Topic: Roy Evans: 'Liverpool are a fair bit behind top four'

[CHOPPER]

Why do people think that Kenny is somehow the messiah, even he knows that for us to be as successful as he was for this club we need a few players like him in the team, theres only so much you can do from the sidelines. He will do well but we need perspective.

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

[Twelfth Man]

Why do people think that Kenny is somehow the messiah, even he knows that for us to be as successful as he was for this club we need a few players like him in the team, theres only so much you can do from the sidelines.

Player's like Kenny Dalglish possibly come around once in a generation. Also Adam I presume was bought precisely because KK sees a bit of him in his passing vision.

[Golyo]

I am looking forward to an exciting season. And I want to see some nice pass and move.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Kenny has instilled confience in the team no doubt about that and that wont change next season.Im sure Kenny will play to win it of course he will and he will honestly believe it as well.

It also depends on the indivdual fan , some are wildly optimistic and some are the other way , but personally i think its too soon to be talking about titles , of course i would be delighted if im proved wrong.Like you say 4th would be progress and i think we will get that , overtaking Arsenal.

I just think there has been times in the last 20 years when we've had the ability but lacked belief. I'm not for one minute saying we are going to win the league - I'm saying that if one season we are going to do it, then we have to believe we can win it. We have to believe now and see where that takes us.

Deservedly so, United won the league last season. They weren't good. In fact, based on play over the 3 games, we probably had the better of the play. We were better than Chelsea in both games. We probably edged the two games versus the Arse and City only tonked us away because of shite tactics.

The longer we believe we are behind these teams the longer we will remain there.

Just a question. In 'x' number of years we finish 2nd behind say Chelsea and a point in front of ManUre.  Chelsea spend £60m, United spend £60m and we spend £30m that following summer. Does that give us grounds for accepting 3rd?

[Tomo!]

Hmmm 'short of a bit of class against the better teams'.

Our results against Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City (placed 1, 2, 3 last season) would suggest otherwise.

Managed to more than match them, stepped up to the mark, pressed, harried and outplayed.

Didn't cope to well when lesser teams applied the same to us though.
Wolves, villa, blackpool, west ham, west brom etc all rattled us.

Need to get back to taking teams apart that try to outplay us week in week out and not just the " bigger games".
Composure to soak up pressure and then start bossing play again.

[John C]

I don't think we can comment on what he said to be honest until the end of the season. This rebuilt squad and incisive management team may well take us to the top 4 in a stroll. Its far to early to judge. If we finish fifth we'll all say fair enough, but if we finish fourth or higher we'll ask why the fuck we doubted we could.

[redway101]

Anyone who's slagging off Roy Evans, a man who served our club for over 30 years and is as legendary a Red in his own way as Kenny, really needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Agreed he's offering a perfectly realistic view of where we are.

As much as we like to say 'We are Liverpool', we're a club that hasn't won it's own domestic league in over 20 years, hasn't won a trophy of any kind in 5 years and haven't even been in the champions league for 2 years. We're not shopping at the absolute top table of available talent. We've gone out and bought either young and promising or fairly solid looking players who will improve the squad. In truth the purchase of players like Adam and Downing are exactly the sort of players you'd envisage a 6th placed side buying to try and build a challenge. In previous years Aston Villa under O'neill would have definitely been in for them (and in Downings case were).

If we play some good football next year as we've started to do under Kenny, get in the mix with the top four and manage to land 4th, it will have been a very successful season.

[bigbear]

Why do people think that Kenny is somehow the messiah, even he knows that for us to be as successful as he was for this club we need a few players like him in the team, theres only so much you can do from the sidelines. He will do well but we need perspective.

There's not many sides that have had a "few players like him in them" but Suarez and Gerrard are both top class.

Which sides in this country have got these superstar players in them ?

[Torpedo Tommy]

Why do people think that Kenny is somehow the messiah, even he knows that for us to be as successful as he was for this club we need a few players like him in the team, theres only so much you can do from the sidelines. He will do well but we need perspective.

I don't think Kenny is the Messiah Mikke.....

.......I know he is mate!

[Manav]

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

"Behold his mother!"

[Golyo]

Hmmm 'short of a bit of class against the better teams'.

Our results against Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City (placed 1, 2, 3 last season) would suggest otherwise.

And now we added some extra set pieces and crossed chances with a specialist header forward already in the squad. These purchases were meant to defeat the lower half of the table. It is going to be a very long month indeed.

[bigbear]

And now we added some extra set pieces and crossed chances with a specialist header forward already in the squad. These purchases were meant to defeat the lower half of the table. It is going to be a very long month indeed.

Very good point.

Bus parking at Anfield may not be so easy with Carroll getting fed from Downing and/or Adam.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Agreed he's offering a perfectly realistic view of where we are.

As much as we like to say 'We are Liverpool', we're a club that hasn't won it's own domestic league in over 20 years, hasn't won a trophy of any kind in 5 years and haven't even been in the champions league for 2 years. We're not shopping at the absolute top table of available talent. We've gone out and bought either young and promising or fairly solid looking players who will improve the squad. In truth the purchase of players like Adam and Downing are exactly the sort of players you'd envisage a 6th placed side buying to try and build a challenge. In previous years Aston Villa under O'neill would have definitely been in for them (and in Downings case were).

If we play some good football next year as we've started to do under Kenny, get in the mix with the top four and manage to land 4th, it will have been a very successful season.

I like Roy Evans. Top bloke and had us playing some great football. Who knows, if he'd have been backed financially as Ged was he may have got us the title.

But to say we are so far behind 4th or 5th doesn't really hold any substance. It's a bit Roy Hodgson-ish for my liking.

No one wants false expectation dumped on the squad by saying we SHOULD win it but let's encourage the lads. Don't set goals but help them believe a bit

[bigbear]

I like Roy Evans. Top bloke and had us playing some great football. Who knows, if he'd have been backed financially as Ged was he may have got us the title.

But to say we are so far behind 4th or 5th doesn't really hold any substance. It's a bit Roy Hodgson-ish for my liking.

No one wants false expectation dumped on the squad by saying we SHOULD win it but let's encourage the lads. Don't set goals but help them believe a bit

Roy was well-backed, he just made some very poor signings. Babb/Scales/Collymore/McAteer/Berger were all big money for the day.

[SRAWL]

I don't think we are that far behind 4th as has been suggested, but I do think we are way off coming in the top 2 or 3 to be honest. I think the signings we have got in so far are a step in the right direction, but we need a few more quality additions to challenge the top 3. I don't like relying on good players leaving other teams to do well (as has been said in the first few posts of the thread) as I think we should be a good enough team to beat them with their best players. I don't think that the top 4/5 teams last year did particularly well, and I think that they might provide more of a challenge this year. I have read that Kenny is probably aiming for 1st, but I think 4th is more realistic atm. Would love to be proved wrong though.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Roy was well-backed, he just made some very poor signings. Babb/Scales/Collymore/McAteer/Berger were all big money for the day.

He flogged Collymore on.

Hyppia, Henchoz, Smicer, Heskey, Westerveld, Zeige, Babbel et al weren't freebies though.

Take your point about him being backed. Just don't think it was to the extent that Ged was though.

[Gnurglan]

Understand he wants to lower the expectations. Fair enough. Disagree with him though. It was the dreadful start last season which destroyed things for us. When Kenny came in, we played like a top four side. And on top of that we have spent 40M net, on priority players and Kenny has not yet been able to rely on Gerrard or Carroll. I believe we should be among the top four teams this coming season. Anything else would be a real disappointment.

[locultom]

What do you think Kenny's set as a target for the team?

I think he's told them that he thinks they can mount a title challenge. You've got to aim high and they know that they sustained title challenging form under him all the way till the last couple of games with a weaker squad and with some key injuries.

Obviously in public everyone will manage expectations and the target may change throughout the season. Kenny and Clarke will always have them focussing on the next game but they are winners who are used to competing at the top and I think ther's no way that they won't privately be pushiung for a title challenge.

I would be happy with steady and consistent progress, but as I say, you need to aim high and I think we will.

[El Diablos]

Quite right, and better then the bedroom drongos who know better tha Roy Evans CBE a dististinguished servant of our club.

I agree with you Xerxes. Roy Evans is a Liverpool legend and knows his football, i guess more than anyone on RAWK. Many have been mentioning how we're getting back to old ways, those ways include conducting your business in private, with respect and a bit of modesty. But back in the day, if some 19 year old told someone of Roy's stature to fuck off or call him a bellend, they'd get a clip around the ear at the very least. These boards need to show some decorum and some respect.

Back to Roy's point, i think it's all about managing expectations as well as the facts. His reference to Spurs was perhaps faulty in that he used the specific for the general, but you can see how his conversational speech appears flawed in print but that doesn't undermine his overall point.

We're buying players to address some of the key deficiencies in our squad. I trust Kenny to do that as he see fits even if the signings don't always stimulate the casual fan. I still think we're short of quality and know-how when it comes to comparing us to Man U and Chelsea, but we've made some good progress in the squad depth. Add that to the return of Gerrard, Carroll and Agger and i think we can certainly match Spurs for depth and quality as compared to last year.  With Kenny at the helm I think we're better than them.

But that still means that we need one of Man City or Arsenal to drop out of the fourth spot, which is a big big ask. Now i'm optimistic and think we have a chance to do that but it will need consistency from start to finish. The point Abrak made is one I agree with. If we significantly improve against the bottom and mid teams we could be in with a shout but we'll need a convergence of things in our favour. I think Roy knows this too, but he can speak for himself. Will Kenny be aiming for at least 4th? Absolutely. How will he get there? Play one game at a time and add up the points at the end of the season. It will help if the fans back the club from day one.

[Gobias Industries]

I was just thinking about our squad and how good it already looks with just a few signings, loanees returning and some of the young lads that are coming through. I'm going to make a list of our squad, but instead of just listing them I'll do it by position and put any player who can play that position under that heading (so most players will appear more than once)

GK - Reina, Gulasci, Hansen, Jones (Doni)

LB - Aurelio, Insua, Robinson, Flanagan, Johnson, Wilson

RB - Johnson, Kelly, Flanagan, Carragher, Wisdom, Degen

CB - Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos, Kelly, Wisdom, Wilson

D/CM - Gerrard, Lucas, Adam, Spearing, Poulsen, Coady, Aquilani, Meireles, Shelvey

RM/W - Kuyt, Henderson, Maxi, Downing, Suarez, Pacheco, Cole, El Zhar

LM/W - Maxi, Downing, Suarez, Pacheco, Cole, El Zhar

AM - Gerrard, Aquilani, Suarez, Maxi, Meireles, Pacheco, Shelvey, Cole, El Zhar

ST - Carroll, Kuyt, Suarez, N'Gog

* Player = Too young to play significant role YET
* Player = Club possibly looking to sell
* Player = Important first teamer now

I've done this based on my own thoughts and understanding of how the summer has gone so far. I have no proof that we are looking to sell Insua, I just think the club may be open to it. We'll see.

But from that you can see how much our depth has improved already, as long as we don't sell too many players. If we were to sell all the players underlined, we'd only be short at LB, which means we may go for a new left back (which we pretty much all hope will happen) or keep at least Insua out of him and Aurelio. Then again Aurelio would be hard to sell because of his injuries and is always great when fit.

[Terry de Niro]

And make no mistake, Kenny will be aiming for 1st.

Too fucking right he will.
He doesn't know any different way to think.
He's been a winner all his life and that will rub off on all the people who work around him.

[Elysian Fields]

    By Nick Rostron-Pike
    Thursday, July 7
    0 comments

John Barnes believes Liverpool’s summer spending spree could take them into the top four next season.

Anfield boss Kenny Dalglish has spent big on midfielders Jordan Henderson and Charlie Adam, and is also keen on Aston Villa’s £15m-rated winger Stewart Downing.

Added to the January arrivals of Luis Suarez and Andy Carroll, and the return to fitness of captain Steven Gerrard, it looks as though the Reds will have a formidable squad.
“I like Stewart Downing. Aston Villa struggled last year, but he was the shining light”John Barnes

And Barnes believes it could take them back into the Champions League.

He told the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast: “Of course they can get in the top four. They weren’t far away from it last season, and the strength in the squad now means they’ll be very competitive. They will definitely have a good chance of being in the top four. “

Former Anfield wide man Barnes has also backed the possible arrival of Downing from Villa, and believes the club’s owners should dig deep to land him.”

He added: “I like Stewart Downing. Aston Villa struggled last year, but he was the shining light. He scored goals, he created chances and he played with intensity and desire.

“He’s a creative player, an attacking player. Downing and Ashley Young were the two best players at Aston Villa last year.”

“If Liverpool can stretch a little bit further I would definitely go for Downing. “

[Diomedieocre]

Too fucking right he will.
He doesn't know any different way to think.
He's been a winner all his life and that will rub off on all the people who work around him.

Is right, i think to many people are scared of the others....im sure as shit Kenny wont be, he`ll be going into every game expecting us to get the win. His knowledge, belief and will to win instilled in his team.

[hide5seek]

Kenny has not come back to make up the managerial numbers he's come back to win.

[spinaltapped]

The thing is, we've gotten significantly stronger this window while most teams above us have either lost or will probably lose significant players. ManU has already lost three important vets, Arse may lose the two best players on their team, Man City is crippled if they lose Tevez, and Chelsea probably won't have as good of a year with an aging front line (espec. Drogba). We have lost PFK. We have the momentum and we're not having to fill gaping holes in our opening lineup. Even if those holes are filled by expensive wonder kids, that doesn't mean they're going to automaticly click or do well in a new league/new team.

I think we're much stronger than people give us credit for, even our fans underrate us. I think our team chemistry is incredible and I think we can continue our great form from January onward. It's not always the strongest on paper that wins. It's the team with the best direction and cohesion.

I don't think we'll win the league this season, but I think we'll be in the top 3. We're on the up! Come on and get happy.

[BEAST]

I like our chances of getting into the top 4 but it will be a battle.  There are openings though -  I really think Arsenal is ripe for the picking and possibly City if they have a Tevez blowup at the transfer deadline.

I don't think we have nearly enough to win the title.

[chuckberry]

We have spent about the same as United so we should have at least gained on the other top 4 clubs. Throughout England and Europe there is almost no one who has outspent Liverpool in this transfer window so far.

[Ken-Obi]

It's good that he's dumbing down the expectations this season as it can't get any lower already. I'm certain our boys are professional enough to rise above that and actually play a positive season. Fourth is achievable this season, with a League Cup or FA Cup being the bonus. A return to Europe will raise the confidence further.

[Abrak]

I like our chances of getting into the top 4 but it will be a battle.  There are openings though -  I really think Arsenal is ripe for the picking and possibly City if they have a Tevez blowup at the transfer deadline.

I don't think we have nearly enough to win the title.

Got to agree on the title. I think that anyone who has seen ManU signings and expects us to catch up 20 points on them is barking mad.

I think we need a bit of an implosion from one of the top 4 to get 4th but a mental breakdown by Wenger looks on the cards. I think the other potential surprise fuck up could be Chelsea. We all know that Villas Boas is a living genius but it is quite possible that he is not. And if he screws around with the OAPs at Chelsea there could be big trouble.

[Aristotle]

We have spent about the same as United so we should have at least gained on the other top 4 clubs. Throughout England and Europe there is almost no one who has outspent Liverpool in this transfer window so far.

Key phrase there. So far, meaning there's a lot left to go.

Also what you're saying is just plain wrong. Apart from all the "almost" deals out there. Arsenal could be getting upwards of 60m from the sales of Cesc and Nasri. City bid €35m for Sanchez and are after god knows who else. There's plenty of money being spent in Europe even though we haven't been outspent per se by many. We've spent (for the sake of argument figures in Euros) €15 on Henderson, €8m on Adam and assuming figures are correct €23m on Downing. Juventus around €50m. Malaga have spent around €40m. Real Madrid have already spent 55m, including 30 on a fucking fullback. Genoa of all teams spent nearly €40m as have Milan, Napoli at €58m are even the biggest spenders in Europe as of now. Bayern München have been active in the market, spending around €30m.

There's still 6 weeks left of the transfer window and there's plenty of deals yet to be made and even though we've spent considerably more than in previous season we're hardly blowing the rest of Europe out of the water.

[chuckberry]

Yeah thats true and good point - as you mentioned I did say so far and yes there is a lot to go. Its still very positive.

Key phrase there. So far, meaning there's a lot left to go.

Also what you're saying is just plain wrong. Apart from all the "almost" deals out there. Arsenal could be getting upwards of 60m from the sales of Cesc and Nasri. City bid €35m for Sanchez and are after god knows who else. There's plenty of money being spent in Europe even though we haven't been outspent per se by many. We've spent (for the sake of argument figures in Euros) €15 on Henderson, €8m on Adam and assuming figures are correct €23m on Downing. Juventus around €50m. Malaga have spent around €40m. Real Madrid have already spent 55m, including 30 on a fucking fullback. Genoa of all teams spent nearly €40m as have Milan, Napoli at €58m are even the biggest spenders in Europe as of now. Bayern München have been active in the market, spending around €30m.

There's still 6 weeks left of the transfer window and there's plenty of deals yet to be made and even though we've spent considerably more than in previous season we're hardly blowing the rest of Europe out of the water.

[Alonso_The_Assassin]

Hmmm 'short of a bit of class against the better teams'.

Our results against Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City (placed 1, 2, 3 last season) would suggest otherwise.

They have been for a number of years now. It's the 'lessor' teams we've traditionally struggled with in the more recent times. Let's hope Kenny can change this. I'm confident he will.

[DanA]

We're only really half way through the transfer window and it looks like we have Downing & Doni in addition to Henderson and Adam. I think things are starting to look really positive.

[i_wun_bite]

And which is a more accurate gauge. How we played for the entire season or how we played under  Kenny?

Had we played the entire season like we did under Kenny we'd have been in a race for the title. For what it's worth I don't think we're quite there but I think we're right there as far as top four are concerned which is where I disagree with the OP and your post.

Yeah we finished 6th...after our worst start to a season for 57 years!

What's giving me such belief is not just the improvement and togetherness under Kenny but the way we comprehensively beat United, City and Chelsea in the second half of the season. I'm extremely confident we will get top 4 because I believe we'll actually be pushing much harder than that. No Europe to sidetrack us either.

We'll see, one game at a time, and hopefully we will get into the CL next year. I'm setting my expectations for at least a 4th placing, coz I don't see us overtaking Mancs and Chelsea, and the FA cup. More of a straight fight for 4 with Gooners and Tottenham. The transfer season is still early. We have seen ourselves getting in new solid guys but I'm sure the others will catch up soon with investments of their own, esp the top 3 of last season. Let's see how the transfer season finish before we come back onto the issue.

[Something Awful]

We have a better manager, coaching staff, and playing squad than last season. That's the basis of improvement.

[Danny_]

I don't know about others but I'm quite happy for everybody to write us off before the season starts.  I'm not worried about the players believing in themselves.  Kenny will get them to do that.  If we are the underdogs, then I'll take that over stupid expectations.

[Fromozbleau]

As the team stands we have depth we've not had for years. Once some of the players move on who are unlikely to make a contribution (Cole, Ngog, Poulsen, Degen), then the squad will look mighty, not because of individual brilliance, but because of balance. I'm sure that's the coaching team's biggest contribution. Players who the coaches can work with. Better to get 100% out of very good players who suit the style of play and the positions they are picked for, than wonder if several brilliant players will manage to play together, or even show spirit as a team (ie, the reason why Man City may not make it). I'm occasionally dubious about the choice of Henderson, Downing, Adam even Carroll, because individually they may not be the best. But, I reckon they will work well as part of a tight unit.

This is a squad which will adapt to injuries and fatigue especially in midfield. There are plenty of goals from forwards and midfielders. The defense may not look brilliant, but did well 2nd half of last season even with the number of injuries sustained.

And it's a squad that will be invigorated by youth challenging and learning. Look at Kelly, Flanagan, Spearing, Robinson's contribution last year under Kenny. Maybe this year we can add Coady, Sterling, Pacheco, Suso to the list of players aspiring and getting a taste of top flight football.

Style of play. Kenny did something extraordinary with this group this year. Pass and move football was exciting to watch all the time. Adding just Aquilani (if he stays) is already a mouthwatering prospect.

I doubt also that Kenny will be going for second prize. He and Clarke extracted a huge amount of committment and ability from a tired and injured squad last season. With a fit team, full of depth, a strong direction, they will challenge. Both coaches have a winning ethos with different clubs.

[Liverbird 2010]

Last season was just fuckin weird for every single team, no one deserved to win the league and Blackpool should have stayed up for attempting to play football, what happens this season is anyones guess, but one things for certain we wont be sitting 17th in the league with a clueless friggen owl telling us its acceptable for our football club to be in that position Kenny will be aiming to win the league its up to our players to believe that they can.  We can beat the best on our day, its the not so good teams that we struggle against maybe with the english additions this will change hopefully it will.  I cannot lie and say I am buzzing over our new players but the more I think about them makes me realise its not what I want its what the team needs, and they will love Kenny and hopefully will want to play their hearts out for him and the club and fight for their places everyone is not a guarenteed starter now the kids can come in and take your place a bit of competition never done anyone wrong.  For far to long far to many have just been turning up and not putting any effort in maybe they lack confidence, maybe some are just not good enough, maybe some are just here for a big fat wage without no effort of earning it.  These things needed to change I have 100% confidence in Kenny that he will try and right the wrongs of the past 2 seasons its now up to the players to do the same.

[Golyo]

Got to agree on the title. I think that anyone who has seen ManU signings and expects us to catch up 20 points on them is barking mad.

Anything can happen to a 20 year old keeper trying to adapt to a new league during a long season. It will be very different for him in so many ways. De Gea is a huge gamble.

[dobbouk]

I don't think you can look at last season to state how well we will do this season. Mainly because we're now a completely different team to the one from August to January last year. Different attitude, different state of mind, different tactics and a few new players