Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1450414 times)

Online oldfordie

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #600 on: September 21, 2018, 12:04:36 am »
She's not getting an internal border through parliament, is she? Even if the DUP kicking off isn't enough, half and more of the Conservative and Unionist party will head into the other lobby. If I recall correctly, it wouldn't actually be within the law to do that anyway with the ERG amendment to block the option off. Which leaves 'Norway', and that would require Labour to support her. Which is possible, but it would likely need a big chunk of the PLP to walk the plank to vote with her? An election solves little - there's nothing in the polls to suggest either party will achieve a substantial majority, and Labour promising "we can negotiate it better" still ends up at the same place we're at with issues around being in the single market. I think a good question to ask, and it's uncomfortable, is 'Will a referendum change those political positions'?
Yeah, now you mention it you're right I remember the amendment being put forward to make the UK/Irish border illegal, think it was Rees-Mogg cutting down our options.
Am trying to work out where we go from here and I thought that maybe a option May choses even if I don't want it to happen.
There's not much point in another GE while Labour are arguing they will sort out the NI border problem and sort this mess out. they tell us what they want to do, now tell us how you will do it.
The time has come to be honest not continue the Brexit fantasy of getting a great deal while respecting why people voted leave.
If the referendum is a vote on our final position then that's what it is, it's not another referendum to get what we want, it's another referendum to decide if people got what they want.
Leave are going to be short of arguments to justify leaving the EU with no deal, they will try and make the referendum into a vote on the future of our democracy blah blah blah.
The last 2 yrs has shown us how much respect our politicians have for our democracy, they crapped on it many times. they tried to stop our Parliament having any say on Brexit, threatened the HOL, I still remember May sitting in the HOL on the first big vote giving everyone the evil eye.
Vote leave committing a criminal offence when breaking election campaign rules.
The referendum being treated as a mandate rather than advisory. if vote leave broke election laws then that's a abuse of our democracy and the courts may stop Brexit anyway but the point is they abused our democracy. they don't give a shit about democracy only Brexit.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #601 on: September 21, 2018, 12:14:06 am »
So Corbyn is against another Eu vote but is open to another indyref.


The twat only cares about himself and his own personal glory,he doesn't give a flying about the actual country.


Quote
Jeremy Corbyn has said he is not ruling out allowing a second Scottish independence referendum to be held if he becomes prime minister.

The Labour leader said he would "decide at the time" what to do if Nicola Sturgeon asked for his consent.

But he said his party does not want a referendum, and would be "very clear on why we don't think it's a good idea".

Labour gave a "cast iron guarantee" before the last Holyrood election that it would oppose a referendum.

Quote
The Labour leader repeated his party's position that it would vote down any "bad deal" on Brexit, and "certainly vote down a no deal".

But he said a failure by the government to get its final Brexit plan approved by parliament should trigger a general election rather than another referendum on EU membership.

He said Labour would "negotiate immediately with Brussels on a trade and a customs arrangement with the European Union so that we have that close relationship" if it won the election.

Mr Corbyn added: "We've made it very clear we understand and respect the results of the referendum, but we also respect the fact that people need to keep jobs, we need to keep trade, we need to keep rights and we need to be part of the European system of human rights."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45585737


He is a fucking snake.
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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #602 on: September 21, 2018, 12:24:06 am »
So Corbyn is against another Eu vote but is open to another indyref.


The twat only cares about himself and his own personal glory,he doesn't give a flying about the actual country.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45585737


He is a fucking snake.



I've had enough of the twat. But let's not derail the thread.

Some think he's the bees knees and many people I know think he's a total c*nt.

Probably somewhere in the middle, but I don't think anyone will thank him for the Brexit that he's inflicted on us.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #603 on: September 21, 2018, 01:04:24 am »
So Corbyn is against another Eu vote but is open to another indyref.


The twat only cares about himself and his own personal glory,he doesn't give a flying about the actual country.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45585737


He is a fucking snake.

So he's willing to grant a Scottish referendum that his party doesn't support, but is firmly against another EU referendum which his party does support (if you look at the polls)?

Also, why is it OK for Corbyn to comment in contradiction to Scottish Labour policy (as highlighted in the BBC article and supported by the fact not one Labour MSP voted in favour of the 2nd indy ref motion that was passed last year - http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=10869&mode=pdf (pages 43/44) but when a pro-EU Labour MP speaks out in favour of Single Market membership and/or a People's Vote, they're "metropolitan elitists" showing contempt for the will of Labour heartlands, splitter Blairites etc?

Offline Zeb

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #604 on: September 21, 2018, 01:10:16 am »
Yeah, now you mention it you're right I remember the amendment being put forward to make the UK/Irish border illegal, think it was Rees-Mogg cutting down our options.
Am trying to work out where we go from here and I thought that maybe a option May choses even if I don't want it to happen.
There's not much point in another GE while Labour are arguing they will sort out the NI border problem and sort this mess out. they tell us what they want to do, now tell us how you will do it.
The time has come to be honest not continue the Brexit fantasy of getting a great deal while respecting why people voted leave.
If the referendum is a vote on our final position then that's what it is, it's not another referendum to get what we want, it's another referendum to decide if people got what they want.
Leave are going to be short of arguments to justify leaving the EU with no deal, they will try and make the referendum into a vote on the future of our democracy blah blah blah.
The last 2 yrs has shown us how much respect our politicians have for our democracy, they crapped on it many times. they tried to stop our Parliament having any say on Brexit, threatened the HOL, I still remember May sitting in the HOL on the first big vote giving everyone the evil eye.
Vote leave committing a criminal offence when breaking election campaign rules.
The referendum being treated as a mandate rather than advisory. if vote leave broke election laws then that's a abuse of our democracy and the courts may stop Brexit anyway but the point is they abused our democracy. they don't give a shit about democracy only Brexit.

Thing with it being an advisory referendum is that it also removes any remedy in a court action because at no point has the government had to follow what the referendum said. Same goes for any subsequent referendums held on those terms.

Tories are trapped and being pulled apart. But Labour refusing to take a clear position also denies any sensible resolution to things. Point I was making on referendums there was really about whether a second referendum is just about getting round Labour's refusal to oppose on the issue. And what changes when you present two parties, equally incapable - for different reasons - of making hard political choices, with the results of another advisory referendum?
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Online oldfordie

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #605 on: September 21, 2018, 02:24:06 am »
Thing with it being an advisory referendum is that it also removes any remedy in a court action because at no point has the government had to follow what the referendum said. Same goes for any subsequent referendums held on those terms.

Tories are trapped and being pulled apart. But Labour refusing to take a clear position also denies any sensible resolution to things. Point I was making on referendums there was really about whether a second referendum is just about getting round Labour's refusal to oppose on the issue. And what changes when you present two parties, equally incapable - for different reasons - of making hard political choices, with the results of another advisory referendum?
Bit late to look up the legal argument but they do make a good case, it may have been advisory but it was not treated as advisory, Cameron saying, the government will act on this decision. anyone who argued the result of the referendum was advisory would have been lynched, if it's advisory and we know it's a disastrous decision then why aren't the government saying there is no such thing as the will of the people, the referendum was advisory and we now know it's going to lead to economic disaster so lets stay as we are and remain in the EU. why are both party's arguing we must respect the result of the referendum if it was advisory.
I wouldn't mind but a referendum is actually a get out of jail card for Labour, do they really want to inherit this shit.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 02:41:09 am by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #606 on: September 21, 2018, 02:30:50 am »
Listening to Corbyn he only cares about having a GE and thinks the best way to get that is to shirk all responsibility,he is happy with no deal if it means he could get one.

Country and hypocrisy be damned.
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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #607 on: September 21, 2018, 05:40:20 am »
Listening to Corbyn he only cares about having a GE and thinks the best way to get that is to shirk all responsibility,he is happy with no deal if it means he could get one.

Country and hypocrisy be damned.

If Corbyn wants a General Election rather than a referendum to decide Brexit then

a) It would help to have a clear idea where Labour stands.
b) Labour would need to campaign on Europe as a single issue party
c) The Tories would need to call an election before we leave.

It’s a shit house move.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #608 on: September 21, 2018, 09:47:37 am »
Been finding Stephen Bush a good read. Here's his brief morning summary for subscribers. Nail. Head. Etc.

Quote
Good morning. Chequers is dead. (Again.) European heads of government have declared Theresa May's proposals dead in the water in no uncertain terms. (Also, again.)

The only question that mattered about Chequers was always whether May regarded it as a final offer or a direction of travel that would be further amended to return to Parliament as something that looked a bit like Chequers, provided you were willing to squint a bit.

What drove the more vituperative tone of yesterday's attacks on May's plan from Donald Tusk, Emmanuel Macron et. al was that the PM made it clear that she regards Chequers as a final offer. As I explain in the i, it's not only Chequers that lies slain: the big delusion that the United Kingdom can get its way in Europe via divide and rule, and that a better deal could be reached by going around Michel Barnier have also been killed off.

So what happens next? The calculation that most of the EU27 are making is that the British negotiating position is so weak that the United Kingdom can be shunted into an EEA-type single market and customs union relationship which resolves the Irish border and maintains the current level of market access.

Their analysis - and indeed the analysis that many in British business have comforted themselves with - is that in a head-on collision, there are two types of participants: swerving participants, who cannot survive a collision so swerve to avoid one, and non-swerving participants, who can survive and therefore keep on going forward. The British motorbike can't survive the head-on collision with the monster lorry that is the EU27, so the government will, at the last, pull out of the way. That's the theory anyway.

The problem is that much of the British political elite doesn't accept the premise: they don't think this a collision between a motorbike and a monster lorry. They see it as a collision between two vehicles of equal weight.

That's one reason why no deal is still the most likely outcome barring a major shift in the balance of political forces here at home, which even another election may not provide.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #609 on: September 21, 2018, 10:03:09 am »
If Corbyn wants a General Election rather than a referendum to decide Brexit then

a) It would help to have a clear idea where Labour stands.
b) Labour would need to campaign on Europe as a single issue party
c) The Tories would need to call an election before we leave.

It’s a shit house move.


Yes it is.
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Offline SlowRap

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #610 on: September 21, 2018, 10:07:39 am »
If Corbyn wants a General Election rather than a referendum to decide Brexit then

a) It would help to have a clear idea where Labour stands.
b) Labour would need to campaign on Europe as a single issue party
c) The Tories would need to call an election before we leave.

It’s a shit house move.
Wouldn't make sense to release a manifesto before the election is called, why would you reveal your hand?
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #611 on: September 21, 2018, 10:07:57 am »
Labour’s view of Theresa May’s Salzburg reversal? We don’t know. The BBC say that Labour couldn’t find anyone to oppose Iain Duncan Smith on the Today programme this morning. It’s a joke party.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline SlowRap

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #612 on: September 21, 2018, 10:10:19 am »
Labour’s view of Theresa May’s Salzburg reversal? We don’t know. The BBC say that Labour couldn’t find anyone to oppose Iain Duncan Smith on the Today programme this morning. It’s a joke party.
Do feel free to create your own party, that's the beauty of democracy
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #613 on: September 21, 2018, 10:11:54 am »
Labour’s view of Theresa May’s Salzburg reversal? We don’t know. The BBC say that Labour couldn’t find anyone to oppose Iain Duncan Smith on the Today programme this morning. It’s a joke party.


It's a Corbyn vanity project,fuck the rest of us.
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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #614 on: September 21, 2018, 10:23:31 am »
Is there a risk/hope of May being booted out of #10 at the party conference? The delay that would entail would mean there is zero chance of any deal being agreed in time.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline filopastry

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #615 on: September 21, 2018, 10:28:16 am »
Is there a risk/hope of May being booted out of #10 at the party conference? The delay that would entail would mean there is zero chance of any deal being agreed in time.

Realistically I don't think a majority of Tory MPs will vote to get rid of her, because they know the members are likely to prefer a Brexit nutter as next leader assuming one gets to the final 2 in any leadership contest, the average Tory MP is a lot more moderate on Brexit than the average Tory member is.

Offline Iska

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #616 on: September 21, 2018, 11:01:03 am »
Wouldn't make sense to release a manifesto before the election is called, why would you reveal your hand?
To look like a serious outfit more than three weeks before polling day maybe?  They’re actually behind in the polls to the most shambolic government I can remember, even if they do get their election they’re probably not winning it.
Bit late to look up the legal argument but they do make a good case, it may have been advisory but it was not treated as advisory
There’s no way the courts are going to stop brexit, it’s been approved by an Act of Parliament and the courts can’t do anything about that.

Offline rob1966

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #617 on: September 21, 2018, 11:11:14 am »
Wouldn't make sense to release a manifesto before the election is called, why would you reveal your hand?

There's no way I'm voting Labour again, unless they come out and state the will stop Brexit in a manifesto. I don't mind if they say they will begin working on a possible EU exit strategy, that protects the UK economy, while we get the plan in place and that if they can PROVE we will be better off then we leave. I know they cannot achieve this, but it at least gives an olive branch to the leavers and keeps them quiet until they die.
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Offline SlowRap

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #618 on: September 21, 2018, 11:12:43 am »
To look like a serious outfit more than three weeks before polling day maybe?  They’re actually behind in the polls to the most shambolic government I can remember, even if they do get their election they’re probably not winning it.
The fact that Murdoch's msm empire has been working overtime in order to slander Corbyn should show you how seriously they're taking it.
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

Offline red1977

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #619 on: September 21, 2018, 11:26:59 am »
With this shite looming large now and a no deal looking a very real prospect I am getting a bit panicky. I am a British expat living in Amsterdam and a homeowner, In the case of No Deal, I don't know what the fuck will happen!!. I have read one or two of articles saying it "should be ok, maybe etc" but nothing more than that. The principal agreement that those with residency before March 2019 will be able to keep the same rights will no longer be applicable. Any ex-pat RAWKites have any sort of up to date info they can share on this scenario? I doubt it, but there are some excellent posts in here and someone might have a clue :-) cheers.

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #620 on: September 21, 2018, 11:35:21 am »
The fact that Murdoch's msm empire has been working overtime in order to slander Corbyn should show you how seriously they're taking it.
bar the ridiculous spy gate story how have they slandered him? Damn near all of it is uncomfortable truths for his supporters who built him up as some kind of deity

Online oldfordie

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #621 on: September 21, 2018, 11:40:55 am »
To look like a serious outfit more than three weeks before polling day maybe?  They’re actually behind in the polls to the most shambolic government I can remember, even if they do get their election they’re probably not winning it.There’s no way the courts are going to stop brexit, it’s been approved by an Act of Parliament and the courts can’t do anything about that.
The courts do have the power to nullify election results, they've done this in the past when electoral campaign rules have been broken.
If the referendum was legally binding then this would be a formality, the triggering of Art 50 and the referendum result would be quashed. the argument the courts have to decide is  was the referendum result treated as advisory. Cameron said the government would implement the result of the referendum, MPs argued we have to trigger art 50 as we must respect the result of the referendum. both party's argue we must respect the result of the referendum.
Does anyone think our MPs treated the referendum result as advisory, I don't.
We have a crazy situation and it's typical when it comes to brexit.
Leave will be arguing the referendum result was advisory in the courts yet they will be publicly arguing we must respect the referendum result, Cameron said the government would implement brexit so it wasn't advisory.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline SlowRap

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #622 on: September 21, 2018, 11:54:15 am »
bar the ridiculous spy gate story how have they slandered him? Damn near all of it is uncomfortable truths for his supporters who built him up as some kind of deity
Stealing sandwiches that were meant for veterans, riding a communist bike, jigging his way to the Cenotaph, being blamed for actions of his great great grandfather some more compiled (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/11-ridiculous-claims-made-labour-12032050)

A more detailed/serious breakdown;

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communications/research/research-projects/representations-of-jeremy-corbyn
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

Offline Iska

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #623 on: September 21, 2018, 11:55:19 am »
With this shite looming large now and a no deal looking a very real prospect I am getting a bit panicky. I am a British expat living in Amsterdam and a homeowner, In the case of No Deal, I don't know what the fuck will happen!!. I have read one or two of articles saying it "should be ok, maybe etc" but nothing more than that. The principal agreement that those with residency before March 2019 will be able to keep the same rights will no longer be applicable. Any ex-pat RAWKites have any sort of up to date info they can share on this scenario? I doubt it, but there are some excellent posts in here and someone might have a clue :-) cheers.
Not an expat, but as brexit is so up-in-the-air I’d say the thing for you to look at is whether you can acquire Dutch nationality.  This suggests it takes five years’ residence.  If you can get that, you’ll be sorted.  Alternatively, if you’re married to an EU citizen (not Dutch or British) you could have a right to live in the Netherlands that way.
We’re in danger of pre-arguing the case that you’re pinning your hopes on, but I’d say that even if you’re right about everything, Parliament still approved it and the courts can’t undo that, only Parliament can.  As for triggering Article 50, that’s high foreign policy and the courts just don’t get involved in scrutinising that sort of decision.  The courts might agree with all that you say about the background, but they’re not going to go further than that.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #624 on: September 21, 2018, 11:59:58 am »
I wish the EU would also publicly slap down Labour's "new single market relationship" idea, which is Chequers' "common rule book" rebranded.

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #625 on: September 21, 2018, 12:28:42 pm »
Do feel free to create your own party, that's the beauty of democracy

I think this might happen. Certainly there's now a gap in British politics for a modern forward-thinking European orientated democratic socialist party,
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline fudge

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #626 on: September 21, 2018, 12:33:43 pm »
Labour’s view of Theresa May’s Salzburg reversal? We don’t know. The BBC say that Labour couldn’t find anyone to oppose Iain Duncan Smith on the Today programme this morning. It’s a joke party.
Saw that, some foreign secretary from Poland dragged onto the screen by Gotomeeting, hardly evens things up.

Even if he did still summarise it better than anyone from the official parties
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Online oldfordie

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #627 on: September 21, 2018, 12:33:49 pm »

.We’re in danger of pre-arguing the case that you’re pinning your hopes on, but I’d say that even if you’re right about everything, Parliament still approved it and the courts can’t undo that, only Parliament can.  As for triggering Article 50, that’s high foreign policy and the courts just don’t get involved in scrutinising that sort of decision.  The courts might agree with all that you say about the background, but they’re not going to go further than that.
I have no idea if the courts will make the triggering of ART 50 invalid but the point we are discussing now is do they have the power to do this, yes they do, the problem is this law only applies to legally binding votes, the courts are being asked to rule on whether our politicians treated the result as advisory.

Facts recently revealed since the Prime Minister exercised her power under s. 1
of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017(“the 2017 Act”) to
notify the European Union (“EU”) of the UK’s intention to leave the EU
show that the 2016 referendum (“the Referendum”) on whether the UK should remain a
member of the European Union (“the EU”) was vitiated by illegality and/or
unlawful misconduct.  More particularly, the Electoral Commission has recently
found (to the criminal standard of proof) that serious offences were committed
by the designated campaign for leaving the EU and by others, in breach of the
statutory framework established by Parliament for the Referendum.
3.Therefore, the Prime Minister’s decision that the UK should with
draw from the EU  (“the Decision”) and the notification of that decision (“the Notification”),
was premised on a fundamental error of fact and was not made in accordance with
the UK’s constitutional requirements as required by Article 50 of the Treaty on
European Union ("TEU") and/or are vitiated by those matters

GROUNDS
(1)
The Prime Minister’s Decision and Notification under Section 1(1) of the
2017  Act  were  not,  or  should  not  be  treated  as,  lawful  and/or  in
accordance with the UK’s constitutional requirements.
(2)
They  are  vitiated  by  conduct  which  would  fall  within  the  definition  of
‘corrupt and illegal practices’in the Representation of the People Act 1983
and similar legislation, which the Electoral Commission has found to have
taken place, to the criminal standard of proof, in breach of the statutory
requirements established by and under the Referendum Act
2015, as well as   other   conduct,   including   that   identified   by   the   Information
Commissioner, regarding personal data.
(3)
The  Referendum  in  2016  was  advisory  or  consultative  (as  opposed  to
binding) and the Decision and Notification are vitiated:
(a)
by   depending   solely   upon   the   flawed   consultation   in   the
Referendum;
4)
By reason of the aforesaid conduct, it is irrational for the Prime Minister to
treat  as  binding  the  result  of a  Referendum  which,  had  it  been  binding,
would be void,and/or the result of which may have been affected thereby.
Alternatively,  to do  so  is  not  lawful  or  in  accordance  with  the  UK’s
constitutional  requirements(including  section  6  of  the  HRA  and  A3P1,
below).  Parliament  should  not  be  taken  to  have  disapplied  principles  of
legality  and  constitutionality  in  conferring  the  said  power  on
the  Prime Minister.
7.
The basis of the
Claimants
’ claim is as follows
:
-
(1)
Article 50 TEU provides
the mechanism in EU law for a Member State to withdraw  from  the  EU  and  for  the  EU  Treaties  to  cease  to  apply  to  that State. Article 50
1.  Any  Member  State  may  decide  to  withdraw  from  the
Union   in   accordance   with   its   own   constitutional
requirements.
(8)
As  Richard  Mawrey  QC,  sitting  as  the  Election  Commissioner,  stated  in
Erlam v Rahman
[2015] EWHC 1215
(at [20]):
“...If a candidate is elected in breach of the rules for elections
laid down in  the legislation, then he cannot be said to have
been  'democratically  elected'.  In  elections,  as  in  sport,  those
who   win   by   cheating   have   not   properly   won   and   are
disqualified. Nor is it of any avail  for the candidate to say 'I
would   have   won   anyway'   because   cheating   leads   to disqualification whether it was necessary for the victory or not.
In recent election cases, for example, it has been proved that
candidates   were   elected   by   the   use   of   hundreds   (in
Birmingham,   thousands)   of   forged   votes:   would   anyone
seriously     claim     that     those     candidates     had     been
'democratically elected'?”
http://www.croftsolicitors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/239484-Grounds-for-Judicial-Review-and-Statement-of-Facts.pdf

« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 12:38:10 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline fudge

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #628 on: September 21, 2018, 12:36:35 pm »
With this shite looming large now and a no deal looking a very real prospect I am getting a bit panicky. I am a British expat living in Amsterdam and a homeowner, In the case of No Deal, I don't know what the fuck will happen!!. I have read one or two of articles saying it "should be ok, maybe etc" but nothing more than that. The principal agreement that those with residency before March 2019 will be able to keep the same rights will no longer be applicable. Any ex-pat RAWKites have any sort of up to date info they can share on this scenario? I doubt it, but there are some excellent posts in here and someone might have a clue :-) cheers.
You made your choice when you left this sceptred isle. Quite why anyone would want to leave a country chosen by god with money trees in every field and unicorns frollicking around them is beyond me
Rubber Dinghy Rapids....

Offline Zeb

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #629 on: September 21, 2018, 12:42:07 pm »
With this shite looming large now and a no deal looking a very real prospect I am getting a bit panicky. I am a British expat living in Amsterdam and a homeowner, In the case of No Deal, I don't know what the fuck will happen!!. I have read one or two of articles saying it "should be ok, maybe etc" but nothing more than that. The principal agreement that those with residency before March 2019 will be able to keep the same rights will no longer be applicable. Any ex-pat RAWKites have any sort of up to date info they can share on this scenario? I doubt it, but there are some excellent posts in here and someone might have a clue :-) cheers.

If you're on twatter mate, there's a group which is campaigning about it and may have decent info: https://twitter.com/BritishInEurope

They're asking for Britain and the EU to ringfence rights of citizens whatever happens. (Can't vouch or anything for group, just know of it from other pro-Remain groups.)
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Robinred

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #630 on: September 21, 2018, 12:46:53 pm »
Stealing sandwiches that were meant for veterans, riding a communist bike, jigging his way to the Cenotaph, being blamed for actions of his great great grandfather some more compiled (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/11-ridiculous-claims-made-labour-12032050)

A more detailed/serious breakdown;

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communications/research/research-projects/representations-of-jeremy-corbyn

I think you’re right - the Tory supporting newspapers, that’s the majority, are genuinely afraid of a Corbyn - led Labour Government. I think you’re right that they use misinformation, occasional downright lies and in general use every dirty journalistic trick to paint him in the worst light possible.

That in itself is despicable. It’s worth remembering that former Labour leaders (remember the Tony Blair’s ‘eyes’ posters?) have also had to put up with unfair media coverage. Yet none of this constitutes a sound reason to support his leadership of the Labour Party. His performance as leader, but specifically on Brexit, is what any sensible and informed Labour Party supporter, or for that matter, floating voter, should judge him on.

In the view of this observer, he has failed abysmally to meet the requirements.
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline Trada

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #631 on: September 21, 2018, 01:00:51 pm »

Faisal Islam
‏Verified account @faisalislam
1m1 minute ago

PM Downing St podium statement at 1345 to update nation on Brexit negotiations
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 01:03:55 pm by Trada »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #632 on: September 21, 2018, 01:11:48 pm »
Faisal Islam
‏Verified account @faisalislam
1m1 minute ago

PM Downing St podium statement at 1345 to update nation on Brexit negotiations


More Chequers cheerleading no doubt.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Online oldfordie

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #633 on: September 21, 2018, 01:28:24 pm »
More Chequers cheerleading no doubt.
No doubt but why call a press conference outside no 10 just to say that.
If this is about Brexit then maybe she's going to double down on her Chequers deal, the EU have to compromise, it's take it or leave it now.

It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Zend...en the clowns

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #634 on: September 21, 2018, 01:37:10 pm »
Faisal Islam
‏Verified account @faisalislam
1m1 minute ago

PM Downing St podium statement at 1345 to update nation on Brexit negotiations


It feels bigger than just a Chequers cheer leading conference.

Inside Number 10, lecturn speech, BBC only inside...
He posts in the day, he posts in the niiiiiiggghht,
That Zend...en the clowns, his timings just right.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #635 on: September 21, 2018, 01:43:47 pm »
So what do we feel she is going to say, take it or leave it? It's being rumoured its going to be delayed as there is a power cut inside.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 01:47:10 pm by jillc »
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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #636 on: September 21, 2018, 01:49:19 pm »
So what do we feel she is going to say, take it or leave it? It's being rumoured its going to be delayed as there is a power cut inside.

She had a grand on West Ham to win at the weekend and she's quitting with her winnings?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Zend...en the clowns

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #637 on: September 21, 2018, 01:49:24 pm »
Power cut in the room that she's meant to be broadcasting from hahahhaa

a giant brexit fuck up of a metaphor there
He posts in the day, he posts in the niiiiiiggghht,
That Zend...en the clowns, his timings just right.

Offline Trada

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #638 on: September 21, 2018, 01:51:03 pm »
Power cut in the room that she's meant to be broadcasting from hahahhaa

a giant brexit fuck up of a metaphor there

I blame Russian hackers
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Everybody's gone to the Brexit
« Reply #639 on: September 21, 2018, 01:51:18 pm »
So what do we feel she is going to say, take it or leave it? It's being rumoured its going to be delayed as there is a power cut inside.
:) Yes there's definitely a power problem inside no10.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis