil Scraton’s response last night on the news?

Very politely ripped Goldberg a new one.
Called him out for “Dishonourable” Behaviour.

Link?

[Millie]

Link?

Do you subscribe to the Anfield Wrap Jim?  Phil gave a lengthy interview on there today which was tremendous.

[BoRed]

Do you subscribe to the Anfield Wrap Jim?  Phil gave a lengthy interview on there today which was tremendous.

You don't have to subscribe, you can listen to it here: https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2021/05/podcast-phil-scraton-hillsborough-trial/

[Jm55]

Very good discussion with Phil Scraton on the Anfield Wrap which has recently been added for anyone that wants to listening.

Fucking depressing to be honest but as ever Phil is excellent in what he says and in how he explains it, just a shame that he isn’t discussing a better outcome.

[Crosby Nick]

Do you subscribe to the Anfield Wrap Jim?  Phil gave a lengthy interview on there today which was tremendous.

I was going to post about that in the TAW thread. He speaks so well, and so clearly about it all. Definitely recommend listening to it.

[redgriffin73]

Do you subscribe to the Anfield Wrap Jim?  Phil gave a lengthy interview on there today which was tremendous.

Thanks for this, my TAW notifications don't always work so I hadn't seen this one.

[24/7]

You don't have to subscribe, you can listen to it here: https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2021/05/podcast-phil-scraton-hillsborough-trial/

Huge thanks. "They all knew!"

Also worth looking at is the superb summary by Ade Tempany on Twitter. CPS fucked massively re the role of WMP.

And here's the worst part of it, folks....

The CPS were given it all on a fucking plate by RAWK! The connections were drawn up and given to them!!

Let that sink in a moment....

[John C]

Questions

32 years on, how is it for you?
Are you still haunted by it too?
Did you do your best that day?
In your notes what did you say?

Of your career, what became?
Could you face another game?
Into our crowd, did you stare?
Cries of help, where you aware?

To this day, anything to hide?
Did you do your duty with pride?
Lots of questions, I have, I know.
Because I still can't let things go.

As it was all so avoidable you see.
Surely on that, you have to agree.
One final question I have to ask.
Where you honestly up to the task?

[Commie Bobbie]

Huge thanks. "They all knew!"

Also worth looking at is the superb summary by Ade Tempany on Twitter. CPS fucked massively re the role of WMP.

And here's the worst part of it, folks....

The CPS were given it all on a fucking plate by RAWK! The connections were drawn up and given to them!!

Let that sink in a moment....

Beyond fuming.

I didn't have much respect for the justice system before - whatever's left is gone.

[mattD]

It's just grim. I can only say I have the utmost admiration for those carrying on with the good fight, every single one of you.

I just despair about this country I really do.

[TipTopKop]

I'm surprised if anyone's shocked by this. The system looks after its own. It paints the illusion that you are free to protest and express your opinion, but ultimately at the core of it, when it comes to actual actions being taken against those in power you will be outside looking in.

Time and again, from Hillsborough, to Jean Menezes, to Grenfell on and on. Fuck those in power, and fuck their enablers.

JFT96 in this lifetime or the next.

[12C]

Link?

BBC Northhwest tonight.
Don’t know if it is on iPlayer or suchlike.

[BoRed]

Huge thanks. "They all knew!"

Also worth looking at is the superb summary by Ade Tempany on Twitter. CPS fucked massively re the role of WMP.

And here's the worst part of it, folks....

The CPS were given it all on a fucking plate by RAWK! The connections were drawn up and given to them!!

Let that sink in a moment....

The CPS were in on it, no doubt. First let most of them off the hook entirely and convinced us they were going for those that could realistically get convicted, and then did their best to make sure they were all acquitted. They work hand in hand with the police on a daily basis, no way were they going to go against them this time. It's also no coincidence that the only person found guilty was a club official.

[12C]

When the lads were pulling down a hoarding, sergeant.
Did you try to stop them?

Did you try to stop them,
From a making a makeshift stretcher?
When the lads asked you to help,
Did you “fucking help’ or did you “fuck off”?
You were a sergeant, stripes and a staff.
Did you think we were doing it for a laugh?
When you “fucked off”
Did you rush to the scene,
Or did you fuck off to protect the canteen?
You got the stewards and hid upstairs
And wrote your statement,
That made you a hero in your twisted mind,
And made us out vandals, hooligans and drunks.
But we know what you did.
You ran and hid.
You ran from your duty lied about it.
You ran and are running, still running yet
You coward, you liar, South Yorkshire’s best.


Not up to MikeB standard but...

[Speedy Molby]

You don't have to subscribe, you can listen to it here: https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2021/05/podcast-phil-scraton-hillsborough-trial/

That’s a recommended listen, thanks for posting. Phil saying that the context on what the trial was stopped (statements given to a public inquiry and whether they can pervert the course of justice) has been known for years, so why did it even start? Just another 18 months of personal cost to those involved.

[Hij]

Do you subscribe to the Anfield Wrap Jim?  Phil gave a lengthy interview on there today which was tremendous.

He is a fantastic human being. I was fortunate enough to hear him and Margaret Aspinall talk in London while I was doing my dissertation on Hillsborough in 2014. I brought two friends with me and they found it really informative. He has a very forensic way of breaking down everything he is discussing.

The CPS were in on it, no doubt. First let most of them off the hook entirely and convinced us they were going for those that could realistically get convicted, and then did their best to make sure they were all acquitted. They work hand in hand with the police on a daily basis, no way were they going to go against them this time. It's also no coincidence that the only person found guilty was a club official.

In one.

[Hij]

I really think it is imperative to at the very least try to bring the Hillsborough bill back before parliament. I think it is something we could achieve, with collaborative effort.

The key prominence of the argument should be that "Should it be at all legal for Police Officers (potentially at the behest of their superiors) to change 162 statements to misdirect a public inquiry after 96 innocent citizens have died?" - I think that is the best way to bring people onside from different football clubs and people with no interest in football. How can you read that statement and not agree that it is wrong? If that is the law currently, then so be it, but let's attempt to change the law for the future for others.

I totally understand if the families, survivors or others so invested for so many years, don't want to take on this particular fight, but I feel that it is incumbent on the rest of us to mobilise to try and bring this about.  I think the first step is a Government petition on their official website, and then trying to bring about 100,000 signatures. That will be no easy feat, but it is eminently possible.

Andy Burnham has already nodded to the bill he tried to bring before. I am entirely sure we can count on his support.

A key part of it will be the wording of the petition, if anyone is more au fait with the technicalities of how best to represent the argument could help me compose this I would appreciate it.

The essential parts are as Andy Burnham says "As a minimum, we need two things: first, parity of legal funding for bereaved families at inquests where public bodies are involved; second, a legal duty of candour on officials."

I think it is best to base it off that - perhaps with more elaboration on the second point to appeal to peoples (hopeful) just nature.

[Big Bamber]

I really think it is imperative to at the very least try to bring the Hillsborough bill back before parliament. I think it is something we could achieve, with collaborative effort.

The key prominence of the argument should be that "Should it be at all legal for Police Officers (potentially at the behest of their superiors) to change 162 statements to misdirect a public inquiry after 96 innocent citizens have died?" - I think that is the best way to bring people onside from different football clubs and people with no interest in football. How can you read that statement and not agree that it is wrong? If that is the law currently, then so be it, but let's attempt to change the law for the future for others.

I totally understand if the families, survivors or others so invested for so many years, don't want to take on this particular fight, but I feel that it is incumbent on the rest of us to mobilise to try and bring this about.  I think the first step is a Government petition on their official website, and then trying to bring about 100,000 signatures. That will be no easy feat, but it is eminently possible.

Andy Burnham has already nodded to the bill he tried to bring before. I am entirely sure we can count on his support.

A key part of it will be the wording of the petition, if anyone is more au fait with the technicalities of how best to represent the argument could help me compose this I would appreciate it.

The essential parts are as Andy Burnham says "As a minimum, we need two things: first, parity of legal funding for bereaved families at inquests where public bodies are involved; second, a legal duty of candour on officials."

I think it is best to base it off that - perhaps with more elaboration on the second point to appeal to peoples (hopeful) just nature.

I am far from an expert but it seems to me that the legal duty of candour must extend to non-statutory inquiries and to statutory inquiries. In other words, legislation is not required to make an inquiry an exercise in ‘public justice’.

[Hij]

I am far from an expert but it seems to me that the legal duty of candour must extend to non-statutory inquiries and to statutory inquiries. In other words, legislation is not required to make an inquiry an exercise in ‘public justice’.

I believe that this is considered within the previous Hillsborough Bill that Andy Burnham tried to bring previously. But I am also far from an expert.

In any case, I have created a petition here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/587419/sponsors/new?token=hLrziqepV8-u5Y6Pg2sV

It needs 5 signatures to go live, so I can always ditch and create a new one tomorrow morning. I think it is imperative we strike as soon as possible.

Edit: It is incredulous that such blatant indiscretion and clear intent to manipulate an inquiry can be deemed legal. The argument may not help the current situation, but the door on this conduct should clearly be closed in future.

[Hij]

I need 5 to get this off the ground and share more widely, so please if you have 2 minutes, sign it and click the email in your signature: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/587419/sponsors/new?token=hLrziqepV8-u5Y6Pg2sV

Thank you.

[Ghost Town]

When the lads were pulling down a hoarding, sergeant.
Did you try to stop them?

Did you try to stop them,
From a making a makeshift stretcher?
When the lads asked you to help,
Did you “fucking help’ or did you “fuck off”?
You were a sergeant, stripes and a staff.
Did you think we were doing it for a laugh?
When you “fucked off”
Did you rush to the scene,
Or did you fuck off to protect the canteen?
You got the stewards and hid upstairs
And wrote your statement,
That made you a hero in your twisted mind,
And made us out vandals, hooligans and drunks.
But we know what you did.
You ran and hid.
You ran from your duty lied about it.
You ran and are running, still running yet
You coward, you liar, South Yorkshire’s best.


Not up to MikeB standard but...

Your standard is very high

[kavah]

I need 5 to get this off the ground and share more widely, so please if you have 2 minutes, sign it and click the email in your signature: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/587419/sponsors/new?token=hLrziqepV8-u5Y6Pg2sV

Thank you.

Done Hij

[Zeb]

Another here Hij.

[24/7]

+1

[24/7]

Needed an outlet - I've always been inspired by Mike - not anywhere close to his standard - but it helps....

------------------

Our time.

Hey busy, hiding behind your professional body,
Do you deny that your work that day was more than a bit shoddy?
Was it ok to test a 10 year old for lager or voddy
While yer boss was taking a break, a swift half and sneaky hot toddy?

When you stood there on that halfway line
Did you think all along that you would be just fine?
Did you know Anne Williams would run "out of time"
Did you believe that none of you had committed a crime?

When you were twisting words to fit your agenda
Were you feeling smug about all your little addenda,
Making it look like your lot were all caring and tender
While we were portrayed as rioters on a bender?

In court, did you sit there feeling all secure
Knowing you wouldn't be called up to answer for
All the lies we despise? Cos we knew for sure
That the blame at that game and beyond is behind YOUR door!

We never trusted the courts - cos the law is an ass
I'd use much stronger words but don't wanna be too crass
But for 5 years we've been gagged, yet yer man has the brass
Balls to stand before the world and repeat lies en masse.

Do you think this is over, should we stand down and bow low
To the crown, to the state, should we bend our knees so?
Get to fuck, like we'll do that, it's time now to show
To you, yer mates in power, to the press, to everyone just what we know.

No justice? No peace! Watch that hill boys, we will climb.
We've been patient and dignified, yet you lied, every fuckin time!
We will speak the unspoken truth about your insidious crime.
Now it's our turn. Sit back. Be exposed. Feel the noise.
It's OUR time.