Topic: Roy Evans: 'Liverpool are a fair bit behind top four'

[Danyaals Kop]

We just need Mata.

[brussels sprout]

We are, but we also proved we can beat them. So fuck him.

He's forgot more about football than you'll ever know, disagree, but show the man some fucking respect.

[Mr_Morosoph]

A lost game against Spurs with a half of the first team players injured and a dogdy penalty clearly indicates that we are way behind, what a bellend 

Disagree with him all you want but Roy Evans is no bellend.

[bldwalsh]

We  don't need to worry about anyone else. Constant, steady improvement is what counts.

Thats right.  Myself i think we'll get top 5.  I'm not convinced arsenal will be as bad as people think and city will only get stronger.  But if we just take one game as it comes just worry about winning our now games.

[Grobbelrevell]

Some people are expecting instant success and I'm sorry folks but it ain't gonna happen!

In fairness, I said the same when Rafa arrived in 2004.

[CallumLFC]

Ok, let me not break out lineups and bench lists, but I will say that both points you made are a bit over the top pessimistic.
We have a world class goalkeeper, very solid defence, excellent midfield and finally some potency in attack and some squad depth.
We have gamechanging players in Gerrard, Suarez, Meireles, Adam. We've bought quality players, Kenny's first choices for numerous positions.

And you're being over the top optimistic 

I don't see our side in that regard personally. Though i do agree with you about the mental make-up of our squad. Kenny has improved that greatly.

[Haemoglobin]

Yeah, nothing really to blast uncle Roy for here, don't be silly now you touchy buggers. 

I myself reckon that despite being well able to crush the lot of them on our day, at present we're quite a way behind manyoo and chelsea over the full course of a season. Manchester City are still mid-metamorphosis, and could really go either way; cash-flashing also-rans (a sort of coked-up Spurs), or the new dominant force in British football over this decade and perhaps far beyond (shudder). Money will buy them a plum seat at the high table, get them well known throughout the world, then if they do the things chelsea have done right and avoid Abromovich's mistakes, they really could crush all before them. Truly nightmarish. I can only hope they persist with 'mercurial' liabilities such as Balotelli.

Us, arsenal and spurs at the moment are much of a muchness - if anything we edge it by having got right back up there after two pretty disastrous consecutive seasons for the most part. We're riding a tailwind now, whereas the both of them are currently being disgracefully undermined by bigger, richer clubs, which would appear to be causing some genuine unrest among their more important players and fanbase. The spurs bubble might well have already burst; arsenal continue each and every season to make a real push and then inexplicably fade; we've been dragging a ball & chain and still been a match for them all, just not so much the sides we should beat with ease. What we do against sunderland, wolves, bolton et al will determine our level of progress.

With our squad as it is right now, barring many injuries, picking up from where The King's Men left off the end of last term, a whole season unbeaten at Anfield looks a decent enough possibility. Some cheekily nicked away wins, honours-even with a few of the bigger guns on their turf, the odd customary 'WE'RE BAA-AACK!!' schooling in front of the Kop (only this time no false dawns), maybe even a run-in capitulation from a mutinous citeh ... I personally can see us finishing 3rd if the red machine gets rolling early, and keeps going.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Holy fuck, some of the 'fans' that frequent here frighten me. Calling Roy Evans a bellend and all sorts, get your fucking priorities sorted.

The guy is being a realist, there's nothing to suggest we are going to fucking storm the league next season, as far as I'm concerned we are 6th best until we prove otherwise ON THE PITCH, not on paper or past merit.

[soberphobia]

He makes solid points. For me the most exciting thing for us is the structure of the club is now right. We are no longer looking to sign "saviour" players but players to fit into the squad. Our youth setup is the best it has ever been and looking better all the time. Where we finish next season if its 3rd 4th 5th whatever isn't really the big picture its more about how much better we are as a club to set ourselves for a sustained period of success.

[samlfc]

In my view the key will be this.

What actually tells us that we are not as good as the top 4 is our performance against the bottom 6 teams. We lost more points here than the top 4 clubs put together. The reason it shows we are not as good is that the top 4 teams are simply slotting these sides away some with an average goal difference of over 2 goals. They are simply too good not to beat these sides and often beat them quite easily 90% of the time.

Now we look at our performance against the top 4 and we say we look pretty much as good as them on performance. But you know we scored a double against Chelsea it doesnt make us better than them - we had a couple of good games they might have been a bit off. In fact against the top 4 teams we can expect to be a few wins, a few losses and a few draws. But where they are showing their 'class' or 'depth' is that they are not really ever bad enough to lose to the bottom teams except very occasionally. Last year we lost to them, we deserved to lose in many cases and we created very few chances.

Now hopefully this is the big difference our summer signings are going to make. It isnt going to mean we beat Man U at Old Trafford but we are signing 'chance creators' and creating a team with more depth. We almost saw it for a period towards the end of last season, when we were turning up to matches and us winning never looked in doubt. So hopefully that is what we will have next season greater consistency.

Last season we dropped 21 points against the bottom six clubs in the league. Arsenal dropped just 4. A difference of 17 points. And they beat us by 10!!

Totally agree

[brussels sprout]

A lost game against Spurs with a half of the first team players injured and a dogdy penalty clearly indicates that we are way behind, what a bellend 

Unfuckingbelievable. Thus is Roy Evans you're talking about gobshite

[SteveGerrardFan01]

We are, but we also proved we can beat them. So fuck him.

Yeah screw this shite, I don't care how many big game changers the other teams have, we can win and have proven that, we've got more and more players coming back/in (Aquilani, Henderson, Adam, Downing) and players coming back fully fit (Agger, Carroll, Gerrard). No question that we can win a lot.

[DonkeyWan]

I think some people need to be a bit more realistic here. We finished outside the top 4 two years running, in a position normally occupied by Villa. Our ranks are chock full of mediocrity still (Soto, Cole, Poulsen etc.) our squad is still far too elderly (Carragher, Cole, Gerrard, Poulsen, Soto, Maxi etc), while we have spent money this window (about 40 million net so far), so too have  United and you can be assured Man City and Chelsea will do the same. That probably means those top three finishers will stay ahead of the chasing pack next season too. So, the teams we will be competing with for 4th are Arsenal, Spurs and possibly Everton.

Now, thankfully Everton appear to be broke, so perhaps they aren't the danger they were last season. But with Spurs and Arsenal (both of whom have spent this window) what you are basically hoping is their standards will decline, not that we will bridge the gap. We need Arsenal to sell fabregas and Spurs to sell Modric. That show how far off the standard we are. And there is no point saying "if only this this or this had happened last season we would have..." because I'm sure there are Arsenal and Spurs fans saying the exact same thing. End of the day, the table don't lie and pointing to pivotal moments in the calendar as proof that we could have achieved if only is a complete red herring.

[♠Dirty Harry♠]

Yeah screw this shite, I don't care how many big game changers the other teams have, we can win and have proven that, we've got more and more players coming back/in (Aquilani, Henderson, Adam, Downing) and players coming back fully fit (Agger, Carroll, Gerrard). No question that we can win a lot.

Posts firsts, thinks later, if at all.

[fowler9_god]

Anyone calling him a bellend and asking Evans to "fuck off" can do one.

We are behind Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. We will need to do something really well next season to break into the top four.

[Haemoglobin]

Can't help but think those dissing Roy here never got to truly appreciate the Evans era. Fucking awesome attacking force that, Macca & God in their prime.
You could argue we've been in a similar position recently to when Roy first took the reins. Julian Dicks.

[caze]

Don't think he's right at all really, the fact that we were still in with a slim-chance of CL football with a few matches to go after the disastrous start we had shows how much progress we've made, and also shows that we already had a pretty decent team. We've clearly strengthened the squad a good deal already, and there's probably a couple more comings and goings which will improve things further. He said that we were some way off the top 4 or 5 clubs, I don't buy that at all. I'd be very surprised if Spurs finished above us, and Arsenal are going to have a tough time unless they can make some good signings in addition to not loosing two of their key players (at least one of which will almost certainly leave). City still haven't shown any sort of consistency since the takeover, they've improved obviously, but haven't been able to build a proper, integrated team with all their expensive players, they could well consolidate their position, but there's no guarantees. Even United, despite winning the title, are coming off the back of a very mediocre season performance-wise. I can see the coming season being very competitive, and we've as much a chance as anyone of securing CL football.

[kasperoff]

Do you think that they say this just to manage expectations and take some pressure off the team

Ding!

[Classic goal]

not much wrong in what he says, getting into the top four will be difficult. It's all well and good thinking we can do it, we have to go and and prove it. There are people out there who think we will be challenging for the league next year and if we don't no doubt they'll be be kicking off and trying to rock the boat. There's nothing wrong with publicly lowering expectations. Kenny will have the players focussed. It's the fans that need to get a grip so we don't end up in situations like booing the team off against west ham when we had just gone top of the league.

And there's no need to call Evans names. The man has given most of his life to the club.

[kasperoff]

Lets ease off the Evans sledging. He's a gentlemen of the game and has won trophy's for this club. I've had the pleasure of meeting him and can tell you he is top man.

I don't agree with him here, but can see how many would. However I think its all mind games anyway. No harm in playing down our chances.

[DanA]

Last year against Tottenham we had a lame Carroll, an inexperienced Flanagan at right back (who gave away a phantom penalty) and were forced to play a two man midfield of Lucas & Spearing. We were fucked from the get go and no surprise that Sandro, VDV and in particular Modric tore us a new one. Using that as any indication of how we will preform next season beggars belief.

Now i'm not suggesting we are gonna win the title or we're suddenly world beaters but don't throw out bullshit statements using that game as an indication of anything. The difference between what we put out against Tottenham and what we have available now is chalk and cheese. Add a fit Gerrard & Meireles along with Downing, Aquilani, Adam & Henderson and it changes the complexion of the game completely.  Are we really going to get overrun in the middle like we did that game? Are we limited to two fit central midfielder neither of which offer much of a creative spark? I'd say no.

Reason why we will do better and challenge for top four:
- No Roy headstart
- No Roy Hodgson signings (Meireles possibly excluded)
- 2 players coming off Copa America vs 17! off the world cup
- A possibly fit Steven Gerrard
- A full season of Luis Suarez & Andy Carroll
- Strengthened left side (Downing & new left back)
- Midfield depth (Adam, Henderson & Aquilani)
- Our academy players are a year older (if even needed)
- 6 months practicing Kenny & Clarkes tactics
- A genuine positive feel at the club

Why we won't do better and challenge for top 4:
- Roy Evans said so
- Tottenham game last year 
- Lost a striker who was injury riddled and struggling with motivation (Torres)

[Em5y]

There is an obvious way of deciding how far we are behind the top four - it's called the league table.

[caze]

There is an obvious way of deciding how far we are behind the top four - it's called the league table.

You've got the league table for the end of next season! Give us a look...

[scatman]

I think he's wrong.

He forgets that half of our season last year was affected by an idiot and his idiotic signings.

Going on form under Kenny we'd have finished 3rd. We had good players who were and still are an able match for the top4

[Elysian Fields]

I myself reckon that despite being well able to crush the lot of them on our day, at present we're quite a way behind manyoo and chelsea over the full course of a season. Manchester City are still mid-metamorphosis, and could really go either way; cash-flashing also-rans (a sort of coked-up Spurs), or the new dominant force in British football over this decade and perhaps far beyond (shudder). Money will buy them a plum seat at the high table, get them well known throughout the world, then if they do the things chelsea have done right and avoid Abromovich's mistakes, they really could crush all before them. Truly nightmarish. I can only hope they persist with 'mercurial' liabilities such as Balotelli.

Mancini really is a shit a manager though, and a team of mercenaries that don't really gel. Even with Chelsea's wealth, they never got it together in the Champions League, so you're probably right in saying that they will be there or thereabouts but for me, something's missing at City which the moneymen there don't seem to be able to understand or pinpoint.

[i_wun_bite]

we finished 6th, regardless of who took the first half of the season. The table doesn't lie. Are we off the top 4 teams, yeah. Some of us really got to stop living in lala land. At this point, it's a fact we are worse off than the top 5 based on league results. Are we better or will we be better? Let's talk at the end of the coming season.

[drpepe]

we finished 6th, regardless of who took the first half of the season. The table doesn't lie. Are we off the top 4 teams, yeah. Some of us really got to stop living in lala land. At this point, it's a fact we are worse off than the top 5 based on league results. Are we better or will we be better? Let's talk at the end of the coming season.

kind of agree , but our improvement was so drastic that the table for 10/11 does lie (a bit)

http://footballstats.metro.co.uk/metro/?Lang=0&CPID=4&CTID=11&TEID=228&pStr=League_Pos

[Heighwayondawing]

In football, it seems that financial clout is assumed, by most pundits and supporters, to mean on-pitch success. I think that's a very shortsighted viewpoint. Yes, you can afford the better players, but there is no man on Earth that can predict how a mix of players is going to get on, both on and off the pitch. You only need to have a look at all of the money that Real have spent to see that spending does not always equate to success. Or, you can have a look at how our squad played during that Gerrardless period toward the end of last season. On paper, a midfield of Spearing and Lucas would have supporters of any club laughing at us and our own supporters bitching to the high heavens about not being good enough. Problem is, they went out and fucking bossed matches. My point is, Money is Nice, but it certainly does NOT guarantee success at the highest levels. LFC will make some noise this campaign and I truly believe that the Top 4 is our goal and that it can be achieved. Besides, what part of a rumored 80 million transfer kitty does not scream financial clout!?

[loveisreal]

the fact we've finished outside the top four two seasons on the bounce suggest he's right.  we'll know when we're one of the best four teams again when we finish in the top four.

[i_wun_bite]

kind of agree , but our improvement was so drastic that the table for 10/11 does lie (a bit)

http://footballstats.metro.co.uk/metro/?Lang=0&CPID=4&CTID=11&TEID=228&pStr=League_Pos

no doubt mate. no doubt. but honestly, i still see us behind the top four. one off matches, we could well perhaps beat them. Over the course of the season, we have been consistently inconsistent, and it has plague us for many many seasons, even during the Roy Evan years.

[larrylimestreet]

A Liverpool man nearly his whole working life and people on here start name-calling.

Short memories. Always speaks sense on the Chanel.

Just a general thought from him, no biggie.

Whatever age he is he should be at the club for thoughts and experience alone.

Would have had him back before Hodgson by a million miles.

Keep giving an opinion Roy, its what its about.

Red-Till-Dead

[DanA]

the fact we've finished outside the top four two seasons on the bounce suggest he's right.  we'll know when we're one of the best four teams again when we finish in the top four.

But nobody's talking about what we have achieved it is all about what we will achieve.

we finished 6th, regardless of who took the first half of the season. The table doesn't lie. Are we off the top 4 teams, yeah. Some of us really got to stop living in lala land. At this point, it's a fact we are worse off than the top 5 based on league results. Are we better or will we be better? Let's talk at the end of the coming season.

Again nobody is talking about last year here. We are talking about the 11/12 season and we are currently joint top of the table on 0 wins 0 draws and 0 losses. It's pretty obvious that when you clicked on this thread that's what the topic of discussion would be. Trying to predict the future isn't an exact science but it's hardly lala land.

[drpepe]

.... we are currently joint top of the table on 0 wins 0 draws and 0 losses.

  i like that.


  but we're also mired in a relegation battle on 0 points..... and in mid-table obscurity on 0... 

[hide5seek]

Its not just  who you buy its also how you coach and implement different systems for different oppositions. We will challenge under Kenny and we will challenge this coming season.

Kenny hasn't come back to make up the managerial numbers he's come back to win, wish people would get it into their heads.

[SmithdownAndy]

He's only stating as fact what has happened over the last 2 seasons, we have been off the top 4.

There will be no one happier to eat his own words than Roy himself, if we do get back in the mix. The man's a legend and a red through and through, and those calling him names seriously need to go and have a word with themselves, or fuck off and support another club.

[fowlermagic]

We are, but we also proved we can beat them. So fuck him.

Lovely.....Roy has probably served the club since the day your Dad was a glint in your grandfathers eye so behave.

On our day we can beat anyone but for a couple of seasons now we have struggled to finish in the top 6, typically finished 20 plus points behind the eventual champs and are a long way behind the likes of Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc in terms of having a concrete football structure here. Kenny is the man for the job but he just started his stewardship here as manager so yes a title charge may be years away and a top 4 finsih is tougher than ever. Roy has more knowledge / experience of the game & LFC than ANYONE here on the forum so respect his opinion but I also think he believes Kenny will get us back to where we belong.

[boots]

In football, it seems that financial clout is assumed, by most pundits and supporters, to mean on-pitch success. I think that's a very shortsighted viewpoint. Yes, you can afford the better players, but there is no man on Earth that can predict how a mix of players is going to get on, both on and off the pitch. You only need to have a look at all of the money that Real have spent to see that spending does not always equate to success. Or, you can have a look at how our squad played during that Gerrardless period toward the end of last season. On paper, a midfield of Spearing and Lucas would have supporters of any club laughing at us and our own supporters bitching to the high heavens about not being good enough. Problem is, they went out and fucking bossed matches. My point is, Money is Nice, but it certainly does NOT guarantee success at the highest levels. LFC will make some noise this campaign and I truly believe that the Top 4 is our goal and that it can be achieved. Besides, what part of a rumored 80 million transfer kitty does not scream financial clout!?

Good post. Chelsea to some extent proved that money can buy a fair amount of success. However Sheik whatshisface has spent about a billion to buy man city and lots of players? And only won an FA Cup for his troubles. But payed for a mediocre manager. Say what you will about maureen but he was/is a good manager. Money AND good management (from top to bottom) wins trophies. Money on its own cant, but i reckon good management can be successful on its own with only reasonable finance. Money buys the players, but good management knows which ones to buy, how to play them, and how to get the best of them as a group.

[MikkeB]

Roy talks absolute sense. We all know it. I think next season with our current players we'll get fifth. Spurs will buy to maintain thier success of last season, they did well in the CL and will dogfight to get it again, arsenal will be stronger, regardless of what people say rumours etc... Man city, man u, Chelsea are dead cerys,  we've slipped down the pecking order. Yeah it hurts. We all know we need absolute quality to take us that step further. I think we're doing ourselves no harm buying a player as good as tevez for example, for full wack. If we're not being sensible with our current purchases why get cautious now? A player like this pretty much puts away most chances he gets, we need game changing winners.

[i_wun_bite]

But nobody's talking about what we have achieved it is all about what we will achieve.

Again nobody is talking about last year here. We are talking about the 11/12 season and we are currently joint top of the table on 0 wins 0 draws and 0 losses. It's pretty obvious that when you clicked on this thread that's what the topic of discussion would be. Trying to predict the future isn't an exact science but it's hardly lala land.

yeah. join bottom. oooooohhhh nooooo relegation fight. of course we are talking about 11/12 season, and what are you using to gauge the up and coming season? well, how we performed last year would be a starting point. how much have we improved compared to last year is anyone's guess. Will we be better? We hope and on paper it should. After we finished 2nd, we looked set to again challenge for honors but failed.

like u mentioned, not exact science but yes it's lala land if anyone is seriously expecting us to challenge for the title. to be honest, the top 4 have a closer chance and likelihood for fighting for the title than us.

  i like that.


  but we're also mired in a relegation battle on 0 points..... and in mid-table obscurity on 0... 

[MikkeB]

Also to add anyone who's played for a team sport whether professionally or semi pro knows the difference of having a talented player, or the luxury of more talented players in your team. Many moons ago, I always got my confidence knowing what I was good at and focussed on that, but there were times during games where we relied on magic because we were deadlocked, and during those moments even if you're playing on andrenalin, most players dont have the inner confidence to experiment in game situations, and more often than the best individuals in our team supported us, coming up with something. Confidence in the dressing room comes from the knowledge that you have a team that can support where you're weakest. It's the same for every sport, plays and tactics only get you so far.